Proposal: Category for each Caliber?

[W.R.Buchanan]

I have noticed that many subjects get multiple threads started on them. An example is the threads about the .40S&W, and particularly the .40S&W "bulge busting" operation. There are three threads running right now, and I see the information being mutated the further they go. This is a problem of obvious concern to all here.

I am suggesting a Category for each popular pistol and rifle caliber. Similar to what is already here for leverguns, wheel guns, military rifles, reloading tools, gas checks. etc.

It's like we need a separate category for every popular caliber so we can keep all the info on that caliber together. Why not keep all the .44 Spec and .44 Mag stuff under one heading, and the same for all the most popular calibers.

That way if someone has question on the correct way to do something to a .30-30 load or bullet, then they would just go to the .30-30 category . You wouldn't find stuff about a .45 ACP in the .30-30 pile to confuse the issue.

Trying to search this stuff out is counterproductive, especially when a pertinent thread about something may not be entitled exactly as needed to come up in a search.

Also it would reduce the number of redundent threads, as people would see that a subject was already covered and read that thread, and if needed could ask questions on that thread, as opposed to creating a new thread just to ask a question that probably has been answered before.

Would it be possible for the moderators to look at this proposal and see if they could integrate this into the formatt?

When I say most popular calibers obviously everyones favorite and obscure popper might not be included. But there are also calibers that are more talked about here than others, and chances are most everything that applies to the .44 Magnum also applys to the .44 Special, .44 Russian, .44 American, and every other mutation of that round. All the mechanics of bullet sizing and loading are essentially the same for all of the rounds in this category. And the same holds true for many many other groups of cartridges.

With respect to rifle cartridges there are going to be the more popular rounds like .30-30 .308, .30-06, .45-70 which deserve a category unto themselves, but there are also going to be rounds like 7.5 Swiss, or .7.63 Argentine Mauser, etc.

Less popular rounds like these could be grouped into a "Misc .30 ish calibers " category, and this would be done for other cartridge sizes as well.

Obviously there are alot of cartridges to cover, but other than the most popular sizes there doesn't need to be a specific category for each and everyone. Here's the deal if you understand how to load for the .30-30 ,.30-06, and .308 you can figure out how to load for the 7.63X53. All the mechanics are the same only the powder types and charges are different, and even they are not "that" different!. We all have reloading manuals for that data.

I would like to see some discussion on this proposal, and see if the moderators could include a vehicle such as this into the site format.

Randy

[btroj]

I would not like it. Too many different sub sites to look at. I enjoy reading about some cartridges I don't load for and the single sub section makes it easier to read up on stuff.
I look at it this way- if you load for only a cartridge or two the Loadbooks USA books are nice. If you load for lots of cartridges or want to compare cartridges they are not so good, a Lyman type book is easier to use.
I think this site is about maxed out on sub sections, more would make it more difficult, not easier, to navigate.

Brad

[303Guy]

At Least Cast Rifle and Cast Pistol and Revolver. Not sure where Handguns firing rifle cartridges would fit in.

[geargnasher]

I'm confused again. Don't we have subforums for all kinds of guns? Am I the only one who goes there and notices that most of the topics involve shooting cast in these guns, particularly the hows and whys and whatthehecks? I fail to see any point in furthere chopping it up.

One thing I do see a lot of is posts in "cast boolits" that belong somewhere else, but are posted there anyway because the OP wants the exposure. Problem is, it plugs up the works and invites lots of input from people who might not have anything real to contribute (like me sometimes!). Sometimes I post things in Castboolits that could be put somewhere else, but if I think they are of a wider value than just one subforum, I put it in the general castboolits area.

Gear

[45nut]

again, we have more than 50 areas already, I will not be going with this idea.

[kelbro]

I cast for several calibers and already open 5 or 6 subs every time I visit. I agree with not adding more subs.

[waksupi]

Trying to do it on this board would be a real fluster cluck. My most reliable way to find info is to do a Google search for what you need to know. The search will generally lead you right back to this board.

[W.R.Buchanan]

Nevermind.

[sqlbullet]

Wiki.

There are some people here who are very opinionated against a wiki, primarily because of either lack of understanding or prejudice.

However, what you want is a made to order for a Wiki. Indexed content by subject. Easily cross-referenced for accuracy. Content managed so when some yahoo puts garbage in, the admin/moderator for that page can roll it out.

[cbrick]

I think trying to make a forum for each caliber could quickly surpass in size the entire Castboolits site. It amazes me that Ken & company can keep track of and keep what is already here running this smoothly, this effectively.

A forum for each caliber? Nightmare time!

Rick

[Doby45]

Then we could add a seperate forum for each powder made. ;)

[Rocky Raab]

Just for starters, it would be extremely confusing if we used the word "caliber". It does NOT mean specific chamberings, as the OP suggests.

Kudos to the board chief for vetoing this idea.

[mdi]

On another forum I frequent, there are catagories for each specific step of casting bullets (casting, accuracy, cast bullet discussion, molds, lube, lube equipment, etc., etc.). The results are some dead forums, that may see a new post once or twice a month, and one or two that are just dead...

[W.R.Buchanan]

OK I get the idea There's a bunch of reason why not to do this.

The point of this proposal was to try to consolidate info about one subject into a single place so people could find it. The whole point was "most popular cartridges" not every single cartridge.

If you read my original post close enough you would have no choice but to agree with the overall concept,,,

The logistics of actually doing it seem to be the main problem with the idea.

Why don't you do a poll?, and find out what the most popular rifle and most popular pistol cartridges are. I bet the results would look something like this.

Pistol #1. .44 and.45 , #2. 38/357, #3. 9mm/.40S&W #4 the rest

Rifle: #1 .30-06/.308, #2 .45-70 #3 the rest.

This certainly is "not that many" categories

I asked if it COULD be made to work? , not all the reasons why it wouldn't work. I not suggesting a complete remodel of the site, I'm just trying to cut down on the number of redundent posts that get mutated down to where people don't understand what they are reading and can't figure out why they can't make something work.

Case in point: .40S&W bulge buster threads. there are 3 in the last week all in different places. One guy is wondering why his bullets won't stay in place? he was using the crimp die to full length size the case!!! Even though it was explictly stated several times on 2 or more of the posts that the crimp die was only used to remove the bulge !!! Some how other people picked up on this idea and it spread. mainly because the 3 threads were located in different categories, and people weren't seeing the other posts. As soon as a new thread shows up nobody looks at the older ones. This encourages redundent posts.

This is where the problem lies. It also harks to the meaning of the "Knowing versus Understanding" thread I posted 2 weeks ago. People don't understand what they read unless they read it over and over. Several on this thread have commented after just reading the title of the thread. I just edited the title to read "most popular calibers." to stop this.

Also I'm thinkin' there are probably a few existing categories that could either be consolidated or just plain dropped. I see several that have not been visited or only visited by one person in the last week.

Examples: 3 categories for Casting Equipment, Casting and Reloading Handtools, and Reloading Equipment could all be consolidated into one or two. BP Paper Patching and Smokeless Paper Patching could be consolidated into one.

Looking for discussion to see if these ideas could be integrated, not just outright dismissal.

Guys,,, I'm a conservative too. This is not change for the sake of change. This could be a good thing!

Randy

[Doby45]

Welcome to the world of forums. It is not specific to this forum but to all forums. You can place the top 10 most asked questions on the whole forum in a sticky and let eeryone know to go read that sticky prior to asking a question. You will find people still do not read the sticky and they WILL continue to ask the same questions.

Forums work much better when you have a membership that wants to help themselves prior to having someone else help them. Now if you have a membership that wants to always be helped by others and spoon fed information then you will continue to have much of the same stuff rehashed, regardless of you attempts to prevent it.

See it isn't so much the forum or the format that needs to change as much as it is the people need to change. And as I stated at the beginning this affects every single forum I have ever participated in, up to and including the one I owned and ran.

[W.R.Buchanan]

Doby: I totally agree with your assessment. And believe me I have 'helped' many a person on other forums who was just overwhelmed buy the amount of information available and needed direction.

Some benefit and then start looking to find the info themselves, others want to keep you feeding them the info. The info I feed them is usually a healthy dose of "get off your ****" and find it yourself.

The whole jist of my thread entitled "knowing versus understanding" was to get people to do a better job of reading themselves and thus not annoy others with redundent questions. Apparently
that message has been forgotten.

I'll probably just start biting my tongue instead of trying to correct the petty foibles of others. Sometimes it is just better to learn by doing.

Randy

[303Guy]

For what it's worth, I think separating cast boolits for pistols/revolvers and rifles would benefit me. It's not about caliber to me it's simply about rifles and pistols. If you load only for rifles you will see what I mean. There so many active pistol casting threads going that rifle casting threads get swamped.:Fire:

[btroj]

For cartridge specific do we need one each for 45 Colt and 45 Long Colt?

[stubshaft]

I hear ya Randy. Too many noobs seem to skip the basics and want the ideal boolit, mold, load, lube. How many times a WEEK do you see threads about TL, what boolit?, which lube?, which load? It's not rocket science but if you don't do it yourself how the heck are you going to learn!

I visit a few other sites and some oof them have gotten so many subforums that I don't bother going there anymore. Just my .02$

[ktw]

The point of this proposal was to try to consolidate info about one subject into a single place so people could find it. The whole point was "most popular cartridges" not every single cartridge.


The format of the forums is conversational rather than archival. This was also true back in the early days of the internet with Usenet News.

The Usenet News solution to the problem you describe was the Frequently Asked Questions document. (http://www.faqs.org/usenet/) The purpose of the Usenet FAQ was to drive down superfluous and redundant message traffic in the forums. There is less incentive for the site owners to do that here on these "commercial" forums as message traffic and page views help drive advertising revenue

All it takes to have a FAQ is for someone to step up and start maintaining one. JoeB did something along these lines with his online bullet casting book. There are documents on Cast Pics and on the the LASC site that also fulfill this role. I periodically keep up a list of links to the various manufacture's bullet design catalogs (http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?t=36355) in the sticky forum.

The wikis have come along to supersede the FAQs in many respects. Their main strength over the FAQs is that a FAQ document is usually an individual effort whereas the wikis are maintained by many people in collaboration.

-ktw

[waksupi]

Individuals just need to do some research on their own here. So many topics overlap, it would be pretty hard to separate them. One guy was coming into chat for answers, and after quite a few visits, it had become apparent he had not even bothered with looking at the forum for the advise. And this is a topic that DOES have it's own section. After he finally looked, he found pretty much every thing he needs to know.

[Jim]

Well I for one just taking care of the swapping and selling forum can see a huge work load for some one viewing all the posts from day to day just to keep them in the proper place!

That's the first thing I thought about and I don't even have that responsibility.

[alamogunr]

My concern with additional categories is: Where does it end. Someone will always want another category for something. With the phenomenal growth of this forum, the membership consists of many different interests.

As an apples to oranges comparison, take a look at Graybeard Outdoors. Out of curiosity I counted the categories and came up with 207 more or less. I lurk there on a few of the categories but until I counted I had no idea that some of them existed. As I said, it is an apples to oranges comparison since they have many categories that would have no place here. Examples of categories that to me would be marginal: Left Hand Firearms and Equipment (http://www.go2gbo.com/forums/index.php/board,194.0.html), Bikers who hunt and shoot, (http://www.go2gbo.com/forums/index.php/board,231.0.html)Hunting in(Name your state or region). (http://www.go2gbo.com/forums/index.php/board,246.0.html)

I picked those categories from Graybeard at random. I am sure there are some here that would like to see something like these or some others that could be named.

I guess I am saying that I have enough problem checking in on those categories that interest me without worrying that I'm missing something interesting because there are too many places to check.

FWIW
John
W.TN

[mdi]

W.R., thanks for your thoughts about improving the forum. I would think, rather than change/add sub-forums is to have a useable "search" function. (true, many ignore "stickies", but some know how to "search"). This would solve many cartridge specific/firearm specific/powder specific, etc., questions. I've only been a member for about 3 years, but lurked a couple years before that, and have never been satisfied with the available search. Rarely, if ever find what I am looking for so I'll go to Google hoping for a referral back to Cast Boolits. I tried "spire point bullets in 30-30" (a project I'm working on now), and only read down to the 10th answer/post and nothing mentioned about spire point bullets in 30-30. I'm surely not gonna quit coming here just because of that though...

Hey jes my .02

[Longwood]

Individuals just need to do s.ome research on their own here.

One guy was coming i After he finally looked, he found pretty much every thing he needs to know.

I have been on this sight for over six months and while I find it to be an awsome site that is very helpful, I do have a very difficult time finding the thread, forum, info that I am interested in.
Like mdi suggested, I would love to see an easier and or better way of searching the archives. I would much rather do that than bug members for an answer to one of my dumb questions.
I never have found the section where the directions for using the site are.
It took me forever to find the very well hidden Forum Jump box. It sure seems like it would be more useful if it was much easier to find and use.
When I do ask a question, sometimes it seems the thread gets buried right away and I never know if someone bothered answering or not.
One guy said it is time to get off your ass and do some looking. Seems like it is more like it is time to sit down on my fat ass and spend a huge amount of time trying to find an answer to a question that has been already been asked and answered many times.
I sure would like to see a section where there are photos which are arranged by subject. Maybe in groups or albums that have say, melting pots, or home made stuff with the links to the related thread.

[btroj]

While the search function isn't great I have found it to work well enough.
As for people needing to read and learn more before asking a question- Absolutely!

This forum is for sharing information, i don't view it as a school for learning all that is needed.

[W.R.Buchanan]

After reading this round of comments I would suggest a "thread watch list" function. Trapshooters.com has this function, and it is very easy to keep track of threads that interest you and that you have commented on, or ones you want to have quick reference to.

You go on to the site and sign in, then click on your thread watch list, and then you can quickly check in on ones you are active on. You can also delete ones you are no longer interested in and remove them from your list.

I personally have about 18 threads on my watch list there that I keep for reference, and then others come an go as they go in and out of discussion.

This way I can go directly to a thread about loading .40S&W which I took over and ran to 175 posts! It had more info on loading this cartridge safely in one place than any other place I have seen. On a Trapshooting forum no less!

Everybody on that forum, which has literally thousands of members, has their own thread watch list. It is a normal function of the site's format .

It's like everyone would have their own separate archive they could consult any time they choose, but everything would continue as it is being done but for the exception of having that onethread storage function available.

It also makes it easy to monitor prices on stuff being sold and keep track of things you might like to buy but don't sell immediately. Highend shotguns can sit on that forum for months, and then all of a sudden sell for their original asking price. They just have to be present when the right buyer shows up and sees them. Lots of time these things are bought buy people who have been monitoring them for a long time but needed to get the money together. The origianl post might be burried under 6 months of posts and you'd never find it if you didn't have it flagged, mainly because the guy who owns probably gave up trying to sell months ago.

I bought a very nice .44 revolver off a guy who had put it on the site before last christmas. I had the thread flagged but it was months deep in the site. One click got me back to it.

This may or maynot be available to this forum format. I have not seen this function on other forums which are done on this format.

Just another idea to mull over that would definately improve the show here.:lovebooli

Randy

[Von Gruff]

Not surprisingly, it is someone who has been here for a couple of months who wants to change things to suit his requirements.
This is an extremely well run and organised forum and it is the searching out of the gems of information and finding nuggets of inspiration along the way that makes my visit each day a time I look forward to.
Todays demand for instant gratification without the search and learn leaves many lacking in the pleasure of the find.

Von Gruff.

[ihmsakiwi]

[QUOTE=303Guy;1264400]At Least Cast Rifle and Cast Pistol and Revolver. Not sure where Handguns firing rifle cartridges would fit in.[/QUOTE
Wow 303 guy, they are the most important category!!
My pistols shoot; 7mmBR, 7TCU, 7mmIHMSA, 30/30, 6mmBR, 6.5mmBR, 7mm Super Mag and 223.

[303Guy]

... they are the most important category!! I meant would they fit in under pistol or rifle. :mrgreen:

It's just that "Cast Boolits" catagory is so popular that it's difficult for me to just read the rifle or rifle caliber cast boolit threads. Perhaps a sub-catagory filter would work. Filters would be great because they would be retrospective - providing the original thread was initially identified as rifle or pistol. Mind you, just being able to filter 'read' threads would make searches easier.

P.S. Longwood, that's not exactly the smallest spider (or picture of) I've ever seen!:holysheep

[Cap'n Morgan]

What we need is an eye catching "LOOKING FOR INFORMATION?" or similar named link on the front page which points to a short explanation of how to use Google's Advanced Search to find stuff. Just adding "castboolits.gunloads.com" in the domaine field along with a few keywords will almost guaranteed come up with more information than you can digest.

An example: The phrase, "lapping a mould" resulted in more threads than I care to count:
http://www.google.dk/search?q=lapping+a+mould+site:castboolits.gunloads .com&hl=en&num=10&lr=&ft=i&cr=&safe=off&tbs=

It's the old "Teach a man to fish..." proverb put to use.

[W.R.Buchanan]

Fishhawk: Could you show me directly to that function. I am a member of a dozen forums with this exact same format. I haven't found it yet. If I am missing something feel free to correct me. Never claimed to know everything about these places. I would sure like to use that function.

Von Gruff: A few days ago. I got into my car and noticed the the key would no longer turn the ignition switch on. It was worn out, and needed to be replaced. I have had that car for 7-8 years now, but I assure you I would have figured it was broke even if I had only owned it for a week. Some things just come to the surface quicker than others.

The fact I'm "newer" here doesn't mean Ship, I've been doing the forum thing since 1998 when they first started. The fact that I am willing so offer up suggestions that might improve the overall experience should be welcomed. You'll notice the thread is on it's second page now, and people keep commenting. This is a discussion forum! The idea is to discuss.

The "Dutchman", moderator of the Swedish Mauser forum decided to label me as a "newbie" several years ago on that forum because he didn't like me complaining about the ludricrous prices of certain rifles that were just being exploited by the market. The continued tone of his responses to my posts was offensive to me and others as well, I left shortly there after as it was obvious my presence was not needed or wanted.

Randy

[W.R.Buchanan]

Thank You Fish Hawk !!!!! That works great. Now I can go to about 6 other forums and find threads I'd lost.:Fire:

I had no idea that this function existed and I have been on forums with this same format for years. just shows ta go ya, You never stop learning. :grin:

Thanks alot

Randy

[MT Gianni]

If you go to your UserCp you can follow through your previous posts also. Or click on your name and go to statistics and click on threads posted in.

[white eagle]

alot of issues are not cal.specific
and the information about a problem for one cal...
may hep someone else with the same problem
but a different caliber

[nanuk]

when you subscribe to a thread, you can also receive automated email messages when there are new posts

my big issue is with the search functions. not only on this site but others.

You can't search for 9.3... you need at least 4 characters or something. and then hope someone posted using the exact match. Google would work better for that.

also, multiple word queries don't seem to work for me... it only searches for the first word. even if I use parentheses...

other than that, I find the site HUGE enough.

I am here to learn and be entertained. But I need to open a few subforums to see if there is anything in my interests.

as an example: I am interested in researching my Mauser98 in 7.62x51...
I first check out classics and stickies and do several searches
then I open Castboolits.. and again.. several searches
then moulds and mould design.. and.. you guessed it... searching....
then military
then fav cartridge
then military


if I try to search using the main search page, I am overwhelmed at the replys..

then there is the archives... I still can't seem to figure out how to search effectively in the archives...

but I am learning

[W.R.Buchanan]

Being able to flag specific threads of interest is great. I have about 20 of them flagged now, and a bunch others on some other forums that use this exact same format. My 4BT Swaps.com diesel swap site being one of the ones I have the most posting on and several other friends there as well. I will no longer have to hunt for their threads, as I can now just go to them thru the CP.

However you will still have to look at all of the sub categories you frequent to see what's new. So that won't change.

But if you are having a conversation with somebody you can go directly to that conversation by jsut using the CP.

This is a big revelation for me, and I hope this helps somebody else find their way around this and other forums.

Isn't technology great? Learning how to use it is even better.

Randy