View Full Version : Sub Caliber Thoughts. .144 - .177

05-23-2011, 07:18 AM
I'll mention right off that I don't even dream of casting for this project.

I picked up a set of form and loading dies for a .14 Flea on a whim this weekend.

The .14 flea is a 32acp necked down to .14. It's a 6 die process that includes a neck ream. The die set includes the form dies for .17 flea but no loading or sizing die for the .17.

Does anyone have experience with loading subcaliber wildcats? RCBS makes dies, and I found reamers available, though I'd want to check with RCBS and Pacific to see if they're tools will work in cojunction. I've found reference to 4 different Fleas all based on 32acp.
I found information regarding a book written by Bill Eichelberger but I can't find a copy of the book available.

Does anyone know a good source for a barrel? I'm thinking that a 16.25" encore barrel (stubbed and rebarreled) would be just the ticket to play with this.
Anyone know of a good source for bullets? Tools?

Here's a pic of the formed (not reamed at the .177 stage so necks aren't pretty and not trimmed) next to a 375HH brass. These were formed with mixed 32acp that's been fired 3 or 4 times. I'm ordering some fresh new 32acp to do some testing.

Chicken Thief
05-23-2011, 09:24 AM
Here's something to get you started:


05-23-2011, 03:56 PM
Most of the data that I've looked over at SAUBIER.com so far is outdated. The vendors they refer to are gone and there's no actual information on the flea at all. Not much .14 info either. :(

05-23-2011, 05:20 PM
you might check at the varmint hunters magazine or the varmint hunters association. There are sub caliber shooters over there. not sure about the 14 though.

05-26-2011, 10:55 PM
i know where there may be a .14 cal mold for sale.it was made by Alton Jones of Portland Oregon for the 14-22 LR he made up way back when.


05-27-2011, 02:17 PM
The sheer oddity of such a mold must make the value move right up there.

Von Gruff
05-27-2011, 06:49 PM
Then dose anyone know of a 20 cal cast mould - shooter?

I shoot the 34gn Nosler "Shots" over 9gn Blue Dot for 2750 and great accuracy - performance as mid range loads in my 20 VarTarg and always wondered about a 40 - 45gn cast boolit.

Von Gruff.

05-28-2011, 07:43 PM
You might be able to find additional info. at the site below.

Chicken Thief
05-29-2011, 05:19 AM
Here's a Swedish site about .17" wildcats.


05-29-2011, 11:01 AM
Midway has their dogtown bullets in .17 Probably the cheapest you will find in that caliber. For the .14 I would suggest getting a set of form dies and using copper wire.

06-15-2011, 05:23 PM
I bought a bunch of those "dogtowns" for my .17-223 Ackley. Haven't shot any of them yet but maybe this summer after I get the .256 Win Contender Carbine up and running.

07-12-2011, 09:27 PM
Doc,its a problem finding good small bore barrels,their hard to rifle.I made up an 17 Ackley bee on a Ruger #1.Talked with Shaws they said they have to put their best man on the 17 barrels and they have to wait til the machinery and cutting oil is warm no 17 on monday.Mayby a large size birdshot could swaged into a boolet.Keep us posted on your project. Frank C.

07-18-2011, 11:21 PM
The folks at The Woodchuck Den are dedicated sub-bore specialists. I would check with them for sure.


07-19-2011, 03:54 AM
G'day from Downunder . :-)

I have two .14 squirrel contenders they are built on Pac-Nor super match grade stainless barrels one is a 12 inch pistol barrel and the second one is a 20 inch carbine barrel.
These barrels were made for me by Match Grade Machine as they have some .14 reamers in stock .
I sugest you give them a call and ask to speak with Kerry Stratton , he built mine and I highly recomend him .

Regards Paul . :-)

07-19-2011, 08:19 AM
I'm going to build a .14 on an encore stub. Pac-Nor is the only barrel maker that I've found that does .14 caliber.

Pacific has the reamer blue print for the .14 EICHELBERGER FLEA.

Then a new powder funnel, debur/chamfer, cleaning rod, jags, brushes, but it's a small price to pay for the prospect of shooting 10 gr bullets. LOL. It's hard to say without laughing. 10 Gr, I think a 50 cal gas checks weighs more than that.

I still need to find a copy of EICHELBERGER's book. Not a whole lot of load data available for a .144-32acp

07-23-2011, 11:05 AM
Every time I see or hear reference to the 14 caliber it reminds me of a "conversation" I had with a fellow some years back. We were discussing (?) the trend in military ammo towards smaller calibers when he informed me that the Army was working on a super high velocity 14 caliber round. There was some concern as to whether it would be legal under the Geneva Accords because it was so fast it would create a wound if it just came close to the target. He went on to say that the wound was caused by the air turbulence created by the extreme high velocity of the bullet. At that point I pulled my waders up as high as they would go and staggered away nearly as fast as one of his 14 caliber bullets.

Gawd! The things one hears on the way to the forum!!