Explosion at GOEX plant

[northmn]

A resident livng 45 miles from the GOEX plant at the Camp Minden reported hearing a big bang. About 1000 pounds of BP went off in the part of the plant corning mill. One person tripped and was taken to the hospital, no life threatening injuries were reported. The ALR site has postings from individuals living near the site. 6.22 AM this morning.

DP

[troy_mclure]

great, another thing for the state gov to restrict bp sales.

im only 3 hours from the goex plant, and havent seen any in years.

[Boz330]

great, another thing for the state gov to restrict bp sales.

im only 3 hours from the goex plant, and havent seen any in years.

Another good reason to know how to make your own.

Bob

[Marvin S]

Not again, this has been the umpteenth time in the last few years.

[DIRT Farmer]

Thats the reason they don't screw the siding on tight.

[George Tucker]

They also leave the Roofs unattached, George.

[waksupi]

Those guys have had practice of blowing the place up. Very good on their safety record here, as no one was killed.

[giz189]

Another good reason to know how to make your own.

Bob Not if your house blows up!

[JeffinNZ]

Not if your house blows up!

Yeap, my thoughts too. If the BIG boys can foul it up then..........

The only thing better than a big explosion is lots of little ones.

[Boz330]

Not if your house blows up!

Don't make it "IN" your house.:bigsmyl2: - I just finished my 2nd batch and with a little care things will be fine. Making large batches for production create problems that are a lot tougher to control than the hobbyist runs into.
This subject has been beat to death in other threads and I don't want to go there. There are things that I consider dangerous that other people do, I just don't do them, to each his own.

Bob

[trickyasafox]

glad no one was hurt- 1000lbs of BP has to make one heck of a boom

[troy_mclure]

if its loose just a woosh and bright flash.

[Fly]

I,m with Boz on this.The ONLY thing that set's off BP is heat.I would love to know what they think was the cause.I really don't want to get in a fight with anyone here on this issue.

Fly

[JIMinPHX]

The ONLY thing that set's off BP is heat.

Not static electricity????

[dualsport]

Maybe a static spark.

[swheeler]

Well I guess it's time to make the plant "non smoking"

[Jim]

MSD (http://web.mit.edu/rocketteam/www/documents/MSDS/Motor%20MSDS.pdf), black powder rocket starter pellets

Page 3, sections 9 and 10 state that black powder can be ignited by impact.

9.0 PHYSICAL AND CHEMICAL PROPERTIES
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Physical State: solid
Appearance: rubber cylinders inside plastic parts
Odour: none
Odour Threshold: Not available.
pH: Not available.
Vapour Pressure: Not available.
Vapour Density: Not available.
Viscosity: Not available.
Evaporation Rate: Not available.
Boiling Point: Not available.
Freezing/Melting Point: Not available.
Coefficient of water/oil distribution: Not available.
Autoignition Temperature: 280°C
Flash Point: Not available.
Explosion Limits, lower (LEL): Not available.
Explosion Limits, upper (UEL): Not available.
Sensitivity to Mechanical Impact: unprotected black powder can be ignited by impact
Sensitivity to Static Discharge: unprotected black powder can be ignited by static discharge
Decomposition Temperature: > 400°C
Solubility in water: black powder is soluble in water
Specific Gravity/Density: black powder = 1.7-2.1
Propellant = not available
Molecular Formula: Not applicable
Molecular Weight: Not applicable.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
10.0 STABILITY AND REACTIVITY
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Chemical Stability:
Stable under normal temperatures and pressures.
Conditions to Avoid:
Heat, static electricity, friction, impact
Incompatibilities with Other Materials:
Combustible or flammable materials, explosive materials
Hazardous Products Of Decomposition:
Oxides of nitrogen
Hazardous Polymerization:
Will not occur.

[Baron von Trollwhack]

OK.....................don't use rocket pellets in the firearms shooting sports. Keep the pellet data out too. Nothing in the world says it is applicable here. BvT

[John Taylor]

Well I guess it's time to make the plant "non smoking"

I think they already let the smoke out, BP smokes a lot.

[cajun shooter]

This will allow all the people who have never fired a single BP round to run in with all the crazy restrictions to make the plant safe. There is only one reason that explosion took place," A HUMAN PERSON WAS PRESENT AND DID SOMETHING WRONG". Black powder may be stored for a 100 years with out a problem and then along comes a person with detached brain cells who adds the wrong thing and BOOM!! It is no different than a loaded gun. It is perfectly safe until it is picked up by a idiot

[Jim]

BVT, would you accept THIS (http://web.mit.edu/rocketteam/www/documents/MSDS/Black%20Powder.pdf)?

[Fly]

This will allow all the people who have never fired a single BP round to run in with all the crazy restrictions to make the plant safe. There is only one reason that explosion took place," A HUMAN PERSON WAS PRESENT AND DID SOMETHING WRONG". Black powder may be stored for a 100 years with out a problem and then along comes a person with detached brain cells who adds the wrong thing and BOOM!! It is no different than a loaded gun. It is perfectly safe until it is picked up by a idiot

So well put.How many of us have shot BP all our life.I'm 65 years of age &
even make my own.I have friends that have made there own for years.

But as been said above, if you have that many people working around
it some bone head is going to get careless or do something stupid.I had
a friend in my shop watching me press rockets.

I turned to talk to him & he had a cigarette in his hand, but not lit.Boy did
I jump him on that.:groner:

Fly

[nanuk]

OK.....................don't use rocket pellets in the firearms shooting sports. Keep the pellet data out too. Nothing in the world says it is applicable here. BvT

BP is BP, whether it is in a rocket pellet, a rifle pellet, or loose. it is all the same stuff.

I think ALL gunpowder can be set off by those same actions that Jim listed

[Ajax]

This will allow all the people who have never fired a single BP round to run in with all the crazy restrictions to make the plant safe. There is only one reason that explosion took place," A HUMAN PERSON WAS PRESENT AND DID SOMETHING WRONG". Black powder may be stored for a 100 years with out a problem and then along comes a person with detached brain cells who adds the wrong thing and BOOM!! It is no different than a loaded gun. It is perfectly safe until it is picked up by a idiot


Couldn't have said it better.

Andy

[missionary5155]

Good morning
I read Robinson Crusoe again rescently. There is an incedent in the story where there is a loud thunderclap which causes Robinson to divide up his BP into small pachages for fear it could all be exploded by one thunder clap. Obviously this must have been a thought to Daniel Defoe and included it in his book in 1719.
Anyone ever read a documented account where thunder was responsible for BP ignition ?
Mike in Peru

[GREENCOUNTYPETE]

we account for such a tiny percentage of black powder , more goes up in the air in one night 4th of July than every muzzle loader and black powder cartridge shooter uses collectively in a hole year.

[DrB]

if its loose just a woosh and bright flash.

There's a self confinement limit at which "loose" is no longer loose. It varies by material. For flash powder I believe it's on the order of an ounce. Blackpowder is on the order of a few hundred pounds, I think..

Pretty sure they were past the limit. :)

A ball mill and milling media will confine bp.

If you are milling at home, you should take basic precautions as documented in the amateur pyrotechnic safety literature. Plan on being safe in the event of an accident, don't assume it won't happen to you. Obviously GOEX does. :) Hence blow out walls and roof, physical separation of the plant, limit of the quantity of proximate bp, etc.

It's the same principle as "a gun is always loaded." Exercise the safety precautions just as you exercise muzzle control. There are excellent safety articles out there. Read them before getting started.

[Omnivore]

Someone mentioned static spark as a possible cause. This guy did some experiments. Very interesting;
http://www.ctmuzzleloaders.com/ctml_experiments/sparks/sparks.html

[Fly]

Someone mentioned static spark as a possible cause. This guy did some experiments. Very interesting;
http://www.ctmuzzleloaders.com/ctml_experiments/sparks/sparks.html

Here we go again!I have been over this same stuff & more, on this form.There
are people here that just are blind to the facts in front of them.

It all go's back to HEAT.Another test used a stun gun with over 80,000 volts &
could not set it off.Again HEAT, if a stun gun had enough heat to set off
BP it would burn the he!! out of your skin.

Volts, & amps are two differant cats.
Fly:drinks:

[Baron von Trollwhack]

The posted MSDS was intresting. P 1 @ Unusual fire and explosion hazards and P 2-3 @ Special precautions.................................NOTHIN G ABOUT STATIC.

I think using non-sparking tools was mentioned in the MSDS, but that's not a static reference either, rather a reference to a SPARK of HOT metal as in a FLINTLOCK or similar spark.

The simplest fix is for the "statics" to always insure the wearing and using of grounded clothing and equipment at all times and to verify compliance with a "STATIC CERTIFIED" observer whenever in posession of, or even just thinking about black powder. They will feel very good then, sort of like the people helping GAIA adjust to man.

The only other possibility is to somehow detect accident prone individuals early in life and segregate them in a sort of " A Black Powder Leper Colony" to protect others in the area. This of course does not address the "nervous nellie" crowd who have a rather wide range of similar concerns that govern their activities.

BvT

[Baron von Trollwhack]

Good morning
I read Robinson Crusoe again rescently. There is an incedent in the story where there is a loud thunderclap which causes Robinson to divide up his BP into small pachages for fear it could all be exploded by one thunder clap. Obviously this must have been a thought to Daniel Defoe and included it in his book in 1719.
Anyone ever read a documented account where thunder was responsible for BP ignition ?
Mike in Peru

Mike, that was in the book as a writer's method of AGAIN pointing out in his book just how great Robinson Crusoe was at surviving his terrible predicament.

Another, clearer, and somewhat better example was Crusoe's foresight in developing a partially GOAT based economy for survival. The thunderclap was a very remote threat, the goat business, daily bread. Dang that Crusoe, er, ah, Defoe, was GOOD !

BvT

[7of7]

Not if your house blows up!

Wives tend to get really mad when you do that.. :groner:

[cajun shooter]

Well, If you read all the misinformation given on this thread you will see why people cause accidents. First it has been proven for the past few years that static electricity will not ignite BP. Second, Marvin in Kansas the Goex plant in Minden,La. has not blown up several times in the past few years. They have a very good safety record. I also live here and have not heard or read anything in print where it was 1000 or more pounds that went off. I would like to read that and see the source. I have a very good friend who is a distributor for Goex and he goes to the plant quite often and keeps me up to date and I just talked with him 2 days ago. He advised that Hodgdon was still investigating along with Federal Officers and do not have any more information to release at this time. Troy McClure, You have posted before about how hard it is to buy BP here in Louisiana. You may if you want to spend the money have 25 pounds at your front door in the morning. If not then you can for sure have it with in 5 days. If you need numbers then I will be more than happy to supply you with them.You have at least 6 or more sources to choose from including my friend who is in Marksville. Your exact location is vague but you may receive it unless your mailing address is at Angola. Guys I don't know if you realize this but when you post about anything on this and other forums the posting is for the world to read. I'm not trying to be a SA but if some one does a search on the Goex plant, this thread will be posted for them to read. Before long the story will be 5000 pounds and the plant has had 7 other explosions since the first of the year. I do the same as the other members do and that is to defend my state when it is made to look bad with false information. We already have a bad reputation for our honest politics and our officials who only take enough from the state coffers to send the kids to college. We do send a few to prison if they don't know enough of the big boys to hide all the State's case files so that they can't be sent away.

[Fly]

Thank You Cajun Shooter, that was very well put.I agree with everything you said.

Fly

[roverboy]

I'm glad nobody was hurt badly.