new to bottom pour - help please

[tomf52]

Just got a Lyman MAg 20 bottom pour and will soon undertake casting with it. Have been ladle pouring for aound fifty years so this will be a behavior change for "a dinosaur". Any tips, tricks, gimmicks, hints, or otherwise out there to make this go smoothly? Will be casting 99% pistol bullets with wheel weights and Lee and RCBS molds. Thanks for any help you may be able to give. Tom

[44man]

Just got a Lyman MAg 20 bottom pour and will soon undertake casting with it. Have been ladle pouring for aound fifty years so this will be a behavior change for "a dinosaur". Any tips, tricks, gimmicks, hints, or otherwise out there to make this go smoothly? Will be casting 99% pistol bullets with wheel weights and Lee and RCBS molds. Thanks for any help you may be able to give. Tom
You can do like I did! :mrgreen: I plugged the hole and took the junk off the top. Works great with a ladle.
There are only 2 sides to a bottom pour with no in between's. Some love them and some hate them! :coffee:

[mdi]

I too switched from ladle to bottom pour a few years ago. My first task was to find a comfortable position to cast, since I stood while ladle casting. I went to a stool and made a stand for my bottom pour pot. Raised it about 8" so I was comfortable and could see the spout. Other than that bottom pour isn't much different from ladle, just experiment with distance from mold to spout and position of mold (level, tilted right, left, front back, etc.). I opened up the valve all the way for a faster flow, which I prefer.

[pistolman44]

What I have found with my Lee 20# bottom pour is never run it dry. when done leave it about one fouth lead in the bottom of pot. This keeps any dirt from getting stuck in the bottom spout hole. I generally keep a paper clip bent to use if the spout does get clogged.

[geargnasher]

You can do like I did! :mrgreen: I plugged the hole and took the junk off the top. Works great with a ladle.
There are only 2 sides to a bottom pour with no in between's. Some love them and some hate them! :coffee:

I use whatever works. For 95% of my casting, I bottom pour. Much easier physically during long sessions, and much faster so I don't have to hustle the ladle to keep the moulds hot. Some things just work better with the ladle, though. Actually, the ladle makes better boolits for me, period. The thing is, I don't always NEED the best boolits, and the bottom pour is quite sufficient for my needs. Big, heavy, and long boolits get the ladle, though. I don't shoot thousands of heavy, 30 calibers or 535-grain .45s, so no sweat to ladle them.

My only tips for switching to bottom pour would be use a mold rest under the spout so your stream distance is always the same, tilt your mould slightly (about 15 degrees) toward you by lowering the handls, and aim the stream to the left or right side of the sprue plate hole to create a "swirl" effect. This helps venting since you can't rotate the mould/ladle together for a good air-purge. The air in the cavity will tend to spiral out around the stream as the alloy displaces and heats it.

Gear

[Dale53]

One thing that has helped me with bottom pour for many years - keep your flow spout adjustment loose. I run minimum flow (just above a dribble) and keep adjusting the flow as the pot level drops. That way I can maintain the amount of flow that works best for me.

Further, I pre-heat ALL of my moulds on a hot plate with a "learned setting" and I use a small manicurist's fan to maintain mould temperature.

I just this minute finished a 21# pot full of .38/.357 Magnum 160 gr Hollow Points from a Mihec two cavity Cramer style mould for Mihec's 359640 mould.

It took well under 2.0 hours for 21# of lovely match quality hollow points. I have ladle cast in the past but that kind of production will not happen with a ladle. I regularly use four and six cavity solid point moulds and they are even faster. The object is to cast match quality bullets. However, being able to do it quickly is a BIG bonus. Bottom pour gives me that.

On the other hand, if you prefer ladle casting - go for it. Whatever spins your propeller, my friends...

Dale53 sitting here with a smile on my face (my grandmother told me that honest work has it's own rewards - I BELIEVE it)!

[Kraschenbirn]

As one who's been using a Mag 20 for a few months now, I have to agree with all suggestions offered so far. A couple of other things you might want to consider: (1) replace the slotted screws on the mould guide height adjustment with thumbscrews and replace the hex nut on the guide's backstop with a wing nut...makes it a lot easier to (re)adjust the guide when you want to cast with a different mould. (2) Rig yourself a mount for your thermometer. (3) If you plan to cast below around 650 deg. F, get yourself one of those butane mini-torches and keep it handy to deal with spout "freezes"...any time you cease casting for more than a couple minutes, it's going to need a little pre-heat to clear it. (This is my only real gripe about the Mag 20 and I think it could probably be corrected by taking the housing apart and rerouting the heating coil a little closer to the spout/valve assembly.)

