Big Bullet Baloney?

[Spartacus]

Anyone read John Taffin's Big Bullet Baloney article in the May/June American Handgunner?

It is an article on the foolishness of using those extra heavy bullets in your handguns. How they do you absolutely no good as far as speed, penetration and range and will do harm to your revolver.

Just wondering what y'all thought about this.

[MtGun44]

If Elmer wanted you to have a boolit heavier than 250 gr for a .44 Mag, he would have
issued you one. . . . . .

Naw, just kidding. I find that the normal weights seem to work pretty well, exiting on
most game and accurate. Not sure I really see the need, but heck - it's still a free country
the rest of the week.

Bill

[steg]

I haven't read the article, but I will say that a few months ago I had a H&G 141 wadcutter .38 caliber mold recut and using by gosh and by golly math trying for a 200 Gr RFN, they cast at 195 Gr. I enjoy shooting these in my security six, and puma in .357 mag, it does tend to a barrel flip a little in the security six, and I also use them in my CC S&W airweight .38, i don't use really hot loads in any of my guns. I really can't see any problem using these or if you would consider them as being heavy boolits...........................steg

[looseprojectile]

that can't seem to cast a boolit that I would not reject.
His pictures of cast boolits show several defects that any dedicated caster would be ashamed of. In my opinion he don't cast any keepers. He never did catch on to how to make softnose casts.
As far as heavy boolits are concerned I am with MtGun44.
Ranch Dog 35s and 44s are heavy enough for me.
If it feels good do it.

Life is good

[fredj338]

There probably is some merit against the ultra heavy for caliber bullets in handguns. Heavier bullets, more recoil, more wear on the mechanism. I have little use for anything heavier than 300gr in a 44mag or heavy 45colt.

[Tom W.]

I've fired a few 300 gr. from the .45 Colt Blackhawk, but prefer the RCBS 270 SAA boolit by far. I'll also shoot the RCBS 255gr miscut mold that I have. It's mighty accurate, too. In my SRH I'll shoot the Lee 310 gr boolit or the RCBS 245 gr plain base boolit. I have loaded some of the 270 SAA boolits in my .454, but as of yet haven't tried them. I normally shoot the Lee 300 gr, and had grand accuracy from some 300 gr RCBS boolits that a friend in Ak. sent me. I don't see a need for anything heavier.

as for wrinkled boolits, if the base is good and I just want to plink, and if they aren't too ugly, they usually shoot pretty well.

[Crusty Deary Ol'Coot]

There is a little something to be said for the comment of ware with the heavies.

Using 325 and 310gr boolits in a RUGER BlackHawk, I did experience some damage to the cylinder pin (base pin) and the spring loaded pin keeper.

Never had the problem before using the heavies.

I currently shoot a RUGER RedHawk, and it just takes a lick'in and keeps on ticking with a 310gr LBT/WFN giving a tad over 1300fps out of a 5.5" barrel.

Keep em coming!

Crusty Deary Ol'Coot

[Link23]

i shoot the LEE 310 out of my Rossi 44 mag with Very good results, im getting around 1500-1600FPS with my 20 inch carbine
Link23

i can tell you they make a kentucky white tail do a back flip before it hits the ground when you hit him at 70 yards

[35remington]

None of the bullet weights mentioned by the previous respondents of this thread are of the weight class John was talking about. He's against the bullets that are substantially heavier than that.

[Dutch4122]

JMHO, but I do subscribe to the "it's your gun so shoot whatever bullet you want in it" mindset. Of course, some boolit weights are just totally impractical for any cartridge. If a handloader can't figure that out on his own then maybe he should be prepared to pay for the repairs to "abused" equipment.

[MT Gianni]

I have read that John Taffin has had hand problems for the last few years. He probably has personal experience he wants to share.

[MtGun44]

IIRC, he has pounded his wrist bones into oblivion with ultra hot loads, and has a lot of
pain because of it. I think in some of his articles he brings in some other shooters to do
some of the heavy recoil work. John is like the rest of us, not getting any younger and I
think he pays for abusing his hands and wrists over the years.

