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View Full Version : Let's talk melting pots gentlemen...



Idaho Sharpshooter
04-25-2011, 06:25 PM
Are we at a point to talk a GB on a good melting pot?

I would like one that would hold 50-60lbs of melt, with an accurate thermostat housing. A very accurate thermostat.

Is there enough interest to talk to Waage or somebody?

Rich

Matt3357
04-25-2011, 07:35 PM
hmmm sounds just like the one I made myself except mine has a solenoid to actuate a bottom pour valve. Need to make some modifications to it now that I have used it. But it works like a charm. Holds about 55lbs of lead and I made a timer circuit for it that is adjustable so one push of the button delivers any where from half a second to 10 seconds of lead. Oh and it is controlled by a PID temperature controller so it is very accurate temperature wise. I think I have more fun making tools than using them.

Matt

princeout
04-25-2011, 09:05 PM
Matt,
I did a quick search to see if you had a thread on your pot but didn't see one. I really enjoy reading the "how I did it" posts and would love to see some info on yours. I hope to get started tinkering with a pot after I get my new shop finished up.
Thanks
Tim

Matt3357
04-25-2011, 09:34 PM
Yeah i never did do a thread on it. As I said, I plan on making some changes to it. When I get to it, I'll do a piece on it. Sorry to hijack Idaho, I'll bow out quickly. BTW who would you get to make a pot for a Group Buy?

Matt

Idaho Sharpshooter
04-25-2011, 10:15 PM
Matt,

as of right now; that would be YOU!

How big a diameter, and how deep is yours?

Price the materials, pay yourself a decent wage and think about a run of four.

I would buy the first one, if the price is at all reasonable. At All!

There would be easily three more guys who want to be able to pour an hour or two without all the hassle of owning three twenty-pounders and ladling lead, then loading ingots.

Make some money; Make My Day!

Rich

tonyjones
04-25-2011, 11:49 PM
Rich,

The Waage is a 20# pot IIRC and I recently read here that they're going for about $240. The 40# Magma bottom pour with PID controller is $775.

Matt,

I'd love to hear what you come up with; if you're interested.

Regards,

Tony

SciFiJim
04-26-2011, 12:43 AM
I will say that I am interested as well. Don't know if I would be able raise the money for it, but I would like to see how it turns out.

taminsong
04-26-2011, 04:24 AM
Yeah, I'm curious too!

Matt3357
04-26-2011, 01:30 PM
Wow that is a lot of interest. with a PID controller, insulated bottom pour pot, solenoid actuated bottom pour I would have to charge around $500 to make any money. Shipping would be the killer. Would probably cost over $60 to ship it. The one I have is the very first model I have built and has a few tweaks needed to be better. I know it would be a couple months before I could get started producing, but if there is enough interest, I might be able to put something together.

Matt

princeout
04-26-2011, 09:43 PM
Matt,
Post up some pictures and description. Depending on the setup, your price might not be so bad.
Tim

Matt3357
04-26-2011, 09:57 PM
I am extremely busy right now but when I get a chance, I will model my new design in Inventor and post some pictures. After noticing that the magma version with PID controller is $775 and is cheap stamped steal with a manual lever system, I think my price is very reasonable. Give me a bit and I'll see what I can do.

Matt

Matt3357
04-26-2011, 09:58 PM
In the mean time, let's discuss what you guys look for in a bottom pour pot. Give me some idea of what you are looking for in a pot so I have a bit of direction to suit everyone.

Matt

tonyjones
04-26-2011, 10:19 PM
Matt,

I mostly ladle cast and only sometimes use the bottom pour spout to cast. I mostly use the bottom pour feature to drain the pot when I'm done. I do this as opposed to having several pots, one dedicated to each alloy. Right now I mostly cast 50/50% WW/PB. Who knows what I'll be using a couple of years down the road.

FWIW the $775 price for the Magma does not include S&H.