I've already run off around 400 .44 RNFPs today and, as soon I finish scanning through the latest posts, will go back and run a few more before I switch to 440-grainers for my RB.

Bill

[Old Caster]

Experience is the best teacher. For me I ladle only my BCPR bullets because they are long and heavy and I use a Waage pot which is much more accurate in controlling temperature.
I, like Dale, like to bottom pour with a very slow dribble so as not to force dirt which is quite a bit lighter than lead and would like to float to the surface. Dirt constantly forms where the lead goes through the small spout so there is no getting away from it. I want it to take 2 - 3 seconds for the lead to fill the cavity so it is different pour speed for different sizes. This gives the dirt the ability to float to the top as it wants. If you do this it is imperative that you place your mould up tight to the spout or it won't fill correctly. How full your pot is will also vary the result because of different pressure at the spout. This is the best way but conditions might not allow you to this technique. If it is a poorly made mould it will fill up too much making a bad bullet, hence the experience with a particular mould will make me adjust. All Saeco's, RCBS, and some Lymans will work this way. Others might also but I have several Lymans that will give a big area on the base of the bullet so I have no alternative but to back the mould off the spout and speed up the pour speed and take what I can get adjusting the pour speed without pressure pouring so it is the best compromise. This up's the chance for dirt in the bullet but you have no choice.
I am not sure if you will have trouble with spout freeze with the Lyman, pressure pourng, and you will only know by trying it. I usually mould at about 750 F. and watch that the sprue holes don't have residue in them after I cut the sprue whch means that you are cutting the sprue too early. You can cut the temperature back as you go or like others have recommended, use a small fan that blows where your mould is the most. Don't be afraid to experiment a little with speed of pour, pressure and not, and I personally think the expensive moulds are more than worth the money spent.
The most overlooked and probably most important thing is to have the mould oil free. I spray my iron moulds after each use, unless I am going to use them again the next day, with WD40, liberally and clean them off with a dunk in mineral spirits and then a dousing with brake cleaner or gun cleaner followed with an air hose until no oil is visible as a smear anywhere.
I almost always initially heat my mould by putting about 1/2 inch of the open sprue cutter tip in the lead for about 15 minutes and wiping off the stuck lead smear with a rag as soon as I pick it up. Just don't let the mould accidently fall in because it would be a bear to clean. I don't hit my sprue cutter open either, but open it in a variety of ways depending on the mould, usually with a pliars and cut smoothly through the sprue rather than suddenly.
I fill my bottom pour pot from another pot sitting close by so I never vary the temperature or height of my pressure column more than about an inch.
If I pour 38's for IDPA I throw out all the previous and just go for speed by pouring at a fast pour and not pressure in a Lee 6 cavity, however the quality goes down .-- Good luck and happy pouring.

[fredj338]

What I have found with my Lee 20# bottom pour is never run it dry. when done leave it about one fouth lead in the bottom of pot. This keeps any dirt from getting stuck in the bottom spout hole. I generally keep a paper clip bent to use if the spout does get clogged.

THis^ Plus don;t smelt in it. I have been running Lee BPs for years. They won't leak or clog if you never run them dry & never semlt in them.

[williamwaco]

The correct answer, like for ladle pouring is :

There is no correct answer. Every pot and every mold and every caster is different

I agree you should NEVER let the pot get empty. Cleaning crud out of that spout is not fun. If you do let it run empty, remove the valve and be sure there is no crud or even clean metal in the spout before turning off the heat.

The good news is that if you don't like it, pull out the ladel and revert. I pour ladel bullets from my bottom pour pot frequently.

I have been casting since 1956. I use the bottom pour for volume and the ladle for quallity. I always use the ladel for rifle bullets.

You will need to become reacquainted with each of your molds. Each one will usually prefer a different method / cadence of casting. When you figure out how to make the first mold work and cast good bullets, make notes about how you did it so you can do it again when you shoot up all those bullets.

Hint. If you weigh your bullets, do not expect the weights to be as consistent as they are with the ladel.

