Best powders?

[fiatmom]

I was going to buy a case of powder, and I wanted an opinion on which to buy.
Crater has Elephant , Swiss, DIAMONDBACK, SCHUETZEN, and wano powders.
I have read that Swiss is the best, but is it worth the cost. I can also get Goex localy but it costs $21 a pound.

[GMW]

If you are planning on buying a full case, you might want to pay the hazmat fee and order online. I shoot Goex Express 2f in my 45-70 and regular Goex 2f and 3f in my flintlocks. Buying by the case equals $16 per can of Goex Express and $12 per can of regular Goex. I order from J&J Pyrotechnics, in Moscow PA.

[lkydvl]

Try several cans of each. Most places will let you do so. Then you can see what works best for you and next time order a full case of that. You can always sell off the remnants of the powder(s) that you don't like to other shooters and recoup the costs or even make a little.

Andre`

[cajun shooter]

You have left out a lot of information that is needed to give you the best answer. If you are shooting SASS matches then buy the Diamondback as it works very well in this sport. If you intend to shoot the Sillywets then you should buy the Swiss, Goex Express or Cartridge if you can find them and also the Schutzen. If you need the very best that your guns can deliver then buy the top powders. If you are shooting at 100 yards or less and just plinking then any powder will work. One other thing is that you should look at the Powder Inc. site as the prices are with shipping and Hazmat included and the Diamondback is about $9 a pound or so. I 've noticed that you have asked a few questions on the forum that tells me you are a newbie. You should read all you can find on Black Powder, a few good basic books like the one from Mike Venturino and Steve Garbe. It is called the BP Cartridge Reloading Primer and may be purchased from Amazon or SPG's sites. Another is Black Powder Handbook by Sam Fadala 5th Edition. If you find the 4th on Amazon for a reduced price then buy it. We all were new at this thing at one time and needed help. If I was to decide to start shooting PP bullets then I would have to read and ask questions to learn the process. You never know so much that someone may help you with information one day. Welcome to the world of BP. Use the real BP and let the lazy people have the subs.

[montana_charlie]

you intend to shoot the Sillywets then you should buy the Swiss, Goex Express or Cartridge if you can find them.
Goex has discontinued the Cartridge and Express powders. Developing a 'good load' with either of them would be rather pointless unless you can find enough (now) to last you the rest of your life.
CM

[Don McDowell]

Of the powders you've listed I'ld go with the Shuetzen. It's a clean burning powder that delivers plenty of accuracy.
Elephant is out of production , and while it can be accurate is about as dirty nasty filthy fouling a powder as was ever made.
Swiss is both over rated and over priced.
I have no experience with Diamondback, but from the info I've got from folks that have shot it, it's Elephant pardeaux..
You might want to take a look at getting some KIK from Powder Inc. The stuff is clean burning and delivers good accuracy and velocity, and by the case is about 300$ less than Swiss, and a dollar or more a pound cheaper than Schuetzen.

[cajun shooter]

The reason I posted the Goex Cartridge MC is that Powder Inc and a few others are sitting on several hundred pounds. I think that not only could a load be worked up but enough ammo loaded to keep shooting for years to come. By the way, I did some research before I posted my answer as opposed to you taking a guess from what you have heard.

[montana_charlie]

you should buy the Swiss, Goex Express or Cartridge if you can find them
That doesn't sound like the product of any research into remaining stocks of those powders. It also doesn't tell the man where he can find 'hundreds of pounds' to last him for years.
Sure, you mentioned Powder Inc., but that was to send him after Diamondback.

Had you provided ANY of your 'researched' information, I would not have felt a need to post at all.

CM

[NickSS]

I have tried all the powders you mention except Dimondback and a couple that your have not mentioed as well. You can get good accurate loads with all of them. I believe Swiss id over priced but an excellet powder. I like Shutzen and use it a lot. I also use a lot of regular GOEX and have had good luck with it over the years.

[cajun shooter]

MC, You have proven again that you will be correct no matter what a person does or says. And I will again allow you to do your little jumping up and down school yard dance proclaiming victory. As the man said, never argue with fools as they will beat you with experience.

[montana_charlie]

MC, You have proven again that you will be correct no matter what
And, what have you proven, Sir?
CM

[John Boy]

Fiat, what do you plan to use the black powder for?
Hunting - Target Shooting (Long Range), say out to 1000yds, Plinking, out to 100yds, Cowboy Action, etc. Also what caliber rifle(s) are you going to shoot the powder with?
Also, how often do you or will you shoot the black powder? Finally, where you live, is it humid or dry climate?
These are all factors to consider for the Best powders?

[Lead pot]

Over the last four weeks I shot up 15 pounds of 1.5 Kik and 5# of 1F kik and 5# of 2F Diamond and also 2F kik in various calibers working up loads and looking for a replacement of Goex EXP.
The 2F diamond does not shoot bad at all and the fouling is moist enough to be able to work with it and it is shooting some fine groups but the bore is dark with some shine showing through and it is a slower powder, but it shoots good in the .44-90 BN and the .50-90. Today I had 5 rounds loaded with the 2F Diamond in the .45-90 and it stayed under 4" at 200 yards, not bad for a first try using it in the .45. It shoots better in the bottle necked .44 but that cartridge seems to like the slower powder better shot from a 1/19 twist barrel.

