help me decide

[jballs918]

ok guys here is the question for you all. im looking for something that shoot 38spl/357mag. well the thing is do i want a rifle or a pistol. i have a scope for the rifle and the scope rail. the rifle in question would be a 1894c marlin. the pistol in question is a ruger 4inch gp 100. both are great adds to my collection. and the scope i have is a higher end scope. now im not sure what to get. the price is one thing. i can get the rifle for about 330 or so and the pistol for about 460. i have nothing but long guns and i like them alot. also i have a duaghter that i want o get into shooting. this kinda plays into it also as i dont have a 22 of any sort. i also hand load and cast my own. so i can pretty much do anything from like 100grain to a 220 grain bullet. so i have lots of options. tell me what you all think and why. also if there is any other thing you can think of in 38spl pipe up. thanks guys jason

[carpetman]

jballs918---You didnt say how old the daughter is. You have told us you are young(someone thought you were 11)so I'm guessing your daughter is very young. None of your choices sound like good ones for a young daughter. Fess up--is this for you or is it for her? If it really is for a young daughter,I'd go with maybe a .222 or maybe the .204. For about the price range you mentioned,you could get one of these two in a CZ. I really think the scope would look better on it than on a Western style lever gun anyways. This would perhaps entail the added expense of getting dies,molds,etc if you don't already have this size. Casting .22 is not the nightmare some might tell you. Haven't tried 5mm(.20 cal)but I mentioned that size as I do like that size in air rifle --(I have cast a few .177 and it's no problem). Anyways introducing your daughter to shooting--you want her to enjoy it. Starting her off on something with too much recoil and blast would not be conducive to her enjoyment. The Cz would be a better match for a youngsters size.

[mooman76]

You have to learn to crawl before you can walk. Start her off with a pellet gun or .22. You don't want to scare her away from guns the first time she uses one, she may never want to shoot again! As for a pistol vs. rifle only you can deside wat you want. I'm assuming sence you said "collection" you will eventually get both anyway. Just deside waht you want next. Maybe since you don't have a pistol and do have a long gun, it's time for a pistol. The base gun club has a teach your son or daughter how to shoot (with a .22) I believe the last saturday of the month for like $5. Sounds like a good opportunity and if you need to borrow a gun, I have a couple 22's you could choose to borrow!

Mark

[Scrounger]

Marlin 1894s in .357 are a lot of fun but from what you said, I think your more immediate needs are for a .357 pistol. The GP 100 is maybe the best available (in my opinion) but they do get expensive. I keep trying to get a good used one but people keep bidding them up to $350 or more. Too rich for my blood. A S&W Model 19 or 28 might be had cheaper. Here's a link to SuperPawn's list of guns for sale at Auction Arms :

http://www.auctionarms.com/search/auctions.aspx?&ad=SuperPawn

They have anywhere from 30 to 100 guns they list every week coming out of pawn. They have very good ones (also some real trashy ones) and their grading is very strict, you will not be unhappy with it. Although their shipping point is in North Las Vegas, they will not sell or deliver over the counter, you must go through a dealer. Oddly enough, the fellow in charge of gun sales (And who gave me my CCW training) is the son of the owners of the gunshop I use out here in Pahrump. They are very nice people. When I "win" one of their auctions, I just call SuperPawn, pay by credit card, and have them ship it out here to their shop. They always have a license on file there.
Here's a link to some other GP-100s on AuctionArms:

http://www.auctionarms.com/search/auctions.aspx

And GunBroker:

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/SearchResults.asp

[jballs918]

hey guys i little more info. my duaghter is 8 and i have loaded 38spl with a 158 swc with 4 grains of unique. from what i understand this is a pretty mild load. i myself would only shot the hotloads. so there is no isses with that.

[mag_01]

:coffee: -----For a pistol in 38---357---it would be a colt python---Depending on your daughters age just about anything loaded light with lead would be fine say 30-30----or a lever gun in 38---357---loaded light----and the suggestions of a 22 would also come into the equation----It really up to you----Used 22 rifles can be had for very little money----Hay your the Daddy---ball is in your court-----Mag





Enjoy her they are only young once---:neutral:

[Scrounger]

Nothing wrong with starting out with a .22 although .38 wadcutter loads have very little more recoil than a .22.
I also have a Browning Buckmark .22 that is going down the road pretty soon. You can have that for $200 if you like. It has a 5-1/2" barrel and adjustable sights. It has a dinger you can see on the right side of the barrel. A little touch-up blue wouldn't make it perfect but it'd certainly look better. I will make no attempt to before selling, new owner will see the pimple in all its glory.

