Who says that you can't shoot lead from a Glock

[Centaur 1]

I've built up to today with several trips to the range where I only shot a few rounds, then inspected the barrel for lead. I haven't seen any lead so I shot 100 rounds today. The barrel was spotless to the naked eye and when I forced a very tight patch through the barrel it came out very clean. My boolit is the Ranch Dog TL358-100-RF, sized to .356" and lubed with recluse 45/45/10. My load is 5 grains of Unique and o.a.l. is an even 1.00". In the last pic you can see a few small smears of lead, but I think that it might be there because I never cleaned the copper from the barrel. I'm pretty happy that I don't have to buy bullets just to shoot this one gun.

http://i282.photobucket.com/albums/kk248/mlschmall/IMG_04832.jpg

http://i282.photobucket.com/albums/kk248/mlschmall/IMG_04872.jpg

http://i282.photobucket.com/albums/kk248/mlschmall/IMG_04892.jpg

[HammerMTB]

Don't believe 'em. I have a couple Glocks and they shoot lead from their stock bbls just fine. The caster needs to do their part to keep the lead out, but if you do, polygonal rifling is NOT a problem.
Good fer you!

[ColColt]

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?t=33855

I have two Glocks and don't intend on shooting lead through them...personally.

[35remington]

Congrats......you are now of the same mind as most of the guys on this board who have actually tried it.

[milprileb]

While I believe you can do this and only if you properly clean lead out with a Lewis Lead Remover or some other aggressive method, I respectfully submit running a patch thru a bore and assuming you got no deposits is flawed. If there is lead, its there and in a layer a patch is not going to pull off the metal.

I think shooting lead in poly barrel is working the margins and the better solution is buy a replacement barrel and not take the risk. However that approach most likely will get zero attention by those lucky so far in shooting lead in poly barrels.

If you going to do it, aggressively take out the lead. A barrel that fails is alike a parachute: the failure is usually BIG and NASTY.

I learned long ago: LUCK IS NOT A PLAN. Thus if you are lucky shooting lead in a poly barrel, its not a good plan. One can do a lot of things in shooting
but there are somethings that ought not to be done. You only get away with it till you don't get away with it.

[Bwana]

Centaur 1, good for you. As one who regularly shoots cast booilts in my Glock bbls I'm glad you found out yourself and didn't listen to those who don't know and won't know because they are unable to think for themselves.
I have always said that I'd rather be lucky than good any day. Then again having done something over 50,000 times over a period of 11 years says it may not be luck after all.

[Ausglock]

G'day All.
Here in Australia, We mostly shoot coated lead projectiles through handguns.
I'm running cast bullets through a G34, G35, Kimber 38 Super and S&W 586.

The G34 has the std Glock barrel as well as a Stormlake barrel. no leading with either barrel.

The G35 has the STD 40 barrel and a HPB (Lissner) 357Sig barrel. Both of these barrels shoot cast/lubed bullets again with no issues. The 40 barrel actually shoots the Lee 401-175-FP bullet with better accuracy than with Berry's plated bullets.

[Jailer]

Nice work. I'm going to be trying some cast in my 26 here soon. My MP molds 359-125 mold gives me plenty of options in boolit size so I'm hoping I find something that works well in it.

I didn't have much luck with my stock 21 barrel so I got a KKM barrel for it that I am very happy with. I've since acquired a couple of new molds and I am going to re visit the stock barrel and cast boolits soon.

So many projects, so little time.........

[Sprue]

While I believe you can do this and only if you properly clean lead out with a Lewis Lead Remover or some other aggressive method, I respectfully submit running a patch thru a bore and assuming you got no deposits is flawed. If there is lead, its there and in a layer a patch is not going to pull off the metal.

I think shooting lead in poly barrel is working the margins and the better solution is buy a replacement barrel and not take the risk. However that approach most likely will get zero attention by those lucky so far in shooting lead in poly barrels.

If you going to do it, aggressively take out the lead. A barrel that fails is alike a parachute: the failure is usually BIG and NASTY.

I learned long ago: LUCK IS NOT A PLAN. Thus if you are lucky shooting lead in a poly barrel, its not a good plan. One can do a lot of things in shooting
but there are somethings that ought not to be done. You only get away with it till you don't get away with it.



I too have a Glock but I won't be shooting lead thru it. I've read enuff about this subject, and I'm comfortable with my own decisions.