Regards,

Tony

CATS
04-27-2011, 12:09 AM
Matt,
I would love to see how you made your prototype. I think that a home made pot that works is really cool!!! Thanks!
CATS

Matt3357
04-27-2011, 12:35 AM
I will say that my first prototype, while it works, has a few things I want to change. I'll try to get some pictures up this weekend. for now I will leave you with a picture of my senior design project that I just finished.

Matt

Let me know what you think it is.

http://i570.photobucket.com/albums/ss143/Matt3357/ShotDripper.jpg

nanuk
04-27-2011, 02:07 AM
lead shot maker?

Matt3357
04-27-2011, 08:11 AM
You got it. It runs the coolant through a radiator with a fan pulling air across it keeping it cool. The pump pumps the coolant into the upper tank overflowing it giving a nice level surface. Shot flows out of the spout on the bottom into the basket. When the basket is full, it is pulled and placed on the draining rack. The draining coolant drains into the lower holding tank where it is reused. The holding tank holds the coolant while it is not being used and is pumped back into the main tank when setting up. The upper lead pot automatically keeps the lower dripping pot at a constant level. From cold start up to making shot is 12.5 minutes. With an average production rate of about 50 lbs per hour. Believe it or not, it was making good shot on the first power up. Just thought I'd give you an idea of my abilities.

Matt

tonyjones
04-27-2011, 10:54 AM
I'm IMPRESSED! What shot sizes can you make?
Tony

GLL
04-27-2011, 11:27 AM
The Waage is a 20# pot IIRC and I recently read here that they're going for about $240. The 40# Magma bottom pour with PID controller is $775
Tony

I own four of the WAAGE K4757 20# pots . The current price directly from WAAGE is $162. The company also makes VERY large capacity pots as well.

Jerry

http://www.fototime.com/DF1271887CEBA67/standard.jpg

GLL
04-27-2011, 11:30 AM
Matt:

VERY impressive indeed ! :)

Jerry

Matt3357
04-27-2011, 11:38 AM
It currently has number 8 drippers in it but they can be changed out for other sizes anywhere from #6 to #12 I think. I get my drippers from the guy who makes the Stewart The better shot maker.

GLL,

What is the price of the waage large capacity pots and what features do they have? That might be a better value if one wanted to only ladle pour.

Thanks,
Matt

tonyjones
04-27-2011, 12:24 PM
Matt,

Please tell us more about the solenoid actuation feature of your pot.

Thanks,

Tony

Matt3357
04-27-2011, 12:42 PM
I used the same valve design on my casting pot as I did on the upper pot on the shot maker. It is really simple yet effective. The solenoid pulls down on a lever that pulls up on the valve stem letting lead flow out. It is a dead man valve, meaning that the valve is held close with a spring so that if power gets cut, the spring holds it closed. I have come up with a super simple way to make a dripless valve and stem set up that so far has held back 60 lbs of lead with no drips whatsoever. The solenoid can either be setup to operate by the push of a button or by a foot pedal. The one i have is operated by a push button. The button either controls the solenoid directly or i have it so I can switch it to an adjustable timer circuit that will pour anywhere from .5 sec to 10 seconds of lead. I guess I like features. I'm telling you I like designing tools more than using them when I am done. I guess that's why I went into mechanical engineering.

Matt

Idaho Sharpshooter
04-27-2011, 01:49 PM
I have been PM'ing with Matt.

Here are my thoughts:

1. six inch diameter by eight inches deep. Matt says a bit over 90lbs capacity.
I like that size. You can alloy a decent sized batch of alloy that way.

2. I smelt in an 8qt Dutch oven/Turkey Cooker set up. I can run that pot just hot enough to
keep the melt liquid.

3. Or, run Matt's pot half empty, then refill and take a break/cull the boolets.

4. with his automatic shutoff solenoid and adjustable pour time you can find a bottom pour setting to fill my 960gr Ten Bore mould (7 per pound) or the 4-5 cavity NOE 247gr 308 boolet tandem casting with two moulds.

Make it big enough to run a day.

