Accurize an Ace?

[fourarmed]

I have a nice old brown-box Colt .22 conversion unit for which I put together a dedicated frame. It functions fine except for an occasional misfire, but the accuracy leaves a lot to be desired. It seems to do best with standard velocity match stuff, but 3-4 inches at 25 yds is about all I can expect to get out of it, and some ammo does considerably worse. Has anybody ever tuned one of these up? I have a hazy memory of seeing an article on this somewhere years ago, but don't recall where.

Also, when I take it down for cleaning, the floating chamber is always locked solidly to the barrel from fouling. Doesn't seem to matter if I lube it or not, or what lube I use. Any recommendations here?

[45nut]

I have a original Colt 22 Conversion myself,very troublesome with cheap ammo. I could only get a few rounds downrange before the chamber would lock,freezing the gun.
I went to using mini-mag cci's and the problem went away. It seems the higher velocity ammo keeps the chamber locked just long enough to prevent the fouling and lock up. Stingers work with equal utility,but the co$t of the stingers ,,whoo-weee.

[StarMetal]

The newer 22 conversions don't use that floating chamber anymore. I think later on Colt even dropped it, not sure.

Joe

[fourarmed]

It was the other way around, Joe. The first Ace was straight blowback with a light slide. Then they came out with a heavier slide and the floating chamber to increase recoil...the idea being to make it feel more like the .45. They called this the Service Model Ace, and the conversion units were made the same way. There may have been some very early conversion units that didn't have the floating chamber, but I haven't heard of them.

The odd thing is that mine functions fine whether the chamber is stuck or not. My guess is that the pressure is high enough to make the chamber recoil in spite of the fouling. It is just stuck enough to be hard to remove for cleaning.

[StarMetal]

You just mentioned the key words there fourarmed, about yours working whether the chamber is stuck or not. Think about, you don't need the chamber and the only reason they added it was to simulate the recoil of the 45 acp, which in todays conversions, they don't care about simulating the recoil anymore.

Joe

[fourarmed]

OK, so, nobody's ever tuned one of these or remembers the article? Damn, I hate to outsource for my info.

[Herb in Pa]

I bought the conversion with the floating chamber new in the mid 70's. I polished the portion of the floating chamber that fits in the barrel with 600 grit paper and it eliminated my problem. I installed the unit on an aluminum AMT frame and it really simulates recoil!

[StarMetal]

Yes I read articles. You do the same things as you do to a 45 acp. Number is fit a match bushing to the Ace barrel. A trigger job is essential to any caliber. You can tighten up the slide to frame tolerance, BUT being the 22 needs all the poop it can get to cycle the slide, I'm not so sure I'd do this. On 45's you get the barrel locking lugs as far into the slide recesses for them as you can. This is done by building up the lug on the barrel, reshaping it, adding a correct matching longer links, and matching the slide stop pin to the hole in the link and frame. That is as tight fitting one you can find. Then you build up the rear of the barrel (unless it's oversized match barrel that you have to fit) then worke it up to fit as tight to the slide and still function locking and unlocking out of the slide. Now these last things I don't think you want to mess with. I'd go for a match fit barrel bushing and tuned trigger and leave it go at that. Personally the other after market ones like the Kimbers, Cieners, etc. shoot pretty darn good because they aren't made on the same principles as the Colt one.

Joe

[Herb in Pa]

The original intent of the Ace with the floating chamber was to simulate the recoil, not the accuracy level of the 45. I agree with Starmetal on the accurizing of the 45 - I have a 70 series Gold Cup that was accurized by an Air Force armorer for me. It's got a Kart match barrel, solid bushing and the lugs and slide fitted to the frame. I've got a test target fired at 50 yards (10 shots) from a ransom rest that measures a tad over 1.5" at 50 yards.

