Lyman's 'poetic licence'.

[JeffinNZ]

Team.

The other week I bought 600lb + of alloy and on collection the seller also gave me about 2000+ .224 projectiles cast in no.2 alloy or close to that. The bullets are Lyman 225415 and 225462. The thing is I have both of those moulds and the bullets I was given do not look like mine. This is a result of variations in the cherry cutters that Lyman has used over the years and the 225415 is often mentioned as a victim of this.

Here is a line up for conparison. L to R.

225415 from the trade, my 225415, 225462 from the trade, my 225462.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v505/JeffinNZ/Shooting%20stuff/224variations.jpg

Interesting to see the condition in the 'flesh' isn't it?

[crazy mark]

try the 311291 from the different years. They all look different, weight and diameter wise also.

[10x]

I have 2 225415 molds they east bullets that not quite match. One is .223 and one is .225 as well.

[220swiftfn]

The 454(2)424 and the 452423 had several different variations too, apparently much to the chagrin of the mold designer.

Dan

[Bradley]

I remember talking to a workman at Lyman decades ago. He said that they didn't have some cherries for moulds still being offered so a tool maker would look at a picture and make a new cherry. And that sometimes even though they had a cherry, they would still make a new cutter. Ended up with several different cherries for the same bullet. Sometimes the variations between what were suppose to be identical cherries would be quite substantial.

[geargnasher]

Yours look better, Jeff!

My favorite Lyman variant is the 429421 Keith semi-wadcutter. I think the first cherry might have met Keith's approval, but gawd, they made about twenty variants, some of which were so far off they should have had their own number.

Gear

[HARRYMPOPE]

the 225438 also varies also in nose shape with vintage,even omitting a lube groove sometimes.

HMP

[Von Gruff]

There was thread a while back with three different versions of the 287641 mould were noted.

Von Gruff.

[Doc Highwall]

Jeff, the 225462 from the trade looks like somebody milled off the top of the mould leaving very little of the gas check shank, and has a different nose profile.

[Jack Stanley]

Wow ! now that will get your attention huh?

Jack

[Shuz]

Yours look better, Jeff!

My favorite Lyman variant is the 429421 Keith semi-wadcutter. I think the first cherry might have met Keith's approval, but gawd, they made about twenty variants, some of which were so far off they should have had their own number.

Gear

I agree! I think I have at least 5 of the "varients"! Strange tho, they all shoot well!

[GLL]

As mentioned above the 454424 has been all over the map ! :(

Here are just the ones I own !

As gear pointed out the 429421 is even worse !

Jerry

All are IDEAL/LYMAN 454424 except the extreme left. It is a 452424.
http://www.fototime.com/C1BCE331F5E9000/orig.jpg

[Fritz D]

Here is my version of 225462 . . . my uncle bought this mould in the 60's. It's disappointing to see all the variance in the "same" moulds. You would think someone at Lyman would care.

[ColColt]

Yours look better, Jeff!

My favorite Lyman variant is the 429421 Keith semi-wadcutter. I think the first cherry might have met Keith's approval, but gawd, they made about twenty variants, some of which were so far off they should have had their own number.

Gear

Yep, this is what my 1970's mold looks like.

http://i180.photobucket.com/albums/x220/ColColt/Misc%20Stuff/_DEF3950.jpg

[geargnasher]

....and an old Ideal 429421 factory HP mould I got that was missing the pin.

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=15701&d=1252306757

Gear

[cbrick]

WOW Gear, that pin looks like it should be sticking out the base of the bullet. How did you get the sprue plate open with it sticking out? :holysheep

Rick

[GLL]

This is a newer 429421 that Buckshot HPd.
http://www.fototime.com/97B63752E35B25D/standard.jpg

It is quite different than this early IDEAL (1930’s ?) version.
http://www.fototime.com/E574E14FBE964F2/standard.jpg

http://www.fototime.com/98111A583CB6C02/standard.jpg

Jerry

[Ugluk]

That's all I needed to know. I've read that some Lymans cast small, but if I won't even know what bullet shape I'll get there's no reason to buy one of their molds.
I'll stick with Lee 6'cavs and custom GB jobs.
Thanks for the heads up.

[HangFireW8]

JeffinNZ,

I noticed the boolit on the left has a tapered base. This was a Guy Loverin innovation. It allowed the slip-on gas checks of the time to get a better bite, both in the sizer and in the bore.

Since the switch-over to press-on gas checks, there is little need to make this sort of base anymore. Not that there's any excuse for all the other variation.

[michiganvet]

@Fritz D, Got my mold in the late 60's and the boolit looks just like yours.

[Bret4207]

Here is my version of 225462 . . . my uncle bought this mould in the 60's. It's disappointing to see all the variance in the "same" moulds. You would think someone at Lyman would care.

That assumption has been the downfall of more than a few casters over the past years. It's my contention that Lyman DOESN'T care beyond the typical "Give them what we make, it's good enough." attitude of the mid 70's big three automakers.

[Mk42gunner]

That assumption has been the downfall of more than a few casters over the past years. It's my contention that Lyman DOESN'T care beyond the typical "Give them what we make, it's good enough." attitude of the mid 70's big three automakers.

That is the biggest reason I want to see a mold before paying for it-- to make sure my idea of what a boolit looks like and Lyman's are at least close to the same.

Robert

[mroliver77]

One would think a there would be a blueprint or at least a detailed drawing of the boolits that could, would, should be followed.

We give Miha a print. He gives it to his cherry maker. A cherry is cut SMALLER but with the proper contour. Miha cuts mould to drop .454" boolits when I order a .454" mould or you a .452" if that's what you order. Ain't that what blueprints are for?

Would it be any more work for Lyman to do it right?

[Char-Gar]

Yep...Lyman is sorta fickle that way.

[casterofboolits]

An additional problem at Lyman is that no one seems to know how to set the depth of the cherry into the mould block. I have several of the Lyman four cavity moulds with the same number, but various OAL. It's simple, just use a depth mic on a scrap block. I'm sure they must have a few!

I.E. Lyman #356634 09-130-TCPB (supposedly for 38 Super) two that drop at 130 grains, one at 135 grains.

[JeffinNZ]

An additional problem at Lyman is that no one seems to know how to set the depth of the cherry into the mould block. I have several of the Lyman four cavity moulds with the same number, but various OAL. It's simple, just use a depth mic on a scrap block. I'm sure they must have a few!

I.E. Lyman #356634 09-130-TCPB (supposedly for 38 Super) two that drop at 130 grains, one at 135 grains.

That is very evident on the 2 x 225462 bullets in my photo. Mine has a GC shank a long as a donkeys......well, you know.