Rich

Matt3357
04-27-2011, 02:02 PM
Keep thoughts coming. Pot size is the easiest thing to change on my design. Just keep the diameter 6 inches. The depth is a non issue. Just keep in mind that 1 inch of lead in a 6 inch diameter pot is about 11.5 lbs.

Matt

tonyjones
04-27-2011, 03:38 PM
Matt,

For rifle bullets I'll be casting 34 grain .22's to 400 grain .416's and for my hand guns 100 grain
.32's to .45 cal. whatever. Will your solenoid actuator handle from 34 to 960 grains?

Even though I'm primarily a ladle caster there are some design features of your pot that intrigue me. I've also been thinking of bottom pouring some hand gun bullets with higher production in mind.

Regards,

Tony

GLL
04-27-2011, 05:20 PM
Matt:

The "standard" WAAGE pots seem to go up to 500 pound capacity. There are several other different models available but you must contact them for information. If you backtrack from the page I send you can find a variety of other solder pot designs that operate up to 800 degrees. Some are 6600 watt and operate only on 440 volt 3-phase though.

They are very nice people to deal with ! :)

Jerry

http://waage.thomasnet.com/viewitems/solder-pots-and-tanks/solder-pot?

Matt3357
04-27-2011, 08:22 PM
GLL

I looked at their stuff and boy they sure are proud of them. I know I can beat them on features and price easy.

Tony,

If you have the actuator set up so it is operated by a momentary contact button, you can have it pour as much or as little as you want. It is just like a manual bottom pour in that aspect. I have not checked to see how much will pour out in 10 seconds and would have to do some testing before I would make any claims, but I don't see a problem as the amount of time is easily changed by changing a few capacitors in the circuit.

Matt

GLL
04-27-2011, 09:00 PM
Matt:

I REALLY look forward to hearing what you might eventually have available in a 40-60 pound bottom pour AND ladle pot !

Jerry

376Steyr
04-27-2011, 09:04 PM
Matt:
Does your pot run on 110V or 220V?

Matt3357
04-27-2011, 09:23 PM
376Steyr,

It could easily be setup to run on whichever voltage you wanted, but mine runs on 120 and that's what I would be producing mainly because it is the most common for people.

GLL,

As far as a ladle pot, you are just talking about a heated pot, no bottom spout? If that is the case, you got rid of all of the extras and the price could be a bit less. I'll be sure to draft one of those up as well.

Matt

johnny356ER
04-27-2011, 10:49 PM
Matt,

I might be interested in a bottom pour.... without too many bells and whistles....
maybe something like Rich (Idaho Sharpshooter) said about the accurate temp setting/gauge
....but maybe with a manually operated spout...that hopefully doesn't drip!!

johnny

bwgdog
04-28-2011, 02:00 AM
Matt-Same as johnny said and Rich also-great minds + all !!!! Keep us updated! tia bwgdog

Idaho Sharpshooter
04-29-2011, 02:36 AM
I would also suggest you look at offering a decent hot plate with a thermostat that would go to about 375-400-degrees.

As an aside; I do NOT consider a 20lb solder pot for $426 much of a bargain. Or the 120lb for $870.

I am pitching Matt on the 90lb for about $599.95. We need to help this young man pay off those student loans...!

Rich

Matt3357
04-29-2011, 08:56 AM
I just accepted a job yesterday for a mechanical engineering position here in St. Louis. I start June 1st. Once things settle down after graduation next saturday, I'll start modeling it up and pitching official ideas. In the mean time, keep the ideas rolling and get in mind what you might want. Since each one of these will be fabbed up individually, most aspects are very easy to change with minimal effort. Not sure about a hot plate. Seems kinda like people have beat me to it unless you want different features than are already out there.

Matt

Idaho Sharpshooter
04-29-2011, 10:30 AM
Congratulations on finding a decent job in the StL area.

My thought was purely on quality, and a thermostat. Wide enough to set two 5-cavity NOE moulds on, side by side.

With this site, NOE moulds, and now Matt with a high quality pot coming, this would be a great time to be about 30 with a rack full of surplus military rifles and your own 200yd range...

