Couple Loading Questions w/Cast

[HEAD0001]

I am interested in putting together a pretty good load for my 30-06 Encore rifle.

I bought an RCBS 180 grain GC'd mold. I want to work up a somewhat heavy load, and also a "Cat Sneeze" load.

I have loaded a good bit of straight walled rifle and revolver cartridges. But not alot of bottle neck cartridges.

My question is about the belling and crimping of bottle neck cartridges for a single shot rifle.

In the past I have noticed in my straight walled cartridges that there can be a bit of difficulty in loading if you don't apply a crimp to the case.

I was not sure whether I wanted to crimp the 30-06 cartridge or not?? What do you guys think about that??

What belling die works best for the 30-06?? And if I need a crimp I was thinking a taper crimp, or a Redding Profile crimp?? Is my logic right about those two types of crimps??

Any other good tips for reloading bottlenecked cartridges?? I am also going to start loading for the 22 Hornet also. So if there are any good tips for that cartrige as well?? Thanks, Tom.

[mooman76]

Lyman has a M die that will expand the neck. It's suppose to be real good but I have never used it. You also have to buy one for each caliber and sometimes more than one depending on the cartridge. Lee has a universal neck expander that that doesn't really expand the neck but flares the mouth, (like pistol dies do)of any cartridge 22-45 caliber. You don't need to crimp a single shot but you will need to flatten out that flared neck after loading and a slight crimp would do it and not hurt a thing.

[Tom W.]

I use the RCBS expander to load cast in my #1 and my Encore when I had one. Just flared the mouth barely enough to get the cast boolit in it, and don't crimp anything. If the boolits are snug enough so you can't move them by hand, a crimp generally isn't needed.

[462]

The Lyman M-die "expands", not "flares", the case mouth to just under boolit diameter, then adds a "step" that is just over boolit diameter. The step assures that the boolit enters the case squarely and in proper alignment to it. With a flared mouth, the boolit wobbles about and enters at an angle other than optimum.

Other than for the Winchester Model 94, I don't crimp bottleneck cartridges.

M-dies are available for each caliber, but you don't have to go that route. There is a short and long die body, and expander plugs for the various calibers. I use one die body and three plugs to load for six different calibers.

I have the Lee universal mouth flarer, but it just collects dust.

[adrians]

"Other than for the Winchester Model 94, I don't crimp bottleneck cartridges."

im with 462 ,i use 'M' die on my 45-70 trapdoor cases, 8mm, and 30cal.
i only crimp as 462 stated for my win 94 because of its tube fed and i don't want any boolits seated deeper during recoil.
in my humble opinion the M die is the way to go (for me anyhoo):evil::happy dance::twisted:

[smoked turkey]

I also use the 'M' die. I think uniformity from cartridge to cartridge as far as bullet or boolit tension within the case neck contributes to accuracy. The expander button actually uniforms the inside neck to achieve the same diameter from case to case. The step in the top end of the expander applies the small amount of neck flair in order to start the boolit on its path into the case. Without that the lead boolit can sometimes be shaved by the case neck which ofcourse you don't want. You want to put a very small amout of flair, just enough to allow a tiny part of the boolit base into the mouth of the case. It is easier to do than to talk about it as I just attempted to do. At the very end of the press stroke you want to lightly crimp the case to the boolit. As stated above if you push on the end of the boolit with a quite a bit of force and the boolit doesn't move downward into the case you have all the crimp needed.

[geargnasher]

The Lyman "M" die is a good choice for most people, and I recommend it often, although I usually do something else. I see little point in sizing a case neck for jacketed bullets (which most off-the-shelf standard dies do) and then stretching it back out again for cast boolit diameters, plus belling it.

My recommendation is to get an "M" die and properly expand your first run of cartridges through that particular rifle, and after they are fired once in it, use a bushing die to resize the neck only as much as you need for boolit retention. After sizing, only a slight flare is necesary, and that is easily accomplished with Lee universal flaring die (Lee calls it an "expander" for some reason, really a misnomer). The amount of sizing that needs to be done with the bushing die varies with the load and what the rifle likes, so it's hard to say what size would work best, most people get a range of bushings to go with the die. The bushing dies also need to be used with brass which has had the necks uniformed, or on brass that is very consistent in this area or your neck tension will vary as neck thickness does.

Yet another option, and I've found it to be a very good one, is to invest in one of Lee's collet-style neck-sizing dies. The neat thing about them is that you can adjust the amound of sizing done to the cases from none all the way down to the mandrel size (usually much smaller than you will need for cast). You don't have to fully size the necks to the mandrel, you can just "kiss" the necks with the collet to get only the amount of sizing you need, then bell the mouths and load away.