Might be a lesson there.

Bill

[geargnasher]

There is, Bill, there is.

Gear

[btroj]

I no longer enjoy hot loads in my 45 Colt so I don't shoot them in it. Pain is not fun.

Brad

[bbqncigars]

I've been on a couple of handgun forums that Lee Jurras regularly participated on. Lee stated that he couldn't shoot the stout loads anymore because of the cumulative wear/tear on hands and wrists. I only shoot 'mega' loads in handguns that will slide in the hands, and that, rarely. I got enough constant pain below the waist to risk that in my hands.

[troy_mclure]

i prefer a "heavier"(than modern versions) round in my 10mm, the original 200gr.

i believe there is a place for heavier than norm bullets/boolits, just like i believe there is a place for lighter than norm bullets/boolits.

[Blackwater]

Fellas, I guess I'm just a dumb redneck, but I don't recall anyone claiming that the heavier/slower bullets created better "cavitation," which Taffin has clearly indicated in his writings and his book is the standard by which he judges handgun loads, than the lighter/faster stuff. It's an apples and oranges question if ya' ask me, which of course nobody has.

Light/fast/quick expanding bullets kill lighter game quicker, no doubt about it IME. The heavier/slower/deeper penetrating stuff works in an entirely different way, by cutting a sufficiently large hole to leak blood so as to get quickly lethal results on game. Two entirely different approaches, really, isn't it?

If I were going for grizzly bear with a .44 handgun, I'd deeply appreciate having the LBT type bullets so as to better assure me (nothing's "always" in shooting) of sufficient penetration to get to the vitals from most any angle. On the southern whitetails I hunt, I'd much prefer a quicker opening, faster bullet so more of the energy available from the bullet gets "dumped" inside the animal, tearing tissue and organs, rather than having it expended on the scenery beyond my quary. Just seems to me to be judicious to match the bullet to the game being sought, with consideration of the caliber used. I'd hedge my bets a bit with a .357 on deer by leaning at least slightly to the heavier end of its wt. range.

Some years back, a buddy shot about a 165 lb. buck in the rear end, hitting it squarely right between the hams with his 4" .44 Special S&W. He was using a 250 gr. Keith type bullet and 7.5 gr. of Unique. Can't recall the velocity, but it wasn't dawdling around much. The bullet exited the chest, and the deer took 2 or 3 bounds, fell and kicked its last. A light/fast/quick opening bullet would have failed miserably ON THAT SHOT.

40+ years experience has led me to conclude that it's good to have BOTH types of loads available for their respective applications. IMO, this kind of crappy article is just another version of the old "Let's you and him fight" type of articles that our glossy mags seem to think if just the ticket for the shooters in this "New Millenium." Maybe it's because most folks don't want to think, or gain experience any more, and want quick, pat answers to silly questions. When Elmer and Skeeter and the old timers wrote, they wrote about their EXPERIENCE, not their experimentations based on hypothetical assumptions, which is what the scientific method always starts with anyway. Experienced observation trumps theoretical experimentation ANY day, and while I value Taffin's experiments, I can't quite swallow the thesis that his is the ONLY way, or even the BEST way sometimes, to kill something with a handgun.

Nobody knows what shot he'll have when he strikes out on a hunt, but with some experience, he can guess fairly well what the liklihoods are, and not everyone takes rear end shots, too, so ALL of that has to be factored in. I quit having to kill something everytime I go out quite a few years ago now, and I've never taken a rear end shot at a deer with a rifle or a handgun. Just didn't seem proper, or "sporting" if you want to call it that. Therevore, and due to the fact that I hunt southern whitetails, which tend to run smaller than some of you guys' larger northern types, I lean toward the light fast stuff, though I like my Marlin Guide gun, too.