Rich

mpbarry1
04-29-2011, 11:30 AM
What would you guys think about removeable/interchangeable pots? One for smelting and one for casting?

tonyjones
04-29-2011, 04:10 PM
Matt,

Here are my ideas for what I think I need/want. Two pots will be required.

1) Casting Pot, 6" diameter x 8" height, 90# capacity (I don't have to put 90# in it). A momentary contact button with the option to manually operate the lever without damaging the electronics is all the control of the valve I would ever need. I doubt that I would ever program the thing to pour 1/2 second, 10 seconds, or anywhere in between. PID temperature control accurate to within plus or minus 5 degrees F.

2) Melting Pot, ?" diameter x ?" height, 90# to 120# dry capacity to melt WW, sheet lead, indoor range lead, etc. The same control capability as above except temperature to within plus or minus 25degrees F. Higher wattage/220V may be desirable in this application.

If you can control the temperature closer than I have specified without driving up the price then great. However, 5 and 25 degrees is good enough for what we're talking about.

Also, it seems desirable to me to be able to easily disassemble, clean, and reassemble the valve assembly. Does your design utilize an orifice plate?

Regards,

Tony

Matt3357
04-29-2011, 04:44 PM
Tony,

The way I have my PID setup, it is in a box separate from the pot. The box has a switched outlet on it where the pot is plugged in. The thermocouple is of the water tight variety and is threaded in the bottom of the pot into a half coupler. On the other end is a special plug that plugs into a socket on the control box. I use my box to control the temperature of my propane smelter and of my lube heater. Just have to have a thermocouple on each unit. Plug in the heater and thermocouple, adjust the set value and you are good to go. For an electronic smelting pot, I would recommend a higher wattage heater to speed up the process but 1200w would certainly do it. 120 volts on an 8 inch pot would give 1500w. an 8inch pot 7 inches deep will hold about 140lbs of lead. my smelting pot on my propane set up is 10 inches by 12 inches and will hold 386 lbs of lead. I basically smelt just a couple batches every once in a while to hold me over. Just did about 100lbs of ingots last weekend in a little over an hour.

Since it is just a melting pot, I would imagine that a thermostat could be implemented and could be upgraded to 240v if more wattage is desired. With no bottom pour it would be easier and much less complicated.

I see no issues what so ever with your requests for a casting pot. Give me a couple weeks and I'll draw up some prototypes for you guys to critique.

Matt

Matt3357
04-29-2011, 04:48 PM
mpbarry,

The way i am going to have these set up, it would take quite a few modifications to set up an interchangeable pot setup. It could be done, but for right now I am going to stick with two separate pots and maybe a hot plate.

Matt

Vinne
04-29-2011, 11:59 PM
Matt, I LIKE your shotmaker. Lots of production in a small footprint!! What do you use for coolent?? Where do you get it? Does it make the best shot than other coolent??

VINNE

mpbarry1
04-30-2011, 12:07 AM
Thats ok matt. Just thinking... kind of like my highway designs. Everybody adds to the project until you dont even recognize it when they are done. When someone says, "wait, what problem were we trying to solve again?" Fortunately, we usually get back to the basics.

Idaho Sharpshooter
04-30-2011, 12:41 AM
Just a 6" diameter by 8" deep pot with a +/- 5-degree thermometer and the off/on switch for the bottom pour.

My brother lives back there. I can have him pick it up about June 5th and bring it to The Quigley.

Tell me more about this temp control for a big propane heated pot, like a turkey cooker...?


Rich

Matt3357
04-30-2011, 02:11 AM
Well my dad used to have his own HVAC business and had a left over furnace gas valve and I wanted to make a propane operated smelting pot. So using the PID controller and a thermocouple, I plugged in the gas valve to the PID control box and it controls a 50,000 BTU water heater burner. It kicks on the burner when it needs temp and off when it doesn't. I am working on a model.

Thanks,
Matt

Matt3357
04-30-2011, 02:15 AM
Vinne,

I used a water based machining fluid. It was TRIM E206 from MSC Direct. It was mixed about 8% with water and produced the best shot between water and Sierra non-toxic antifreeze. We produced 60 lbs with less than 50 bad pieces of shot in the whole batch. It is not very viscous but slows down the cooling enough that it doesn't explode.

