1st pass lubing for Lee sizers?

[prickett]

Does anyone have a clever way to lube bullets for the sizing step when using Lee sizers?

I intend to use LLA/JPW/MS for AFTER I size, but what do you all do to lube for the first pass? I'm thinking something that is dead simple, quick, maybe spray on, and possibly water soluble (not sure if that is necessary).

TIA

[RobS]

Spray on case lube works for some, I've heard of some using dish soap then washing them off. Cutting down on the mess, I prefer to lube a hand full of boolits and then run one through every 15 or 20 dry. If you are tumble lubing then I would lube and let them dry before running 1 for every 15 or 20.

[geargnasher]

The 45/45/10 dries so fast, I just coat them once before and once after. Make certain the lube is completely dry before sizing, even straight LLA doesn't lube worth a hoot when wet.

Gear

[rbertalotto]

Hornady "One Shot" case lube........and then place bullets on an old towel and spray with alcohol. The case lube simply evaporates with the alcohol.

Now bullets are free of all lube and your lube will stick very well.

[-06]

I have jammed two bottleneck cases trying to be lazy and use "One Shot". I no longer use it on anything other than straight walled rounds. It may be great for resizing but be careful on other uses.

[2wheelDuke]

I do my 45/45/10 in 2 coats. Just a tiny little bit goes a decent way for the first lubing.

I usually do the 1st coat on a batch as one of the last things I do when I'm working on stuff, then I leave them out to dry on a sheet of non-stick aluminum foil. It dries quick, but I hate waiting, so if I leave it overnight, it's good to go with no doubts.

[Buddy]

Yesterday just for giggles I tossed a handfull on a towel and gave them a quick blast of RemOil. They ran thru just fine. Then rolled them around on another towel and TL'd them. They turned out a little sticky.

[nwellons]

Since I pan lube and shoot BP cartridges, I use un-diluted cheap dishwashing soap for lubing before sizing. Then I throw all in a bowl, run water until the soap is gone and let dry. The soap lube works great.

[evan price]

When I have to size, I give them a light TL first, then push through size, then TL again.
Works perfect.

[Moonie]

I've used dish soap and it does work but I only use it when in a hurry, I prefer 45/45/10 first and then again after.

A little goes a long way.

[rbertalotto]

Folks that have problems with One Shot don't let it dry on the cases. I've been using it for years and have sized hundreds of thousands of cases with it. Never an issue............Spray it on, busy yourself with something else for 15 minutes......Go!

[RobS]

Folks that have problems with One Shot don't let it dry on the cases. I've been using it for years and have sized hundreds of thousands of cases with it. Never an issue............Spray it on, busy yourself with something else for 15 minutes......Go!

Lubing boolits here.

[prickett]

Thanks for the answers! I'm thinking the liquid soap might get my vote. When I tumble lube, I heat up the LLA, the boolits, and the wax cooked out of JPW (I mix the LLA and wax at lube time). It takes 5 or 10 minutes to get everything heated up so the lube goes on evenly. So, I prefer to not have to do that twice. Sounds like the liquid soap is simple and quick enough.

[Crusty Deary Ol'Coot]

OK, what am I missing here??????????????????

I recently rec'd a great new mold, .462-465gr from Bruce - BRP Products - and during the ordering process, he recommended I also order a Lee type push through boolit sizing die .460 from Buckshot and also a .461 sizer luber die for the lubing process.

The seating of the gas check and sizing to .460 is a no stress and very quick process with the Lee type push through die mounted in my RCBS Rockchucker press.

Sooooooooo, unless your pre - lube step before the trip through the push through die is just part of your lubing process, why are you needing to lube the boolit before that step????????????

Like I said, what am I missing here?

The 45cal., 465gr boolits are going through my Lee style push through die with almost zero effort, and coming out GREAT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Keep em coming!

Crusty Deary Ol'Coot

[bumpo628]

When I have to size, I give them a light TL first, then push through size, then TL again.
Works perfect.

Ditto.

[firebrick43]

I have some hornady unique case lube that I use. Just a touch on the finger that you are setting the bullet on the pusher with. Every 20 bullets or so another light touch. No issues with TL afterwards. No cleaning gunk out of dies.

[timkelley]

Put your Boolits in slightly soapy water. Size them right out of the water while they are still wet, let dry and lube

[zomby woof]

I tried soap and had to use some water. Not again on my press. I made up some "Bootleg case lube" out of Lanolin and denatured alcohol. A quick squirt and the boolits slide right through. it helps the lube stick too. I highly recommend.

[Crusty Deary Ol'Coot]

Sorry, ---------- but asking again, why do you need to lube the boolit before the past through the Lee style push through die?

