2 loads that shoot to the same point of impact...common?

[superior]

It seems that both loadings I'm making for my 7.5" bbl Blackhawk in 45 colt, shoot to the same point of impact at 20 yards. Is that unusual? I've been loading the Lee 452-300-rf and experienced uncanny accuracy with the first loading I attempted. Not wanting to change anything, I've stayed with that exact recipe. I've since aquired the Lee 452-255-rf and although the powder charge I use is slightly larger (Hs-6), they appear to share the same accuracy (@ 20 yards) and point of impact! I plan to load the 255's in much larger quantities, since they are more economical and don't require gas checks. I'm confident that whatever crosses my path on our Texas ranch will be easily dispatched by the lighter of the 2 boolits. Right now, I'm happier than a wild hog, wallowing in the muddy tank on the ranch!:guntootsmiley:

[onondaga]

You lucked out, I don't think that is too common. Hope it stays that way for you!!!

Gary

[crash87]

I do not believe it would be common, but on 2 occations I have had it happen to me. 1 a .243 WCF the other is my 44 Bisley, where it lands 2 different loads with the same bullet, 250LFN, a midrange and a high velocity to the same point and a 280gr, wfn so close as to intermingle with the group. It sure is nice when a plan comes together, even if it is by accident.

[SCIBUL]

Yes I am lucky with my STEVENS 200 7-08Rem. I shoot those two loads with it :

Case : LAPUA .308.
Primer : CCI 200.
Powder : Vihtavuori N 110 : 15,4grs.
Boolit : LEE Soupcan 135grs.

Case : LAPUA .308.
Primer : CCI 200.
Powder : Vihtavuori N 120 : 19,3grs.
Boolit : NOE Hunter 150grs.

Same POI and accuracy @ 100 meters.
:drinks:

[fredj338]

With bullets close in wt/vel, not uncommon. I could not get my RBH to shoot even close between 255gr & the Lee 300gr going the same vel. The 300 shot much higher.

[captaint]

superior - I'm thinking maybe the key to your "success" is the 20 yard thing. Heck, I've put together 7 or 8 different loads with 6 different boolits in my 1911's in 45ACP, and I never have bothered to adjust the sights. The difference in impact location is really small. Now, at 50 yards, we'd probably see some difference.. Just my experience. Mike

[Blammer]

I've had few loads like that, consider yourself lucky!

I'd want to test them farther out say 50 yds and 75 yds. (well I use a scoped handgun and a rest and hunt with it too... so my criteria is a tad different.)

[462]

I, too, reckon that longer distances will prove to result in differing points of impact. Only one way to find out.

For what it's worth:
Elmer Keith, as quoted from Sixguns
"The .44 Special is the only load we have found that will shoot to the same sighting with light or heavy powder charges, so long as the bullets are of the same weight."

[MT Gianni]

I, too, reckon that longer distances will prove to result in differing points of impact. Only one way to find out.

For what it's worth:
Elmer Keith, as quoted from Sixguns
"The .44 Special is the only load we have found that will shoot to the same sighting with light or heavy powder charges, so long as the bullets are of the same weight."

That is when you stick with Elmers light load and his heavy load. All other loads are anywhere.
I have had good luck with j-words in the 280 with 175 gr and 139 gr printing within an inch of each other @ 100 yards. It doesn't happen often IME.

[Blackwater]

Getting two different loads to shoot to the same POI, or very nearly so, isn't exactly terribly rare, but it's a long ways from being common, especially if the bullets are of widely differing weights. One factor that makes pat answers to this question impossible is the fact that some folks grip their guns differently, some using a soft grip while others use a harder grip and stiffer forearms. Arms are large and small, and the sheer weight of the arms affects POI. Size of the hand varies. A buddy has huge, heavy, meaty hands, and his guns always shoot slightly to the left for me, while mine shoot slightly right for him. Nothing new about this. If the long bones of the shooting hand are slightly to the right of the centerline of the gun when it's fired, the bullets go to the left, just like they do when you rest a rifle's forearm against a tree. Guns always shoot away from their heaviest or hardest resistance. Most right handers grip Colt type single actions a bit around to the right of the grip, so most of these shoot slightly left for right handers. Lefties usually shoot slightly right. This is just a factor that has to be dealt with in some manner if one wants these fixed sight guns to shoot to a precise POI. It's just simple high school physics.