Matt

Matt3357
04-30-2011, 05:42 PM
Ok so I got a bit of time today to start modeling up the 90lb pot. It has a 9 inch outer diameter. With 1.5 inches of ceramic insulation and a 1200W band heater, there should be no problem keeping this thing hot. Let me know what you think. Going to work on a mold guide for it now.

Matt

http://i570.photobucket.com/albums/ss143/Matt3357/90lbbottompourpot.jpg

Jeff Houck
04-30-2011, 05:55 PM
I'd be interested in a 40+ pound pot. The RCBS 20 pounder does well, but a bit small. After 30 years mine is finally wearing out. I'd like the large top to the back for stacking ingots to be preheated. I'd like a manual, adjustable pour, with a removable orifice for cleaning. 120 volts. + or minus 10 degrees thermostat would be fine. Also, a mold support bar like the RCBS pot.

Thanks, Jeff Houck

Matt3357
04-30-2011, 07:18 PM
Here's another rendering with a couple more attachments. Feedback is appreciated.

Thanks,
Matt

http://i570.photobucket.com/albums/ss143/Matt3357/90lbbottompourwithmanualpullandmoldguide.jpg

tonyjones
04-30-2011, 07:19 PM
Matt,

When you say 1,200 band heater do you mean 1,200 watt?

Thanks,

Tony

Matt3357
04-30-2011, 07:24 PM
Yeah, sorry forgot my units.

Matt

bwgdog
04-30-2011, 08:45 PM
Coming together nicely Matt! I really like watching things like this develop. Thank You bwgdog

mpbarry1
04-30-2011, 11:59 PM
still too early to send a deposit? :)

Matt3357
05-01-2011, 12:05 PM
Please feel free to critique. There are still quite a few little tweaks that need to be done to make it more user friendly as far as servicing and usability goes. Also need to change a couple of things to make it easier to manufacture.

Matt

dromia
05-01-2011, 02:54 PM
This is looking good and I'm interested even if shipping to the UK is a killer.

A 40 lb pot would suit me fine but if a 90lber is what going then I don't have to fill it up. 220 volts would be good for me but I have a good step down if its only available in 120.

The only thing I would like considered is the sight line to the spout, I like to cast with my moulds on the guide at waist level and i want to be able to see the spout in relation to the holes as I push the mould through.

With the Lee 20 lber I nearly had to mount the pot to chest level to get the sightline, so it went the journey for that and a few other reasons.

Otherwise its looking good to me. :D

Matt3357
05-01-2011, 03:11 PM
I was actually just talking about that very thing dromia, sightline that is. I was thinking about taking a wedge off the front for that very reason. It would create a hot spot right there, but I think it would be worth it. I'll do some more tweaks this evening hopefully.

Matt

Matt3357
05-01-2011, 03:12 PM
Oh and it can be made in any weight pot with a 6 inch diameter. Just change the depth. Keep in mind that it is 11.5lbs per inch of a 6inch pot.

Matt

dromia
05-01-2011, 03:18 PM
Oh and it can be made in any weight pot with a 6 inch diameter. Just change the depth. Keep in mind that it is 11.5lbs per inch of a 6inch pot.

Matt

Thats champion Matt, for me I suppose it will be a function of capacity and packaging for posting.

Capacity is good but not if it makes the shipping too problematic.

Time enough to worry about that though.

Matt3357
05-01-2011, 05:15 PM
Once I get one built up, I'll get shipping costs. Hopefully it won't be too bad.

Matt

Matt3357
05-01-2011, 07:36 PM
Here is Mark I design. Tear it apart.

http://i570.photobucket.com/albums/ss143/Matt3357/90lbpotassembly-1.jpg

Matt

Matt3357
05-01-2011, 07:47 PM
here is a more realistic rendering of it.

http://i570.photobucket.com/albums/ss143/Matt3357/90lbbottompourmanpullandwedgeremoved.jpg

Matt

Idaho Sharpshooter
05-01-2011, 08:12 PM
This is looking very good. How will the foot pedal thingie fit, and the temp controller? Also, let's talk a minute about the temp control for a big Turkey Cooker smelting pot...