I only shoot Pistols/ Revolvers with scopes so I see no real need in casting for Glocks. I have various fun shooters to choose from.

We all can make our own decisions Yea or Nea about this, what ever you're comfortable with... have fun chasing brass.

I'm not out to prove anything, Scoot over milprileb, I'm ride'n with you.


Best of Wishes & Luck

[NickSS]

I have a glock 17 and a Baby Desert Eagle and they both have polygonal rifling. I shoot cast from both and have had no issues with leading in the last 10 years since I started shooting them.

[Springfield]

Maybe mine are just different but that doesn't look like a polygonal barrel, plus I can see lead smears on it. Might want to try a chore boy pad or a lewis lead remover to get that barrel really clean. Or a Foul-out unit. Never had any trouble with the poly barrels in my Jericho.

[TCLouis]

From what I see in the picture (Lands and Grooves) I don't think his is a Glock barrel . . .

at least not the polygonal rifled barrels that they warn about using lead.

[Jailer]

From what I see in the picture (Lands and Grooves) I don't think his is a Glock barrel . . .

at least not the polygonal rifled barrels that they warn about using lead.

It's a Glock barrel, trust me.

The rifling isn't shaped like a "polygon", more so like a speed bump. The lands are a smooth rounded over protrusion if that makes any sense.

[milprileb]

For those whose minds are made up on this subject, so be it.

I only note this: When I was on MFF status and packing my own square parachute, the rigger check personnel would shake their heads and say: its not a great pack job but its not out of bounds either so if you want to jump it and you packed it, happy landings. Yeah, it was a imperfect pack but it grabbed air slowly for a softer opening and I always pulled 300 ft early so it all came out in the wash.

That said: If you control the margins then you take your calculated risks and off you go.

Same is here with lead in poly barrels: you got to control the margins if you do it but you better know what you are doing.

Only difference was: I always had a reserve chute and the barrel you have has no back up system for running out of luck.

So, if luck is your only plan, then you got drama if you RUN OUT OF LUCK

Be safe.

PS. I had shot over 800 rds of lead bullets in my HK USP 45 until I heard about lead in poly barrels: This had me blinking
and I figured I had pushed my luck a bit. I am not real proud of not knowing about this issue with HK pistols.

[prs]

I decided to accept the risk and make my Glock 23 a regular shooter instead of a dresser drawer resident. I cast Lee TL 401-175-SW with a lead, antimony, tin alloy air dropped at about 11 or 12 hardness, I tumble lubed with the touted LLA + JPW mix and let it cure well. I loaded up a batch of relatively light charged rounds that cycled the action well. Over the past several weeks I've shot several thousand of those and the only rounds that gave me any leading were some I cast of a softer alloy just to see. Cleaning after every 100 rounds with soaked bronze brush and tight patches with Shooter's Choice (will be going to Ed's Red soon). I was gonna buy an after market barrel if it showed a tendency to lead, but why bother if stays this clean? I don't see how luck is involved in any greater degree than shooting other guns with carefully prepared reloads. I was never a very lucky person, except in love, and Vegas has no appeal to me.

prs

[MBTcustom]

Nobody says that that is an actual shooter. They would love for you to believe that their pistol is more than a pressure chamber with a twisty sort of pipe on the end but a gun is a gun and I haven't run into one yet that cant be loaded for. They put their britches on one leg at a time just like the rest of us.

[Doby45]

I also shoot lead through my stock G35 barrel to no ill effect. If there is nothing in the barrel then there simply is nothing in the barrel.

[stana]

I've shot alot of cast through 2 Glock 45"s, several 1000 each, with little leading and easy clean up. My G23 and 27 in .40 were a different matter, they leaded badly and quickly. I've heard the 9mm's aren't bad, but have no personal experence.

[22Short]

I notice a trend here. There are a lot of "I hear it will blow up after shooting lots of lead boolits" and then there is the " I shoot cast in my Glock with no problems" group. There is a very small group of " I shoot Glocks with properly made and sized cast and have problems just like the factory rep says"... Oh wait! No there isn't!


As for me, I shoot cast in my Glock 21SF. Hot loads. A lot. And no problem at all. Good tool, the Glock 21. Easy to load for. I like the 200 gr. Lee SWC. in mine, wheel weight lead sized .452. 6.3 gr. of 231 and Winchester primers. No problem for my gun, but start lower!

