Fish Fryer sale for smelting

[Dale53]

Bass Pro is running another sale on their fish fryer. I have long had one of these and have done 1000 lbs of scrap lead in a day (with a helper).

Give the wife the aluminum pan for the kitchen (never, never, NEVER try to melt lead in an aluminum pot - the high heat required will weaken the aluminum and there have been reports of catastrophic failures). I use a Harbor Freight six quart cast iron dutch oven. This burner will handle at least an 8 qt. oven but I use what I have. Mine will hold over 125 lbs of lead, so I can run a good bit in the normal half day that I give it (four hours and I am ready to quit - curse of being a "Certified Old Fart").

Do yourself a favor and get a good thermometer to make certain you keep the temperature no higher than 650 degrees. Zinc melts at 780 degrees and I like a bit of a pad so I don't run to hot and ruin a batch of metal by melting zinc weights in with my GOOD WW's.

At any rate, $30.00 for a powerful fish fryer for smelting is a GOOD investment:

http://www.basspro.com/Bass-Pro-Shops-Propane-Cooker-with-Aluminum-Pot/product/10205245/-1631022

Dale53

[donaldjr1969]

Dale, I have a simple question for you when using a cast iron pot for smelting. When you are ready to cast the fluxed lead into ingots for future use, how do you transfer the lead into the ingot molds? Do you pour it like pouring the water out when cooking spaghetti? Or do you use a large kitchen ladle to pour into the ingot molds? When I am able to get myself set up to cast my own in a year or so, I would like to know how others do things before I go off and try things on my own with possibly less than ideal results.

[RKJ]

Dale, I have a simple question for you when using a cast iron pot for smelting. When you are ready to cast the fluxed lead into ingots for future use, how do you transfer the lead into the ingot molds? Do you pour it like pouring the water out when cooking spaghetti? Or do you use a large kitchen ladle to pour into the ingot molds? When I am able to get myself set up to cast my own in a year or so, I would like to know how others do things before I go off and try things on my own with possibly less than ideal results.


Donald, I'm not Dale and so far I don't have a fish fryer (I have a little $10.00 hot plate from Walgreens and a SS 3 qt pot that holds about 25 + lbs of lead). What I use a ladle that I got from Goodwill for about $1.50 and SS condiment cups that I got from Walmart ($1.00 each) they hold a little over 1 lb and the solid ingot falls right out. The ladle works great and 1 ladle fills the cups to the rim. Also, Walmart has welders gloves for $10.00, I recommend a pair of those. Good luck and enjoy once you get started, it's quite fun and addicting. :)


Oh Dale, thanks for the heads up on the fish fryer.

[donaldjr1969]

Thanks, RKJ

When I was laid off, I took home the welders gloves I was given at work. While I did not weld, they were for safety reasons when changing a propane tank on a forklift and the valve on the full tank happened to be in the open position.

As for a pot, my mom may still have an old cast iron pot used for deep frying. It is either a 2qt or 3qt capacity. Both of us now use electric deep fryers so that cast iron pot, after a little bit of cleaning, could easily be pressed into service as a smelter. After all, I have read from many people here that, if at all possible one does NOT want to use their nice furnace for smelting/fluxing. :)

[Dale53]

Dale, I have a simple question for you when using a cast iron pot for smelting. When you are ready to cast the fluxed lead into ingots for future use, how do you transfer the lead into the ingot molds? Do you pour it like pouring the water out when cooking spaghetti? Or do you use a large kitchen ladle to pour into the ingot molds? When I am able to get myself set up to cast my own in a year or so, I would like to know how others do things before I go off and try things on my own with possibly less than ideal results.

Never, never, never try to pick up a full pot of molten lead and try to pour it! That is a certain recipe for disaster.

That said, over the years, I have picked up a number of cast bullet ingot moulds from Lyman, Saeco, Lee, and home made. When working with large quantities of lead, it is VERY helpful to have a large dipper and ingot moulds that will handle ingots that weigh from 3-5 lbs, along with several of the 1/2-1.0 lb ingot moulds. Just make sure that your large ingot moulds are small enough to be properly utilized by YOUR particular lead pot.

Here is a picture of my set up:

http://i269.photobucket.com/albums/jj80/Dale53/QWinter2009andleadsmelting-1768.jpg

Here is a "home made" ingot mould built by a professional welder
friend. 2" angle iron was used about six inches long. These ingots will run from 3-5 lbs depending on how full you fill them. They work particularly well in my RCBS pot. When these were made, the welder took particular pains to "tilt" the handles so that the ends of the ingots release easily. Failure to do this can actually lock the ingots in the mould. If you examine the picture closely, you can see what I mean:

http://i269.photobucket.com/albums/jj80/Dale53/QIngotmoulds031.jpg

I use a #3 Rowell ladle. It pulls clean metal from the bottom of the ladle.It holds about 4.0 lbs. Any larger and they get to be a two handed deal. However, they are expensive. You may choose later to get one but a stainless steel dipper from a Thrift Store will do fine for you as you get started.

