.222 Rem Vs. .223 Rem for cast bullets

[Wally]

Just curious...has anyone compared shooting cast bullets in both calibers with a bolt action rifle--say a Rem 700? The reason that I ask is that it seems that the .222 Rem is far superior in comparison to the .223 Rem, all things else being equal.

I have a 700 Rem in the .223 Rem and have never obtained the consistency with it using cast bullets--but I have done so in the .22-250 Rem caliber. I am considering having the .223 rebarreled to .222 Rem caliber.

[felix]

Twist is the major culprit with factory barrels. 222 standard is 14, and so is the 22-250 with 14, so you would be OK with either. OR, a custom barrel in 223 if you want to use the cases you have. If so, have the smithy give you a 222 standard throat in that 223. If he does not know what standard is, specify zero freebore with 1.5 degree sloping shoulders. ... felix

[Wally]

Felix my .223 Rem & .22-250 700's both have a 1 in 12 twist...the .22-250 will shoot 2.5~3" groups at 200 yards with the RCBS-GC bullet with 8.0 grains of Unique...the .223 is lucky to give me 6".

[rhbrink]

I vote for the 222 it has the longest neck and longer is better.

[Wally]

rhbrink, I have heard that as well. The .22-250 has a longer case neck than does the .223 and that may be why it is so much more accurate with cast bullets.

[felix]

If what you say is satisfactory, then with powder/primer manipulation you can obtain equal accuracy. ... felix

[Wally]

Felix...I am working on that trying to load the .223 longer so the bullet touches the lands and experimenting with lower/different powder charges. From what I understand the .222 Rem is far less finicky... If I don't succeed..I will rebarrel in the .222 Rem caliber

[felix]

Yes, the 222's case capacity is near optimum for the 224 boolit diameter using mainline component materials. ... felix

[Wally]

Felix...I don't disagree---but my .22-250 does very well and it is most certainly not a optimimal sized case for cast bullets....

[BCall]

I love the 222, but you could always rechamber the 223 to 222 Mag. It's a simple rechamber, and you get a longer neck like the 222, with the 223 case capacity. And can shorten/clean up the throat in the process. If the 222 mag doesn't work out, you aren't out much and can still rebarrel to 222. Presonally, I don't own a 223, but I do have a couple of 222's and a 222 mag.

[felix]

Back to YOUR own answer: The reason that I ask is that it seems that the .222 Rem is far superior in comparison to the .223 Rem, all things else being equal. So, what do you want from us? ... felix

[Wally]

What I'd like to know, for those that have shot both the .222 & the .223 Rem with cast---has anyone ever found the .223 equal to the .222 Rem?

[stubshaft]

FWIW - The .222 used to be the standard which all other benchrest cartridges were judged by. I have both of the cartridges in question and I find the triple deuce to be superior with cast boolits. That doesn't mean that I will be getting rid of all of my .223's just yet though.

[Wally]

FWIW - The .222 used to be the standard which all other benchrest cartridges were judged by. I have both of the cartridges in question and I find the triple deuce to be superior with cast boolits. That doesn't mean that I will be getting rid of all of my .223's just yet though.

What is your best guess as to why that is...when you compare the two there is very little difference....

[felix]

System harmonics. ... felix

[Bullshop]

One rule of thumb is that at equal velocity the 22/250 will have a lower pressure than the 223 so should be potentialy more accurate.
There are other rules in play that can cancel each other as well so you have a catch 22.

[GabbyM]

Brownells usualy carries 223 barrels in 1-14" twist for Rem 700.
Thought I may be wanting one when I started casting for my Rem 700 varmint rifle with 12 twist. Loaded 14.5 grains of 4198 under a boolit and it shoots one raged hole at fifty yards.
it shoots J bullets inside a 3/8" group at 100 yards and a half inch at 200. Barrel has about three thousand rounds on it. Think I'll leave it alone and move on to the next project.

If your 223 isn't shooting good it's something other than the caliber. Granted a 222 with 14 twist barrel would be the top choice between the two. But I'd hate to buy another set of dies just for it.

[Wally]

Bullshop....I might be on to something. In the .22-250 I used 10.0 grains of Unique..accuracy was not very good..when I reduced to 8.0 grains the groups dramatically shrunk. I am thinking with the .223 Rem I have to do the same--reduce the powder charge until I hit the "sweet spot"... With the .223 Rem w/ cast there have been days that it shoots very accurately--then on others, the accuarcy is disgusting.

[stubshaft]

What is your best guess as to why that is...when you compare the two there is very little difference....

like Felix said system harmonics, flame propagation based on capacity.

[Larry Gibson]

I've compared both in M788s and M700Vs. The 222 Rem wins almost hands down every time because of the 14" twist and the longer neck.

Larry Gibson

[Three-Fifty-Seven]

Here are a few other threads:
http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?t=106161

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?t=106201

I still have not bought a 222 yet, just finally this past weekend sold off two guns . . . now I can look for two more, one of which will be a .222!

[Bullshop]

Oh goody I just happen to have a 222 for sale. CZ BRNO ZBK 1010

[Wally]

I've compared both in M788s and M700Vs. The 222 Rem wins almost hands down every time because of the 14" twist and the longer neck.

Larry Gibson

Thank you Larry---you've told me what I wanted to know

[felix]

Any effects because of a longer neck can be overcome with a very slight change in powder ignition, assuming a next to perfect alignment. The longer neck comes into play when adjusting seating length. The neck length in a new barrel should be chosen to allow full seating of the boolit of choice for the twist. If in doubt, then a longer neck would allow for a wider choice in boolit selection. ... felix

[Wally]

felix, I will try reduced powder charges as this did work for me in the .22-250 Rem with cast bullets. Maybe, just maybe that will work.