Is it rocket science to cast without a thermometer?

[Canuck Bob]

I'm dying to start casting but circumstances require spending almost no money on it. I'm gonna get a LEE soup can for my 32-20 and become a lapping lee-menting guy if required.

I got an old hot plate and some SS kitchen pots. 100 #s of #9 magnum shot for a super deal and some clean recycled roofing lead.

Standard advice is get a thermometer. If it is neccesary I'll add it to the list.

I got thinking there must be a few guys here who cast great bullets for years without all the great modern gear thats available. Can casting temperature be a learned skill without a thermometer?

[telebasher]

Spend a little more than what a thermometer would cost and invest in a Lee electric pot. Ive been casting for over 40 years and I've never had a thermometer. Ive developed a feel for each mould and can sense when more or less heat is needed. After you get a little experience you will understand what I mean. Just get started and have fun. When I started the was no internet with sites such as this for explaining what or how to do this. I bet most if not all the old hands here at this site learned the same way, we jumped in an learned the hard way. Its still fun and enjoy learning new ways of doing things , just be safe and keep good notes.

[MT Gianni]

A thermometer is a masters level tool not a bachelor of casting one. Some may even get a Doctorate without it. Sounds like you can get started with what you have if your hot plate will hit 750F. If not go with a Lee pot. If it will melt your lead, I would get a Lyman dipper rather than a Lee just because of volume but many have started with a Lee dipper.

[runfiverun]

you can learn to judge what you need by doing.
i rarely get out my thermometer any more and go by mold/casting feel, and color, quite often.
my most often used pot does have a regulated dial on it that i have set in the range i use with a thermometer.
but, the other two i use less frequently don't have nothing but numbers and i just go by feel on them usually.
i have seen other guy's use a strip of paper to judge thier temp.
a thermometer is a good tool to have though.

[sagamore-one]

I cast for over 25 years with out a thermometer . I have one now, but use it mainly for trouble shooting and fine tuning. You can do quite well with no thermometer... just pay attention and learn from your mistakes and problematic casting sessions. I also find very, very limited use for hardness meters.
The suggestion about the inexpensive Lee electric pot is well worth considering.

[beagle]

I cast for almost 50 years before I bought one. I guess you might be able to make a few without one. Now, I only use mine when I'm having problems or want to rest my furnace settings.

My first attempts were outside over a small wood fire and I made some pretty good 311291s that way. Then, I moved in on the electric stove. Management quickly ran me out of that and forced me to get a pot./beagle

[btroj]

I manage just fine without one. No intention of getting one.
I would suggest that you worry more about learning to cast good bullets and how to load and shoot them without trouble before worrying snout things like a thermometer.
People managed for many, many years without thermometers so I don't think they are required by any stretch.

Brad

[docone31]

What would I use a thermometer for!
I never used one. I use the six second freeze rule. Faster than six seconds, too cool. Longer than six seconds, take a break from the casting.
Fluxing does not work, if it is not hot.
Get a 20lb Lee Bottom pour pot. I have over 10yrs on mine and it is still working well.
No drips either. I spin the spout each time I shut down. I shut down with it full of lead.

[mooman76]

What's a thermometer? How the boolits drop will tell you turn it up. Start out hot. The boolits will get a little frosty and it should tak about 4 or 5 second for the lead puddle on the sprue. Once it starts taking longer, gradually turn the heat down until it's consistant. If it starts cooling too quick, turn it back up some.

[gray wolf]

Notice the guy's that don't use a thermometer have been casting for a long time.
They don't cast good bullets by accident,
they have paid there dues through years of experience.
I hesitate to use the word critical, but, melt temp. and mold temp are very important to producing good bullets. Ambient air temps can make a difference in how your pot reacts.
What worked yesterday may not work today, when adding metal to your pot the temp drops
Will you know when it's back up to temp ? As the metal is used in your pot the temp may go up, will you know how much ?
I cast for years without one, now I have one and I consider it a very worth while 30 $$
( can be had for less )
As a new caster why not take the guess work out of at least one of the things you will have to learn. I say get one, let it tell you what your pot is doing instead of guessing.
So I don't get flamed here Let me say again, there are many folks casting good bullets without a thermometer

and yes it can be done. But I think your learning curve will be faster with one.
Just my 2 cents

[stubshaft]

Been casting for over 35 years and also, never owned a thermometer. Gray wolf does make a point about the learning curve being shortened by the use of one. Most of the noob photos of boolits usually show the same thing, mold or alloy too cold. It takes a while to develop the "feel" for when the mold and alloy is at the right temperature and even how fast or slow to cast. Early shooters like Ned Roberts and Schoyen were anal about the temperature of their melt, to the point of not adding their sprues back into the pot. But in all of the books and accounts they wrote or were written about them, there was no mention of them using a thermometer.

