A Day At The Range...Ugh!!!

[rbertalotto]

Took my Pedersoli Sharps and my Winchester 1885 BPCR (Japan) to the range today. Both in 45-70

I loaded up a bunch of different bullets all over RL-7 powder.

The bullet I was most interested in was the Ranch Dog, 425g, .460 with GC designed for tumble lube.......

The 1885 wears a 6-18 Burris scope for load development......
This is the group it shot at 100yds with the scope set at 6X

http://images108.fotki.com/v105/photos/2/36012/9730091/0521111245a-vi.jpg

And the exact same bullet, same powder charge, out of the Sharps with iron sights at 100 yds....

http://images112.fotki.com/v106/photos/2/36012/9730091/0521111245-vi.jpg

I tried various seating depths..........
Both barrels were slugged and both are .458..........

I tried other bullets that I cast myself and that I'd bought. The Sharps is always a more accurate rifle, even with iron sights......So I'm guessing that the scope I'm using on the 1885 might be to blame........A different scope will be tried tomorrow.

[firebrick43]

Sort of the old adage that you get what you pay for ?

I had a burris on a 597 Remington that would group at 3/4" at 50 yards
One day the groups started growing and my first thought was leading. After trying everything finally I was disgusted with the rifle and took the scope off and put it on my savage and it started shooting crappy.

Talking to others I understand this to be common with Burris, BSA, tasco, ECT current offerings(not that years ago they they actually made decent scopes.

I personally have started paying a little more for nikons and if I could afford it a leupold.

Most of my 22,s and sub hundred yard rifles I have switched to Williams peep sights and globe front sights.

[44man]

If the WW has the Badger barrel like my Browning, we are in the same company. 8 lands and grooves with shallow rifling.
My friends Pedersoli will out shoot it all day no matter what I do.
Burris can be bad too, never found one I like.

[BWelch47]

That is why we reload. Each gun is a law into itself. There are other bullet weights, powders, bullet designs, primers, cases to experimented with. You have a lifetime of fustration. Loading,testing,loading testing,loading,testing........................... ....:bigsmyl2::cbpour:

[44man]

That is why we reload. Each gun is a law into itself. There are other bullet weights, powders, bullet designs, primers, cases to experimented with. You have a lifetime of fustration. Loading,testing,loading testing,loading,testing........................... ....:bigsmyl2::cbpour:
I can make a revolver sit up and talk but just how many years of boolits, powders, and testing does it take for the WW or Browning?
I have gone from 300 to 560 gr, from .459" to .464" but my gunsmith friend keeps telling me to change the barrel.
Badger makes great barrels but not for every gun. They shine in the BFR's.

[rbertalotto]

One issue I think I'm having with the Winny is that the loads are too hot. I thought I was loading somewhere around 1300fps, I shot over my Ohler cronograph today and my "mild" loads were hitting 1600fps and a few loads with 325gr GC boolits were hitting over 2000fps!

I'm going to slow things down a bit and try again tomorrow.

I also have two new dies that showed up yesterday that I want to cast and try.

Lastly, anywhere I can find smokeless powder loads for the 500-550 grain boolits?

[geargnasher]

I also have two new dies that showed up yesterday that I want to cast and try. Dies? Or moulds?

Lastly, anywhere I can find smokeless powder loads for the 500-550 grain boolits?

Lyman Reloading Handbook #49 has three different loading levels for the 45/70. There are 7-8 powder listings for each boolit in Trapdoor, as well as full-house Ruger #1/#3 loadings. The 1886 loads are in-between, not showing anything bigger than 405 grains, but one could always extrapolate to get close for a starting load. LOTS of good data there is you study all three sets and compare pressures/velocities at different load levels with different powders.

MTGun44 just posted on another thread that he personally has never had good accuracy from RX7 in this cartridge, but I'll bet someone has. My .45/90 likes it with filler. It's up to you and your gun to find out!

Gear

[Three44s]

It looks like the path out of frustration is .............. more frustration! Ie. more load testing ..........

Best of luck.

Three 44s

[fishnbob]

Sort of the old adage that you get what you pay for ?

I had a burris on a 597 Remington that would group at 3/4" at 50 yards
One day the groups started growing and my first thought was leading. After trying everything finally I was disgusted with the rifle and took the scope off and put it on my savage and it started shooting crappy.

Talking to others I understand this to be common with Burris, BSA, tasco, ECT current offerings(not that years ago they they actually made decent scopes.

I personally have started paying a little more for nikons and if I could afford it a leupold.

Most of my 22,s and sub hundred yard rifles I have switched to Williams peep sights and globe front sights.