[milprileb]

We all know the manufacturers that say reloads fired in their weapons will violate warranty is pure BS. The lawyers make them do that as law suits are prevented.

However, GLock and H&K are not about to isolate lead bullets as a safety issue unless there is a safety issue.

Now can you mitigate the risk of that safety issue ?

Do you know how ? Running a patch down the bore is NOT a preventative measure and won't hack it for reducing lead build up.

I hope some of you with no idea of what you are doing are not hurt.

[Bwana]

"I hope some of you with no idea of what you are doing are not hurt. "

What an odd thing to say. Are you meaning to say that you wish harm upon the rest of "those" people? Who are these people? Seems that everyone who posted about using lead boolits in their Glocks knows what they are about. I think I see some level of "self projection" going on.
Since you seem to hold yourself out as an expert on the subject why don't you give some technical and personal testimony about the subject. Or you can let those of us who actually have said testimony expound of the subject and let those who wish to learn, do so.

[dudel]

As to "who" said it, I believe it was Glock (in their manual).

What you can do and what you should do are sometime different.

You may choose to; but I choose not to. I save enough casting, that I don't mind paying for the plated rounds for the plated rounds that go through the glock barrels. That's just me. I also have a LoneWolf barrel I use for boolits in the glocks. Cheap enough insurance.

Way back when, I did try some lead through the G17. It leaded badly in my case. Not interested in working up special alloys, sizing, lubes, etc just to shoot boolits in the glock. It was just easier for me to get an aftermarket barrel.

[Wayne Smith]

Would somebody please, in specific terms and specific results, please explain just what this hypothetical "risk" is? I have only heard vague and non-specific statements with no actual explanation.

[Doby45]

The "risk" is that the barrel will lead up like a sewer pipe and the user will be unawares and then finally the pressure will build to the point that a small thermonuclear explosion will happen and you will lose your face and pinkie finger on your shooting hand.

[Doby45]

I hope some of you with no idea of what you are doing are not hurt.

I find your comment to be extremely insulting and it would appear that those of us that are able to shoot properly prepared lead boolits in our stock barrels know more than you are trying to project that you know.

Shooting lead through a stock Glock barrel is evidently not for you, so instead of actually figuring something out and being successful with this combination, you can stay behind your mother's apron strings and tell all those that pass by your scary tales.

[Dframe]

Would somebody please, in specific terms and specific results, please explain just what this hypothetical "risk" is? I have only heard vague and non-specific statements with no actual explanation.

You are right Wayne. I never hear specifics. Only vague references to polygonal rifling not being compatable with lead. That one is a crock by the way.
Full disclosure here. I've fired thousands of lead bullets through a model 23 glock with no problems OR leading whatsoever.

[Jailer]

Well I revisited the stock 21 barrel today. By no means a long term test but I ran 3 magazines (39 rounds) through it with zero leading.

MP molds 452-200 HP's as cast (.453)
4.8 gr W231
conventional lube
.471 taper crimp

It can be done, it sometimes just takes a little more time and experimentation to find what works.

[Wayne Smith]

You are right Wayne. I never hear specifics. Only vague references to polygonal rifling not being compatable with lead. That one is a crock by the way.
Full disclosure here. I've fired thousands of lead bullets through a model 23 glock with no problems OR leading whatsoever.

Full disclosure: The original accuracy work was done by a Brit named Whitworth in the 1840's-1850's. He decided that the most accurate barrel was an polygonal rifling and used a polygonal bullet - you can buy them now from Uberti - rifle and mold. Lead bullets then, they still work. Confederate sharpshooters used his rifle in the Civil War. I don't think the physics have change since then.

[Ausglock]

I find your comment to be extremely insulting and it would appear that those of us that are able to shoot properly prepared lead boolits in our stock barrels know more than you are trying to project that you know.

Shooting lead through a stock Glock barrel is evidently not for you, so instead of actually figuring something out and being successful with this combination, you can stay behind your mother's apron strings and tell all those that pass by your scary tales.

Well Said, Doby45.
I and nearly every handgun shooter here in Australia shoots conventional lubed cast lead or coated cast lead projectiles.

Jacketed and plated projectiles are far too expensive here for everyday use.
I, myself, go through approximately 800 rounds per month, practicing for IPSC, Steel Challenge and NRA Action Match.

Virtually all IPSC shooters that use Glocks here use lead projectiles in factory barrels with no issues at all.
We have a number of good commercial casters that supply the market.
Topscore Projectiles, Hawksbury River bullets and Westcastings, to name a few.