Rich

Idaho Sharpshooter
05-01-2011, 08:15 PM
You all just remember that I took the initiative to PM with Matt and encourage him to do the pot at 90lbs. That means mine is the first one! I have shipping arranged if he can get it finished before my brother leaves StL for the Quigley.

Rich

as my Grandmother used to say "don't make me send you out to the willow tree to cut a switch..."

happy7
05-01-2011, 08:19 PM
It looks very good to me. All the things wrong with the Magma pot have been fixed. I would definitely buy one, maybe two and sell my magma.

Matt3357
05-01-2011, 08:26 PM
haha. You are definitely number 1 Rich. I will start procuring prices for parts in a couple weeks and get a price chart so I can set a retail value and all different combinations for everything. Thanks for being patient.

On top getting this together and graduating, I'll need to become a vendor sponsor I believe to sell these for a profit lest I become banned. I'll have to give Ken a call to set that up. Patience from you guys will be needed.

Any other feedback on the design? I believe I have addressed all the issues discussed earlier, but other ideas always arise.

Thanks,
Matt

Matt3357
05-01-2011, 08:33 PM
happy7,

What was wrong with Magma pot that I have fixed with my design? Just curious.

Matt

Matt3357
05-01-2011, 10:10 PM
Rich,

I just reread your post where you asked where the foot pedal would fit in. I am planning on offering types of pots in the fact that one will be manually operated and one will be electric. The foot pedal on the electric will just be a momentary contact switch hooked into the circuit. I just got another idea to offer a foot pedal on the manually operated pot which would be a foot pedal that pulls the lever down via throttle cable. All this will be in the product chart I put together in a couple weeks.

Matt

Matt3357
05-02-2011, 12:04 AM
I have come across a bit of snag. Nothing detrimental but maybe you guys can help me out. I have been doing some research about mechanical thermostats and have come up pretty much empty on an economical option. What I want is called a pressure thermostat. It is the same style that RCBS uses. I found one from Waage:

http://waage.thomasnet.com/item/accessories-replacement-parts/replacement-thermostats-and-controls/knp6-36?

but as you can see, the price is more than a PID setup.

I also found this on an old thread on here.

http://orders.ppe.com/odr/rbpperetail.htm?p-part=B-200

Basically it is an adjustable bimetal switch. I couldn't imagine it being very accurate and would be a pain because it has to mount on the pot.

If anyone has any ideas, please let me know.

Matt

happy7
05-02-2011, 12:16 AM
The magma pot you can't see under unless it is mounted at chest height almost. And the mold guide is very, very awkward to adjust if you use different molds. Plus it has no indicator as to whether the heating band is on. And no on/off switch other than the thermostat.

As far as the thermostat, you won't need that for PID models, correct? That is what I want.

Idaho Sharpshooter
05-02-2011, 01:13 AM
Matt,

1. height under spout. I was in on the NOE 323471 buy. Five cavity mould with the end two cavities HP'ed is going to run nearly four inches in height. Swede can give you exact dimensions. I believe the mould support is going to have to be a rail, not the rod. Someone here with better camera and photo posting skills is going to have to post.
I think the rail can be something simple like a 1/4" wide by 1/2" tall by .1" thick piece alloy or aluminum. These moulds are going to have to rest on the rail and slide along under the spout to work.

Rich

Ta-Da! Osama's dead!

Matt3357
05-02-2011, 01:30 AM
Gotcha on the Magma. Got all that under control. And no the PID models will not require a thermostat. I was going to see if I could offer a simpler model for a bit less, but it is looking like that is a no go. I'll keep looking but I think I can sell a PID unit for a decent price. Gonna have to fire up the plasma cutter and welder and we'll be rolling in no time. (meaning like a month)

Matt

Matt3357
05-02-2011, 01:41 AM
Rich,

In that drawing we are at 4 3/8" inches from bottom of nozzle to top of plate. I'll bump it up a bit.