As far as crimp goes, some of the slower-burning ball powders can benefit from a little crimp, but usually if you seat the boolit to firmly contact the rifling upon chambering, no crimp other than to reduce the bellmouth enough to chamber is necessary in a single-shot.

Gear

[RobS]

+1 to Gear's comment on the Lee Collet dies for bottle neck cases.............have them for my rifles and they are excellent for cast boolit adjustments.

[leadman]

For the Encore you will want to seat your bullets just off the rifling to avoid any problems with the action locking up.
You don't say what alloy you are using but water-quenched wheel-weights generally work well with a good lube to 2,000 fps or so. Above that and everything has to be close to perfect to maintain accuracy. This will also take slower powders than loads around 1,500 to 2,000 fps. Best accuracy in my 30-06 rifles seems to be around 1,500 to 1,700 fps.
The Hornet is a great cast bullet shooter but takes attention to detail at a level much higher than the 30-06. I use linotype for my 22 cal bullets. Full factory velocity can be reached fairly
easily with linotype and a good lube. Accuracy is usually better when velocity is somewhat reduced. Be careful when working with the Hornet case as it is very thin and is ruined easily.

[daviddoo]

I am preparing to load cast boolits in 7.62 X 39 to be shot out of an AK47. Do I need to full length resize every time due to fact its being shot out of a semi-automatic? I m assuming that a crimp will be required due to the same fact and have a Lee factory crimp die for that. Any suggestions will be welcome.

[nicholst55]

I am preparing to load cast boolits in 7.62 X 39 to be shot out of an AK47. Do I need to full length resize every time due to fact its being shot out of a semi-automatic? I m assuming that a crimp will be required due to the same fact and have a Lee factory crimp die for that. Any suggestions will be welcome.

You will frequently encounter chambering problems with neck-sized brass in a gas gun. They may work fine a time or two, but eventually it will catch up with you. I full length size for all of my gas guns, every time.

[Larry Gibson]

HEAD0001

I am interested in putting together a pretty good load for my 30-06 Encore rifle.

I bought an RCBS 180 grain GC'd mold. I want to work up a somewhat heavy load, and also a "Cat Sneeze" load.

Suggest for the "heavy" load you use 4895. Use an alloy with a BHN of 16 - 18 for practice and targets. Start at 28 gr and use a 3/4 gr dacron filler. Work up in 1/2 gr increments to 34 gr. The rifle will tellyou which load it shoots the best, probably in the 1850 - 1950 fps range. For the "cat's sneeze" loads cast the bullets of dead soft lead + a little tin. A 40-1 alloy works very well. If you use harder alloys you can stick a bullet in the barrel. Use dedicated, well fire formed cases, start at 6 gr of Bullseye and work down in .3 gr increments until you get as loa "sneeze" as you want.

I have loaded a good bit of straight walled rifle and revolver cartridges. But not alot of bottle neck cartridges.

My question is about the belling and crimping of bottle neck cartridges for a single shot rifle.

In the past I have noticed in my straight walled cartridges that there can be a bit of difficulty in loading if you don't apply a crimp to the case.

I was not sure whether I wanted to crimp the 30-06 cartridge or not?? What do you guys think about that??

As mentioned an M-die is needed for cast bullets regardless of the action type. You don't need to fully crimp the case mouths but you'll want to adjust the seating die so the bell is removed from the case mouth if the chamber neck is tight. many times a seperate taper crimp die works best for that.

What belling die works best for the 30-06?? And if I need a crimp I was thinking a taper crimp, or a Redding Profile crimp?? Is my logic right about those two types of crimps??

The Lyman Long .30 M-die will work best if you size your bullets .309 or smaller. If you size the bullets .310 or .311 (my most often size for .30 cal cast bullets) then the .31 cal M-die is what to use. The taper crimp die will work best for your single shot rifle. However "best" is many times subjective as i've loaded many an '06 with cast bullets just using the standard die to straighten out the ccase mouth with complete satisfaction.

Any other good tips for reloading bottlenecked cartridges?? I am also going to start loading for the 22 Hornet also. So if there are any good tips for that cartrige as well??

[B]If you don't have the Lyman Cast Bullet Handbook (I prefer the 3rd edition) then you'll want to get it and study the information part. Lots of good info there. Lots of data for the '06 and the .22 Hornet. Do a search for Hornet data and read the articles in CastPics. A lot will depend on the .22 Hornet rifle you have and the twist rate.

Larry Gibson/B]

[daviddoo]

You will frequently encounter chambering problems with neck-sized brass in a gas gun. They may work fine a time or two, but eventually it will catch up with you. I full length size for all of my gas guns, every time.

Thanks for the info. Full size it is.