I would like to add Bushnell to your list of *** scopes. I have owned more than a dozen and finally came to the conclusion never buy one again. I have had good luck with the Tasco's but I wouldn't put them on anything with with heavy recoil. I would keep them under 6mm. I subscribe to the theory to buy a cheaper stocked grade rifle 'cause you can always make them more accurate and outfit it with the best glass money can buy 'cause you can't improve the accuracy of the scope. Love them old Weavers and Leupolds. Just my .02 cents worth.:wink:

[Jim]

I wouldn't make a pimple on Harry Pope's back side, but I'm just wonderin'. Could it be the rifle/ammo combo and not the scope?

[myfriendis410]

I've been working on load development for my Pedersoli Sharps 45-70 and have burned a bunch of powder in the last few weeks using the Lyman 457125 cast in ww and sized to .4580" using my own recipe lube in a Star. One of the things I have been looking for is low s.d. in velocity. I tried everything: over-powder card, filler, heavy crimp, hand-weighed bullets. Nothing worked. Finally two things: annealing the cases and slow powder. H4831 was giving me less than 10 fps variation with that bullet. I am loading:

520 gr. sized to .4580"
49.0 gr. H4831
Federal 215m
ww case,neck-sized & annealed. Trimmed to 2.090" with a heavy crimp.

Velocity: 1,240 fps out of a 32 inch barrel, +- 5 fps.

Accuracy is ho-hum right now (around 1 3/4"), but the rifle can really shoot. It's just a matter of finding the correct powder charge. I'm held up right now due to high winds; when it stops I'll be trying to fine tune that load as well as trying some RL22 and 7828ssc.

BTW: it fills the cases nicely and the empties fall out of the gun. Pressures are very low.

Disclaimer: I take NO responsibility for you blowing up your gun due to this or any other load I might list. You're welcome to do just as I did: start out VERY low and work up responsibly.

[1Shirt]

Women have bad hair days! Casters have bad range days. Keeps us coming back.
1Shirt!:coffee:

[BWelch47]

I can make a revolver sit up and talk but just how many years of boolits, powders, and testing does it take for the WW or Browning?
I have gone from 300 to 560 gr, from .459" to .464" but my gunsmith friend keeps telling me to change the barrel.
Badger makes great barrels but not for every gun. They shine in the BFR's.

It took me over 5yrs of testing before I arrived to the best load for my 4" model SW 29 using the Keith bullet. I used different powders, primers, moulds, sizers, and brass. Using 2400, RCBS mould 44-245-k(no longer listed), CCI 300 primers,sized .429 I was finally able to produce 6 shot groups under 1".:Luvcastboolits::Luvcastboolits::cast_boolits:

[44man]

It took me over 5yrs of testing before I arrived to the best load for my 4" model SW 29 using the Keith bullet. I used different powders, primers, moulds, sizers, and brass. Using 2400, RCBS mould 44-245-k(no longer listed), CCI 300 primers,sized .429 I was finally able to produce 6 shot groups under 1".:Luvcastboolits::Luvcastboolits::cast_boolits:
Great, but do I see a standard primer there? I am glad to see that. Very smart thinking! :)

[knifemaker]

My Pedersoli 1874 loved IMR-4198 powder and would shoot several different loads under 1 inch at 100 yards using that powder. 300 gr. Rem.HP using 41 gr. of powder. Hornady 350 Gr. FP using 43-44 gr. of Powder. Cast 350 gr. sized to .460 using 43 gr. of IMR-4198.
If your powder does not do the trick in the Pedersoli, give IMR-4198 a try. The loads I listed above are under 29,000 C.U.P. that Pedersoli limits the 1874 at for pressure that will not void their warranty.

[myfriendis410]

I've gotten good results with jacketed bullets and I4198 too. I4895 works well too. Can't help on the High Wall.

[rbertalotto]

Thanks folks for all the comments.............

My Pedersoli Sharps is not a problem. Seems anything I load in it shoots extremely well considering iron sights, a front post that is substantially larger than a NRA 100yd bulls eye, and a set of 58 year old eyes that can't see the rear sight! This gun is a real shooter.

The problem is the Winchester 1885 BPCR.........It simply isn't cooperating. I'm concerned about the chamber. There is a total lack of a throat. The rifling starts "hard" right at the neck of the case.

http://images57.fotki.com/v81/photos/2/36012/9654765/DSC_2730-vi.jpg
As you can see from this chamber cast. This situation does not allow me to seat some boolits with the brass in the crimp grove. If I do (example Ranch Dog 425g) then I can't chamber them. I might need to cut back a few pieces of brass to a non standard 45-70 trim length.

Or I'll rechamber the bugger with a more gradual throat like the Pedersoli has.

Comments?

[Maven]

"I might need to cut back a few pieces of brass to a non standard 45-70 trim length."

Roy, The new .45-70 ammo that Hornady sells uses brass that is measureably smaller than standard .45-70 brass, so you may not need to trim it to fit that rifle.

[rbertalotto]

Thanks!

[Chicken Thief]

Get your smith to run a standard 45-70 reamer through your Winnie!
That'll give you decent freebore before you get some serious fits;-)