[btroj]

I still don't think it is a necessary tool for even a new guy. Learn to watch the signs of problems and how to read them. A pot thermometer will tell you nothing about the mold temp.
I worry that a new guy will get so hung up on temp readings that they fail to watch other potential problem areas.
Casting is not rocket science at all. You get the lead molten, you heat the mold, and you pour lead into the mould.
Get one if you want but I certainly don't think it is required. I prefer to go old school and learn the signs of problems and how to fix them. Seems to me that knowing the temp tells you what you have but it does not tell you if that matters or what to do with the info.

New guy need to keep it simple.

Brad

[Char-Gar]

I have been casting for over 50 years and have never owned or used a thermometer. If the bullets are not well filled out, I turn up the heat until they are. I can't figure out why I would need such a gizmo. Who cares what the dial or scale on the thermometer says. The only thing is how the bullets drop from the mold.

[btroj]

Chargar said it all. Good bullets are good bullets.

[nes4ever69]

i dont own one. i just learned to turn the knob on my lee pot down so the coil comes on less. sure would be nice to take guess work out of things, but its not something i considered a must need.

when the spruce takes too long to cool, things are to hot. like others have said mold temp is critical.

to each their own, thats just my 2 cents.

[canyon-ghost]

Casting thermometer? What is that? I can tell the lead temp by how it casts when the mold come up to temperature. Ain't skeered.

Ron

[kelbro]

It's a one-time expense that will shorten the learning curve and help keep your consistency up. Yes, there are other factors that contribute to good bullets but a good thermometer reduces variables and makes life a lot easier.

[geargnasher]

I still don't think it is a necessary tool for even a new guy. Learn to watch the signs of problems and how to read them. A pot thermometer will tell you nothing about the mold temp.
I worry that a new guy will get so hung up on temp readings that they fail to watch other potential problem areas.
Casting is not rocket science at all. You get the lead molten, you heat the mold, and you pour lead into the mould.
Get one if you want but I certainly don't think it is required. I prefer to go old school and learn the signs of problems and how to fix them. Seems to me that knowing the temp tells you what you have but it does not tell you if that matters or what to do with the info.

New guy need to keep it simple.

Brad

+1 Brad. The thing is, a new guy needs to understand the relationship of alloy vs. mould temperature, and the visual cues to both. If the lead will pour out of the furnace or dipper, it's hot enough. The OP was talking about using a hotplate and SS pot, so that means ladle-casting. In a way, that is an easy way to start because it gives the opportunity to observe and control the temp of the alloy directly, without looking at the bottom-pour spout all the time. Being involved with the alloy by ladle casting out of a pot will give quite an education. What is important about this setup is NOT OVERHEATING THE ALLOY. The initial problems will be wrinkled boolits from a cold mould, or at the least poor fillout from a too-cool mould. The universal advice will be to get the alloy hotter, which will make it build dross like crazy. The actual issue will be that the new caster is only making about one boolit a minute and looking each one over rather than getting his butt in gear and ladling 3-4 a minute until the mould is hot enough to throw good boolits with an alloy that it barely 100 degrees over molten.

I use two different thermometers and a PID controller with calibrated thermocouple when I cast, it's just way too easy. Three years ago I got my first thermometer, but used it seldom, mainly for smelting. Now I won't be without one, although I can make decent boolits without one. The truth is there is no way to guess alloy temperature within 50 degrees when it's molten, and a 50 degree swing can make a huge difference in boolit weight, diameter, and quality.

Don't fool yourself that a Lee furnace will help. Alloy temp will swing 150 degrees between full and 1/4 full if you leave it on the same setting. If you don't believe that, it's because you never checked it with a thermometer.


I have been casting for over 50 years and have never owned or used a thermometer. If the bullets are not well filled out, I turn up the heat until they are. I can't figure out why I would need such a gizmo. Who cares what the dial or scale on the thermometer says. The only thing is how the bullets drop from the mold.......I would say that how they shoot is the only thing. You have 30 years experience on me, and what ever your method is, I'm sure it's so ingrained you could do it in your sleep with rock-solid consistency. A new guy won't have that consistency, so might not be able to make as good a boolit with the same equipment you use. I find that I shoot better groups at long range when I cast with a thermometer and PID and keep the temp in a 5 degree window.

