PDA

View Full Version : Disappointed in 44 WC



ColColt
05-01-2011, 02:53 PM
I do like the looks of the 250 gr on the left from an old Lyman 429421 mold but was disappointed in the full WC because the seating die disfigured the nose. The seating stem is for a SWC and I thought it would work but it didn't. Once upon a time as I mentioned in another thread I loaded these and must have had a seating stem to fit. You can see the circle around the outer edge of the top of the bullet where it marred it and actually moved it out and down a bit. The smaller circle is from the top punch. I guess I'll have to forego making anymore of these unless I make them a heck of a lot harder than I did with this batch (BHN 11).

http://i180.photobucket.com/albums/x220/ColColt/Misc%20Stuff/_DEF3962.jpg
http://i180.photobucket.com/albums/x220/ColColt/Misc%20Stuff/_DEF3963.jpg

W.R.Buchanan
05-01-2011, 02:59 PM
I'd try a seating punch that is just a flat with no recess in it.

I know that the guy who sells the nice brass moulds recommends using a flat nosed punch that pushes only on the flat nose for sizing SWC's, so it would serve to reason that a flat nosed seating punch would not distort the nose while seating the bullet which takes less force than sizing does.

Randy

RobS
05-01-2011, 03:00 PM
You can probably make a seating stem and a simple flat nose punch will work fine for your lubricator. I can't remember right of hand what size but a short bolt that has the head filed smooth can be used as a nose punch for the lubricator. I've also made seating stems for my dies on several occasions.

ColColt
05-01-2011, 03:19 PM
The top punch is flat nose-a solid piece of steel-there's just a little raised circular burr(for lack of a better term) in the center causing that small circle but, the seating punch is just for the SWC and, of course, is a bit smaller in diameter. The problem with the die seat stem is it compresses the lead down increasing the diameter at that point a couple thousands. You can see how it's flared out at the very top.

bearcove
05-01-2011, 03:32 PM
Take out the seat stem fill with hot glue push down on a piece of wax paper sitting on something flat, like a table. you can pop it out when your done.

GRUMPA
05-01-2011, 03:37 PM
When I come across something like that and I'm dead-set an making it work I usually just seat the boolit and crimp separately. I don't know about the rest of you folk but when I load speed is not really the name of the game for me. And I've never had an issue having a deformed bullet even just seating it, just when the seating part and the crimp are done at the same time.

Safeshot
05-01-2011, 03:46 PM
You might try a "larger" expander plug also. Such as an expander plug from a RCBS "Cowboy Action Die Set" (for lead bullets) or a lyman expander plug with a "two diameter" expander punch and a flaring section. If you are using a "steel" sizing die, you might be able to "polish it out" or "lap it out" so that it will not size the case as much. Less force required to seat the bullet may help. A seating plug for a (full) Wadcutter bullet will help. Modifying the seating plug will work, but a (full) Wadcutter seating plug should not cost much. Good luck on your efforts.

ironhead7544
05-01-2011, 03:51 PM
If you are seating and crimping at the same time this may happen. I filed my wadcutter seater flat to get rid of the marks on the bullet. Might also want to try a larger expander plug.

PacMan
05-01-2011, 04:16 PM
I took some beagling tape and built my seating punch up to solve the problem. Can be removed if ever nesseary.
Dwight

ColColt
05-01-2011, 04:36 PM
RCBS doesn't have a seater plug like I need-at least anymore in this caliber but they tell me they can make one. Per their email...

"RCBS realizes that one plug can not be made to fit all the different profile of bullets available. For this reason, the Special Order shop will custom build a plug to fit the profile of the bullet you wish to use.

RCBS will require 3 sample bullets, the diameter of the seater stem in the die you are having the plug made for and the caliber. RCBS makes seater plugs in 1/4x 28 and 1/2x 20. Without this information, the Custom Shop can not start the plug, which will delay the order."


It'll cost $16.95 which to me ain't too bad. All will depend on how these shoot next time I go to the range whether I want that or not. I've used these before but not in quite a few years(about 32?) and remember zero about them as for grouping. I'll soon find out.

I am seating/crimping in the same stroke. In the interim, I may separate the two and see what happens. The dies were pretty well set the last time I used them so, I just continued with the way they were before, which was seat/.crimp at the same time to save a step. The only caliber I seat and crimp separately is the 45 ACP.

I'm not going to be using this size die once the carbide die gets here. Having to lube cases is not something I look forward to as I remember having to do that on rifle cases and it was a PITA to have to do that plus wiping off the cases afterwards. Enough time spent and somewhere you have to cut corners and the carbide is the ticket. All my pistol dies have that except for the 44 cal.

Ole
05-01-2011, 05:30 PM
Could you pour some solder in the seating die to flatten the profile?

How about a hot glue gun?