All these type arguments seem to be much ado about nothing, as ol' Shakespere termed it. Then too, I think a real HUNTER ought to be able to take deer of any size cleanly and efficiently with a .22 LR, and most people think that alone makes me crazy, so what do I know anyway???

This kind of article is why I stopped buying the glossy magazines years ago, unless one's got an article in it that I find interesting enough to make me pay for it for that one article. Yep. Much ado about nothing, IMHO.

[stubshaft]

There is a point, where the weight of the boolit gives you diminished returns. In my 454 I have loaded boolits from 185grs to 390grs. My usual hunting boolit is a 300gr LFN and since I have never been able to recover one in the many animals I have killed with it, it would appear to give good penetration. It shoots flat enough for the ranges I hunt at, so shooting something heaver would show no advantage.

[David2011]

Brad, I'm with you. Back in the early '80s it seemed like every pistol magazine had an article on the latest and greatest hot loads for the Ruger Blackhawk and Contender in .45 Colt. My buddy Mac and I had to try 'em all. I wasn't 30 yet and i pretty good shape. I got tendonitis so bad from the heavy recoil that I had to quit shooting pistols for about a year for it to heal. I no longer enjoy the pain. I do shoot some substantial loads in a Contender with a 44 Mag Super 14 barrel but that's a working gun, not so much a plinker in that caliber.

I did read Taffin's article on heavy bullets and I have to agree with his conclusions. Although he didn't mention this point, the bullets he was writing about are so long for caliber that standard twist rates would be inadequate. Seems like he was writing of bullets well over 350 grains for .44 and .45 calibers. He did discuss accuracy problems but leaned on the recoil issue more than the physical limitations of bullet length and twist rate. I read it at lunch today but didn't commit the bullet weights to memory. They were REALLY heavy, though.

David

[Lloyd Smale]

ive allways felt there was a point where any heavier did more to harm your load then to improve it. My rule of thumb has been 260s in the 41 320s in the 44 and 350s in the 45s I also thing theres a bottom end to weights that are useful. 200 in the 41 240 in the 44 and 250 in the 45. My biggest complaint with bullets on the heavy or light side of this isnt nessisarily how they do on game but more has to do with accuracy. In some cases they can be made to shoot but with stock twist rates it can be a challenge.

[Larry Gibson]

I must be a piker with magnum loads because I shoot 150 - 160 gr cast bullets in the .357, 175 - 210 gr cast bullets in the .41 and 200 - 270 gr cast bullets in the .44 Magnum. In 6 - 7.5" barreles I run all of them at 1400+ fps. I also usually cast them soft and HP them for hunting. I don't take Texas heart shots and I've failed to see a deer not die very quickly from a properly placed shot with any of them. I don't load magnum level loads in the .45 Colt because I don't have a revolver for those loads but a 250 - 260 gr Keith cast bullet at 800 - 900 fps will kill deer all day long. As to accuracy I've not found any difference between tose bullet weights and the heavier cast bullets at the practical ranges I use my iron sighted revolvers at for hunting or plinking/target shooting. Even with optics on the revolvers or the Contender I've not found any apreciable difference. Again, I'm a piker with handguns though so 2 - 3 moa at 100 yards is good enough for me.

Yes, many years ago I read Seyfried's article where he killed that water buff down in Australia with his customized ruger .45 Colt using heavy bullets which started this whole "heavy for caliber" bullet craze. I played with the heavies and found, for me anyways, they just slung more lead down range, kicked more and gave no real advantage on the deer, pigs, rocks, tin cans, sticks, pine cones and cow pies and assorted small varmints I was mostly shooting with my handguns. I suppose if I was to go hunting water buff with a revolver I might want a bigger bullet but I'd also put it in a rifle cartridge.......I've not found the "standard weight" cast bullets in the .357, .41 and .44 magnum revolver cartridges wanting for my use and after 40+ years my wrist, elbows and other joints don't hurt from shooting them.

Now I did kill a a very, very p*ssed off water buff with an M60 once but it took 196 rounds of 7.62 (the other 4 rounds went through the radiator.........) but that is another story.........