For the mold guide, are you talking more like the lyman mold guide? Some pictures of the mold in question would be very helpful. I think I can make one that will mount on the rear upright and support it like you are talking. We will see.

Matt

tonyjones
05-02-2011, 12:32 PM
Matt,

I cannot speak for others but I would prefer PID control to any T-stat. Especially if the same PID unit can be used with both the casting and melting pots, lube/sizer heater, hot plate, etc. However, if you can figure out who Waage buys theit T-stat from you will probably find a better price.

I plan to build a casting bench with adjustable height so I can place the pot at differing elevations for ladle casting or bottom pouring. Therefore, I don't need the notched bottom feature that you illustrated. I also don't need the hot spot but it's not a deal killer either way.

When you have the opportunity, please provide illustrations of your PID controller and the PB control for the valve actuator you intend to use. Some description of their connections would be helpful. A drawing of your valve assembly would also be appreciated.

Thanks and regards,

Tony

Matt3357
05-02-2011, 01:57 PM
Tony,

PID is the base model for this unit for sure. When I get my PID unit back up and running, I'll post a picture of how I have it set up.

As far as the notch goes, since these pots will be fabricated from scratch (meaning no mass production) Simple changes like that are easy to accommodate for. Some people want the notch, some don't.

The push button would either apply direct power to the solenoid to actuate the valve or it will operate a relay that would actuate the solenoid. Not sure which way yet. I will post a cut away picture of the valve assembly later this evening.

The control box will contain connections for both the push button and the foot pedal. It will be a simple unit.

Matt

Matt3357
05-03-2011, 12:20 AM
Valve Assembly
http://i570.photobucket.com/albums/ss143/Matt3357/Nozzletopleft-1.jpg

Nozzle
http://i570.photobucket.com/albums/ss143/Matt3357/ValveAssembly.jpg
http://i570.photobucket.com/albums/ss143/Matt3357/NozzleBottomLeft.jpg

Valve rod seated in nozzle cutaway view
http://i570.photobucket.com/albums/ss143/Matt3357/ValveCutAway-1.jpg

If you have any questions or feedback on this valve design I would love to hear it. I have one just like this on the pot on my lead shot maker so I know it holds up 60lbs of liquid lead without a drip. The seat is comprised of a 9/32" counter sink with an 82 deg angle (drill bit) and the valve rod tip has a tool steel ball bearing welded to it. Perfect sphere and super smooth makes for a great seal with zero sensitivity to alignment angle.

Thanks,
Matt

Matt3357
05-03-2011, 12:25 AM
I forgot to explain that the two 3/16" holes on the side of the nozzle are for the lead to run into. The nozzle is threaded into the bottom of the pot until the holes are just almost all the way above the bottom of the pot then the nut will be tightened against the bottom of the pot and the bolt and nozzle will be welded together. This does two things, it allows for precise placement of the nozzle every time, minimizes leaks by sealing the threads, and adds mass to the nozzle so it becomes a much less efficient fin. The pot I have right now uses a 1/2" bolt and will freeze up if I am not careful. So far I am good with the beefier nozzle with zero freezes.

Matt

old wanderer
05-03-2011, 01:46 AM
Matt,

When you finally get firmed up on everything, do not be shocked if you suddely hear from some of us "lurkers" out here that have been silent so far.

OeldeWolf
05-03-2011, 01:57 AM
Yep, lurkers like me. I may not be able to afford a pot, but an hoping to afford a pid unit. Though if I get a new tenant in, maybe a pot could be also afforded.

happy7
05-03-2011, 08:42 AM
Could the tip of the valve be cone shaped to allow it to fit into the sprue hole on the sprue plate a little? This will make for easier pressure casting on those molds that need that.

happy7
05-03-2011, 08:45 AM
At least with a removeable nozzle, if we later come up with a design that works better, it could be changed.

