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tracker
06-02-2005, 10:40 PM
Hi All
Can we as home spun bullet casters make as good or better cast bullets for hunting then do the commercial boys like Cast Performance, Bear tooth Bullets, Oregon Trail bullet Company and the like ?

Tracker

StarMetal
06-02-2005, 10:49 PM
In the sense that we can control the alloy, the size, the lube, and the hardness...the answer is yes, homespun is better.

Joe

waksupi
06-02-2005, 11:19 PM
The commercial companies have to be all things, to all people. They don't know the end use you will put a bullet to, nor your bore size. So, they try to hit a happy medium on size, and generally make them too hard, to try to keep down the leading that occurs with an improperly sized bullet. Some of the small custom vendors like Bullshop would most likely fill your needs for size and hardness, but I wouldn't rely too heavily on the major vendors. They depend on heavy advertising, and volumn sales to under educated cast shooters. Not to say they make bad bullets, but for every firearm application and size they happen to match up, there are probably five that don't .

Bass Ackward
06-03-2005, 06:00 AM
Hi All
Can we as home spun bullet casters make as good or better cast bullets for hunting then do the commercial boys like Cast Performance, Bear tooth Bullets, Oregon Trail bullet Company and the like ?

Tracker

Tracker,

It can't be explained, it has to be experienced. But a successful hunt with a cast bullet you made yourself, adds significantly to the memory of the hunt.

To me, if you buy the bullet, it matters not if it was solid copper or cast. It's simply not mine.

David R
06-03-2005, 06:21 AM
Only you can cast a boolit with the dimensions you want to fit your firearm. You can pick the size of the melpat, diamater of the boolit to fit your gun, and the hardness you want. It ends being a truly custom setup to only fit and work best in your gun. SO yes your own cast is far better.

And the satisfaction can't be beat either from making a truly custom boolit and load for your hunt.

KCSO
06-03-2005, 11:12 AM
Most of the store bought cast bulets I have bought recently have been, in my opinion, too hard for hunting. I prefer an alloy no harder than wheel weight for hunting big game and in my 45-70 I shoot 1 -20 or 1-40 up to 1500FPS. 'Sides why in the world would I buy cast bullets and miss out on all the fun of making them? When them bullets drop all sparkling from the mold and I put my best in them I just naturally have more confidence in them. Of course I am trying to kill a deer with a flint tipped arrow too, so I may be all mixed up.

Bullshop
06-03-2005, 12:48 PM
Only you can cast a boolit with the dimensions you want to fit your firearm. You can pick the size of the melpat, diamater of the boolit to fit your gun, and the hardness you want. It ends being a truly custom setup to only fit and work best in your gun. SO yes your own cast is far better.

And the satisfaction can't be beat either from making a truly custom boolit and load for your hunt.

David R and all newer folks That don't know
Just for the record for the new folks we at Bull Shop offer a full custom service. If we don't already have what you want we will get it, including custom design. A hardness range from BHN- 5(pure lead) to 25. Black or smokless lube. Diameters + or - from standard. I do exactly what you would do accept I have a lot more experiance. So please don't include me in the lump of commercial casters that only offer a set catalog of what you see is what you get. I do take offence (minor) as I try hard to offer what others won't, a full custom service!

BTW should be a link at the bottom of the page.
BIC/BS

David R
06-03-2005, 05:40 PM
You don't count as a "commerical" caster. Maybe as a Custom commerical Caster? I was thinking of the ones you would get from midway, midsouth, or local gun shop off the shelf. No offense to you at all.


do the commercial boys like Cast Performance, Bear tooth Bullets, Oregon Trail bullet Company and the like ?

Maybe tracker should give you a call?

KYCaster
06-03-2005, 09:18 PM
Hi All
Can we as home spun bullet casters make as good or better cast bullets for hunting then do the commercial boys like Cast Performance, Bear tooth Bullets, Oregon Trail bullet Company and the like ?

