BAH HUMBUG!!2 alloy slugs

[jhalcott]

I tried again today to make some soft nose cast bullets. I used a 120 gr 7mm bullet cast of pure lead for the noses. I dropped them into a 200 gr 309 and a 250gr 358 mold. Floated the mold on the lead pot till the "nose" melted then added the lino. I floated the mold on the lead again for a couple minutes. Then let it cool for a couple more.When the Sprue got solid I sat the mold on a wet rag for a minute to freeze the melt. I thought I was in hog heaven as the bullets LOOKED great. I brought them in the house a few minutes ago as I left them out side to cool. I tested them for BHN with a Lee tester. I got similar (14-15bhn) on both ends of 4 bullets,2-.30 and 2 .358...
Back to the micro ladles I guess!

[No_1]

I think I would drop the 7mm in, "float the mould" to melt it, pull it out of the melt and let it cool for a few seconds to get that nose solid then pour the lino behind it on top of the solid nose. I would not re-float the mould once the lino was poured. Just cut the sprue when it looks ready, drop the bullet out and see what happens.

Robert


I tried again today to make some soft nose cast bullets. I used a 120 gr 7mm bullet cast of pure lead for the noses. I dropped them into a 200 gr 309 and a 250gr 358 mold. Floated the mold on the lead pot till the "nose" melted then added the lino. I floated the mold on the lead again for a couple minutes. Then let it cool for a couple more.When the Sprue got solid I sat the mold on a wet rag for a minute to freeze the melt. I thought I was in hog heaven as the bullets LOOKED great. I brought them in the house a few minutes ago as I left them out side to cool. I tested them for BHN with a Lee tester. I got similar (14-15bhn) on both ends of 4 bullets,2-.30 and 2 .358...
Back to the micro ladles I guess!

[44man]

Same results I had. I tried every way mentioned and as soon as a boolit looks seamless, the alloys are blended. Like dropping a new ingot in the pot, it doesn't stay in its little place it melted in until you stir the pot.
I have shot two alloy boolits from my revolvers and even though they had bad seams they still shot good enough for hunting.

[jhalcott]

Yes 44, AND you only need a hand full for a couple seasons .

[BruceB]

Gents;

Go back and try to follow the instructions as written.

Get the pure lead donor bullet melted in the mould, or the dipper-measured molten pure lead, and then LET IT HARDEN. Do NOT pour the shank alloy on top of the liquid nose material.

After the nose has set up hard, THEN add the harder shank material. Repeat: do NOT pour the shank alloy into the mould when the nose is still liquid. Leave a generous sprue puddle of the shank alloy on the sprue plate.

After the sprue has frozen, THEN float the mould on the melt until the sprue has re-melted. It may take a minute or even two for the alloys to melt completely inside the mould. Give it another minute after the sprue melts before removing from the heat.

I have some cast-softpoint 457125s here which were made several weeks ago by this method, and they CLEARLY show a very great color difference between the nose and the shank, and there certainly IS a substantial difference in hardness between nose and shank. The color variation is much more obvious as time passes, probably due to differing oxidation rates of the two alloys, but the pure-lead noses are dark gray while the shanks are much lighter-colored.

I have to learn how to post photos.

Good grief, if "I" can do this successfully, anyone can!

[44man]

Bruce, if I remember your other posts, the first one said to pour the nose and put the mold in the pot until it melted again and then pour the shank. You said you were working on the second method of re-melting the whole boolit.
My memory is old but I think that is the way it went. Many still remember the first post. I don't think you ever came back with the results of the other method.
If you did and and I missed it===sorry!

[BruceB]

44 man;

Yes indeedy, I did modify the procedure (again...it's a developmental process, after all, right?).

Search for "softnose", which will bring up the "Streamlining Production of Softnose Bullets" or something close to that, and go to post #48 on the fourth page. That's where I reported the change in procedure and the results.

My post is followed by a couple others from gents who had some success with it.

It's slow, but the resulting boolits sure look good....no seam at the juncture between alloys, and no mixing beyond the immediate area of the contact between pure-lead and shank metal.

Hope this helps.

[jhalcott]

DAGNABIT, Bruce! I see another afternoon in front of the casting pot! It does beat the wifes soaps on the TV though!

