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joeb33050
12-30-2006, 07:47 AM
The Nov./Dec. 2001 ASSRA Journal article: “The Importance of Case Length in Cast Bullet Accuracy”, stated that short cases yield less accuracy than cases close to maximum length with cast bullets.
I worked with a 300 WM, case length is published as 2.620", my rifle would accept a case length of 2.648. I made cases from 300 H&H, then 375 H&H; ended with case length of 2.646". I found no accuracy difference with a longer case.

The 30/30 case length is 2.039", trim to 2.028". The 30/30 Martini bench gun chamber case length is 2.080". The M54 30/30 chamber case length is 2.115". All cases I've measured are less than 2.039" long once fired, some a lot shorter.
I've been working with Buffalo Arms "long" 38/55 brass, making long 30/30s. So far there's no accuracy improvement with the long cases.

I made 223 cases from 222 Magnum brass to get "long" cases to match the chamber, with no accuracy improvement.

I've checked case length and chamber case length on a number of rifles over the past years, and find in all cases that the chamber is longer than spec, and all brass is no longer than the trim-to length as bought. After trimming square and to the minimum length of the majority of the lot, cases end up substantially shorter than the chamber. 32/20 cases for the Contender were very short.

Jeff Bowles mentioned that he makes 308 Win cases that are .0015" from the end of the chamber, that this enhances accuracy.

Frank Marshall, in "Neck Length And Accuracy In Cast Loads", TFS March April 2005, page 174-9, mentions seeing substantial accuracy improvements when using cases with "long" necks-not to exceed the chamber case length of course.

Duplex mentions that short cases can cause chamber ringing.

If making cases that match-the-chamber-length-less-a-bit improves accuracy for anyone out there, I'd like to know the details and the accuracy change. If it works, it is one of the easiest and cheapest changes to make. I'm hoping to find out that it works, and "how to".
Thanks;
joe brennan

Bass Ackward
12-30-2006, 08:14 AM
Joe,

It would depend on how you were shooting wouldn't it?

If you don't have brass filling this space, then you have a larger diameter space where the bullet is not supported. A bullet would be free to fill or attempt to fill this space if there is enough pressure forcing the base to catch up with the nose of the bullet.

Remember, picture short brass in your mind. The ideal condition for a bullet is the full support of breach seating. Never lose bullet support if you have that option.

Larry Gibson
12-30-2006, 12:22 PM
Bass is correct.

Larry Gibson

joeb33050
12-30-2006, 01:48 PM
Joe,

It would depend on how you were shooting wouldn't it?

If you don't have brass filling this space, then you have a larger diameter space where the bullet is not supported. A bullet would be free to fill or attempt to fill this space if there is enough pressure forcing the base to catch up with the nose of the bullet.

Remember, picture short brass in your mind. The ideal condition for a bullet is the full support of breach seating. Never lose bullet support if you have that option.

All the references I've read have to do with fixed ammunition.
As a note: much breech seating is done with the bullet ~1/16" ahead of the case mouth. I breech seat 2 guns, 45/70 and 32/35 with the bullet ending up in the case mouth when ready to fire-the bullet won't go in all the way without undue force, and shoots great hanging out. Now rhat I think of it, some bullets work the same in a 30/30.
But enough of that.
Do "proper" length cases increase accuracy for anyone out there, in fixed ammunition?
Thanks;
joe b.

Bass Ackward
12-30-2006, 06:01 PM
All the references I've read have to do with fixed ammunition.

Do "proper" length cases increase accuracy for anyone out there, in fixed ammunition?
Thanks;
joe b.


Joeb,

The answer is yes and no.

Yes if you are running fast powders that obturate the bullet into the space vacated by the brass.

No if you use slower powders that pressure never gets high enough until long after the bullet has passed this point.

My comment was to think of breech seating as perfect world conditions and that anything less than full support of the slug creates boundaries or limits. That was the purpose for my reference.

felix
12-30-2006, 06:24 PM
In the condom BR world, neck length does not matter (within reason). Neck thickness does matter 100 percent of the time. Powder speed is sufficient to blow open the neck equally around the bullet. Notice verticals on target. If some, increase powder a tenth. If verticals disappear, all's fine. If verticals seem to increase, then a serious check must be made for turning necks or eradicating a growing donut. ... felix