Flintlock questions

[Jim]

Been ponderin' a flint lock for a long time. What I know about them wouldn't fill a thimble. Can you guys help me with some info?

Is it possible to run one on synthetic powder like Hodgdon's Triple seven?

Is it possible to run one on a single grade of powder? (as opposed to having priming powder and propellant)

If I bought one, I would probably order a Lyman GPR in left hand(I'm wrong handed!) .54 caliber as money is an issue. Any other suggestions in the same price range?

I know there are some knowledgeable flinter shooters here and that's why I came to y'all with this.

Thanks!

[Ajax]

1. From what i have heard subs are a no-no in flintlocks.
2. Yes lots of people use 3F powder in the tube and in the pan with great effect.
3. Lyman makes a great gun, that being said if you have a mind to tinker you can get a kit for less and build it yourself. Also Lyman makes a GPR in kit form also that is cheaper as well.
If you want to chat about it ask me in chat i have built the Great Plains Rifle kit.
Andy

[northmn]

At one time Pyrodex advertisd that one should load a black powder charge of about 10 grains under the main charge to get decent ignition with a flintlock. As I do no like any of the subs in a percussion I avoid them like the plague in my flintlocks. Order a supply of black powder and you will be happy.
Another item you will need to shoot a flintlock is a good flint. Forget about the sporting goods cut flints and order some from a supplier like Track of the Wolf. Rich Pierce Rpierce@dom.wustl.edu knaps out excellent flints at a fair price. Priming powder has been made in non metal bowls morter and pestle style. Just don't try to make too much at once. I have seen arguements about the use of 3f powder as primer, but personally prefer 4f. I do have one rifle that needs lock work as 4f dribbles out of the pan when I walk with it. On deer stand I reprime with 4f. Also you will need a good vent pick. One can be made out of brass and some use bird feathers. A steel one can wear out the touch hole fairly quickly.
As to the Lyman rifle, I have no first ahnd experience with it as I build my own rifles.

DP

[missionary5155]

Good morning
Yes !! Get a flinter ! You really owe it to yourself to get the experience.
My dad was a flinter and so am I. They are well worth the learning curve and there are enough experienced fellers about to get you going without alot of tears.
· f will fire all my flinters.. but I buy a can of 4F whenever I see one. I have about a 1/4 can in supply and that will last a very long time. But if I ever run out 3F is everywhere BP is sold.
Get a good lock. Lymans is an OK lock. and for starting out will take care of you a long time.
I bought a can of Kasenite years ago and all my frizzens get treated before I fire them unless it is a high end lock which was already treated. Takes 15 minutes and is well worth the time. A new Lyman frizzen will generally spark good but slowly you will cut through the case hardening and the good spark will fade away. But it just comes with the pachage.
Loading is no big deal... just plan on always using BP and you will have many happy years of shooting / hunting.
Mike in Peru

[Hanshi]

I'm a flint shooter almost exclusively. A flinter needs black powder, and while I prime with 4F, 3F works just fine when I use it. Avoid the subs like the plague.

[Dan Cash]

I purchased a .54 Lyman flint lock Great Plains rifle some years ago and am very dissatisfied with it for the following reasons:
* powder leaked bewteen lock plate and barrel; a situation waiting to blow up in my face;
* pan cover did not mate with pan and leaked priming powder all over;
* 1:48 twist is too fast for round ball and too slow for pickett bullets.

Save your money on the Lyman. A Thompson Center might be better, I don't know but it would be hard pressed to be worse. One of these days, I am going to have another flinter but will probably build it myself.

[Ajax]

If I am not mistaken the 1:32 barrel is the GPH (great plains hunter) the GPR is 1:60.


Andy

[nanuk]

If I bought one, I would probably order a Lyman GPR in left hand(I'm wrong handed!) .54 caliber as money is an issue. Any other suggestions in the same price range?
Thanks!

Only the Wrong Handed are in their Right Minds!

[northmn]

I purchased a .54 Lyman flint lock Great Plains rifle some years ago and am very dissatisfied with it for the following reasons:
* powder leaked bewteen lock plate and barrel; a situation waiting to blow up in my face;
* pan cover did not mate with pan and leaked priming powder all over;
* 1:48 twist is too fast for round ball and too slow for pickett bullets.

Save your money on the Lyman. A Thompson Center might be better, I don't know but it would be hard pressed to be worse. One of these days, I am going to have another flinter but will probably build it myself.