Tracker

Tracker: Simple answer.......absolutely!!! Does that mean the commercial casters can't make a good hunting bullet? Of course not! Can you expect to get a good hunting bullet from the three companies you mention? Maybe! I haven't bought from any of these companies so this is only speculation, but, Cast Performance's main business is making bullet molds. He will sell you bullets cast from his molds in his particular alloy and if that's what you need then GREAT! Bear Tooth, however, will sell you bullets of his design that he thinks are good for hunting. If you can find something in his catalog that will work for you then that's great too. Oregon Trail, on the other hand, caters to the high volumn shooter. Their product appears to be cast in standard Magma molds and with standard commercial 92/6/2 alloy at ~16-18 BHN. If you can find a good hunting bullet in their catalog I'd be surprised.
Now, Bull Shop, if I understand correctly, will do pretty much anything within reason to sell you exactly what you want. Even to the point of taking a mold that you provide and useing the alloy that you ask for and any lube that you request so that you can have the same bullet that you would cast for yourself. That is truly "custom" work and is a rarity. It also comes with a "custom" price. I don't know what he charges for his work but he has to make a PROFIT, or at least a decent hourly wage in order to stay in business. So if you're not willing to spend the time and effort to make your own "perfect" hunting bullet then you have to rely on the commercial outfits, from Hornady and Speer on one end of the spectrum, to Bull Shop on the other.
Right in the middle of this range is Oregon Trail and, on a much smaller scale, me "Vulcan Bullets". We cater to the high volumn shooters and retailers. IPSC, IDPA, CAS and the guys who don't cast for themselves but shoot a couple hundred rounds a weekend. My volumn discounts start at 10,000 pcs. and you'd probably be surprised at how many individual shooters take advantage of that. Would you come to me for a hunting bullet? NO! Can I make a good hunting bullet? A friend of mine has an Eland, a Greater Kudu, a Blue Wildebeast, a Sable and a Zebra in the handgun record book all taken with boolits that I cast. Would I sell them to you? Sure, if you have some deep pockets. They were a PITA to cast in a two cav. SSK mold that has venting problems. Reject rate was about 75%. I can make a much better hourly wage with my Magma machines.
Bottom line is, "Ya pays yer money, ya takes yer chances". If you can find somebody to sell you what you want at a price you can live with, fine. If not, you have to make it yourself.

Disclaimer follows:
If anyone has been offended by what I wrote, or if I have misrepresented anyone's product, or if I stepped on anyone's toes, or if I have insulted anyone, please feel free to flame me as you see fit.
Thanks for listening.

Jerry

Bullshop
06-04-2005, 12:22 AM
KY caster
FLAME, you bet I'm gonna flame. You made it sound like my prices are outragously high, so here is a sample.
0 to 100 gn - 8.00
100 - 200 - 9.50
200 - 300 - 11.00
300 - 400 - 12.50
400 - 500 - 14.00
500 - 600 - 15.50
600 - 700 - 17.00
This is for standard alloy w/out checks
For checks add
22 - 27 cal - 2.50 per 100
28 - 45 - 3.50
475 - 50 - 5.50
So for example 100 170gn in antimonial alloy 9 to 25 BHN 30 cal boolits to be kind and gentil to your vintage Win 30 WCF in plaine base would be 9.50 or gas checked at 13.00. Well yes you pay shipping but if you buy 1000 it raises the price 1.00 per 100. Thats realy not too terrible.
And another thing you never mentioned that I am smart, good looking, and am a better shot than Starmetal.
Sorry Joe they were bound to find out on thier own sooner or later anyway.
BIC/BS

45nut
06-04-2005, 12:28 AM
I don't see anything you wrote as flame bait,on the contrary I believe what you have written is rather well put. Everybody is entitled to a real profit,keeping the lights on and the lead molten is a priority.
I think some people have a hard time accepting an idea of "profit" as opposed to "gouging". I have been put down all to frequently for the prices that are set for lumber and other building materials when I have no control over them personally. However how vaguely the "customer" infers "my" prices are too high,it is still directed to me. And like a chinese water torture it takes a toll,however slight the drop or insult may be it will still have a cumulative effect.
If our company's do not make a profit we disappear. Another lost choice.
I prefer to have options myself.....

KYCaster
06-04-2005, 02:20 AM
KY caster
So for example 100 170gn in antimonial alloy 9 to 25 BHN 30 cal boolits to be kind and gentil to your vintage Win 30 WCF in plaine base would be 9.50 or gas checked at 13.00. Well yes you pay shipping but if you buy 1000 it raises the price 1.00 per 100. Thats realy not too terrible.

Bull Shop: I got this from the latest Dillon catalog.....40/10mm SWC (.401) 175gr.....$40.98. That's the closest weight to your 170gn 30cal that they offer. They don't have anything suitable for 30WCF ( nor do I ). They don't offer .400 or .402 dia. They don't offer 9 BHN alloy or gas check or quantities smaller than a box of 500. They won't consider buying a mold to serve a single customer or take a customer's mold and cast for him.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but it sounds like you provide a truly "custom" service and I would expect to pay more to get exactly what I need, versus what they offer, which may or may not work for me. You are serving a different market than Dillon or Oregon Trail or Vulcan Bullets. The proof is in the PROFIT. If you can't make a decent wage then you won't stay in business, you just choose to do it a different way than I do.




"And another thing you never mentioned that I am smart, good looking, and am a better shot than Starmetal.
Sorry Joe they were bound to find out on thier own sooner or later anyway."
BIC/BS

Don't worry Joe, he's just repeating what Bull Shop Mom told him.

Jerry

tracker
06-05-2005, 10:30 PM
Thanks everyone
I am going to cast my own and give it a try. It looks like fun as I remember it when I was a kid. BullShop, I may even try some of yours. You look to be a real craftsman and I appreciate that.

Tracker

Four Fingers of Death
06-22-2005, 10:34 AM
I have used a lot of commercial cast (I am in Australia), mostly in pistols, as I am working away from home and don't have space for all my gear. The commercial casters that I have used all seem to try and make the boolits as hard as they can, because this is what the punters want. waste of hard metal if you ask me. Bull shops stuff sounds good.