That's why nobody else can REALLY sight in YOUR guns for you. Even in rifles, there's a difference in POI quite commonly, most often because most people cant their rifles a bit.

With widely different bullet weights, such as 180 & 240 gr. .44 mags, there's little liklihood of POI coinciding unless the lighter bullets are moving much slower than the heavy ones. A light lead bullet for plinking and familiarization/practice at moderate velocity may well print pretty close to a more heavily loaded, faster heavy bullet load because the heavier bullet load, being faster, gets out of the barrel in about the same amount of time as the lighter/slower load. It's barrel time and muzzle flip that controls POI in these type load comparisons, and with folks differing widely in their grip and stiffness of the forearm, results vary, and no hard and fast rule can be derived because the variables in the shooters themselves can't be anticipated.

As with so many things related to shooting, the only way to find out is by shooting .... which ain't so bad a deal anyhow, is it? ;^)

[geargnasher]

I've had one spectacular example of this. Shiloh 45/90 with a 3031 workup and a Reloder 7 workup, side by side alternating shots starting at 100 yards, then 200, then 300, and finally 500. The POI and POI increase with charge weight, was identical, within an inch, of each powder. The POI did increase predictably with each additional grain of powder. Only difference was the RX7 groups were about 2/3 the size of the 3031 groups.

With .45 Colt at standard pressure levels, I've run the gamut of powders from Clays to Blue Dot, and boolits from 200 to 340 grains, in many revolvers, many times. I have a formula for making fixed sight .45 Colt revolvers shoot to POA, and I've found that out to 25 yards just about anything you change makes a noticable difference.

Gear

[Lloyd Smale]

in handguns it seems to happen more as the bore size increases. It also seems to happen more for me with short barrels. Id have to belive it has something to do with how long the bullet is in the barrel while its recoiling. My 4 inch 500 linebaughs are the best at it. Just about every load with bullets between 400 and 500 grain and at about any speed with shoot within two inches at 25 yards.

[XWrench3]

is it common? probably not. but it does happen. more so in pistols i think, than in rifles. a pistol barrel does not vibrate to the extent of a rifle barrel. you are lucky. getting different loads, to have the same point of impact is something i have to work through a lot of loads usually to make happen. usually, if i can get a cast bullet load to hit where i aim for at 50 yards, that makes me happy. that way i do not have to adjust my scope when switching between jacketed loads ! 100 yards, and cast loads @ 50.

[crash87]

Did some more shooting today, rifle, and I can add another to the list. A 180 and 225gr. .338 out of my 338/06 Ackley Imp. 35 or so years of shooting/reloading and it has happened a total of 3X.
Crash87

[RobS]

It's about the recoil and the amount of time the boolit is in the bore. Certain scenarios, driving a heavy boolit fast and a light boolit slow a person can manage to bring the POI together while having the same POA. Take a heavier boolit and shoot is slow then load for the same boolit but increase the velocity and the boolit will come down on paper. Depending on the caliber, boolit weight, velocities, powder etc. it is possible to have the same sight settings for two different boolit weights. I did once load to make the velocities and powders of 250 grain 45 cal boolits and heavy 300+ grainers work together, but later on decided all wasn't worth the effort since I could only powder puff the 250's (light plinker loads) in order to keep the same, or close to it, POA with the heavies. Shooting fast 250's and fast 300+ out of my 45 cal revolvers never gave me the same sight settings so it's not something I load for anymore and now only use one or two boolits at comparable weights for my firearms.

[W.R.Buchanan]

I once had an M29 that would shoot the same Lee 240gr SWC to the same point of aim IN either a .44 Special load or a .44 Mag load. One was 14.5gr of H110 the other was 23gr of H110.

That was at 25 yards and the gun would consistantly shoot 1.5" groups with either load at that distance.

Past that distance elevation interpolation was needed to guide the bullet to the target.

Randy.

[Artful]

You are indeed lucky - I had a friend with a BLR in 358 - we loaded up some loads for him for deer/elk but he wanted a pistol bullet load for plinking and practice - I went thru quite a few powder/bullet combinations before I found one that did what he wanted. You can force it but it takes a lot of components and time to get it to happen.