If the powder leakes between the barrel and lock a little extra inletting is need to get a good fit. The pan cover not mating corectly is a problem but where I have that I use 3f as primer. Basically I have fixed a couple of these by use of Prussion blue and needle files. and working the fit down so they do not leak.
Lyman now seems to make a roundball barrel and a slug barrel. Considering the design of the rifle I would go roundball as the slim curved buttplate in a lighter rifle would kick the heck out of you with slugs.
The softenening of frizzens seems to plague both Lyman and TC. As mentioned they can be rehardened. Some just buy new frizzens. Kasenit will resurface them adequately. The old timers used to put bone meal or leather on the face and put clay around the whole thing and let them sit in wood coals for a bit, then throw them in water. Dixie used to have a recipe for doing this.

DP

[superscifi12]

I purchased a .54 Lyman flint lock Great Plains rifle some years ago and am very dissatisfied with it for the following reasons:
* powder leaked bewteen lock plate and barrel; a situation waiting to blow up in my face;
* pan cover did not mate with pan and leaked priming powder all over;
* 1:48 twist is too fast for round ball and too slow for pickett bullets.

Save your money on the Lyman. A Thompson Center might be better, I don't know but it would be hard pressed to be worse. One of these days, I am going to have another flinter but will probably build it myself.

I just put a kit together and had the fist two problems out of the box. But a couple of files, a couple of chisles and a knife. And Now it fits perfect, it took a couple of hours but not too hard....

As for the twist the GPR (great plains rifle) is 1:60 the GPH (great plains hunter) is a faster twist for sabot/minis.


To the OP,
You can run them on a single powder, I personally run it on 3f and 4f primer (.50 GPR)
As to subs, they require a higher ignition tempature then real black, I have heard but I don't like the idea of duplex load (a little black with sub) or real black primer and sub charge.(I don't have any subs nor have I ever so this is all hear-say)

[ktw]

Is it possible to run one on synthetic powder like Hodgdon's Triple seven?

Possible, but you won't like the results. I wouldn't consider it


Is it possible to run one on a single grade of powder? (as opposed to having priming powder and propellant)

I run FFFg for everything. 45 and 54 main charges, priming the 45. You may get slightly better results with FFg as the main charge in some cases, but I haven't found stocking it to be worth the expense of keeping two different powders on hand.

The only difference between 2,3 and 4 Fg is in the size of the grains. If you get a fine screen of the appropriate size you should be able to screen out a fair amount of FFFFg from a FFFg can. I've been satisfied priming with FFFg and haven't found buying or screening FFFFg for priming to be worth the trouble.



If I bought one, I would probably order a Lyman GPR in left hand(I'm wrong handed!) .54 caliber as money is an issue. Any other suggestions in the same price range?

I have a Lyman GPR but only in a caplock. I consider it to be a fine muzzeloader as a caplock, can't comment on it as a flintlock. My 45 flinter has an L&R lock. Buy the best lock you can afford. The quality of the lock is what will make or break your enjoyment of a flintlock rifle.

-ktw

[twotoescharlie]

I also shoot southpaw and have a LH lyman flinter. has been a good shooter so far. put a different touchhole liner in it, very fast ignition. happy with it.

TTC

[DIRT Farmer]

Jim it depends what you want to do with it. When playing woodsy campout games when much younger, my Brown Bess was loaded and primed from one horn. With a good flint it will light ffg with no problems. Chucking a .730 ball into a reactive target was a different game than I play today. Now I mainly shoot clay target games with a Trade Gun and on a hard crosser, consistant ignition makes the game much easier. Due to patterning requirements I use ffg in the charge and after reading the research now fill the pan leval full. I keep ffffg Goex in the shooting box for the days when conditions are a little off as it is glazed and Null B Swiss for the perfect days when moisture is not a problem. Does it make a differance? Since I have went to extreame anal retentivness, my scores have become very competeative, the differance may be in my head. Also the condition of the edge of the flint can vary ignition time.
Most production locks run fairly well, just as most production cars will run well. The management of the lock and flintwill be your most critical point. By the way the lock on the old Brown Bess is up for rebuild, The frizzen bolt and the hole in the frizzen are so worn that fffg will fall out if the gun is carried canted and the edges of the frizzen are sharp. There must be close to 100,000 shots with the gun.