The big advantage of the larger ingot moulds is that you can pour lead much faster with less effort. A normal ingot mould holds four one pound ingots (meaning four pours for four pounds). The home made mould holds three five lb ingots (three pours for 15 lbs). The difference when dealing with 125 lbs in marked.

I try to do a minimum of 250 lbs in one smelt. I can do that in a couple of hours. After the pour, while the metal is setting up, I immediately load the pot up for another melt. It takes about 30-40 minutes to melt after the first pot comes up to heat. Leave a 1/2-1 of molten metal in the pot to speed heat transfer for the next melt. Now, at the end of the pour, you can tilt the pot to get as much out as possible before you try to pick up the near empty pot and pour out the last bit.

Dale53

[pistolman44]

Does this burner have a control knob for turning the flame up or down for tempture control?

[Dale53]

Does this burner have a control knob for turning the flame up or down for tempture control?

Yes it does. I consider that EXTREMELY important. You must be able to keep the temperature below the melting point of zinc if you are going to be able to smelt WW's without contaminating them.

A good thermometer and temperature control will allow you to easily do that.

Dale53

[nicholst55]

I took advantage of this sale and ordered one; it shipped the next day. Since Bass Pro has a store in Maryland, where the fryer is being shipped to, I got to pay state sales tax, too. Total with shipping and tax was just over $40.

[donaldjr1969]

Never, never, never try to pick up a full pot of molten lead and try to pour it! That is a certain recipe for disaster.
Gotcha. I just wanted to be sure. The crucibles I used to pour aluminum in high school held at least a half gallon and maybe 1 full gallon of molten aluminum. Now we obviously poured the aluminum direct from the crucible into the sandcasting mold. But then, we had specialized tongs to hold the crucible. And aluminum is a lot lighter than lead, obviously. :P So it was safe to pour a full crucible of Aluminum.

But without any specialized tongs, I assumed that a full pot of lead was unsafe to pour and thus, a ladle was needed. But when the pot was close to empty, I was curious to what the norm was to do. Thanks, Dale! :)

[DukeInFlorida]

Hate to break it to you, Dale, but the burner on that unit is only 53,000 btu. That's a low pressure unit, and won't do the job quite as well as one of the 110,000 btu units.....

I gave away my disappointing 53,000 btu burner a long time ago...........

This one is 105,000 btu:
http://www.acehardware.com/product/index.jsp?productId=1288868&cp=2568443.2568445.2598559.2637660

Full specs here:
http://kingkooker.com/store/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=3&products_id=19

It's cheaper at Ace Hardware stores!!!

http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/4151qenyG%2BL.jpg


Bass Pro is running another sale on their fish fryer. I have long had one of these and have done 1000 lbs of scrap lead in a day (with a helper).

At any rate, $30.00 for a powerful fish fryer for smelting is a GOOD investment:

http://www.basspro.com/Bass-Pro-Shops-Propane-Cooker-with-Aluminum-Pot/product/10205245/-1631022

Dale53

[Stick_man]

Every once in a while you can find great deals in places you'd least expect to. I found a burner made by Bayou Classics (?) at Ace Hardware. It was the SP1 model and may have been discontinued because it is no longer listed on the Ace Hardware website. It claims a 185,000 BTU output and I picked it up just yesterday for a total of $38 (~$34+state sales tax).

Now, I just need to get a bottle of propane to fire it up and melt some wheelweights. :)

[Dale53]

Duke in Maine;
Well, I don't know how to answer that. My Bass Pro (appears identical to the referred to unit and came from the same place) is the unit I am ACTUALLY using and have been for several years. Last year, my brother and I melted 650 lbs of lead from 65-92 lb ingots (much tougher to melt than WW's) and smelted those 650 lbs in an afternoon. I used the pictured outfit (those pictures were taken during that particular process.

I can do 250 lbs in less than two hours from lead scrap working by myself. Now, that is not a production rate for a factory but it should suit most individual shooters quite well. I have to keep the gas turned down when doing wheelweights or it will get too hot and I could easily melt zinc weights into the mix ruining my mixture.

Keep in mind that some units are rated higher than they deliver. Mine comes with a pressure regulator with an level adjustment. I am aware that there are Jet units that put out more heat but they are also quite noisy.

On the other hand, if you can get a better unit for the same or less money ($30.00) then good for you. Just don't put people off a good unit unnecessarily.

Just sayin'...

Dale53

[mold maker]

Dale, as long as your using a cast pot of less than 10qt, your 53K BTU is plenty.
If ya make a wind screen to hold the heat against the sides of the pot, you can turn the burner down even further. It saves gas and is much more comfortable to work around, even in warm weather.
My wind screen is simply the top part of a metal 5 gal bucket that was slotted to extend a couple inches, below the pot support frame. It captures the flame and holds it against the pot.
Also if ya leave the last 1/2" in the pot to cool, it will speed the next smelt. Just mark the top with a scratched ID. When removed cold it can be stored with it's like ingots, in case the next smelt is a different alloy.