The 2F KIK I gave up on in the .44-90 for now, I just cant get it to settle down in that bottle necked case. In the limited use in the .45-70 it is doing fine.
The 1F KIK and the 1.5 KIK is doing very good in the .44 and the .45-90 also in the .50-90.
The 1.5 especially in the .45-90 and the .44-90 is doing very good but the discontinued 1FG Goex Express at this point was better for the .44-90 and the .50-90 but I shot that powder 4 to 5 cases a year since it came on the market, but it's gone and it's time to look for a replacement.
Today I got a split case of 1.5 KIK and 3F kik, and the fun continues:bigsmyl2:

[fiatmom]

I will be shooting a Shiloh Sharps in 45-70 here in Pittsburgh PA. . So far this year it is humid sort of typical for this area. I would like to shoot up to 400 yards which is the longest range I can get on my property. The tighter the groups the better, I would hope the rifle shoots better than me.I will be using the Lyman 530 gr mold #xxx135 ( I think). The frequency will depend on time. I will also be shooting a 45-70 Springfield, 50-70 rolling block, 56-50 Spencer, 50cal Hawkins, 45 cal PA rifle, and various pistols. My primary shooting will be done with the cartridge rifles. I believe 2 f would work best, what is your opinion?

[Lead pot]

The 2F will be fine in the .45-70 as good as the nut behind the butplate can shoot.
Dont know anything about a 56-50 and I dont shoot the .50-70. for the front stuffers I like the 1FG, hand guns the 3F.

[John Boy]

Fiat, with your various calibers this is my opinion:
Order the currently being tested 2010 lot of KIK by BPCR shooters in a split case of
5 cans - Fg (50-70 rolling block, 56-50 Spencer, 50cal Hawkins)
10 cans - 1.5Fg
10 cans - FFg
The new lot of KIK is showing promising signs of being the 'Go To' powder to replace the discontinued Goex Cartridge and Express. Possibility to replace Swiss as a cost savings.

The new KIK produces good velocities - folks have shot long shot strings with no bore cleaning and no degradation in accuracy, the powder appears to be reformulated with improved processing, the powder is dense and the it is uniform in the grain ratios among the 3 grades. The price savings is good also

I have a split case and to date shot the 1.5 and FFg in a 38-55 (500m), 45-70 (200yds) and 45-90 (1000yds). Next testing will be the Fg in a 50-70 and the 1.5 in a 43 Spanish

[Don McDowell]

Given your list of rifles, I'ld go with 1.5 for the cartridge guns and 2f for the muzzleloaders.

[Desert Pete]

Shooting 45-90 with a 535 grain bullet out of an old NEI mold. My stash of powder is about empty and needs to be replenished.

Typical ranges are between 700 and 1000 yards.

My choices seem to be between Swiss (spendy) or Schuetzen. I have shot some Swiss that has been accurate and clean burning. I am not sure it is worth the premium price though.

Those who have done serious testing of powders claim that Swiss is about 10 moa flatter at 1000 yards. That's a lot! Again, is it worth the extra price??

If Schuetzen is consistent, I can just dial in the extra 10 minutes and be done with it.

Does anyone have any experience shooting it at longer distances?

[Don McDowell]

Yes Schuetzen works fine at any range you can build a load for . It's pretty clean shooting and gives similar velocity to Goex 3f in equal charge weights.
KIK is about a dollar cheaper than Schuetzen, and what I've shot of it so far is a cleaner and softer fouling than Schuetzen or Swiss.

[Hednign]

Over here in Norway we use only two brands. Swiss and Wano. Swiss is 10-15% hotter than Wano. Wano gives a softer fouling though. I use Wano in all my percussion firearms and revolvers. Swiss for long range and whenever maximum power is wanted.

In a 45-90 I found that 90 grs of Wano 2p grouped just aswell as 80 grs of Swiss 1 1/2. Point of impact the same. Wano seems to like heavy compression.

I would like to see a comparison made using the same load and rifle through a chronograph using all available brands.

[NickSS]

With your diversity of weapons I would say that you need at least two grades of powder. For the 45-70 and 50-70 and ML rifles for heavy loads you want 1.5 or 2FFG powder. For the 5650 Spencer and hand guns you want FFFG. I have used KIKs and it is a good hot powder and next time I need some powder for my cartridge rifles I may try some of their 1.5FG powder to see how it works. There is nothing wrong with plain GOEX either. For many years that stuff was all you could get and I have shot some really good scores clean out to 1200 yards with GOEX FFG in a 45-70. Today there is a bigger selection and some powders have advantages like more velocity per grain and moister fouling and less fouling. You just need to select something that will work for you and your budget.

[mustanggt]

I've just done a search for KIK powder. Here's a link you may be able to gleen some info from. http://www.norwestcompany.com/comparison.htm