Thanks.

[Centaur 1]

I think that we can all agree that companies have to make blanket statements about unsafe pratices to protect themselves from frivolous lawsuits. I compare the lead boolit warning to the labels that now come on buckets so parents don't let babies play unattended with a bucket of water. Can a bay drown in a bucket of water? Sure they can, but it doesn't mean that you shouldn't wash the kitchen floor until your kids are old enough to swim. It just means that you should be aware of your surroundings. I don't understand how a barrel with polygonal rifling that's been leaded to look like a sewer pipe is any more dangerous than a barrel with conventional rifling that's leaded just as badly. It might get there quicker, but as long as we know this tendency to lead exists, just watch out for it. There's a big difference between a guy who buys commercial cast boolits for the first time, and most of us on this site. Every day we read posts about slugging our barrels and leementing/beagling our molds to fit the bore. The cold hard truth is, regardless of the warnings by Glock if there's no leading then there's no danger. If you're intelligent enough to cast boolits and load ammunition, then you should be intelligent enough to look down the barrel and look for lead. If doing that makes you uncomfortable, then don't shoot lead. At the same time don't condemn others for doing it. More of us get hurt in car accidents than by exploding Glocks, yet we still drive our cars.

[fatelk]

We all know the manufacturers that say reloads fired in their weapons will violate warranty is pure BS. The lawyers make them do that as law suits are prevented.

However, GLock and H&K are not about to isolate lead bullets as a safety issue unless there is a safety issue.
No offense intended, but why would Glock and H&K isolate reloads in generals as a safety issue unless there really is a safety issue? I don't understand why we should laugh off one warning and take the other so end-of-the-world seriously?

I think the reality is that there is a real safety issue, with both. It's the same safety issue that keeps me from firing anyone else's reloads (with few exceptions), and I doubly sure wouldn't blindly shoot someone else's lead .40 reloads in my Glock.

Who knows how any individual reloader loads their ammo? If you blow your gun up with reloads, it's probably your own fault. I see lead bullets in the same way. Do it wrong and you could run into big trouble. Glock's not going to give instructions on how to do it right. They are basically just going to say if you do it at all you're on your own. I have no problem with that.

A very good friend of mine will never use brass that he didn't buy new himself. He won't touch range pickups even if they are obviously once-fired and pristine. To him it's a mystery where it may have been, and that mystery is just too scary for him to risk it. He about had a fit when I picked up some '06 brass that was a little dented and said I would use it. With that kind of fear of the unknown, it's amazing he reloads at all.

None of it bothers me. I don't get upset, or even try too hard to set them straight. I'll keep shooting my cast bullets through my Glock .40 and my CZ82. I've worked up careful loads for them that work very well.

[22Short]

I keep trying, really I do. I just can't get my Glock to lead up. It has the infamous genuine Glock barrel and everything! No "kaboom". Not even a streak of lead. I go at least 500 rounds at a session, sometimes I don't clean it between sessions either. Other guns take priority, and once i just forgot. So just what is it about polygonal rifling that causes the rumored leading anyway? Anyone? Bueller?

[truckmsl]

I've shot many, many cast boolits through my .40 stock glock barrels with no leading issues. That said, I have gone to aftermarket barrels due to the increased brass life afforded by a tighter chamber.

[HollowPoint]

I haven't been a member of this forum all that long but, during the time that I have patrolled these threads in search of bullet casting wisdom, (Not knowledge but, WISDOM) it's gotten to the point where every time this particular subject gets dredged up again it just seems like a waste of perfectly good internet band-width.

"Wisdom" is what's needed to apply the knowledge.

This subject always seems to start the same way and end the same way; with spurts of honest-to-God common sense thrown in that tend to keep the argument going rather than imparting the, "To Each His Own" capitulation that those bits of common sense were intended to bring about.

Well if it bothers me so much, why have I taken the time to ramble on like this? I don't really know. Maybe it's out of frustration.

Permit me to offer up a possible avenue for avoiding any future bickering about this subject.

The next time those of us who actually have or do shoot cast bullets out of our Glocks see this subject come up, hows about we simply and respectfully refer them to the many, many other threads that have already been posted on this specific subject.

There is an even simpler answer for this debate but, I'm afraid that answer falls under the category of "Common Sense." Alot of us, (myself included) often times have a hard time dealing with common sense.