[versifier]

I'd just get your daughter a Crickett .22. My daughter loves hers in the hot pink stock. It has adjustable peep sights and is quite accurate. She is 9 now. She's also fallen in love with my Contender, for which I have a 10" .22LR match barrel, among others. As far as versatility, it has no equal - I'm currently at four pistol barrels and two carbine. You can also get youth model rifle stocks, .410 shotgun barrels, etc. As a handloader, you can download any of the harder kicking chamberings and let her work up slowly.
But to answer your original quetion, if it was me, I'd go for the Ruger. It carries well, will stop anything on two legs, and in a pinch, will work for deer hunting (with patience and careful shot placement), but you already have better options there. The .38/.357 is easy to cast for, easy to load, there's a huge range of boolit choices. The GP100 is a very user friendly revolver, and ideal to be using to teach your womenfolk the basics. You can start with wadcutters and tiny amounts of Bullseye up to heavy max loads for knocking over the metal critters. I think everyone needs at least one handgun that can be easily carried, or can be quickly put into action for things that go bump in the night, as there isn't always time to load a shotgun.

[carpetman]

Jballs918--Jason,I would certainly agree with Moomans suggestion of a pellet or a .22 rimfire. Kids love something that happens--knocking over a can is better than a hole in a paper target. A Ruger 10/22 would be a delight for a youngster. Scope would look good on it too. I mentioned the .222 as it is very low recoil. One day I found an absolute steal on a Rem 600 in 6MM Rem and an 03A3 30-06. Before I shot the 6MM I found a guy that had a Rem 600 in .222 that wanted to trade. I knew the 6MM would make a great deer gun for my grandson--several years down the road. The .222 would be a great gun for him to learn on. He liked the 600 because it was small and fit him better. We did get a lot of miles out of it and in fact he shot a deer with it--a one shot deal too. I mentioned the 10/22,a lot of guys put aftermarket stocks of all kinds on them. You should be able to find an original stock pretty cheap. Take a saw to it and make it fit the youngster and keep the original. Put the original back on when the time comes. How much would you enjoy shooting if you had to shoot a 36" pull for example?

[Scrounger]

hey guys i little more info. my duaghter is 8 and i have loaded 38spl with a 158 swc with 4 grains of unique. from what i understand this is a pretty mild load. i myself would only shot the hotloads. so there is no isses with that.

I'd go with the wadcutter bullet and 3.0 gr WW231 powder. 2300 loads to the pound, less than a penny each, about the same for the primer and even less for the bullets if you cast them yourself. Haven't bought .22LR lately, is it less tha $1.50 a box? The only real advantage to the .22 is that you don't have to put in the time picking up brass, casting bullets, and reloading. But maybe that's fun time...

About the Python... You know what opinions are like? Everybody's got one. Here's mine: It is an absolutely gorgeous gun...But. According to an old gunsmith friend, he called them Jaguars; God awful expensive and you had to keep a full time gunsmith on salary to keep them working right. That was his opinion, I've never owned one. Guess I believed him.

[Scrounger]

Combining CarpetMan's and Versifyier's thoughts... Yes, factory 10-22 stocks are easy to find. Cut it down and paint it up for her, maybe let her paint it anyway she likes, sort of liike an Easter Egg. You really can't go wrong with the 10-22. But sometime you are going to want to get a pistol in .357.

On another tack, does the Air Farce put any restrictions on you about weapon ownership? I vaguely remember a few years ago that there was a great deal of controversy about a base commander somewhere who forbid his troops to own or keep in their house personal weapons. That included homes up to 50 miles away from the base. He claimed that since they were getting a housing allowance from the government, it was within his authority to control what went into the house.

[45nut]

If you end up with a 10-22 I have an extra stock I would send for the shipping cost.

[Scrounger]

My problem with bidding on an inexpensive gun is the shipping and dealer's charges you have to add to it before you get it home. For that reason, I'd only shop for one of those locally. Check out the pawn shops, you can get a much better price than dealer's will give you, because the pawn brokers are able to buy their guns a lot cheaper. And deal with them don't just take the price they quote you. About the most they will have in a gun is about 40% of what they're asking for it so go down about a third and start negotiating. I have several friends in that business and they are good guys, once they know you, they'll give you some terrific deals. They'll also receive for you on any out of state purchases.

[Navahojoe]

I started my daughter off with a pellet pistol when she was 9 yrs old. She graduated from that to the .22 single six ruger, then to the .380 beretta, the .38/.357 Smith and now at 26, she asks if we are talking the Super Redhawk, .44 mag, full house loads, to the shooting range. She loves it. She is a very good shot, better sometimes than her old man. I think start small and workup. Best regards and
Merry Christmas!
NavahoJoe

PS: She hasn't seen the .45 LC Ruger BlackHawk yet. If she does, FORGET ME getting any range time with it.:Fire:



:castmine:

[monadnock#5]

When talking over what my first handgun purchase might be, a former mentor told me to buy a .22. He reasoned that if you can't learn to shoot a .22 accurately, there's just no point in going further. That logic made so much sense to me, that I went out and bought a S&W Mod. 27 .357 mag. I still have it, and no regrets. Although I will say that I had fired my Dad's Ruger .22 Mark1, and wasn't afraid of developing a flinch that couldn't be fixed. For your daughter, I say get a .22. It's the rare individual who has no flinch at all when shooting for the first time. If you do your best to make sure that she enjoys shooting with you that first time, she'll want to go again. You'll be rolling the dice with a larger caliber. As a seperate issue, buy the GP 100. Sportier than a S&W N frame, not as temperamental as a Python and built to last. One of those just right kind of guns.
Ken

[wills]

A new shooter should be started with a .22 rifle, either single shot or with a removable magazine, that fits. Anything with a short enough stock for an eight year old, is going to be too short for an adult.

http://www.crickett.com/TheStore/Rifles/rifles.html
http://www.roguerifle.com/Rifles.htm

[MGySgt]

FWIW -

Teaching a youngster to shoot - No semi auto's - too easy for an accident.

The 22 Cricket is a great gun. I have the orignial 22 Chipmonk made by Savage. Taught my son, my daughter, my grand daughter with that gun, still shoots great.

Pistol - there are not too many out there that are better then the Ruger Single Six in what ever barrel length strikes your fancy.

Targets - something that shows an action when hit - Clay birds, soda pop cans, steel targets. Oranges and apples can show a new shooter the destructive power of a 22.

Just my opinion - no autos for a new shooter.

By the Way - K-mart and Dicks Sporting Goods sell Rem and Fed 550 round boxes for less then $10.00, that works out to less then a buck a box. That is alot of 'Training Rounds' for a new shooter with a bolt action rifle or SA pistol!

Drew

[1Shirt]

JBALLs, Started my daughter on a 22LR, her first centerfire was a Hornet. Grand daughter, now 13 just got her own 10-22 for Christmas, and has been shooting for about 3-4 years. Shoots most things well, and took her first deer at 11 with a short stocked 308, and her first turkey at 12 with a 3" 12 g.., however her father worked her up to them slowly, and that is what I recommend. Grand daughter is tall for her age, and a competitive swimmer, and also wants to please her dad and grand dads, which are all a plus. She and her father are saving up now for an African hunt when she is 16 and I hope they make it. She very much enjoys shooting a Marlin 32-20 of her fathers, and does well with my M-94 357, even with Kieth Loads. My advise is to stay with long guns for starters as they are easier to control on a range with a youngin than a hand gun, and then as competance increases with age work with the handgun. Realize of course that my advise like that of the others is worth what you pay for it. However, I can tell you from experiance that seeing a young lady develop into a shooter has been one of the great joys of my life. The grand daughter will get my 700 Rem. in 300 Sav. next year, and I hope that when I am long since under the sod she will look at it with fond memories of her grandfather.
1Shirt!:coffee:

[MT Gianni]

I started my son at age 5 with a 22 pump and 3 months later broke him in with a 22 pistol. He was shooting a K-38 with mild loads at 6, seated in my lap with me in a cross legged position. My daughter also shot when she was 8, the same year. She them got friends who were not into guns and didn't shoot until she had some friends who hunted. She decided she would hunt with me. I got her on a 2 point white tail and 2 does, either were legal at the time when she said "I don't think I want to do this dad." We let them walk and walked a little further enjoying the fall day and she hasn't been out since. She could pick up any of my guns and load and shoot them in an emergency if she was home. I would stress to let them develope at their own pace more than anything and do it because they want to not because you want them to. Gianni.

[MGySgt]

She decided she would hunt with me. I got her on a 2 point white tail and 2 does, either were legal at the time when she said "I don't think I want to do this dad."...................

Just my humble opinion but:

Shooters don't have to be hunters. I know a number of individuals that like to shoot, but don't whant anything to do with hunting.

It was the same when I was into NFAA Archery. A lot of people I shot with in tournaments had no desire what so ever to go hunting.

We can, and do enjoy the shooting industry in many different ways that don't neccessarily include Hunting.

Drew

[Dan in Wa]

I'm with the gunny.
Still love to shoot,
but have killed enough.

[carpetman]

Scrounger---I did not hear of the Base Commander wanting to put a restriction on gun ownership. I really dont think it happened. Someones made up war story. I lived in base housing at two different places and had my guns in my residence. Guys in the barracks(now called dorms)cant have them. There are means where they can be stored. A Marine neighbor and wife divorced and he moved into dorms but kept his guns at my place. You can also ship guns when you get transferred. Back to the Base Commander story. Lets add to it and spice it up. Let's say he was Jewish and that military people get a rations allowance so he forbid them to eat pork in their home too. No he wasn't Jewish he was a Catholic Chaplain (Preist)and if he had to be abstinent the troops would be too. Worked so well and morale was so high and Bill Clinton ruined it all by ending the practice.

[MGySgt]

Restrictions on firearms in Base Houseing.

Some well meaning Base Commanders in the US have tried to restrict them and there is were the rumors start. They soon find out that they can not UNLESS there are federal or state restrictions. (Washington DC comes to mind real quick as probably being prohibited)

Overseas there is a SOFA (Status of Forces Agreement) between the US and the local government. The SOFA covers just about everything you can think about from how many dependents are permited in country to weapons stored in quarters (Base Housing and Barracks/Dorms).

Okinawa and Japan - No firearms or Bows allowed. The must be kept in the Units Armory with a record of Checkout and Checkin of the items.

Drew

[ktw]

I'd just get your daughter a Crickett .22. My daughter loves hers in the hot pink stock. It has adjustable peep sights and is quite accurate. She is 9 now. She's also fallen in love with my Contender, for which I have a 10" .22LR match barrel, among others.

I'm in the same situation; 8 and 9 year old daughters that I'd like to start taking to the range. The prices on the cricket and 10/22 are attractive but the crickets I've seen look just too micky-mouse and I don't want to deal with kids and a semi-auto.

Been interested in the contender carbines for some time, although I never got around to actually purchasing one for myself. Buying one 'for the kids' is a whole 'nother angle on rationalizing a firearm purchase . Have recently been looking into going that route; 22lr barrel now and 30-30 at some point in the future if they should develop an interest in centerfires/deer hunting. A spare buttstock to cut down should also be easy to find.

-ktw

[No_1]

I started my daughter when she was 4 with a scoped 10-22. The stocked was shortened by me to fit her. I used the fatory mag and stood right on top of her while she was shooting. Since then (she is 13 now) she has gotten quite fond of .22's. She still has the 10-22 (maybe close to 100k rounds thu it), a ruger .22 bull barrel pistol, a martini cadet in .22 mag and has taken over my cz 22 bolt rifle. She says she is ready to take over the mini 14 and the #3 in 44 mag.

I think her having the 10-22 from the start has been very helpful. Whenever we take a new rifle to the range she always takes the 10-22 as a fall back gun and always shoots it. The ammo is cheap and my fondness of .22's has increased. Kids need "right now" gratification when it comes to shooting to keep their interest. I started her with shoot-n-see targets at a very close range and moved the targets out as she got better. I also got her a reaction target (spinners) and she likes that too. Her favorite is the metal "ducks" I made her. Nothing more than 1/4"x2" angle cut in 1" widths. I have about 50 of them. We set those up on the 100 meter rail, paint them white with a spray can and she shoots those down. She has gotten very good at it. Sometimes we race to the other end. Winner watches the loser set them back up.

It is amazing how people at the range act when you bring a kid around. Sometimes you can see the look of disgust in their eye like the kid is going to solow down / foul up the day. Other times they smile and give plenty of latitude. What I like to see is the look on scowler's faces when she outshoots them!

Her and I still have friendly shooting competitions between us. In the beginning I would let her win most of the time but as she got better it became harder to beat her. BTW,She has no desire to hunt and that is fine by me.


Robert

[wills]

http://www.roguerifle.com/Target%20Model-04001.gif


Five pounds, pull adjustable down to 11''

[No_1]

Now that is real cool looking. I have seen those before. Be careful. Once they have that one, they will want one of them fancy german models to replace it then next thing you know they will be in the Olympics!

Robert


http://www.roguerifle.com/Target%20Model-04001.gif


Five pounds, pull adjustable down to 11''

[Scrounger]

KTW, there are already youth sized stocks on the market for the Contender, as well as adult size. Carbine length .22LR barrels can be had on Ebay regularly for less than $200; stocks available there too. And remember you're only renting if you want; When you no longer need them, you can sell them and get almost all your money back. Just about any caliber you could want is available.

[MGySgt]

KTW may be on to something - T/C Encore/Contendors may make more sense then a lot of other guns. Swap barrels as they come up.

I have 2 grandchildern that just might wind up with them! They are only 14 months right now, but got to start looking sometime don't I?

Drew

[ktw]

KTW, there are already youth sized stocks on the market for the Contender...

Any recommendation concerning the old contender vs a G2?

Not hard to find old contender frames banging around the local gunshops, almost exclusively in handgun configurations. Heard they had better triggers?

G2 is more likely to be an order out situation. Probably cheaper in the long run than buying the parts necessary to reconfigure a handgun...

-ktw

[Scrounger]

Any recommendation concerning the old contender vs a G2?

Not hard to find old contender frames banging around the local gunshops, almost exclusively in handgun configurations. Heard they had better triggers?

G2 is more likely to be an order out situation. Probably cheaper in the long run than buying the parts necessary to reconfigure a handgun...

-ktw

The G2 is a beefed up version. The handgunners seemed to shoot God-awful heavy loads in them. For normal cast bullet rifle loads, they're strong enough. There were a few factory modifications over the years but Thompson is as good as RCBS in customer service. If you get a used frame, send it to them to upgrade to the latest pre-G2 configureation. Only thing to watch out for are those made in "Armor Alloy". They were made for a short time only. They can be modified but best to avoid them. Don't worry about the caliber barrel on the frame you're looking at. Every part of it, barrel, sights, grip, everything but the frame, can be easily sold on Ebay. You can easily get $100 to $150 back frome sale of those parts, so you end up with the frame at a great price.

[Hunter]

Well I can comment on the GP 100 and the Marlin 1894. Both are excellent firearms but if I could choose only one it would be the GP 100. It can serve more functions then the 1894. They are excellent defensive/pistols and can be great range guns.

[Jon K]

Upgrade to G2?

That must be something new, because I thought the warranty policy is to repair or rebuild, and they are pretty good with that. I was not aware, that they will just give you a ne G2, because you ask for one.

I just had 2 frames rebuilt in the last year, and the more recent was really worn, it came back rebuilt with everything replaced, except for the trigger guard, pin and frame. All his was done in 15 days, how's that for service?

Have Fun Shooting,
Jon
:castmine:

[Jon K]

Upgrade to G2?

That must be something new, because I thought the warranty policy is to repair or rebuild, and they are pretty good with that. I was not aware, that they will just give you a ne G2, because you ask for one.

I just had 2 frames rebuilt in the last year, and the more recent was really worn, it came back rebuilt with everything replaced, except for the trigger guard, pin and frame. All this was done in 15 days, how's that for service?

Have Fun Shooting,
Jon
:castmine: