Lube twice?

[BMWrider]

Brand new boolit caster here. My Lee furnace, 9mm (TL) mold, Lee sizer (0.356), etc. arrived from Midway USA around noon yesterday and I wasted no time diving into the hobby. By 5:30 PM, I had smelted a bunch of wheel weights and cast ~600 boolits. I lubed them with Alox last evening and sized them all tonight. (Already, I really don't care for the Alox mess and am thinking I need a Star Lube Sizer and appropriate mold). Anyway, do I need to lube the boolits again after they've been through the Lee Sizer?

[MT Gianni]

Yes, the coating you applied was removed from the bearing surfaces by sizing them. Welcome to the silver stream though 9mm is a hard place to start.

[jhalcott]

Some say yes others say no! I tried it both ways and DID get better accuracy with one bullet and worse with another. The bad one was a TL .358 mold ,the good one is a Lyman .30 cal. I take the time/effort to STAND the bullets up on their bases on a sheet of wax paper. It takes over night for the lube to dry.

[BMWrider]

I take the time/effort to STAND the bullets up on their bases on a sheet of wax paper. It takes over night for the lube to dry.

Did exactly that last night (it was a sight for the anal retentive, using old ammo holders to line up the boolits like legions of soldiers). I just hate the Alox on my hands - had to use Goo Gone to get it off and was still digging it out from under my nails this morning. The boolits look good, will lube again and push them through my STI Trojan this weekend.

[BMWrider]

Is it possible to use some Hornady One Shot Case Lube for sizing and then lube with the Alox afterward? That way I only have to deal with with the Alox mess once.

[Beagler]

Is it possible to use some Hornady One Shot Case Lube for sizing and then the Alox afterward? That way I only have to mess with the Alox once.

I had the same idea for when I crimp on the checks then the alox but havent tried it yet

[geargnasher]

If you use Lee Liquid Alox, please try doing this, it solved all the problems with sticky, long dry time, gummy seaters, etc.: http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?t=67654

Because they dry in less than an hour with this method, I always use two coats. VERY LIGHT COATS. You aren't trying to fill the grooves like conventional lube, the LLA works just on the surface of the lead, and has a differnt dynamic than we believe conventional lubes do.

GEar

[steg]

Thats a great article, but as yet I can't find any JPW anywhere, I should have saved some form the GI parties in basic training, LOL...........steg

[MikeS]

To answer the question about Hornady's One Shot, Yes, you can absolutely use it for the first go around. But remember to let it dry before sizing the boolits. Also, be sure you shake the can really well before spraying, then let them sit for maybe a half hour or more before sizing them. I mixed my LLA with some Hoppe's #9 and that cut down on the drying time required, and the boolits come out really nicely. It sounds like you might have used too much LLA when you did your initial lube, that's a common error new comers make. Checkout the thread Gear gave you a link to, lots of good info there!

[MtGun44]

Ahh, the joys of Mule Snot on your hands, and the front of your boolits, and the
smell is just . . . . . . . awful. Good luck with the 9mm - many have found that
sizing to .356 will get them tumbled boolits and needed to go to .357 or even .358
to kill the leading and keep them pointed end fwd.

No doubt it is a cheap way to go, and apparently the JPW Min Spirits is an improvement,
but I am not tempted.

Bill

[wallenba]

Try this. Fold a paper towel into a 1/4 square. Rub a finger glob (technical term) of vaseline onto it. Then lightly roll boolit between fingers after picking up a little vaseline each time before pushing through the sizing die. The boolit does not know the difference. Then tumble lube. Vaseline is an easier clean up.

[BMWrider]

Thats a great article, but as yet I can't find any JPW anywhere, I should have saved some form the GI parties in basic training.

I picked up a can of Johnson's paste wax (and a quart of odorless mineral spirits) at Ace Hardware on the way home from work. Will cook up the 45/45/10 recipe as soon as I can find an old pot, stirrer and funnel. I would imagine using one of the wife's nice pots would quickly result in bachelor status. Thanks for all the great advice!

[RobS]

TL a good handful then let them dry. When I use a push through sizing die, I run one dried TL boolit to 15 to 20 lube less so the sizing is easier (the number of lube less depends on how much you need to size them down). Some boolit designs will barely even touch the die so may not even need what I suggested when sizing.