IF you have reservations or fears about shooting cast lead through your Glock then, don't do it. If you're OK with it, then more power to you. Let's go shoot em up baby.:2gunsfiring_v1:

HollowPoint

[Baja_Traveler]

Why do car commercials showing a car simply driving down the road have a disclaimer across the bottom of the screen warning " Do Not Attempt - Professional Driver on a Closed Course"?

Idiot lawyers, that's why...

I was told by dozens of "experts" that said I was a fool for shooting cast boolits in my Garand, and don't do it. That was 3-4,000 rounds ago without so much as a hint of a leading or fouling problem...

I too see a trend...

[straightarrow]

I would like to shoot lead in my two glock 40's but am having terrible accuracy and tumbling bullets with the Lee tumble lube unsized 175 grain semi wadcutter. What molds and powder are you guys using that are getting good accuracy?

[milprileb]

I meant what I said: Be Safe

I see some take issue and those are the folks whose minds are made up on this subject.

If you take offense to anyone telling you something is unsafe, maybe you ought to pause ?

Be safe.

[HammerMTB]

I meant what I said: Be Safe

I see some take issue and those are the folks whose minds are made up on this subject.

If you take offense to anyone telling you something is unsafe, maybe you ought to pause ?

Be safe.

I only take exception to something being called "unsafe" if it is not really "unsafe"
Shooting lead boolits in Glock barrels is NOT unsafe, in and of itself. There are inherent dangers in discharging a firearm of any kind, at any time, in any manner. It is generally accepted that readers of the forum know general rules of safety, and that if they disobey them, the consequences are their own and not those of the general shooting public.
So why then attempt to point out that shooting lead boolits in Glocks is unsafe? Ignorance? A bias without personal experience? What might bring such a stern warning?
Many here have attested to great success shooting lead in their Glocks. Are there really so many so lucky? Or could it be that the wrong conclusion has been drawn from some past experience, or even some non-experience?
If someone has a problem with leading in a Glock bbl, there are many here who can and will help.
Those who can't help would be better off to stay out of it, rather than stir the pot.

[HammerMTB]

I would like to shoot lead in my two glock 40's but am having terrible accuracy and tumbling bullets with the Lee tumble lube unsized 175 grain semi wadcutter. What molds and powder are you guys using that are getting good accuracy?

I'll start with my own recipe.
I use the 175TC LEE lube groove boolit, sized .401" These are .404"+ as cast, and are too big to shoot that way. I used LLA for some time. When I only lubed once, I had a small amount of leading. I define that thus: I could look in the bbl and see some lead streaks. They were not large, nor were they all down or around the bbl. It was a mild amount, and at that after a day's comp, which is often 200 rounds. The lead is plain WW, BHN=11 or 12. I started lubing twice, and the problem went away.
I shoot a load that chronos 950+ FPS to make major.

In your case, I'd suggest you go back to square 1. What does the bore slug out? Try to have your boolits at least .001" over bore. Early on it would be OK to have them .002" over.
Lube well. I know LLA is smoky. I recently changed over to 45/45/10.
I had better success with LLA alone when I thinned it with mineral spirits. Maybe that will help.
Next, have you shot J-word bullets in the bbl? Copper wash gives lead a place to grab. Get all of that out of there as best you can.
Last, if you have boolits tumbling, try to isolate that. I have had it happen that I had boolits with voids in them that caused tumbling. Is there any consistency to the tumbling? Will it happen often, or just random? If random, I think the boolit is at fault. If you were really leaded up that bad, most or all boolits would tumble. I would think you might get signs of pressure, too.
Do lots of looking and collecting information!
Let us know how you do going forward...... 8-)

[Doby45]

If you take offense to anyone telling you something is unsafe, maybe you ought to pause ?

Really? I hear all the time from people that driving in Atlanta is "unsafe", maybe I should no longer drive to work. I have liberal acquaintances that believe even owning a firearm is "unsafe", maybe I should dispose of all of mine.

No, on second thought I think I will simply make my decision based upon whom it is that is saying something is "unsafe". I will say that mindless zombies should not shoot lead in a stock Glock barrel.. Thankfully, I do not fall in that category.