Gear

[MtGun44]

I would suggest that many newbies are overthinking this whole thing.

This is not rocket surgery, guys. :bigsmyl2:

Get a Lyman cast bullet book. Read it all. Start casting. If you get wrinkly boolits after
the mold has time to warm up, up your temp a bit. Keep casting. If you get poor fill out,
try hotter or add a dab of tin. Keep casting. Don't smoke your mold. If you can't kill the
wrinkles with heat, you might have a bad batch of metal (very rare) or a dirty mold. Scrub
the mold with Comet and a toothbrush, dry and start again. You will get it right.

I've been doing it since 1975or 1976 and bought a thermometer some many years later.
It stays in the cabinet, haven't used it for decades except to try to figure out a batch of
mystery metal a few years back by freezing temp. You should spend your money on other
things instead of the thermometer.

Bill

[peerlesscowboy]

Like most of the other guys here, I've never used a thermometer either......been casting for 40 years plus. I've always used a Lyman electric bottom pour pot with a thermostatic temp control. There's more to it than just the correct melt temp, there's also mould temp which you control just as much by casting cadence as by melt temp.

John C. Saubak

[waksupi]

I went for many years with out a thermometer. I now use one, as I can start up the pot, and go check the temperature to see if things are hot enough to start casting, rather than making several false starts before the lead is up to temp.

[Canuck Bob]

Thanks everyone.

I am in a position to keep my casting hobby very cheap and simple. Right now a thermometer and Lee pot mean no casting. The problem with real ceap is the sad outcome of making bullets that are worthless. Therefore all my silly questions.

[geargnasher]

Bob, it depends a lot on what your goals are and what caliber you're casting for.

I kept myself well-supplied with ammunition in college with nothing more than a single-stage Ammomaster, Lee hand primer, a two-cavity .38 mould, a saucepan, the gas range in my travel trailer (built-in vent hood was a bonus), an old SS spoon with the handle wrapped in gauze tape, a bottle of Liquid Alox and a push-through sizer. I cast straight wheel weights that were free at the time, and a pound of Bullseye lasted just about forever. Primers were on my wish list every birthday and Christmas, and I shot brass until it split. The local range had a discount for anyone with a valid college ID, and I scrounged range brass there because I couldn't afford new. My case tumbler was a pad of four-ought steel wool, and I thought I was in high cotton when I finally got a Lee case trimmer, cutter and lockstud. My powder measure was a 9mm case cut down to measure three grains of BE (calibrated on the chemistry dept's scales), and had a copper wire handle soldered around the rim. I also learned that with mild loads and lead boolits, it's about impossible to wear out a J.P. Saur K38 copy.

I had lots of fun for years with very little equipment, you can too. I wasn't casting match-grade boolits, but I got to shoot a lot, had very little leading, and had a good time. That's the point, isn't it?

Gear

[Bret4207]

Even if you had a thermometer all it does it let you know what the pot temp is that meets your casting pace. There's no "one magic temp" that works for everyone. So don;t worry about it. Get you ladle and pot and get the alloy so that it's pourable. Start casting and when the mould is up to heat it'll drop decent boolits. Really, that's absolutely all there is to it, assuming your mould and alloy are clean and the alloy is something like wheel weights. if the dopped boolits are frosty, and you don't want that, slow your casting tempo a bit till you find the sweet spot for you.

[jlchucker]

I started casting in the mid-1970's. I never did buy a thermometer, although I thought about it after reading some threads on this website. I began to feel like I was leaving something out that I needed to do, even though my results were acceptable, at least to me. Now, after reading this thread, I no longer feel like a lonely old geezer without a thermometer. It's still not in my budget to run out and buy one--I'll just keep on casting like I've been doing.

[biker_trash_1340]

never owned a thermometer... Started casting with a (HILT lead pot 1) never had any idea of lead temp. Always had to add to the pot to keep from running out of lead.
Now I have a Lee 4-20 and found out that I cast to fast, so I turn the temp way down after warm up.
Don't spend to much time looking at your boolits after your mold warms up. Cast away and remelt the bad ones.