I will agree that having a larger boolit may very well help you in regards to accuracy and/or leading problems; there are many threads proving it and I’ve been there and done it too. The 9mm is a tougher round to cast for since there are higher pressures associated with the cartridge and in addition to the possibilities of the case swaging down the boolit and in some instances even the crimp die can squeezing down on your perfectly sized projectile. A PB boolit being swaged is a concern with any cast boolit round but the 9mm seems to provide a caster/reloader the ultimate experience. :bigsmyl2:

[noylj]

Keep life simply: try as-cast bullets rather than sizing them. Lube with one or two very light coats of LLA. The stuff washes right off my hands, so I don't see any problem.
I put up to 500 bullets in a casserole pan, on their sides, and shuffle them around like dominoes for about a minute. If all bullets look wet/shiny, I am good to go. Otherwise, I add a little more LLA and shuffle them around until they are all wet/shiny looking (not amber/golden brown). I dump them out on a sheet of wax paper or aluminum foil. No anal-retentive OCD actions needed--there will be almost zero residue on the sheet since the coat was light.
I don't care about tacky bullets. They store for more than a year in boxes without any issue. When I load 'em, the loaded rounds go in an ammunition box. From there, they go into a magazine and get shot. At no time was there any problem related to tacky bullets (and, with a light coat, the bullets are not particularly tacky).
For 9mm, please slug your barrel and determine the groove diameter. 9x19 barrels can range from 0.355 to 0.362 and the lead bullet needs to be at least 0.001" larger than groove diameter. I have found that a couple of coats of LLA helps to reduce leading with bullets that are slightly too small in diameter.
You really can lead a bullet sizing die if you don't lube the bullets first?
Hard to believe that cold swaging a bullet can make it stick to a steel die.
You can also try Rooster Jacket (aqueous emulsion of wax) or thin some Johnson Paste Wax with more Mineral Spirits. Neither seemed as accurate for me as LLA, but both reduced/prevented leading (though, as I said, LLA is "magic" for undersized bullets).

[williamwaco]

I tried it both ways with .357, and 9mm. Not lubing AFTER sizing produced MASSIVE leading with both.

My question is: Is it really necessary to lube before sizing. I have tried it both ways and do not see any problem with it.

[prs]

I've experimented with two variations of the double Lee Liquid Alox (LLA) lubing, and I do believe it is easier to thru size if lubed. My typical method has been to use Lee case lube before sizing and that worked really well and did not interfere with LLA application later. Then, since my LLA has Johnson Paste Wax (JPW) and odorless mineral spritis; I figured why not just pre-tumble with a little glob of JPW. That worked too and did not seem to hinder the LLA coating later.

As a realted aside, I have also lubed with pure LLA and after it cures a few days I re-tumbled with plain JPW. When the JPW dried the tacky feeling LLA was covered and no longer tacky feeling.

As another aside, my LLA + JPW + mineral spirits is NOT cooked or heated. I just mixed them well and re-bottled. I see no advantage in heating the stinky stuff.

I really prefer working with traditional lube with traditional lube type boolits, but for doing losts of plinking boolits fast, its hard to beat the LLA method.

prs

[tomme boy]

I use Birchwood Gunstock wax. Used about 1/4 bottle of wax to one bottle of LLA and 1/2 bottle of MS. This is using a empty LLA bottle as a measure for the amounts. Mix it all up, then put in seperate bottles. I also put in 4, 00 buckshot in each bottle so I can shake it to mix well. Dries in about half an hour.

[geargnasher]

Prs, I have done the same thing by not cooking the mess. A long time ago, in college, a Chem-E friend of mine took an interest in my shooting hobby and my complaints of LLA being so sticky. He was/is a car buff, and quite knowledgeable in auto detailing/finish care. He suggested plain old Turtle wax and denatured alcohol to blend with the LLA to make it dry faster and be less tacky. I had to share my tiny reloading space with food and lots of engineering textbooks, so speedy drying and easy handling was paramount. After trying some things, I settled on adding about 30% Turtle wax and enough paint thinner to make it like 10W-30 engine oil. Worked very well, and I have used it off and on for the last 20 years for .38 Special loads. Then I joined this site, and Recluse started monkeying with the same concept of adding wax and a thinner, and he came up with 45/45/10. Main difference here is that he used heat to cook off the solvents in the JPW, which sounded kind of like a waste of time to me. While trying to get one particularly ornery gun to work with it, I ran out and made a fresh batch, THIS time HIS way. I have to say that it worked better all around. Something happens when you cook the LLA and the JPW together for a while that just doesn't happen with solvent action alone. To anyone trying it, I'd sure recommend cooking it and re-diluting it.

Gear

[HARRYMPOPE]

I tried it both ways with .357, and 9mm. Not lubing AFTER sizing produced MASSIVE leading with both.

My question is: Is it really necessary to lube before sizing. I have tried it both ways and do not see any problem with it.

i size with the push through without lube then LLA later in 30 calibers with good luck.I dont take a .316 and push it down to .308 sans lube as i would wipe out the grooves but a .312-.313 GC in a .311 die works well and the resistance without the lube helps set the GC square i believe.
I put the sized bullets in a container and heat them with a blow dryer and put a blob of LLA on them when hot.The heat makes it a bit lumpy if over applied,but they are ready to handle sooner.

HMP

[BMWrider]

Re-lubed (post sizing) last night with the 45/45/10 recipe and am ready to start reloading. Thanks for all the help. Is this obsessive-compulsive drying method curable? :bigsmyl2:

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2045/5742614195_b6d9153a72_b.jpg

[RobS]

OCD at its finest. [smilie=l: