Plain Base How Fast?

[brstevns]

Just how fast is norm for a Plain Base bullet made from WW? Is 1800 FPS asking to much.

[btroj]

Too many factors to give a solid answer. Caliber, is it heat treated, bore fit, bore condition, lube, weather, bullet design, and many other things make a difference. Powder and pressure make a difference too.
I have gone to 1700 in a 45-70 with plain base and no leading. Never tried in a 30 cal so I can't really say.
You should be good to 1400 to 1500 in almost any caliber/ cartridge situation. This is still dependent upon lots of other factors.

Give more info and you will get more specific answera.

Brad

[frankenfab]

"You should be good to 1400 to 1500 in almost any caliber/ cartridge situation. This is still dependent upon lots of other factors."

Those are exactly the parameters (boolit size would be the first other factor) I adhere to, for I do not wish to have to clean out a leaded bore any more often than is absolutely necessary.

"A man's got to know his limitations."

[JeffinNZ]

1850fps from the .32-20 using a LDPE wad.

[brstevns]

Just how fast is norm for a Plain Base bullet made from WW? Is 1800 FPS asking to much.

Was thinking about the 303 British, bullet sized .002 over bore size using air cooled WW with Lee Alox liquid lub .

[geargnasher]

1800 fps is no problemo with PB in .303. 1800 fps with accuracy is going to be pretty tough. Either put a copper bottom on it and go well over 2k, or just work up to the point where your accuracy diminishes and play around with powders to see what gets you the best results.

Gear

[btroj]

I would suggest a powder like 4895 so you can keep pressure lower for the velocity. Keep the bullet pretty hard. LLA wouldn't be my first choice but you never know.
Give it a shot and let us know.

Brad

[HammerMTB]

If you want to try paper patches, you have no contact with the bore and can send a PB boolit downrange at higher speeds than with conventional lube.
just sayin'..... :Fire:

[geargnasher]

:goodpost:

Hopefully 303guy will weigh in.

Gear

[303Guy]

I'm with HammerMTB. The paper patch makes the 303 British quite versatile and you'd be surprised at the accuracy from a well worn or even badly rusted (but fire-lapped) bore. I'm talking plain base boolits.

[Centaur 1]

Was thinking about the 303 British, bullet sized .002 over bore size using air cooled WW with Lee Alox liquid lub .

You might want to stock up on stainless steel bore brushes. :kidding:

[Bill Torzsok]

1850fps from the .32-20 using a LDPE wad.

Hi Jeff!
Pardon my ignorance what is a LDPE wad?
Regards

[geargnasher]

Low Density Poly Ethylene, I assume.

Milk jugs?

Gear

[Nora]

If you would just add a GC to it you would be fine. I use a C312-185-1R with a GC and LLA @1850 fps with my #4 Mk II with no leading. Air cooled or water cooled doesn't matter. It is also sized to just .001" over bore size.

Nora

FWIW: my LLA is thin to one part moose snot two parts thinner.

[turbo1889]

Using nearly a full case of slow burning powder with a small quantity of COW as a filler between the powder and the boolit will allow you to push a plain base boolit into the 2,000 fps range (give or take a couple hundred fps depending each individual guns quirks) while maintaining accuracy and keeping the bore fairly clean with high powered bottle neck rifle cartridges.

I'm doing exactly that with the 303-Brit and 7.62x54R. Also been working with a 7.7-Jap but that particular gun is being a pain in the rear and it’s the gun not the load, specifically the condition of the bore. Also, used the same kind of load combination with a lot of other cartridges including 7mm, 30-cal. (non-fat), and 8mm cartridges but the two previously mentioned are the most relevant to your application since your talking about the 303-Brit and the 7.62x54R is its kissing cousin.

I question, however, the use of only LLA for your boolit lubrication. Currently I'm using a hybrid boolit in my "fat 30" caliber guns that has two conventional lube grooves on the base of the boolit inside the neck of the brass that I lube with White Label BAC lube and TL grooves on the nose that I dip lube in 75/25 JPW/X-lox lube. I have tried straight tumble lube only combinations in the past and I never had good results much above 1,600 fps.

Here is a 300 yard target shot with such loads with a scoped Mosin-Nagant:

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3066/5721239694_39e441cc5e.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/54455625@N04/5721239694/)

[longbow]

Do a search for Ben's posts. He seems to do very well with PB boolits in .30 cal. at least accuracy wise. Not sure of velocities but I am sure he would share information with you.

I seem to find it easier to get higher velocities from larger bore PB boolits than .30 cal with PB boolits or even gas checked boolits in .30 cal. It may be the smaller bore needs higher pressure, faster rifling twist, maybe a bit of both?

A filler like shotgun buffer or Cream 'O Wheat might help get you there too. Fillers are a whole field unto themselves though so don't go jumping in without doing some research. Any filler will raise pressures so loads have to be developed. I have worked up some not bad loads using COW but since I have not chronographed them I can't say for sure what velocities were like. I have only been using gas check loads lately but fillers have not dropped off my radar.

Some info that may be of use:

http://www.surplusrifle.com/shooting/castfiller/index.asp
http://www.303british.com/id37.html
http://www.lasc.us/Brennan_6-5_WadsFillers.htm

Alternately as mentioned, paper patching will solve the issue if you have a suitable mould.

Longbow

[longbow]

Forgot to mention lube. That is if you want an alternative to LLA. There are lots of lube recipes on this site and many are pretty simple to make.

I have been having good results from my simple lube:

- 4 parts by volume Lucas Red 'N Tacky grease
- 1 part by volume Ivory soap
- enough Paraffin wax (I didn't have beeswax) to stiffen the mix up to your preference ~ around 3 parts by volume paraffin to the grease/soap mix

Heat and melt grease and soap then paraffin. I made mine quite firm and use it to pan lube .303 and .44 mag. Even with quite hot loads I have had no leading at all. None!

Also, look up Ben's Red with the search. Ben came up with a very similar lube but with a few more ingredients. He has good success with his lube as well.

Longbow

[brstevns]

Thanks, It looks like I need to go to a better bullet lube, use slow burning powders and maybe work up a load with a filler. If all fails try using my bullet as a Paper Patch?

[Harter66]

BR ,
I'm shooting an 06' and have no trouble getting to 1800 fps with a plain based boolit,groups take more work and this particular is fussy anyway. I've also gone beyond that with a PB in a 32 Rem . My lube FIW is (I don't have my book in hand)1# parafin wax,14oz generic Vasoline(package weight),2tablespoons of STP.Yes I know it won't go that fast but its working out for me so far. I get to my velocities w/IMR4350 .

[303Guy]

This STP stuff seems to be not too bad an ingredient. It's what makes my 'waxy-lube' work I think and the parafin wax makes it 'hard' while the Alox stick lube give it a little 'malleability' or 'strength' to stay in place or 'glue' to hold the boolits in the case neck. That's not to say my 'waxy-lube' is the best - just that is served my purpose well at the time so I still have some waiting for my next cast boolit attempts.

[peerlesscowboy]

Just how fast is norm for a Plain Base bullet made from WW? Is 1800 FPS asking to much.
Rule of thumb, 1500 fps. Like most "rules of thumb" actual results can vary, depending on factors.........

[brstevns]

Rule of thumb, 1500 fps. Like most "rules of thumb" actual results can vary, depending on factors.........

A member of the forum is sending me a mould that is plain base and I was just wondering. Thanks

[1Shirt]

Have driven PB 45 rifle blts w/o leading at over 1600. Have driven PB 30's up to 1500, no leading. Use Canuba Red lube on every thing. Could probably go higher if I wanted, but I don't want. Beyond those vols I use GC's. The previous works for me, and I don't fix what works.
1Shirt!:coffeecom

[nanuk]

I will be looking forward to your results.

as for lube, it shouldn't take much searching to find what others are using at higher velocities.

WLL, or BullShop lubes would probably help to remove one variable.

Cast good boolits from a tough alloy, protect the base, use a powder that fills the rest of the case, gets you the target velocity, at the lowest pressure... that seems to be a pretty good place to start, from what I read on here