[jsizemore]

If you pour at a lower temp, like 650deg or less, then make sure you have a grill lighter or propane torch handy to get started. After you start pouring, that little drip everyone complains about will insure you a unfrozen spout.
I make sure I keep at least an inch of alloy in the pot to keep crud from plugging the spout. When the alloy drops below half then start keeping an eye on your thermometer for temperature fluctuations. It's not that hard to get used to using it. Good Luck

[XWrench3]

THis^ Plus don;t smelt in it. I have been running Lee BPs for years. They won't leak or clog if you never run them dry & never semlt in them.

AMEN! NEVER, EVER, EVER SMELT IN IT! what a mess you will make for yourself!

i also double flux every batch of lead i put into my lee 20 pounder. a CLEAN pot, is a happy pot.

you will probably have to run your melt a little hotter than you are used to also, just to get away from "spout freezes". and yes, a quick light propane or micro torch is the only way to melt one to get it flowing again.

i have tried "pressure pouring" which means holding your mold tight against the spout while pouring. on some molds, this works ok, on others, it does not. i belive it has to do with how well that individule mold vents.

i use a milk crate to elevate my pot on, so i can see what is going on at the "business end". after all, that is what is important.

there have been a lot of good suggestions above, so try them all. every one of us is a little different, and trial and error is king!

[geargnasher]

The milk crate reminded me of two other tips: Locate the pot so the spout is just below eye level, and drill some holes in the base and screw it down! 20lbs of molten lead alloy is a terrific hazard if it gets knocked over.

Gear

[Recluse]

The good news is that if you don't like it, pull out the ladel and revert. I pour ladel bullets from my bottom pour pot frequently.

I have been casting since 1956. I use the bottom pour for volume and the ladle for quallity. I always use the ladel for rifle bullets.

You will need to become reacquainted with each of your molds. Each one will usually prefer a different method / cadence of casting.

+1

I put my Lee bottom pour pot on a ledge I built. I (normally) sit when I cast and the slight elevation of the pot makes things more comfortable during long sessions.

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/imagehosting/thum_73384dd135c1730c0.jpg (http://castboolits.gunloads.com/vbimghost.php?do=displayimg&imgid=862)

:coffee:

[prs]

I think I know where I put that ladel, I think I saw it a year or so ago.............

I like a hot mould and get my most harmonious outcome when the poured cavities remain liquid for some time. Even with 6 cavity aluminum moulds I want that first poured cavity to still be molten as the last cavity is topping-up. Gear's advice about angling and tilting is right on.

I try to keep the pour distnce as small as possible and still allow me to see the pour - maybe a half inch or a bit less. I keep the pour rate as fast as I can manage without splash or aeration. I have not timed the fill rates, but even a 250gr cavity seems to be no more than "one Mississippi". As I open the spout, I aim the stream so that the first little bit hits the top of the mould block and not the cavity and then move to have it enter the edge of the spru-way -- that keeps that relatively cooler first droplet from the pot's spout from making a blemish on the metplat of first boolit poured. I keep the flow going as I move the mould to adjacent spru-ways. This gives a strip of spru instead of little buttons and is easer and quicker to manage.

My boolits tend to have a uniform light frost, but that is how I like them, expecially for tumble lube pills. Have not had trouble with "dirt" in my spout. I use a generous covering of caly granules floating on top and I drain the post down until the flow rate is just about nil. My 2 current Lee 20# pots are over 12 years-old and I have never had one clog the spout.

prs

[astroskg]

What I have found with my Lee 20# bottom pour is never run it dry. when done leave it about one fouth lead in the bottom of pot. This keeps any dirt from getting stuck in the bottom spout hole. I generally keep a paper clip bent to use if the spout does get clogged.
kept having a problem with the bottom spout just clogging up with lead. it was like my lead wasn't up to temp or wasn't hot enough. i used a paper clip even a small nail in a pair of vice grips to un plug the hole. its frustrating when casting to have problems like this because you finally get the mold up to temp and then the bottom spout gets plugged and you have to spend time getting it unplugged and then by then the mold isn't hot enough.

here is my fix i took my small welding torch with the butane cylinder type (hope you know what i am talking about) fire it up and aim it at the bottom spout for only a couple seconds lift the handle and the lead starts pouring like it should i have to say i usually only need to do this once during the duration of my casting if it gets clogged .

why this nipple gets clogged and won't flow i don't know maybe the cold garage in the middle of january or the fan blowing over the pot to keep fumes blowing out the door during the spring and summer I'm not for sure i just know it happens usually when i start casting and a couple times during my session . all i know is a few seconds of the torch and the spout/nipple stays free of lead for the remainder of the session. hopefully this might help you if you run into this problem

[geargnasher]

why this nipple gets clogged and won't flow i don't know maybe the cold garage in the middle of january or the fan blowing over the pot to keep fumes blowing out the door during the spring and summer I'm not for sure i just know it happens usually when i start casting and a couple times during my session . all i know is a few seconds of the torch and the spout/nipple stays free of lead for the remainder of the session. hopefully this might help you if you run into this problem

It isn't clogging, it's freezing. Don't set the fan so that it blows under the pot, especially in cold ambient temps. If that doesn't do it, you might need to raise your pot temperature just a little bit and insulate with a thin layer of sawdust or kitty litter on top.

I keep a butane grille lighter nearby for just such occasions that the spout decides to freeze, and like a set of jumper cables for getting the stream to start the initial flow.

Gear

[astroskg]

kept having a problem with the bottom spout just clogging up with lead. it was like my lead wasn't up to temp or wasn't hot enough. i used a paper clip even a small nail in a pair of vice grips to un plug the hole. its frustrating when casting to have problems like this because you finally get the mold up to temp and then the bottom spout gets plugged and you have to spend time getting it unplugged and then by then the mold isn't hot enough.

here is my fix i took my small welding torch with the butane cylinder type (hope you know what i am talking about) fire it up and aim it at the bottom spout for only a couple seconds lift the handle and the lead starts pouring like it should i have to say i usually only need to do this once during the duration of my casting if it gets clogged .

why this nipple gets clogged and won't flow i don't know maybe the cold garage in the middle of january or the fan blowing over the pot to keep fumes blowing out the door during the spring and summer I'm not for sure i just know it happens usually when i start casting and a couple times during my session . all i know is a few seconds of the torch and the spout/nipple stays free of lead for the remainder of the session. hopefully this might help you if you run into this problem
sorry guys didn't finish reading all the post before i put my two cents in . there seems to be many casters who already know my trick with the lighter/torch guess great minds think alike

sorry again for a dup type fix and have fun

[jsizemore]

Don't worry. Repetition is an accepted form of learning.

[tomf52]

Thank you all for your replies and info. Hope to give it an initial run tonight. We'll see how it goes. Thanks again for the help, Tom.

[prs]

It isn't clogging, it's freezing.

Gear

Makes sense, maybe wrap a little heat shield around the spout for service in a cold room.

prs

[Crusty Deary Ol'Coot]

Right up front, these are a crusty Ol'Coot's opinions AND I am not a bottom pour person! Been there and done that!

Get yourself a Rowel Bottom pour ladle, a large lead pot and a good heat source and there is no bottom pour pot in the world - consumer level & price - that will begin to keep up.

I use an old Colman gas stove and a 35 - 40lb pot and like to team cast with a partner. Running 5 or so molds at a time we can cast LOTS of boolits quick.

The pot is large enough and the heat source great enough that I can add the sprews and fresh ingets into the pot all while maintaining casting temps.

I guess what soured me on the bottom pour was all the fiddling around to just keep em run'in.

The NRA said, in a reply to my letter, you couldn't get WW clean enough to use in a bottom pour.

Well, we all know that is a bunch of bull, but plug up those pots did, and with metal which had been melted/fluxed/cleaned and cast into usable sized ingets well before they were ever placed on the bottom pour pot.

Providing I could get bottom pour pots to work, and yes I am fully aware that many folk do use WW and a bottom pour, it would take at least 4 or 5 pots up and running to keep up with my casting rate when I team cast.

I'd be ever so happy to put away the old Colman stove if only I could have the amount of melted and up to temp alloy that I need, as fast as I need it, and do so without messing with the bottom pour problems.

However, as it current stands, I'd agree with the poster who said to take the stuff off the top of the pot and use a ladle!

Just make it a bottom pour ladle!

Keep em coming!

Crusty Deary Ol'Coot

[geargnasher]

I've been using one of my Lee bottom-pours for nearly 20 years and have never had a single clog. Plenty for freeze-ups trying to run the ragged edge of too cold in a cool room, and lots of dross inclusions from ashes trapped under the melt and dross from sprues thrown back in (they sink to the bottom and the oxide skin is trapped under the lead after they melt) but never a bona-fide clog.

Gear