Let us get out of the dark ages!

[Fly]

Guy's I like most have used ajustable powder measure most of my life.I most
likley will till I dye.

But with that said it is not the best way to measure our black powder for
the most accurate shot.I have been testing homemade bp as any of you know
that follow this form.

I have found when weight from my measure can be off from measure to measure
when weighting it.I have even found some differance in a digial scale to a beam
type.

I would like you to read this info http://www.chuckhawks.com/blackpowder_volumetric.htm before your comment.

Now for the most part in the feild I will still use a powder measure if I use
store bought powder or my own corned (pressed). Thats what they did in
the day & I don't think for a 50 to 100 yard shot it makes a whole lot
of differance in hunting.

But if you want to get every thing that gun has then that's another story.

Fly:brokenima

[Baron von Trollwhack]

You will be ok using your own measure now that you know that everyone else's measure, and pour, or dip, or weight, is different.

Just don't borrow a measure for serious work.

BvT

[mooman76]

Sounded to me like it was just a long rant. Yes most of us know the measures are not exact but but by his own admittion they aren't exact by weight either because of moisture content. Consistancy is the key and knowing what your gun likes best. Even when we load smokeless, yes we weigh our charges but we dispense them by a volume measure after we figure out what the volume weighs. He may not like the manufactures stating 100gr max but what are they suppose to say id max? It isn't practical the weigh charges in the field and manufactures max(at least where MLs are concerned) are well bellow what safely be loaded. I did notice though that he offered no solution to the problem so how can he to criticize when he doesn't have an answer to the problem?

[RBak]

To this I can only say, I own four different scales...no need to go into make, model, and manufacturer but suffice to say they are all different, some older than others but still in good shape and still operable.

Having said that, I can say, with years of experience to back me up, that all that owning and using four different set of scales does is add to the confusion.

One scale will flat out lie while another will swear it is right, yet another will say they are both wrong....no matter what you do!

Have you ever tried weighing the exact same charge on the same scale, over and over, and over, and...you get the picture.
Have you ever noticed the difference? Albeit often small, that difference is sometimes there, and sometimes not. Same with volumetric chargers.

Randy Wakeman is always 'stirring the pot', there's nothing new about that. However, IMHO, he's once again preaching to the choir when it comes to the traditional mindset, and the few of us remaining that are still trying to play the game as it was once played. Meaning, in Wakemans terms, trying to make a very inefficient arm efficient, while using an inefficient propellant.

Deal with it, Wakeman!

Russ

[Fly]

Have you ever tried weighing the exact same charge on the same scale, over and over, and over, and...you get the picture.
Have you ever noticed the difference? Albeit often small, that difference is sometimes there, and sometimes not. Same with volumetric chargers

Russ you make some great & valid points.I do know that the black powder best competition
shooters do in fact weigh there loads as the smokless one do.

The only reason I'm, is for testing my home made stuff.I never gave it much thought till
I started testing.But it is fun messing with this stuff.

Fly

[northmn]

I have mentioned this before about commercial measures. For a pet load I calibrate them against a scale. I ahve one I use for my 25 squirrel gun that throws 20 grains set at about 22 grains. It is a pistol scale and only goes up to about 50 grains and is smaller diameter. Another point is that I also made a muzzle funnel for it out of a 22-250 case to make loading easier. You get a little less variation if the measure is smaller diameter. A consideration for small bores. The standard commercial scale going to 120 grains is good for about anything 40 cal and up. If you find a "pet load" its nice to have a measure to duplicate it. Also there is a difference in granulation from 3f to 2f.

DP

[Maven]

Fly & DP, I load almost exclusively by volume with an adjustable, brass Uncle Mike's measure and have calibrated it for Graf's/Wano FFg against a scale. [To make life simpler, I've also decided to stick with FFg only.] Now that I've run out of Graf's, I'm using Diamondback and should recalibrate the measure against the same scale. However, as I really don't do much BP cartridge reloading, I found that the Lee Perfect Powder Measure can be adjusted to throw a very consistent charge [of FFg] if you check it against a reliable scale. I saw a few of them in use at an Old Saratoga ML Club (near Saratoga, NY) shoot last year and they're sticklers for firing line safety. The Lee measure is just the thing for charging .45-70 empties.

[Fly]

I have that very same lee powder measure & never thought to use it for my BP.

Mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm thanks
Fly

[405]

Fly,
Rant or no, I agree with your original premise. I see a lot of lax, lingo common usage of phrases like, "I load by volume not by weight". That is fine, no problem when used in correct context. THE problem with the oversimplified cryptic language is it leaves too much room for interpretation.... especially for BP newbs. The communication problem is further compounded when going back and forth between BP and the various subs.

I don't load my muzzleloaders by scale weighing each charge- really no need to as long as each is thrown consistently. By the same token I do not throw in lingo like, " My best yadayayada roundball load for the 54 cal. Hawken is 85 gr FFg Goex, by volume". I actually do mean it is 85 gr.... not some number of cubic centimeters of volume! I do check and set my volumetric measures using a scale then mark them or make record the GRAIN WEIGHT they throw for a certain powder NOT what the VOLUME is in CUBIC CENTIMETERS.

I could go on about the use of gram weight units and scales for reloading but enough rant on this subject :)

[northmn]

This whole issue probably started with the popularity of BP substitutes that stipulate loading by equal volume to a charge of BP. It has created a compulsion among many to forget about the powder scales. One source for BP cartridges mentioned that they are best loaded by wieght to keep the compression equal. I have done so due to that source. However if I were to use a measure I would use a calibrated one. When I played with Pyrodex and 777 I calibrated my measure for a charge of BP and then used that same volume to get a equal weight for the subs. That was for a 45-70. Never did get the accuracy I got from BP so don't mess with them much. I remember a writer talking about using volume only saying nasty thing could happen using weight. True if you use 70 grains of 777 instead of 70 grains BP but not so using if you calibrate them. Problem with the subs as I gather is that you have to calibrate for every lot as they can differ. I calibrate a measure then load by volume for the ML's. Measuring powder is kind of an art in itself as I found that if I fill the measure, give it a tap and tehn retop it I get pretty consistant results. For smaller charges as in pistols or small bores I use a smaller diameter measure as they give less variation. My standard measure is a Traditions pistol measure. 2 grains, which is about common when measuring, is a 10% variation for my 25 as compared to 2.5% variation for the 80 grains my 50 likes. My 25 does like to give a vertical group. Larger ball tend to react less noticably to small variations.

DP

[Canuck Bob]

I'm fairly new but the variation in grain size from one can to the next is quite obvious. For precise long range work I think our BPCR shooters weigh. For my flintlock I just bought a few cans of powder and carefuy blended it so that it was one lot. I used metal bowls and funnels and grounded everything. Don't know if it helped but my measure throws a reasonable consistency and with a flintlock it still shoots better than me.

If I ever go percussion I will try to test the difference off a bench.