[prs]

Without cleaning the gun until last night, I had shot 1,250 rounds of boolits through my Glock 23, this over a couple of weeks on occasion. Using Lee TL401-175-SWC with 95pb/2sn/3sb alloy air cooled and lubed with 50lla/40jpw/10ms and left to cure well. The propellant was TrailBoss and the load worked-up with the manufacturer's alternate directions, it is a mild for 40SW loading and I have not bothered to get the chrony out to clock it. I did check the barrel visually with bright light before each session, but never saw any reason to worry. Last evening it took about 4 Ed's Red soaked patches to get all of what appeared to be boolit lube residue out of the bore. I did get a tiny glint or spec of lead on the second patch. With the bore looking pristine clean, I than used a bronze bore brush and Ed's Red to scrub it vigerously and then ran Ed's Red soaked patches again with the third patch clean. No evidence of lead. From now on, I will do my first cleaning patches soaked with mineral spirits to more easily get the boolit lube residue out. I get more lead than that in my Ruger BVs if I shoot smokeless propellant. I think it is all about boolit fit and not mashing the boolits out of shape with a too tight crimp or final size die. YMMV always proceed or retreat with caution.

pr

[fecmech]

Back when I started reloading handguns(1970) with cast bullets I was told repeatedly that you could not shoot lead bullets in .357 magnums because they would lead badly. It was even in a lot of the shooting rags at the time! My guns evidently never got the memo because they didn't lead and were quite accurate. I don't own a Glock but I did have a Kahr 9MM 5 yrs ago that had the polygonal barrel.
It too never received the memo about leading as I put about 3500 cast rounds through it before I sold it. No problems, no leading, good accuracy. I personally don't think Glocks are any more or less prone to leading than any other type barrel and act accordingly. If someone thinks it's dangerous than he shouldn't load lead in his Glock.

[curator]

The two Glock Ka-Booms I witnessed were both caused by reloaded J-word bullets being pushed back into the case as they rode up the feed ramp. I find it hard to believe that bore leading alone can cause dangerous high pressure. A smooth barrel like the Glock polygonal rifles barrel should shoot lead just fine as long as the alloy hardness is correct for the chamber pressure and the diameter is correct for the bore size. I get leading in my Glock 23 (light grey "wash") when using 45/45/10 LLA/JPW lube but absolutely none with LBT "blue." Diameter .402, Boolit hardness is BHN 18 and pressure is about 25,000 psi

[dbldblu]

Back when I started reloading handguns(1970) with cast bullets I was told repeatedly that you could not shoot lead bullets in .357 magnums because they would lead badly. snip

The ammo companies used to use some really soft alloys back then and they would lead your barrel badly in no time. Those of us that cast our own can avoid this as you have.

[fecmech]

The ammo companies used to use some really soft alloys back then and they would lead your barrel badly in no time. Those of us that cast our own can avoid this as you have.
Exactly! Winchester Lubaloy bullets.

[milprileb]

I think Glock said it.

Its like parachutes, pack it and you jump it.

[Bwana]

I think Glock said it.

Its like parachutes, pack it and you jump it.

Bold print. It almost gives an air of authority. Almost.

I spent a lot of time scrubbing lead out of my father's two Colt Trooper 357s from using Lubaloy rounds.

[lcclower]

Lubaloy bullets? I traded off a Colt Python, 1971, because after a few rounds it shot somewhere between a modified and a skeet pattern with Lubaloy bullets. D'oh!

I cast WW with 1/6 Lino bullets and load them fairly hot. So far in my Glock 19, in my S&W 659 and in my son's G21 and Springfield .45, and in my daughter's .380 Bersa the only problem was that Lyman orange lube smoked up the place real bad. (.380 loaded with Bullseye, 9 & .45 loaded with Unique)

To expand Wayne the Shrink's full disclosure:

The Whitworth rifle was the instrument of one of the most remembered acts of black powder sniping. On May 9, 1864, during the Battle of Spotsylvania Courthouse, Union General John Sedgwick was chiding some of his troops for lying down in a ditch to avoid Confederate snipers at a range of around 800 to 1000 yards. So the story goes - the general allowed that they 'couldn't hit an elephant at this range'. Sgt. E. R Grace of the 4th Georgia Infantry scored a head shot a few moments later, with his Whitworth rifle. As a result, the Union attack was delayed, and General Robert E. Lee won the battle.
(from http://johno.myiglou.com/whitworth.htm)

[milprileb]

There you go Bwana, all those negative vibes again.

In lower case: Don't like the message, move on in life !