[Char-Gar]

I started casting in the late 50's a a teenager. We used a gasoline fired plumbers furnace, a cast iron pot, a Lyman dipper and a single cavity mold. I did this for 8 years before I bought my first electric melting pot.

As time passes, the folks that make casting stuff, come out with new products because if they didn't they would have nothing to sell. Their old stuff lasts forever. We are made to believe that we need this new stuff. After a time, we don't question the need, we just shell out the bucks.

I don't guess it makes any difference, but I hate to see it deter guys like you from jumping in with both feet for fear they don't have all of the needed stuff.

About a year or so ago, I had some new guy take me to task for being an old man, such in a time warp and could not fathom that there were better ways of doing things these days. I need to wake up and get with the 21st. Century and the new and better way of doing these things.

When I get these things hurled at me I remember the words of P.T. Barnum... "There is a sucker born every minutes" and " A man will never go broke underestimating the intelligence of the American people."

Old fool stuck in a time warp..over and out!

[mpmarty]

I bought a thermometer a year or so ago. It lives in my LEE 4-20 and the only thing it is good for is telling me not to try to pour before it reaches 700* as the spout won't pass lead until it reaches that temperature. I turn on the pot and hot plate, go get the molds I'm going to use and put them on the hot plate, go back into the shop and fart around with stuff for a while and then walk out and eyeball the thermometer to see if I can start casting yet. When the temp goes over 700 I turn the knob down to 4 or 5 from the max where it starts out.

[bowfishn]

Thermometer does work good for melting wheel weights, keep it under 600 and if you missed any zinc weights they just float to the top.
I know it's off topic but it is about a thermometer

[Three-Fifty-Seven]

People have been casting lead boolits long before there were rockets a round! Also long before thermometers too!:mrgreen:

I agree it could be a nice tool to fine tune . . . but . . . so far I do not have one!

[GUINEAPIG WITH AK47]

Bob, it depends a lot on what your goals are and what caliber you're casting for.

I kept myself well-supplied with ammunition in college with nothing more than a single-stage Ammomaster, Lee hand primer, a two-cavity .38 mould, a saucepan, the gas range in my travel trailer (built-in vent hood was a bonus), an old SS spoon with the handle wrapped in gauze tape, a bottle of Liquid Alox and a push-through sizer. I cast straight wheel weights that were free at the time, and a pound of Bullseye lasted just about forever. Primers were on my wish list every birthday and Christmas, and I shot brass until it split. The local range had a discount for anyone with a valid college ID, and I scrounged range brass there because I couldn't afford new. My case tumbler was a pad of four-ought steel wool, and I thought I was in high cotton when I finally got a Lee case trimmer, cutter and lockstud. My powder measure was a 9mm case cut down to measure three grains of BE (calibrated on the chemistry dept's scales), and had a copper wire handle soldered around the rim. I also learned that with mild loads and lead boolits, it's about impossible to wear out a J.P. Saur K38 copy.

I had lots of fun for years with very little equipment, you can too. I wasn't casting match-grade boolits, but I got to shoot a lot, had very little leading, and had a good time. That's the point, isn't it?

Gear

You, sir, are a HERO to shooters.

Everywhere.

[Von Gruff]

I have never had and dont intend to get a themometer. I have marks scratched on the stem of the gas knob to give me a guage for setting heat once melt is achieved. Experience has shown me what temp my various alloys and moulds need for the results I want. The thing about learning by experience (and experimenting) is that there is a whole lot of knowledge gained along the way, not only about what works but why it works. If someone starts out with all the "toys" then a lot of understanding stays unknown.
Without demeaning anyone, it seems that those starting out now in any endevour are less prepared to serve the "aprenticeship" with start-up but servicable toopls that brings understanding with knowlegde instead of just knowlege.

Von Gruff.

[rintinglen]

A boolit caster without a thermometer is like a fish without a bicycle.

Like a lot of folks herabouts, I started out on the cheap: a yard sale pacific press, a set of used RCBS 38/357 dies, a Lacmiller 2 cavity WC mold found in the junk bin at my favorite gun shop, a yard sale iron pot and a gas burner made from an old stove. I made a cake cutter out of a piece of 30-06 brass with a drill bit and a bit of ingenuity. The first couple of thousand boolits were shot in nothing but range scrounged brass. I learned to make some pretty good boolits in fairly short order.
my advice, Start casting, cast quickly 3-4 casts a minute, and keep going till you have a pile o boolits. Then ruthlessly inspect them and toss all wrinkled, dented, poorly filled out, void ridden boolits back in the pot. You may be disappointed at first, but you'll soon learn what to watch for to make good boolits. And scrounge all the lead you can. It will never get any cheaper.