[fourarmed]

Thanks Herb, for the polishing idea. If the gun will function with OR without movement of the chamber, that might make a big improvement in the accuracy - and maybe the ignition, too. I know a bit about .45 tuning, but aside from bushing fit and slide tightening, there isn't much similarity. I would really like to know if anybody has tried fitting an oversized slide stop. That seems to be the critical anchoring point for the rear of the barrel.

[Willbird]

Wild Bill Caldwell over at pistolsmith.com had some info on an ace conversion he was working with, he put a briley bushing in it I think.

the purpose of the flating chamber is to make the unit work with a normal weight slide, some of the newer units with no floating chamber use an aluminum slide.

Carbine Williams developed a 22 conversion for a browning beltfed machine gun, it took him only a few days, he was said to have said sewing the tiny belts was actually what took him so long. He did that while in prison too as I recall, along with design the 30 carbine rifle.

Bill

[StarMetal]

Herb

Fitting an oversized stop to what, a 22 Conversion or 45 acp 1911?

Joe

[Herb in Pa]

Herb

Fitting an oversized stop to what, a 22 Conversion or 45 acp 1911?

Joe

Joe - Fourarmed was talking about the oversized slide stop.

[StarMetal]

Okay, here what you do to fit an oversized slide stop pin. You can either buy or make a tool that holds the rear of the barrel up into full battery. It's usually a rod device that fits thru the bushing tang there where the recoil spring tube is. Then you can either use a lug cutter tool or a proper diameter round file and cut that semicircle in the barrel lug. What you have is the barrel locked up tight fully in the rear. The lug should be oversized and when you look through the slide stop pin hole you will see that the lug blocks part of it. That is what you will be cutting or filing to the proper size and distance. One thing, when you buy an oversize slide stop pin, mike it to make sure it is. I had to go through alot to find one. It's not easy cutting that lug, it's tedious and time consuming. When you are finish and you fitted the proper lenght link, with you gun locked up in full battery, push down on the barrel hood portion that is accessible through the slide window. If there is any movement, the lug was cut too big. Personally I would just fit a match bushing, which isn't too easy either, and let it go with that if we're talking the 22 barrel. I would assume you have a half decent trigger to start with.

Joe

[fourarmed]

Thanks Joe, but the problem is that the .22 conversion doesn't work that way. The slide stop just goes through a hole in the barrel lug. There is no movement of the rear of the barrel.

[StarMetal]

Well like I said, I'd install just the match bushing and work the trigger. In fact I'd leave it alone and but a dedicated quality target pistol if I wanted serious groups.

Joe

[Willbird]

There are a couple of 22 uppers out there now that are extremely accurate, if I was dead set on having a 22 setup to use my 1911 lower that is what I would do.

It doesnt make sense to me not to buy a 22 target pistol instead, but some folks just love the 22 conversions...more power to them.

Bill

[fourarmed]

And some folks insist on both. I have four excellent High Standards for punching paper competitively. I use the Colt .22 to practice speed work from the holster. Saves on wheelweights. My smallbore plates require fairly good accuracy - better than the conv. unit now delivers. As it is now, I can't count on better than 4 or 5 inches at 25 yards. I looked at the thread Willbird mentioned on pistolsmith.com. Had some good pointers. There was discussion of installing a Briley spherical bushing. My .22 barrel has a pretty sharp step up to the muzzle diameter, unlike the .45 barrels I have seen. A chamfer on the front of a solid bushing works OK, but I have my doubts about the Briley. I think I will try polishing the floating chamber first, and if that doesn't help, then I'll try installing an oversize bushing and slide stop.

[Catshooter]

One thing you said that caught my attention was an 'old' conversion unit. Is it?

I inherited my dad's HS HD Military which had been in an uncle's 'care' for 40 or 50 years. It would only give me three inch groups at 65 feet. So I fire-lapped it, and then took it back to the range with the same box of ammo that gave me three inches it now did less than an inch. Seems like over the years tiny tiny little points of rust accumulate in the bore. Not good for accuracy. Fire-lapping cured it.

Just my .02.


Cat