Is this something Lee recommends or??????

As I stated a few posts back, I am pushing a .462/465gr boolit through a Lee style push through die on my Rochchucker press with zero problem/effort.

What am I missing?

Keep em coming!

Crusty Deary Ol'Coot

[Ben]

When sizing 148 gr. , 38 cal. Wadcutters in the Lee Push Thru sizers, I keep a little bit of wheel bearing grease on a pad close to the press. I put a VERY THIN coat of the grease on about every 3rd. bullet. They slide through smoothly and I've never had any lead build up in the sizer die.

[pisarski]

yes lee wants you to lube then size and lube one more time

[Crusty Deary Ol'Coot]

Well, seems like no one wants to answer my 2 questions in regards to this subject.

Sooooooo, I contacted "Buckshot" about the push through die he made for me, and addressed the situation to him.

Not being a big Lee fan, I am not surprised at his answer.

Apparently there are some quality/design differences between Buckshot's product and the Lee. Not surprising!

In answer to my question of possibly doing damage to my push through die by NOT pre-lubing before seating the gas check and pushing the boolit through, Buckshot says it won't happen.

For that reason, why in the world would I go to the extra effort to pre-lube my .462/465gr boolits before the trip through the die, when they go through the .460 die with close to zero effort.

Again, I ask those of you who have posted about this, why - what am I missing here.

Keep em coming!

Crusty Deary Ol'Coot

[Moonie]

Crusty Dreary Ol'Coot, I've heard that they can lead if you do not use lube. I'm sure this isn't a problem with Buckshot's product as I'm sure the finish is much better on his.

[RobS]

Well, seems like no one wants to answer my 2 questions in regards to this subject.

Sooooooo, I contacted "Buckshot" about the push through die he made for me, and addressed the situation to him.

Not being a big Lee fan, I am not surprised at his answer.

Apparently there are some quality/design differences between Buckshot's product and the Lee. Not surprising!

In answer to my question of possibly doing damage to my push through die by NOT pre-lubing before seating the gas check and pushing the boolit through, Buckshot says it won't happen.

For that reason, why in the world would I go to the extra effort to pre-lube my .462/465gr boolits before the trip through the die, when they go through the .460 die with close to zero effort.

Again, I ask those of you who have posted about this, why - what am I missing here.

Keep em coming!

Crusty Deary Ol'Coot

I've simply found that it's easier to size the boolits down with a lube, but I don't push through with a wet boolit due to the mess and I don't use alox TL anymore either. I use a traditional lubed bullet every 15 or 20 bullets if the die needs it for sizing ease. Some designs need very little sizing so might not need any lube but some of the disigns I have need a bit to keep things going.

[Crusty Deary Ol'Coot]

THANKS!!!, RobS & Moonie !!!!!!!!!!

Having not used a "push through" type boolit sizing die before this one, I was finding myself out in left field with the many posts on this thread.

Guess if I could read a set of Lee directions it might have helped to know what was being written about, but with Buckshot's answer and the 2 - 300 boolits through the die with so very little effort, I think I will just continue on as is.

Keep em coming!

Crusty Deary Ol'Coot

[MikeS]

I rountinely use Lee push thru sizers, and I rarely lube the boolits first. If I'm going to TL the boolit, then I will TL lube it, size, then lube again, but if it's a boolit I'm going to pan lube, I either do it dry, or if the boolit needs lots of sizing (a couple of my moulds drop boolits at .457-.458 & I'm sizing them to .452) I'll spray them with One Shot before running them thru the sizer. The thing with One Shot is you have to let the boolits dry completely (usually takes like 10 minutes or so) before sizing them. I've never removed the One Shot, and the boolits have pan lubed without any problems, the lube stuck in the grooves where it's supposed to.

[mdi]

Sorry, ---------- but asking again, why do you need to lube the boolit before the past through the Lee style push through die?

Is this something Lee recommends or??????

As I stated a few posts back, I am pushing a .462/465gr boolit through a Lee style push through die on my Rochchucker press with zero problem/effort.

What am I missing?

Keep em coming!

Crusty Deary Ol'Coot
Well, first it's in the instructions! I believe that if the guy that makes the equipment says to do it, he may have a darn good reason for doing so. Some like the lube first and last for easier push through and there will be no possibility for leading in the die.

[Crusty Deary Ol'Coot]

Thanks mdi,

Not likely to buy a Lee push through die, but have contacted the maker of my push through die and he indicates no need to pre-lube.

However, he also indicates there are some design and quality differences between his die an the Lee product.

I can't speak to that difference one way or the other, as I have never handled the Lee product.