[fisheadgib]

Being new to this forum and relatively new to casting seriously, I'm kinda suprised at how few of you use thermometers. I don't have a large amount of experience to fall back on even though I've had my Lee furnace and have been kinda piddling around with casting for around 19 years. I got a thermometer a few weeks ago and had quite the wakeup call. For starters, I didn't realize how much the pot cooled down when I tossed another ingot or two in. I also learned that most of my molds cast their best bullets at different temperatures. I also found that I have way fewer rejects during a casting session when I monitor my lead temp a little more closely. I realize it's not a necessity but my casting sessions are much more productive since I began using one.

[mold maker]

I've got an almost new one, that I've had for near 20 yr. It still rest in it's box for protection.
With a hot clean mold, and pourable melt, problems are usually something else. 4-5 seconds for the sprue to chill is more important than pot temp. You very this with casting pace, regardless of pot temp.
If your melt is freezing on/in your hot ladle, raise the temp. Otherwise cast as cool as you can
Your great grand father fed his family with cast bullets and probably couldn't spell thermometer.

[white eagle]

I'm dying to start casting but circumstances require spending almost no money on it. I'm gonna get a LEE soup can for my 32-20 and become a lapping lee-menting guy if required.

I got an old hot plate and some SS kitchen pots. 100 #s of #9 magnum shot for a super deal and some clean recycled roofing lead.

Standard advice is get a thermometer. If it is neccesary I'll add it to the list.

I got thinking there must be a few guys here who cast great bullets for years without all the great modern gear thats available. Can casting temperature be a learned skill without a thermometer?
ABSOLUTELY:mrgreen:

[songdog53]

I think most all of us weren't rolling in money when we began casting. I know first i cast was with gas plumbers blow torch and figured would blow up anytime. We have years behind us casting and with age and wisdom we have learned what to notice and when young ones come along they have to learn same way we did....besides casting is learning experince that never ends and i seemed to have missed out on the wisdom part and just got the old age part down pat.

[blaster]

If it is I must be a genius.

[canyon-ghost]

Thermometer does work good for melting wheel weights, keep it under 600 and if you missed any zinc weights they just float to the top.
I know it's off topic but it is about a thermometer


I've also noticed that low temp bullets are shinier, just nicer looking. Not saying that a thermometer wouldn't be a good idea, I just have never had one.

I consider myself extremely modern to have a Chrony and internet. lol


Ron

[HollowPoint]

When I first started casting I thought that the knob on top of my Lee melting pot was the thermometer.

Only after finding this website did it ever occur to me to use a thermometer. My bullets were coming out fine before I finally broke down and bought a thermometer.

I used it a couple of times; mainly to see if the calibration on my Lee Pot's Heat-Level-knob was correct or not. It wasn't but, it was close enough for my needs so that thermometer has just been collecting dust ever since.

HollowPoint

[Centaur 1]

Let me be the first Rocket Scientist to answer your question. No, it's not rocket science to cast without a thermometer. And since us rocket men don't get paid as much as you'd think, I still don't have one.

[303Guy]

And since us rocket men don't get paid as much as you'd think, I still don't have one. And you send rockets into space! (Or, somewhere).:mrgreen:

I finally broke down and decided I needed to know my casting temperature. That's when I remembered that my digital multi-meter has a temperature scale and you know what? A new multiscale with temperature scale costs NZ$20 and a thermocouple to match that's suitable for the purpose a mere NZ$15! And that plugs into my original multi-meter. And you know what I discovered? That red hot really is over 500°C. What am I going to do with this information? Well, I'm going to make sure my pot is always hot enough - like red hot ever changes. Still, one day I might want to cast at below red head. Then I'll need the thermometer.

P.S. Centaur 1, can you help me with an electrostatic chronograph for my test tube?

[Huntducks]

Been casting for 40+ years now the only THERMAMOOMTER I own is rectal:lol:

It's all about trial and error along with feel and experance it's not like you can't remelt them if they come out bad every mold new or old has it's own feel to it.

Just keep casting till you get it right, boolits don't have to be real peertee they just need to shoot straight.

[390ish]

Listen to the pot, it will tell you if it needs more heat.