[9.3X62AL]

I got busy bird- and deer-hunting about the time Bruce posted that Version 2.0 bit, and I'm wanting to try that method out in several calibers--both rifle and handgun.

[leftiye]

Perhaps a way to control mold/bullet nose temperatures accurately might help?

I would consider the first part cast and put back in the mold as being part of the mold for the second pour. It would want to be just hot enough to pour the second half to fill completely, and "solder " to the first part. Not liquid, but hot enough that the boundary would melt a little.

One way to control the temps would be with an adjustable mold heater. This can be made from one of those little electric Lee casting pots. You tear it apart and form the heating element into a flat coil to set the mold on, then reassemble it without the pot so it's adjustable. Or you might could use one of those electric hot plates.

[versifier]

Bruce's method works. I fill a Lee precision melter with pure lead, heat up the mould in it and use a dipper made from a cut off .300WSM case to measure the pure lead into the mould. I have only tried it with .30 cal 170 & 180 gr moulds. (I would use a smaller boolit or ball for the pure lead, but I don't have any moulds smaller than 7mm, so I dip, and the shape and size of the dipper makes a difference for me. I have posted pictures.) When it sets up, I slowly pour in the alloy base from my bottom pour pot, leaving a generous sprue. Then, just like he says to, I float it on the pure melt until the sprue just turns to liquid. Then I set it down, slowly, carefully, and let it harden - no trying to hurry it, I just sit it on the bench and leave it until hard. I usually have another mould that I'm running with the alloy, and I can usually fill it several times while the soft noser is cooling. I have posted pictures of the result in 180gr, too. My personal theory is that the different densities of the pure lead and alloy keep them separated, but that the mould has to be moved slowly and carefully set down so as not to agitate them and intermix them. Despite their different densities, they seem to want to mix, but careful handling seems to me to be what prevents it happening. There may well be other factors of which I remain blissfully unaware, but I have gotten usable softnose boolits with this procedure. Production is painfully slow, but I don't go through a lot of hunting boolits. They hit to the same POI as the alloy boolits from the same mould, even though they are a few (4-5) grains heavier. I haven't tested them in waterfilled milk jugs for expansion as I had planned to do this fall, we had a monsoon season instead, and I have not killed anything with them yet, though not for lack of effort. [smilie=1: But, the bottom line is, the method works, and a few minor variations between my technique and Bruce's don't affect the positive results.

[Ross]

Just a bit of serendipity:
On the USPTO site I surfed onto a patent for a displacement metering ladle for making two-alloy bullets.

Metering Casting Ladle: Gary L. Trammel: Patent Number 4,842,171: Jun. 27 1989

I'm sorry that I am not able to post a link, but the number will get you right to the patent.
I would not be surprised if this is old hat.
Cheers from Darkest California,
Ross

[OLPDon]

Ross:
Googled found link:
http://patft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?Sect1=PTO1&Sect2=HITOFF&d=PALL&p=1&u=%2Fnetahtml%2FPTO%2Fsrchnum.htm&r=1&f=G&l=50&s1=4,842,171.PN.&OS=PN/4,842,171&RS=PN/4,842,171

2nd Link: http://patimg2.uspto.gov/.piw?Docid=04842171&homeurl=http%3A%2F%2Fpatft.uspto.gov%2Fnetacgi%2Fn ph-Parser%3FSect1%3DPTO1%2526Sect2%3DHITOFF%2526d%3DP ALL%2526p%3D1%2526u%3D%25252Fnetahtml%25252FPTO%25 252Fsrchnum.htm%2526r%3D1%2526f%3DG%2526l%3D50%252 6s1%3D4,842,171.PN.%2526OS%3DPN%2F4,842,171%2526RS %3DPN%2F4,842,171&PageNum=&Rtype=&SectionNum=&idkey=NONE&Input=View+first+page

Don

[MT Gianni]

OLPDON, I read an article by Ross Seyfred in 89 in Guns N Ammo and when I started casting a few years later I tried in vain to get a hold of Trammco. They reloacated to Colorado and by the time I got in touch with them the metering ladle was long gone. I was told my only hope would be a gun show. The device was like a metering syringe that you lifted a measured amount of pure lead up with and dropped it into your mold followed with your alloy. Gianni.