[W.R.Buchanan]

Here's a point that nobody has made on this subject,,, er any subject.

There is "knowing", then there is "believing"

If you understand what you know about a subject then you should be able to use that knowledge to the betterment of that subject.

IF you donot understand all you know about a subject, then you would believe someone casting doubt, thus perpetuating the ignorance.

If you know why someone tells you not to do something you can decide whether or not to do it. If you do not know why, then doubt will rule your decision. this is only natural.

The cure is education, not denial, and certainly not blind obedience.

Milprileb: State concisely why people should not use cast boolits in Glocks! Donot use the phrase "cuz Glock says not to!" as part of the explanination. We want to see a "technical reason" why this is dangerous.

Warning: you won't win this one.

Randy

[Bwana]

There you go Bwana, all those negative vibes again.

In lower case: Don't like the message, move on in life !

milprileb,

Me thinks thou doth protest too much. If you are detecting negative vibes, they are mere reflections.

[autopilotmp]

A good source for information on this subject is "The Glock in Competition". There is a chapter in this book called The Exploding Glock, Fact or Fiction? by Mark Passamanek. He loves his Glocks and says that you can shoot boolits from your stock barrel as long as you use 22bhn+ and clean often 100-150 rnds. He also states that he will not shoot lead through his barrels only jacketed. The chapter includes some interesting technical data on how pressures can build very rapidly in as few as 50 rounds fired. The info contained therin basicaly says that it is possible to shoot lead w/o issues as long as you keep the bore clean, but things can go bad very quickly. One instance cited a .2 Kpsi increase after 500 jacketed fired, but a 1.0 Kpsi increase after 50 lead rounds fired. The lead continued to climb as follows:

Kpsi
1 rnd 33.2
50 34.2
100 35.1
150 38.8
200 41
300 45

SAAMI max is 35 Kpsi (construction of the test fixture prevents the resulting pressures from damaging the barrels installed in it for tests)

The book also goes into detail about why the polygonal barrel specifialy is unsafe w/ lead boolits.

Not trying to convince anyone anything, just putting some info out that answers some of the questions on "why it is not safe". Do with it what you will, just be safe. You wouldn't reload or suggest to anyone to reload w/o at least one load book handy, why would anyone load for something that is noted as unsafe w/o finding all info available on the subject.

Book: The Glock in Competition, A Shooters How-To Guide by Robin Taylor w/ Bobby Carver and Mark Passamanek

[HammerMTB]

A good source for information on this subject is "The Glock in Competition". There is a chapter in this book called The Exploding Glock, Fact or Fiction? by Mark Passamanek. He loves his Glocks and says that you can shoot boolits from your stock barrel as long as you use 22bhn+ and clean often 100-150 rnds.

All very interesting, but flies in the face of my personal experience.
My .40 boolits are straight WW, BHN 10-11
175 grainers, they are doing ~975FPS average. It's not a hot load, but neither is it a wimpy load. It's loaded to make major.
The typical match goes 200 rounds. I'm not measuring pressure, but there's no notable change, neither in recoil or POA.
There is very little leading in the bbl. One of the things I like about Glock bbls are how smooth they are internally. The polygonal rifling seems to my eye to leave them with considerably fewer points for lead to grip than cut Ballard rifling.
There are a whole lot of factors to consider. The lube, even the powder burn rate will have an effect.
If you really want to get some lead stuck in your bbl, try PB Blocker. I did, and got leading quick! That wasn't the idea of the experiment, just how it turned out.

[fatelk]

I've heard about that before; pressure tests where the pressures rise after so many rounds. The problem I see is that they only say "use a hard bullet", which as we all know is less important that fit to bore and good lube. It would be interesting to be able to do a similar pressure test on a polygonal barrel using a properly sized and lubed bullet.

[Bwana]

To whom it may concern:

As you are probably aware of, this horse has been throughly cussed and discussed for many years and in many forums. The "facts" are there for anyone willing to find them. Too often people who have not tried, or have failed to successfully use, cast boolits in glock handguns pontificate about their ignorance and or failure on the subject. Does this pontification negate the knowledge put forth by successfully users of cast boolits in glock handguns? No, it does not. What it does do is muddy the waters and makes it harded for those seeking the truth to find it. That is what I take issue with.

[looseprojectile]

most of the sky is falling crud about how Glocks are unsafe with naked boolits.