[Dale53]

moldmaker;
My sentiments, exactly. I think sometimes too many of us always tend to think that "bigger is better". Sometimes it is and sometimes it isn't. In this case, I consider it a very useful size that minimizes initial expense and also keeps gas use to the minimum (with the horrible fuel costs these days, that is NOT to be overlooked).

Those are some nice tips too, moldmaker. I can attest to them, myself.

Thanks for sharing.

Dale53

[bowfin]

Never, never, never try to pick up a full pot of molten lead and try to pour it! That is a certain recipe for disaster.

For a beginner it always looks way lighter than it actually is. This is because we assume by experience that all liquids are pretty much the same weight whether water or soup or gravy or whatever. However, a gallon of water is just shy of 8 1/2 pounds, while a gallon of lead weighs over 94 pounds. That's a lot of weight to wrestle while holding on to a skillet handle or pot handle. and hit a target.

[gray wolf]

Well I will go with the big hitters on lifting the pot, never, never try to do it.
The pot can tilt both ways, away from you and right at you, use a ladle.
The last inch or so can be managed, but be cautious and lift or tip carefully.
My burner has no flame adjustments, I use the one on the regulator. Fact is I have two fryers
and neither has a flame regulator, both have to be adjusted from the tank regulator.
So far it has not been a problem for me, is this OK ? is it UN-safe to not have a burner that has an adjustment for the flame ?

[Doby45]

Hey Dale, I think you need a few more red Coleman coolers. You want I should send ya a couple? Don't want you to run out. ;)

[cbrick]

Dang Dale, is that your smiling face in the picture? I thought you said you were OLD?


My burner has no flame adjustments, I use the one on the regulator. Fact is I have two fryers and neither has a flame regulator, both have to be adjusted from the tank regulator. So far it has not been a problem for me, is this OK ? is it UN-safe to not have a burner that has an adjustment for the flame ?

I don't think that's a problem, probably be more convienent to have a seperate flame adjustment but the control on the regulator is how I've done it for several years. No problems here and it does adjust the flame.

Rick

[Dale53]

Doby45;
I used to do a LOT of family camping. You guys don't miss a trick.

cbrick;
That feller in the picture is my brother Charlie. He offered to help me smelt those large ingots (that is a 92 lb one in the pot). That is when I learned to leave a bit of molten lead in the pot to encourage heat transfer. I started with a clean, cold pot and it took nearly 45 minutes to melt that ingot (only the corners were touching the pot, so it took a while). After I had a layer of molten lead in the pot, it only took about 20-25 minutes to melt one of those large ingots.

My Bass Pro fish fryer uses the regulator knob to regulate the heat (or rather, I do). It seems to work quite well for that purpose. I maintain the heat at a maximum of 650 degrees to avoid melting an errant zinc WW. When I see a WW floating, I KNOW it is a zinc or steel one. Generally, it is easy to sort the steel ones out - zinc ones are a bit harder to find.

Dale53

[Lead guy]

Donald, I'm not Dale and so far I don't have a fish fryer (I have a little $10.00 hot plate from Walgreens and a SS 3 qt pot that holds about 25 + lbs of lead). What I use a ladle that I got from Goodwill for about $1.50 and SS condiment cups that I got from Walmart ($1.00 each) they hold a little over 1 lb and the solid ingot falls right out. The ladle works great and 1 ladle fills the cups to the rim. Also, Walmart has welders gloves for $10.00, I recommend a pair of those. Good luck and enjoy once you get started, it's quite fun and addicting. :)


Oh Dale, thanks for the heads up on the fish fryer.

RKJ- was it a Sylvania brand hot plate? I went to Walgreens today and bought one but it doesn't seem hot enough. It will melt a small amount in the center of the pot. Do you happen to remeber the wattage? Thanks in advance

[SlimTim]

Per my pal Da Google:

http://www.acehardwaresuperstore.com/fryers/11377.html?keyword=cooker

http://www.acehardwaresuperstore.com/fryers/7966.html?keyword=cooker

Neither of the above are the particular unit mentioned, but rather units with similar features and close in price.

Here are some units made by the same outfit above, but perhaps not the exact unit:

http://www.google.com/products/catalog?q=Outdoor+Cooker+Jet+Cooker+Package&hl=en&safe=on&client=firefox-a&cid=6140954138757115367&os=sellers

[selmerfan]

I just called my local Ace store - he can get the jet cooker in and charge me $34.99 for it with no shipping charges. Sweet! My wife is going to be grumpy, but I'll sell some lead to buy it. Then I can do a side-by-side with the Bass Pro Shops burner. :)

[selmerfan]

Should I get the SP1 or SP10? The SP10 looks like the same burner design as the Bass Pro cooker...

[SlimTim]

Good question. I really dunno, but will opine anyway. :p The SP-10 has a double leg design and a windscreen. I don't know that the windscreen matters, but it seems to me that it is built to hold a heftier load than the SP-1.

SlimTim

[selmerfan]

I ordered the SP-1 cooker. I have access to a junkyard where I can cut a 20" windscreen from a discarded water heater. :) The SP-10 looks to have the same burner as the Bass Pro Shops one I already have, I wanted to try something different.