No idea if that would work, but that's the first thing that I thought of.

justingrosche
05-01-2011, 05:36 PM
I had the same problem with a WC (360344) for my .38 special, I just took an old seat plug and cut the recess off so it's just a flat plug. Never had any more problem with it. If you need a extra seater, I'm sure I must have an extra kicking around.
Justin

Whistler
05-01-2011, 05:43 PM
That's why I go with Redding dies only. They have on two occasions sent me flat seater plugs for the .38 WC and .44 WC free of charge (all the way to Sweden).

mooman76
05-01-2011, 06:01 PM
Paper won't care what they look like.

NHlever
05-01-2011, 06:17 PM
Surprisingly, I have found that a round nosed seating / sizing punch for a larger caliber than the one I'm working with works much better than expected. It somtimes will leave just a hair of a chamfer around the boolit nose, but I find that to be preferable to swaging the boolit out, or leaving grooves anywhere on the boolit. I suppose that might give me a boolit that is not quite as concentric, but I've had those problems when using a dead flat punch too, though tipping is more of a problem with the flat punch.

ColColt
05-01-2011, 07:19 PM
i don't know. I don't have a glue gun handy so maybe I'll try the easiest thing first and that's to separate the seat/crimp operation when working with these bullets. Then if that don't work, on to Wally World for a glue gun or as a last resort. buy one from RCBS. I can't image glue working with such pressure needed, however.

462
05-01-2011, 08:28 PM
Using either hot melt glue or epoxy, you can make a form fitting top punch and seating plug, or one that is flat -- your choice. After the glue or epoxy is ready to go, it only takes a few seconds to create exactly what you want.

The Perfessor machines hollowed-out Lyman/RCBS type top punches that allows a caster to make their own form fitting punches...$8.50 to your door.

94Doug
05-01-2011, 08:38 PM
I just loaded some of these with my RCBS die set and had no problems. Did your die set have two different seater plugs? I also did not crimp mine to the same point as I do with a Keith boolit.

Doug

ColColt
05-01-2011, 09:36 PM
The Perfessor machines hollowed-out Lyman/RCBS type top punches that allows a caster to make their own form fitting punches...$8.50 to your door.

How may I contact this Professor?


I just loaded some of these with my RCBS die set and had no problems. Did your die set have two different seater plugs? I also did not crimp mine to the same point as I do with a Keith boolit.


There was only one seater that I cold find. I have a sneaky suspicion I've misplaced the WC plug as I loaded these same rounds years ago and would have noticed the current problem then.

462
05-01-2011, 09:58 PM
His Cast Boolits alias is the perfessor, and you can send a PM. If you can find one of his recent posts, I think his signature line has a link.

He has available a drawing of the top punch and an order form. The punch incorporates an O-ring that eliminates the need to use a set screw and wrench to secure it...a rather novel and spiffy idea. The workmanship is excellent, as is the shipping time.

Other than being a satisfied customer, I have no connection with the perfessor.

turbo1889
05-01-2011, 09:59 PM
Some of the Lee dies have seater plugs that can be flipped over and the back side is simply flat with no recess to fit a nose curvature. It's hit and miss though because I've run into two kinds of seater plugs in the Lee dies. Ones that are just a simple length of metal rod with a hollowed out curvature in one end that can be flipped around the other way and ones that have a belt on the top of the plug that rests on a ledge inside the die that can't be flipped around end for end inside the die.

Might be worth checking out which of the two ways the seater plug is set up on a Lee 44-mag die set since those dies are cheap enough to buy a set just for the seating die if it is the kind that can be flipped end for end to use the flat back-side.

Come to think of it the Lee case flaring die could be used as a universal flat nose boolit seating die with the flair inserts flipped around flat face down.

DragoonDrake
05-02-2011, 12:44 PM
I had a similar issues with my 454 when I first started loading it. I was loading SWC's with a SWC seating stem, but I was still having nose deformation. I don't like my bullets getting messed up in loading so I just ground the SWC portion of the stem off and made a flat nose seating stem. This was with RCBS dies and the BRP 454-310-SWC. I have had no issues with bullets not seating straight so I have not worried about it.
Adam

W.R.Buchanan
05-02-2011, 12:56 PM
I'd try any of the above methods before I sent off for another seating punch. The glue or epoxy or even solder will tell you if that solution is going to fix your problem, and i personally think it will. Plus any one of them will only take a few minutes to execute. Then you can be up and running, instead of waiting for 2-3 weeks for a part to come.

Then when you finally get your new punch there will be no Mystery of whether or not it will work you'll know it will.

Randy

Doby45
05-02-2011, 02:11 PM
I used my Horandy 45ACP flat seating die to load these and then I crimped in a seperate stage.

http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b327/Doby45/65344919.jpg

ChuckS1
05-03-2011, 07:44 PM
I have a Bond mold for my .38 Special that looks like that .44 wadcutter and had the same problem. I took an extra 429 top punch and filled it with molten lead, filed it off and then sanded smooth. Works great for me.