[Dan Cash]

[QUOTE=superscifi12;1276897]I just put a kit together and had the fist two problems out of the box. But a couple of files, a couple of chisles and a knife. And Now it fits perfect, it took a couple of hours but not too hard....

As for the twist the GPR (great plains rifle) is 1:60 the GPH (great plains hunter) is a faster twist for sabot/minis.
QUOTE]

A kit is a kit; when I buy a finished rifle it should not need overhaul to make it safe or functional. FWIW, My rifle is 1:48.
Save your money and look elsewhere.

[Jim]

Thank you all for your responses. I think the best thing for me to do is stick with my caplock.

[coopieclan]

Guys,
I want to hear more about flintlock shooting.
I have been shooting percussion and like it.

I see flinters in films and demonstration videos. If I am serious about black powder I will have to get one eventually.

The "Pirates of the Caribbean 4" poster shows 2 pistols one is reversed or both are double barrels what is that?

Also I am fascinated by matchlocks and wheellocks too.
I doubt I'll ever get my hands on...

[DIRT Farmer]

I have a match lock on my wish list. They do have a certen coolness factor.
Jim I hope we did not scare you off. I started shooting flint shotgun because the scores were obtainable if I could figure how to get consistant ignition speed. I listened to a lot of theroy that had no basis and slowed the learning a lot. The flinter is more reliable than a caplock if the operator does their part. The percussion cap did not kill flint, the fixed cartridge did. For the military who wanted to take a raw recruit and have cannon fodder the cap reduced the time to train.
Coopieclan there are some shooters I know in NYS who use flint to compete, most would be willing to help you start .

[northmn]

Up into the 1840's the flintlock was a common trade item for the western fur trade. Percussion did not take over over night. A flintlock Hawken for instance, would be extremely rare as the vast majority were made in percussion. No one can really say that on this date a particular ignition type took over as percussion ML's were built into the cartridge period. Hinton in his book on the Golden Age of Shotgunning talked about the debates over cartridge vs muzzleloading shotguns.
One club I used to shoot at quit sponsoring a flintlock only event as the flintlock shooters were winning in other events anyway. As a rule the better shots would switch to flintlock. When I shot either, I found little difference in scores between percussion and flint. In a rifle one learned to "follow through" which compensated for the inconsistant ignition times. Mostly a flintlock can be made to go off fairly fast, but will sometimes goof off on you, especially if allowed to foul too much from a lot of shooting.
The snaphaunce was a little more reliable than the flinlock and worked something like a modern cigaret lighter but was too costly to make and a bit fragile. The matchlock was not really all that practical of a weapon for normal use as there were issues with keeping the cord lit. Imagine sitting in a deer stand and maintaining one. They would be fun to play with, but I never had enough ambition to go through all the hassle to make one.

DP

[waksupi]

The snaphaunce was a little more reliable than the flinlock and worked something like a modern cigaret lighter but was too costly to make and a bit fragile. The matchlock was not really all that practical of a weapon for normal use as there were issues with keeping the cord lit. Imagine sitting in a deer stand and maintaining one. They would be fun to play with, but I never had enough ambition to go through all the hassle to make one.

DP

You have some of your ignition systems confused. The snaphaunce was not as reliable as a flintlock, although it functioned in much the same fashion. The cigarette lighter type would be the wheel lock, using a bit of pyrite for the spark.

[Jim]

.....Jim I hope we did not scare you off.....

Oh, no Sir! Absolutely not! I just gave this whole subject a lot of thought and decided the best thing for me to do is stick with what I have and what I know.

[northmn]

You have some of your ignition systems confused. The snaphaunce was not as reliable as a flintlock, although it functioned in much the same fashion. The cigarette lighter type would be the wheel lock, using a bit of pyrite for the spark.

Memory is not as accurate as it could be. I remember the pictures I have seen of them.

DP

[Dean D.]

Jim, the best advice I could give you is to keep your interest in flintlocks alive but save your money to buy a good one to start with!

I went down the GPR road and while not totally unsatisfied I rarely shoot it now that I have a good flintlock. The two things I was unhappy with on the GPR was the lock and how barrel heavy it is. The lock can be replaced with a drop-in lock from L&R but that will add another $130 to the cost. A good flinter will cost you at least twice the price of the Lyman (or other brands) but it will be money well spent IMHO.

Lots of chat regulars like Ric and Steve who can answer any question you might have! ;) :)

[coopieclan]

" snaphaunce "

W0W!