I can say however, as I have already stated, that the big boolits pass through with basicly, zero effort. No binding, no scaring of the sized boolit, no gauling, in short nothing to indicate that the maker's information is anything but correct FOR HIS PRODUCT. No pre lubing needed.

Anyway, thanks for your come back on the subject!

Keep em coming!

Crusty Deary Ol'Coot

[geargnasher]

Good grief, Crusty.

First, if you size more than about two thousandths without lube in a Lee sizer the driving bands begin to smear. You might not notice it much, but there will be a little flashing on the trailing edges going down two-three thousandths dry. So SOME trace of lube is necessary in those instances, which are not yours in the once case you mentioned.

Second, lubing twice is part of the TL process as specified by Lee. We're mostly fully-developed humans here capable of using some rational thinking to determine if that process does or does not really need to be done by us in each particular situation, and often it does not. However, like The Most Interesting Man In The World would say, I don't always tumble lube, but when I do, I choose 45/45/10. Since I always size my TL boolits, and they usually need a touch of lube, I size between coats. Lubing them twice gives me two very faint coats so I'm sure to get close to 100% coverage with the absolute minimum amount applied each coat. This both speeds drying and gets the coverage I need, like putting on two thin coats of spray paint instead of one heavy one, total cure time is less with the two coats. A coat of 45/45/10 dries in 10 minutes in front of a fan.

I can't fathom how some of you are putting one substance (case lube, grease, soap, etc.) on before sizing, then washing it off afterward and waiting for the boolits to dry, then tumble-lubing one coat to finish and saying you're doing it to save time. If you want to save time, 45/45/10 applied VERY thin and warm will dry faster than water will!!! Give it a go.

Gear

[Crusty Deary Ol'Coot]

Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm??????????

Seems like I am getting some stones thrown my way, and all I did was try - 3 times before anyone was considerate enough to answer - to get the answer to a question for which I did not know the answer.

As stated, I have not used a Lee push through die, and as such have NOT had the oppertunity to read any of their directions or recommendations as to the use of their product.

In fact, I have never, before just a few weeks ago, used a push through die, and would probably not be doing so now except for the recommendation of Bruce from BRP molds.

However, after NOT receiving the expected information/replys on this forum, which from past experience seemed very funny, I again made contact with the manufacture of my push through die about the need for a pre lube. He said, there was no need.

Sorry if some of you thought I was being smart by asking my question repeatedly.

However, I was asking a reasonable question and hoping for a reasonable answer as to why people were using a pre-lube.

AS also stated, I have not used or seen/handled a Lee product, and can only take the word of the maker/designer of my die that there is a difference.

I have for years, used a RCBS or Lyman sizer lubricater, do not tumble lube and very likely never will, so all I know about the process is what I read.

So, good grief, geargnasher, give a guy a break. I thought the idea for the forums was to share and pass on information!

Keep em coming!

Crusty Deary Ol'Coot

[Moonie]

Gear, keep in mind some of us are NOT tumble lubing after using a push through die. I have up until recently used a push through with dish detergent, washed the boolits and pan lubed, the only reason I used the push through at all was to install GC's.

[Cowboy T]

Just started a major sizing run for the light .38 Spl load and the 0.358" push-through die. Trying it w/o any lube now and will let you all know how things go. The boolits range from 0.359" to 0.360".

I know, I know, why size 'em at those dimensions? Because my cameralady's gun has tight chambers and about 10% of the rounds simply won't fit. I guess the alternative is to use the Factory Crimp Die to post-size *her* rounds only (they all chamber fine in my Security-Six), but this is also a good opportunity to try a real test of Lee's stated need to lube before sizing.

Updates to come!

[prickett]

I know, I know, why size 'em at those dimensions?

I know exactly why. I sized a bunch of .357 magnum rounds to .359, then loaded a hundred rounds and headed for the range. Doh! Not a one would chamber. Live and learn.

[Jerry11826]

Hi Crusty,

Yes, Lee does recommend lubeing bullets before and after sizing. In fact, the instructions state if the bullets are not lubed prior to sizing the sizing die will "lead".

Maybe your "as cast" bullets are so close to the die size you are not getting any die leading.

My Lee 158 gr. TL .38 SWC bullets .358, Lyman #2, will begin to seriously lead the size die after about 25 - 50. Also, 1st pass lubeing makes them so much easier to run thru the size die.

I also relube after I size.

Hope this helps,

Jerry

[Crusty Deary Ol'Coot]

Thanks for the info Jerry!!!!!!!!!!!!

I just looked at the push through die from Buckshot, here on the forum, and no signs of leading after 200 - 300 cycles.

Makes me think I need to have a hands on with a Lee product to see just what differences there are, as indicated by Buckshot, between his and the Lee.

I can see that the sizing portion of the die is smooth as the proverbial babies bottom.

Doing a rough check - with calipers - on "as cast" dia, it appears the .462/465gr boolits are not casting overly large with the WW alloy.

My "Push through" die is marked, .460, while the Lyman style sizer/luber die (also from Buckshot) is marked .461. Both are as recommended by Bruce the mold maker.

So, at this point I think I will continue as per the info rec'd from Buckshot, that no pre-lubing is needed with his die.

However, with the info you have provided, I will sure keep watch on the process and know what steps to take if needed.

Presently, the boolits are coming through clean and bright with ZERO signs of gauling etc. AND as indicated earlier, with almost ZERO effort.

Bruce recommended the two die process for sizing & lubing because of the size of the boolit and the amount of effort sometimes needed to size/lube in one step with a Lyman or RCBS when working with boolits this large.

Anyway, THANKS!! for the info. :D

Keep em coming!

Crusty Deary Ol'Coot

[Moonie]

As an experiment I used my lee push through last week in .452 for sizing some Miha 200gr 45's, the effort required was MUCH more than for lubed boolits. I ended up adding some of my case sizing lube (spray olive oil) to help.

[prickett]

I'm going to have to give a thumbs down on the liquid dish soap. My press ended up with a coating of rust on it due to my running soaped boolits thru it.

Guess I'm back to 2 lubes.

[looseprojectile]

Someone needs to splain to me how a push through die can lead at the velocity that you can push a bare naked boolit through it. I have had boolits that were very hard, stick in a luber sizer die with lube though.
Crusty does it just like I do. I use mostly gas checked boolits. Pushing them through the die without lube does take a very little more effort and makes me feel like the check is seated square and fully seated and crimped.
I make most of my own sizing dies and never have had any, [have five I made and two from Ranch Dog] show any tendacy to lead or stick. My boolits are shiney on the sized bands and shoot fine.
After I size them I apply a very thin coat of LLA to hot boolits and while they are still hot I add the paste wax and roll em around till they are dry and load them.
Takes about five minutes to lube them. Maybe less than that. I do about a hundred or two at a time.
I am seventytwo and suspect that I am fully grown.
Looks to me as though some of you men are trying to make this way to complicated.

Life is good

[bhn22]

I may be off topic now :-), but you can spray your bullets with the mold release stuff that's worthless for it's advertised use

[rintinglen]

I have tried it both ways, no big difference that I could see. Now, grant that I am seldom sizing more than one or two thousandths, I still don't notice any significant change in the effort it takes to size, nor have I observed the leading that has been reported. I TL Twice, but only after I size.

[Dale53]

I have a Lee push through sizer for my Black Powder Cartridge Rifles. The bullets are rather soft (30/1 lead/tin) and they WILL lead with out lube before sizing, and it takes enough more effort that I believe running them through dry is not a good idea. Those long, soft bullets are easy to distort. When you are shooting from 500-1000 yards with black powder you need PERFECT bullets to score in the money. Distortion is neither needed nor wanted.

I load and shoot thousands of pistol and revolver bullets every year and use a Star luber/sizer. The dies are well made and well polished. The effort between dry and lubed is substantial. So, every once in a while I run a lubed bullet through twice (probably every ten or fifteen bullets - feel determines when). If a Star (with its MUCH less leverage you can feel the difference) really prefers a lubed bullet - then Lee's will too.

If you don't want to lube them before running them through, then don't but don't "down" someone for wanting to do the "correct" thing. It may work without pre-lubing, but it may NOT. The pre-lubing method is guaranteed to work.

Just a thought...

Dale53

[Crusty Deary Ol'Coot]

Dale53,

I'm probably the one at fault for getting the question going about pre-lubing and why.

Took me about 3 or so trys before someone explained to me that it is part of the instructions with the Lee push through dies.

So, put the blame if there needs to be any, at my door step.

However, I think from what I am reading, this needs to be decided on a case by case bases and probably can't or shouldn't be decided in a one size fits all manner.

I have been in contact with Buckshot, the maker of my one and only push through die and he stated there was no need to pre-lube.

This is probably correct in my situation, using boolits cast from WW and although weighting about 465gr they are not overly large in dia.

As I have stated, the boolits go through the push through die, mounted in my RockChucker press with almost zero effort and show no deformation in the process.

In fact, I am surprised the Gas Check seats with the tiny bit of effort required to do the sizing.

I don't think anyone was putting down anyone else because they "DO" prelube, but I'll say it took a suprising number of posts before someone answered what I thought was a reasonable question.

Seems like the norm is for the folk on this forum to be very forth coming with information. Took a bit of tooth pull'in this time.

So, sorry if you feel those who pre-lube are being bad mouthed, I don't see it and it is much more like those who don't, are on the short end of the stick.

Sooooooooo, probably my fault for ask'in the question, as to why pre-lubing was being done.

Keep em coming!

Crusty Deary Ol'Coot

[Tom W.]

And to paraphrase "Peggy"
"Naughty boy you not look for instructions..." :kidding:

http://www.leeprecision.com/cgi-data/instruct/BS2003.pdf

[Dale53]

Crustyolcoot;
Naw-w-w, no foul whatsoever. The only reason that I didn't chime in earlier, I didn't see the thread when you asked the question. The question was absolutely relevant.

Not to beat a dead horse, but my thinking is that two different metals rubbing together without lube is not good mechanical practice, in general. Your RCBS press has compound leverage and you would not feel the differences even it they were there. On the other hand, my Star doesn't have compound leverage, just a simple lever, and the difference (with and without lube) is readily apparent. Of course, with the Star, when I feel the difference (after ten or so bullets) I run a lubed bullet through and it lubes the die for several more).

My Lee push through die is only used for my BPCR's as I pan lube those (several hundred at a time with cake pans), so they are already pan lubed before sizing. It is not an issue with those, obviously. However, the Lee method is a superior method (to an RCBS, Lyman, and Saeco) as it is a push through die (like a Star without the lube function). I am sure Buckshot's finish quality is better than Lee's production methods, and it would have less "drag" than a "rough" die. As a matter of fact, I have been happy with Lee's execution of my particular dies (I have three, .32 caliber, .40 caliber, and .45 Caliber for my centerfire single shot rifles).

FWIW

Dale53

[wallenba]

I put a gob of vaseline on a folded paper towel. Then smear it down. Just a touch with the boolit. Stick the boolit up in the die and ram it through. It won't interfere with the lube sticking either. Some boolits I don't lube at all while sizing. With Lyman # 2, smaller calibers just go right through dry. That's assuming they are not too oversized to begin with and I'm not gas checking.

[wallenba]

OK, what am I missing here??????????????????

I recently rec'd a great new mold, .462-465gr from Bruce - BRP Products - and during the ordering process, he recommended I also order a Lee type push through boolit sizing die .460 from Buckshot and also a .461 sizer luber die for the lubing process.

The seating of the gas check and sizing to .460 is a no stress and very quick process with the Lee type push through die mounted in my RCBS Rockchucker press.

Sooooooooo, unless your pre - lube step before the trip through the push through die is just part of your lubing process, why are you needing to lube the boolit before that step????????????

Like I said, what am I missing here?

The 45cal., 465gr boolits are going through my Lee style push through die with almost zero effort, and coming out GREAT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Keep em coming!

Crusty Deary Ol'Coot

I'm thinking that not all boolits drop from the molds the same, and some might be a real tight fit without pre-lubing. I had a six cavity once that dropped some 357's at .363. They would get stuck in my Lee without lubing. I tossed that mold. Also as the caliber increases and so does surface area contact, problems might arise. Especially with softer alloys.

[Crusty Deary Ol'Coot]

You guys are likely all correct, but you must give me some credit for making a simple thread about pre-lubing into a pages long column.

Just think how short it could have been If ------------ :bigsmyl2:

I think I saw a link to Lee info back a couple of posts, so think I'll check er out!

Keep em coming! :cbpour:

Crusty Deary Ol'Coot

[milprileb]

I don't know what I don't know about all of this. My 2 cents:

a. Light coat of LLA (20% diluted LLA with mineral spirits) on 500 bullets takes me 5 minutes
b. Once dried: I can size 500 inside a half hour using Lee Push Thru system. I can size with bullets still wet with LLA but they are slippery so I let them dry.

Seems fastest method and easiest. I can feel little to no real resistance on my Rock Chucker when I use this approach and LLA. If I try other lubes (far slower and messy), its not as efficient and sizing is harder.

My method is what Lee recommend in their instructions so its not something radical.

So.... why mess with water, soap, oils, wax, Pledge and other more labor intensive and problematic solutions? Seems to me the instructions for Lee sizer die are pretty convincing on what to do here.

[Dale53]

I couldn't resist:

"When all else fails, read the directions.":groner:

Dale53

[milprileb]

The two great tales of woe

A. Read the instructions and they are in ancient unknown variants of English

B. Some assembly required and diagrams do not match product nor is there enough
or right hardware provided.