Larry Gibson

[MtGun44]

Good points, Blackwater. A friend uses .280s on Missouri deer. With 130ish 'blowup
bullets' his term is a "death ray" because if shot broadside in the lungs the bullet destroys
the whole lung in an instant, and they just drop. BUT if you try a long raking shot, and
pull it a tad into a ham - game over. Blow a chunk of meat up and the deer will run away
and not be found. He gave up on the blowup bullets moved up into the 140-160 range
with bullets that mushroom and either exit or are found against the far hide. No instant
kills, but no lost animals either. I've always preferred Hornadies or Nosler Partitions, so
have not personally used the thin skinned super expanders.

Bill

[44man]

I too love a little heavier boolit, but for once Taffin is right. Not very often, mind you! [smilie=s:
700 gr boolits in a .500 S&W?????
We will be conducting a test with 405 gr, .44 boolits this weekend to show the folly of too heavy. Accuracy at 50 yards and beyond plus soaked phone books and paper. A fun game for things that are not practical.
I will post when done.

[dverna]

I have never "enjoyed" recoil so "the heavy weights" have never held any attraction for me. I do not game hunt (except bird hunt) so I have no need for a heavy load. If I "had" to go deer hunting I would use a rifle anyway. I would start flinching with a pistol that is adequate for big game.

I have never seen a really good pistol shot using heavy loads. But my experience is limited to the yahoos one sees at public ranges blasting away on one extreme, and dedicated competitive pistol shooters at the other extreme. Most of you are not "normal" and I say that with respect. It takes a lot of talent to shoot heavy bullets well in a handgun. The problem is those in the bottom 90 percentile think they should shoot 300 gr bullets because 10% can.

Taffin is proof that there are consequences to taking a pounding over a long period of time. He has learned a lesson but it is too late for him. YMMV

Don

[44man]

We made a huge mess today with soaked paper and phone books.
The 405 gr .44 boolit was out done by most all other boolits. Velocity is too low and there is no splash or wide holes, just a hole.
My 290 gr, 320 LBT and my 330 gr penetrated deeper and blew up large cavities.
The first 2 shots with the 405 gr turned up and exited the stack of paper and a few were found sideways.
Shooting a target at 50 yards showed side ways holes and poor accuracy. One shot looked like total side impact.
Ignore twist and velocity and the gun just makes noise.
Whitworth has the figures.
My .475 came close to 4' of penetration.
It was a fun day and we had a new, young shooter. It took little time to stop his flinch from bags and he was shooting the .44 great. We started him with a .22 and soon he was tuned right in to a .44.

[runfiverun]

james my 445 with 315-350's will key hole almost every shot in a 44 case. the others are oblong or just plain tipped.
and thats at 25 yds.
if i shoot them in the 445 and jack up the velocity they do much much better even to 100 yds.
as far as i can hold paper plates.
same gun just different velocities.

the revolver has a very efficient porting system that actually works better with the higher weight boolits and heavier loads.
but for the most part i stick with the nominal weights for each gun and figure if i need more weight, i have a larger hole in another guns bbl.
the whole supermag series was designed just to throw the heavier weight boolits at the same speed as the nominal boolit weight magnum versions.

[W.R.Buchanan]

Bigger bullet at same speed equals more momentum. More momentum means deeper penetration.

However if you are already going completely thru something then "more" is Moot.

I think it is much more important to shoot more and become good, accuracy wise, than to blast away with mega loads making alot of noise but never developing any proficiency.

I'm pretty sure just about any bullet form any of the above mentioned guns will work just fine, as long as it hits the mark. If it doesn't hit the target then it might as well have an atomic warhead, or be from a BB gun.

That said, I think if you are going to stumble around in country where there are big things that can and will eat you, it might be prudent to be armed accordingly, and also be very proficient with said firearm.

But, if you are shooting tin cans then bigger just comes down to a pissin' match with your buddies.

Randy.

[white eagle]

W.R.
I agree with your statement
there are a few here that think there is no need for practice
and shooting a lot does nothing to make you a better shooter.....

[Bullshop]

.....However if you are already going completely thru something then "more" is Moot.....

I am not so sure that your statement is absolutely true. You also have to consider terminal rate of deceleration and its relationship/affect to the permanent wound channel.

[41mag]

While I have not read the article, I personally have not found a need to pursue bullet weights in the calibers I shoot, heavier than the normal mid to heavier jacketed versions.

I do not hunt anything much bigger or tougher than the occasional 350'ish or so pound feral hog, that said they can soak up a pretty decent whallop even from my 454. They are however just like anything else, take away their pumping equipment, and they stop pretty quickly.

With 158 - 180's at the max in my .357s or 180 - 220 in my 41, 200 - 265 in the 44, and from 250 - 300 in the 454 I have not had any issues with either penetration nor stopping power. Put the shot where it needs to go and all is well. Put it somewhere it isn't supposed to be and no amount of bullet weight will help you out.

As to recoil, I have never been a major fan of it. I prefer mid range loads especially in the bigger magnums. Once upon a time I tried the hot, fast, hyper loads, but learned pretty quick that they tend to take a toll on both ends of the barrel. Like was mentioned above, I have enough issues with wore out joints below the waist, I don't need anything prematurely dysfunctional anywhere else.

[44man]

I do OK with the heavy guns like my SBH 10-1/2" with a red dot and the BFR is a heavy gun. The heaviest I use in the .475 is 420 to 430 gr, about right for the caliber. Even my 45-70 only uses a 317 to a max of 378 gr boolits for average shooting but I go to 420 gr once in a while and those are not real heavy at all.
I would say the boolits I use in the .44 are the heaviest from 310 to 330 for hunting. These are about 1350 FPS from 10-1/2" and about 1264 fps from a 7-1/2".
I am not over doing it at all but gun weight is important and a Ruger Hunter would be right at home with my loads.
My 330 was a mistake and I had no idea it would be so heavy when I cut the cherry and mold but it just shoots too good to change.
Now that 405 gr boolit just can't be sped up enough for stability and recoil was pretty light. The load was only 13.8 gr of 2400. The boolit is very long, looks almost the length of the case! :mrgreen:
I would say recoil was in the range of a 250 gr with Unique loads. But it is so far out of range it is crazy and even a .444 rifle would have trouble with velocity and stability.
I am pretty conservative with boolit weights, only using what works best for me. I will not get caught up in the ridiculous!
Velocity and twist must be matched and even lighter boolits should not be shot as fast as some load to. To load a 240 gr to near 1500 fps actually has a sharper recoil too.
A better explanation is I only shoot what is accurate, nothing else matters.

[cajun shooter]

John Taffin may have been a different person at one time but his choice of articles is low on the list. I understand that for the most part that he has a young man that does much of his testing as he is unable to fire much anymore. His medical problems are given as the reason. At 64, I also have some problems that curtail how much I shoot. When I was a Police Firearms Instructor and at the range every day, I would shoot every day of the week. I don't know if it's me getting old and missing my younger years or what but the writers who are working today for the most part are not doing anything for the readers. What use would a person have by shooting a 400 grain bullet from a handgun and what animal would it be used on?The old guys who are gone, led by example as they used what they wrote about. Every magazine you picked up had some one who you could not wait to read. Skeeter, Keith, Jordan, O'Connor, and many more. The targets are shot at feet and not yards. They have no military, police, security training but tell us how to use the black gun. They shoot all the sub powders and tell us how much fun it is to be a black powder shooter. I think Will Rogers made a statement that is much truer today than it was when spoken.

[44man]

John Taffin may have been a different person at one time but his choice of articles is low on the list. I understand that for the most part that he has a young man that does much of his testing as he is unable to fire much anymore. His medical problems are given as the reason. At 64, I also have some problems that curtail how much I shoot. When I was a Police Firearms Instructor and at the range every day, I would shoot every day of the week. I don't know if it's me getting old and missing my younger years or what but the writers who are working today for the most part are not doing anything for the readers. What use would a person have by shooting a 400 grain bullet from a handgun and what animal would it be used on?The old guys who are gone, led by example as they used what they wrote about. Every magazine you picked up had some one who you could not wait to read. Skeeter, Keith, Jordan, O'Connor, and many more. The targets are shot at feet and not yards. They have no military, police, security training but tell us how to use the black gun. They shoot all the sub powders and tell us how much fun it is to be a black powder shooter. I think Will Rogers made a statement that is much truer today than it was when spoken.
I agree. The last article was shooting the S&W performance center Hunter in .44. Compensated with a red dot, shot at 20 yards. What a blow to a fantastic revolver! I would not buy the gun according to Taffin's testing. SAD, SAD, SAD! That gun should do those groups at 100 yards and maybe farther. To get press and a paycheck only is very low.
I miss the old writers and editors that went into the nitty-gritty of a gun. Keith showed me what could be done. Ken Waters went into large detail for every caliber.
I could be a gun writer but I would never take advantage of a gun maker. They would be rung out in every detail for pages and pages and issue to issue, not glossy pictures and a few words.
I am old school and proud of it, but then I am damned old too! [smilie=s:

[bigboredad]

For me shooting has always been about fun getting too serious and being anal about everything is not my kind of fun. But I do like to hit what I shoot at and for me in my guns which are handguns only and only .44mag and .45 colt in Rugers and as the bullets got heavier and longer They not necessarily got more accurate but finding a load that was acceptable for me was much faster and easier. Right now my favorite bullet weight for the .45 colt is 340. I find the recoil for me is also easier to handle because its a push and not sharp and a crack. I have been happy with that bullet weight at speeds from 900-1300+. But I am easy to impress and I don't feel the need to prove anything to anyone that is just fun and I shoot for fun. ymmv and have fun

[truckjohn]

Well...

I think a whole bunch of it has to do with the wisdom gained by experience and growing older.... There's merit in telling people that they don't need to be ashamed of shooting easy to shoot loads.... that a well placed shot using mid-velocity and mid-weight bullets will surely kill things just as dead as super-duper high velocity behind super duper heavy weight bullets..... and there's nothing wrong with just enjoying shooting to shoot....

You gotta look at where the the different segments of the gun buying public are.... and it's absolutely true that in general - the older demographic has the money to buy stuff... Where us younger guys are skimping to pay for kid clothes, diapers, and formula.... It's OK to buy a new gun you really want to shoot - and you don't have to feel like a wimp for not physically damaging yourself when you shoot....

There's nothing wrong with reassuring us that 200g 30-cal cast bullet going 1,600 fps surely will kill deer all day long out of our 30-06 and 308 rifles... or that lower velocity 250g loads in the 44mag are fun and accurate - and you can shoot those loads all day long at the range too - without tearing up wrists, shoulders, or coming home with a migrane....

That's where I am at (Though I am fairly young..)... I love bringing out my Mosin Nagant rifle out to the range with a box of 314299 cast bullets on top of 16g 2400 - and I can shoot all day long till my eyes won't focus any more... And... that load will drop a deer all day long.... I don't particularly like shooting 180g Yellow Tip Machine gun loads.... That steel buttplate rattles my brain too much.....

Thanks

[Buddy]

Huh? My Dan Wesson 744VH8 consitantly shoots around 2" @ 100yds with 180gr j-word. Lots of development went into this. With a 1-16 twist it will shoot 3" @ 100yds. with 310gr RFGC Lee boolit. With this particular revolver though you might say I've got my cake and ate it too. It's all in the development, from the pot to the intended target. I will start soon on heavy bullet loads that don't kick so much before my 57yr old hands get worn completely out. Not entirely from shooting though. 35 yrs of driving semi have taken their toll also.

[bigboredad]

Buddy I hear on the semi hands I've pretty much trashed my neck from trucking. Them Fine roads in Arkansas had a lot to do with that

[evan price]

Read the article and agree... who needs 370 grain 44 mags, or 420 grain 45 Colt?

After a while you are just beating up yourself and the gun.
There's a sweet spot for every caliber.

[Lloyd Smale]

think of taffin as an old nascar driver. When they get old they dont drive race cars around at 200 mph. They own teams and pass on there knowlege to younger guns. I know at 53 my body and my eyes are sure not what they used to be and maybe his eyes arent up to giving a revolver a fair shake at 50 yards. I know mine are to the point that there not. Should he or myself quit shooting or passing on what weve learned. I dont think so. I give the guy credit. Most people at his age are having tee at the local old folks comunity center, at least hes out there burning powder.

[44man]

What does that say for me Lloyd, I am 73 and 1/2 yet still pull off those 1/2" groups at 50 yards! :kidding: You are a youngster still.
I always agree with you but don't go pulling that age stuff on me. You wippersnapper! :violin::violin:

[Lloyd Smale]

problem i have is my eyes. I have great vision at long range but poor up close so sight focus is a joke anymore and i cant shoot with bifocals so its either see the target or see the sights and seeing both at the same time just isnt in the cards anymore. Also you have to keep in mind that for taffin, he probably didnt start out with muscle size and tone as big as mine or yours and probably wasnt as active through life so what he had went away faster. Dont care what anyone says shooting big sixguns regularly takes some strenght in the wrists and arms. Add to that the fact that your an extream exception. I dont know maybe a half a dozen guys in the country that at your age still shoot the big guns. I still have no probably with them but sure dont sit down and shoot 300 rounds out of a 500 linebaugh off the bench working up loads like i did 20 years ago.

[44man]

Eyes are a big problem. I get the line less bifocal lens. That seems to work best. I need new ones big time, been too long. You can tilt your head until stuff gets a better focus without bouncing across that line.
I don't shoot a whole lot with the big guns because nothing needs worked on unless I want to test something. I can tell with 5 shots if something works or not. If I change a boolit for hunting, it is a quick sight in.
We will do a lot of off hand shooting when the season gets close just to get in the groove.
Once a gun is worked out, there is no need to shoot it all the time and a few of mine will sit in the safe for 3 months but I seem to take the .475 all the time. I just like to shoot it. The 45-70 is just too boring! [smilie=l:
I bet I shoot the least amount of anyone here anymore. Even a new gun doesn't help. Whitworth got his new .500 JRH and I don't think we went through 15 shots before I had a one hole group at 50 yards. Then a quick sight in was all that was needed.
I was so lazy last season that I finished hunting with 5 shots left. I killed 3 more deer and had 2 left. It took me until last month to finally load all the empties. Never cleaned a gun either.
I don't think anyone here is as lazy! :bigsmyl2:

[Shuz]

problem i have is my eyes. I have great vision at long range but poor up close so sight focus is a joke anymore and i cant shoot with bifocals so its either see the target or see the sights and seeing both at the same time just isnt in the cards anymore. Also you have to keep in mind that for taffin, he probably didnt start out with muscle size and tone as big as mine or yours and probably wasnt as active through life so what he had went away faster. Dont care what anyone says shooting big sixguns regularly takes some strenght in the wrists and arms. Add to that the fact that your an extream exception. I dont know maybe a half a dozen guys in the country that at your age still shoot the big guns. I still have no probably with them but sure dont sit down and shoot 300 rounds out of a 500 linebaugh off the bench working up loads like i did 20 years ago.

Lloyd, have you ever tried a Merit optical device? My eyes started going early on, and I found the Merit to be what I needed. It's to the point now, that I can't shoot open sights without it for target shooting. For hunting I use either a scope or an EDM fiber optic front sight, because a Merit just doesn't work well for hunting.
I'm not old, I'm only 18, but I have 52 years experience!