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kend
06-11-2011, 08:03 AM
I'm using a Ken Light machine to anneal brass and I ran a couple pieces of my 284 brass through it and, being new to the annealing thing, I'm not sure I have everything adjusted right. Take a look at the pic and let me know what you think. All 3 look the same so I rotated each case so the color pattern could be seen all around.
http://i85.photobucket.com/albums/k77/jondebarber/284Brass.jpg

JDL
06-11-2011, 10:25 AM
I'm not familiar with the Ken Light machine but, it kinda looks like the heating was uneven and maybe too hot.

1Shirt
06-11-2011, 10:45 AM
Think I agree with JDL.
1shirt!:coffee:

gray wolf
06-11-2011, 01:03 PM
Just a slight hint of blue is all you need, and it should be even . Try to get it down past the shoulder at least a 1/4"
I would set the machine up and run it in a darkened room, you don't want the brass to glow in the dark. If it gets orange hot looking your to hot. I think 621* is what you want.
( check me on the temp. )
You look a little toasty there.

cbrick
06-11-2011, 01:06 PM
I have the BC-1000 from Ken Light; it is an extremely well built tool. Annealing I learned is an acquired skill. It is not something that you just flip a switch and go to town. I saved up a bunch of old brass and even scrounged some range brass that I never intended to use, I used this brass to practice with the machine and it did take some practice to get to where I was satisfied with the outcome.

That's not a slam against the machine, it’s simply that the annealing process itself is a learning process and does take time and practice. Once you have done your job of learning the process & the machine, how to get it properly set up for the brass you are doing the BC-1000 is a joy to use and you can run through and properly anneal an amazing amount of brass in no time.

Like most things in life that are worthwhile, there is a learning curve to annealing.

Rick

cajun shooter
06-12-2011, 11:25 AM
The first piece from the left appears to be over heated. This will cause a brass case to weaken down into the web area and split. The mouth of the case should be rotated as it is being exposed to the heat source. You should remove when the first hint of color appears.

cbrick
06-12-2011, 11:42 AM
The mouth of the case should be rotated as it is being exposed to the heat source. You should remove when the first hint of color appears.

That's not how the BC-1000 that he is using works. The brass is self rotated and then drops from the machine on its own.

He just needs to practice with it and learn the proper torch setting and angle/distance of the brass from the flame. Each type of brass is slightly different in these settings. Also, each set of torches you decide on will have their own flame settings, torches do vary.

Practice, practice, practice. It is a learning curve.

Rick

Doc Highwall
06-12-2011, 02:18 PM
I have a question for you cbrick. If knowing what you know now about annealing and with more choices for annealing machines, would you buy the Ken Light again or another brand? Is there any short comings that you would like to see changed?

Shiloh
06-12-2011, 03:48 PM
I roll them in my fingers in the flame of a propane torch. I have also done it this way as well.
Knock them over into the water when they reach color. flip the torch from side to side for even heating.

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showpost.php?p=524183&postcount=11

Shiloh

cbrick
06-12-2011, 07:38 PM
I have a question for you cbrick. If knowing what you know now about annealing and with more choices for annealing machines, would you buy the Ken Light again or another brand? Is there any short comings that you would like to see changed?

The Ken Light machine is built like a rock, I couldn't possibly live long enough to ever wear this thing out so buying another one will never happen. However, say it was stolen, I would buy another BC-1000 in a New York second, wouldn't think twice about.

Rick

rollmyown
06-12-2011, 09:33 PM
Shiloh's, method seems more inkeeping with my budget!

What does that machine cost? It looks like quality kit (expensive).

cbrick
06-12-2011, 11:03 PM
This should help ya out, Ken's web site.

Ken Light Mfg - The after Market Sight Specialist (http://www.kenlightmfg.com/)

Rick

Bullwolf
06-12-2011, 11:18 PM
They make a heat sensing chemical paste that you can coat your brass with to help you with the temperature learning curve for annealing.

There is a specific look, and feel to the timing when doing this by hand, rather than by machine.

I found watching Ammosmith's annealing video on You tube very informative, and wished the internet was around years ago when I was learning how to anneal brass. I also enjoyed watching the annealing machines in operation since I had never seen one work before.

The written instructions I had followed describing how to anneal the neck of rifle brass, paled in comparison to watching a color video of the whole process being done correctly.



- Bullwolf

kend
06-12-2011, 11:39 PM
The written instructions I had followed describing how to anneal the neck of rifle brass, paled in comparison to watching a color video of the whole process being done correctly.


That's exactly what I've run into with this, the machine comes with an instruction book and Ken's website has pretty much the same instructions on it but it would help if there were some color photos or a video. I sent the same picture to Ken asking his advice but he didn't give any more advice than what I've gotten here, and never said if the cases were good or bad.

I know I need more experience with it but I'm trying to figure out what to do to make it come out right. I bought the torches he recommends in the setup instructions but was thinking/hoping it would be relatively simple to figure out. No doubt I'll get it figured out, it ain't rocket surgery and I've encountered bigger challenges before. cbrick is right, it is built like a rock and I wouldn't hesitate to buy another one if I needed it. As a machinist I was impressed with the quality of everything and it is very easy to operate, as far as running cases through it.

Jon K
06-12-2011, 11:43 PM
Ditto...Ditto everything Rick said.......FYI mine is sn#0006 and still going strong & trouble free. Have only replaced drive wheel o-rings & abrasive under the shellplate.

Jon

cajun shooter
06-13-2011, 09:08 AM
CBRICK, I am quite aware of the workings of the ken light machine but I have never operated one. I thought that the machine might have a adjustment that increases or decreases the rotation of the cases. Having annealed cases since the 70's by various hand methods and knowing the whys and how much of the process, I thought that the machine would included this. I guess I should have stepped back and allowed the experts help. I always end up wrong when trying to help past my range of use. I also thought that the machine would have a flame adjustment which if turned down would help the same by not over heating.

cbrick
06-13-2011, 10:32 AM
I thought that the machine might have a adjustment that increases or decreases the rotation of the cases.

No and its not really needed.


I also thought that the machine would have a flame adjustment which if turned down would help the same by not over heating.

Yes, the flame is adjustable as is the angle of the flame. Properly adjusting the flame and the angle of the torches is the needed learning curve just as with annealing by any means. I’ll repeat it again, annealing is a learning curve by any means you decide to do it. It takes practice to see & learn what happens with different flame adjustments & to get the brass annealed a full 360 degrees. Again, this is not a slam against the machine; it is the annealing process itself that needs to be learned.

As the wheel turns the cases in the wheel spin continuously. Once adjusted you drop cases into the wheel on one side, they rotate & spin through the flame until they drop out the bottom on the other side into a waiting box. It’s about as fast as I can grab another handful of brass and drop them in plus, the brass never gets wet.

Looking at the picture, the center of the shell plate holds water that keeps the shell plate from overheating and the shell plate keeps the body of the brass from overheating. The shell plates are different thicknesses & different size holes for different calibers so only the proper amount of case neck and shoulder is annealed. Works like a dream and is easier to do than to explain once you learn annealing.

Rick

Doc Highwall
06-13-2011, 12:01 PM
I saw one where the shell plate could have two or three different size holes in it so you would not have to change plates.
I would be interested in annealing 223, 6mmBr, 308, 30-30 and 45-90.

cbrick
06-13-2011, 01:00 PM
I saw one where the shell plate could have two or three different size holes in it so you would not have to change plates. I would be interested in annealing 223, 6mmBr, 308, 30-30 and 45-90.

The shell plates are each thick enough (tall enough) to cover up the proper amount of the case body to prevent annealing too much of the case. If you tried to anneal 6 BR (1.5" length) with the 45-90 shell plate not enough of the 6 BR neck and shoulder (if any) would be above the shell plate. If you did it the other way around and used the 6 BR plate thickness for 45-90 far too much of the case body would be exposed allowing annealing of the case body.

The holes are brass diameter specific, they are just large enough to allow free rotation of the brass, too large (loose) and the aluminum couldn't draw enough heat from the case body and would over anneal the case body.

This machine is really very well thought out.

Rick

Doc Highwall
06-13-2011, 02:20 PM
Thanks for the reply cbrick, I understand the workings of the Ken Light machine but I wanted a actual users input.

Shiloh
06-13-2011, 03:21 PM
Shiloh's, method seems more inkeeping with my budget!

What does that machine cost? It looks like quality kit (expensive).

$400.00

Looks like a great machine. Due to my budget woes, I'll stick to how I have been doing it.

Shiloh