My take on Glock guns with polygonal rifling is that the polygonal rifled barrels should be better than ballard rifling when using plain [un jacketed] boolits.

When I think Glock I think marginal unsupported chamber, weak, unsafe design. Not rifling type. Not to mention how the firing pin drags through the primer during extraction. [square and sharp]. Ejection timing not right?
When shooting a gun with "normal" rifling and it leads horribly, why does it not blow up? Probably because it has a safety factor of strength built in.
I confess that I have never owned a Glock. Not because I am afraid it could blow up but because I figure they are marginal and over priced for what they are.

Considering they are medium to high priced I think they should come with much fewer problems such the sluggish trigger pull and unsupported chambers and the threat that you might lose your hand.

I may own a Glock someday and I am sure that I have the ability to get one to shoot plain lead boolits without leading. I don't send my fine old model Ruger single action guns back to get the transfer bars installed either.
The only factory loads I shoot are either cheaper than reloads or free.
A friend just bought a Glock in 40 S&W caliber. I may go to the effort to load some reloads with my cast boolits and see where the problem could be. I may have to tell him that if I blow it up I will replace it. :CastBoolitsisbest:

Life is good

[W.R.Buchanan]

Loose: You are very correct on your assertions that Glocks can shoot cast boolits. But, let me disspell some of your other concerns about Glocks.

The first Glock barrels did in fact have,,, More of an unsupported chamber than "some other guns."

However from 2nd gen on they are "just as supported", as virtually all other auto pistols you can buy! I have measured the chamber dias on Springfield Armory XD's, Glock, Ruger, and several 1911s in .40 S&W.. The loosest was the Para 16/40 LDA I "owned". The Glocks were mid field as far as chamber dias.

The unsupported area of the chamber is the little crescent shaped area where the feedramp intersects the chamber. Oldest guns had more there. 2nd and newer guns have just as much as any auto pistol, as that's what it takes to get the cartridge into the chamber at an angle. As long as the web of the case is inside the supported area of the chamber there will be no problems. Pic is of a Gen 3 bbl.

Some problems have ocurred from reloading cases that have low webs and the ones that I have seen that were blown up, all were marked "FC" and were produced between 1990-96.. Most of these cases are long gone, and newer brass of all brand names has a considerably stronger web design.

The Glock unsupported chamber "mantra" is largely a mis-understanding perpeterated by the unknowing to describe something they don't understand. NO AUTO PISTOL has a completely supported chamber. Only revolvers have that feature.

As far as the pricing on these guns. Extreme Full pop for most models is $629 with street pricing more like $500, and it is pretty easy to find desirable used models for <$400. Not many quality guns for less than that, and have you priced a Kimber1911 lately. The one I like is that Black 5" ProCarry .45 and it is $1999!

The beauty of a Glock is first, the parts are cheap, and second they are completely interchangable with no fitting or other bs required. So even a well used one can be brought back to near new for $50.

The trigger is what it is, and can be mastered. It just is not a 1911 trigger. But I must point out,,,, no other striker fired pistol has a trigger that is any better.

Glocks are like VW's were in the 60's, they are ubiquitous, they are every where. They got that way for several reasons, but the main one is they are the easiest pistol to learn how to shoot well that there is. Also they are extremely well made tools, and they work everytime. But note: I said they are "tools".

Shoot your friends gun, but realize going in that it is not a target pistol, it is a self defense tool. You should see what I'm telling you very quickly. They are a very good friend to have if you are in need of one.

Randy

[BAGTIC]

It may be a Glock barrel but it is not a polygonal barrel.

[Idaho Sharpshooter]

I suggest asking Glock.

They say not to...

Rich

[fecmech]

I suggest asking Glock.

They say not to...

Rich

They also tell you not to shoot reloads period.

[mpmarty]

Problem Solved. Got rid of all my Glocks.

[alamogunr]

Has anybody changed their mind?

[prs]

Yes. My original intent was to buy an aftermarket barrel for use with cast boolits. But before doing so, I thought I would give the OEM barrel a chance. After extensive experience, I have decided to continue with the OEM barrel and use the saved funds to buy more powder and lead.

prs

[W.R.Buchanan]

I might add that NO gunmaker wants you to shoot reloads. All guns come with this recommendation/disclaimer to not shoot anything but factory ammo.

I guess we don't pay attention to that edict a whole lot here at :cbpour:!:2gunsfiring_v1:

[smilie=w:

Randy