Matt3357
05-03-2011, 08:58 AM
happy7,

Things like that are easy changes and could easily be changed for any specific order since each will be fabbed individually.

I have a few things I need to work out with the way the pot attaches to the stand, but I think we are close to a firm design that will be easy to produce.

If there are any other questions, please don't hesitate to ask.

Thanks,
Matt

dromia
05-03-2011, 10:35 AM
Just one Matt, when you going to be taking orders so I can get in line. :D

dodgyrog
05-03-2011, 05:41 PM
It looks like you'll have two orders from this neck of the woods.
Combined shipping with Dromia's might be beneficial.
I can't wait to see the finished article.

Longwood
05-03-2011, 06:22 PM
At least with a removeable nozzle, if we later come up with a design that works better, it could be changed.

I am building one from a propane tank but I put a flat bottomed pocket at the bottom for the valve.
I made the rod on my valve with a 3/4" long pin which is smaller in diameter than the valve hole below a simple taper on the rod so it will not lift out of the bottom piece of the valve. That way all I needed was a tapered hole that matched the taper on the rod. No need for so much machining and the holes at the bottom. I may redesign the bottom part of the valve and make another with a long lapped taper on the rod and top part of the valve similar to yours except without the sideways holes then a fast taper farther down on the bottom for a dual seal if mine does not work well.
I am out of acetylene right now so I cant do the little bit of brazing I need to do on the valve so it is removable instead of welding it on but I will try to remember to take photo's as I build to put here.

Cadillo
05-03-2011, 11:37 PM
I own four of the WAAGE K4757 20# pots . The current price directly from WAAGE is $162. The company also makes VERY large capacity pots as well.

Jerry

http://www.fototime.com/DF1271887CEBA67/standard.jpg

That's a nice looking setup. I went to the website and it's not there. I wonder if they have dropped it from their line.

tonyjones
05-04-2011, 11:03 AM
Cadillo,

I don't think the Waage K4757 pot has ever been on their website. They make this pot as a service to bullet casters. Call Waage at 1-800-922-4365 and ask for Marsha.

Even if this pot is not a big money maker for Waage a lot of people here love theirs. I've thought about buying two or three of them on several occasions.

Tony

Idaho Sharpshooter
05-04-2011, 10:28 PM
I think I have THE answer on the mould guide/rail. If you have two rods on the right side (supporting the pot), you just need an aluminum rail about 1/2" by 1". Drill a 1/4" diameter hole in each to correspond to the rod spacing and thread them. You can just use a hexhead screw (measure the height before you start it, for the mould depth you will be using) and tighten the screw. I'd suggest square posts.

Rich

PM me and I'll give you my phone number if you wish. We can bounce ideas off each other easier on the telly.

Matt3357
05-04-2011, 10:44 PM
I'll PM SwedeNelson to see if he can send me a picture and dimensions and we'll go from there. I am sure I can come up with an easy to adjust/easy to manufacture design. Got one more final tomorrow and one more project due friday then graduation on saturday. So close I can taste it.

Thanks,
Matt

SciFiJim
05-04-2011, 10:48 PM
Matt, Congratulations on the graduation. I'm sure its been a long road and at times you wondered if it would ever end. As you can see here, a good educations WILL pay off.

Matt3357
05-04-2011, 10:53 PM
Oh it already has Jim, I got a job working for Sunnen Products here in St. Louis designing fixtures and tooling for their automated honing equipment. Can't wait to start June 1st.

Matt

EDK
05-05-2011, 11:51 PM
.................................................. .................

My brother lives back there. I can have him pick it up about June 5th and bring it to The Quigley.
.................................................. .................................................. ...............................

Rich

Yeah, right.....with all the junk I bring with me.....and I'd probably end up buying one for myself and have no allowance for months! I'm leaving on the 11th.


:cbpour::redneck::Fire:

Mohillbilly
05-06-2011, 01:08 AM
How did I miss this thread ? looks like good stuff and I'll bet I could go pick mine up locally . I do like that shot maker a lot too. Could/ would you do one of those again too ?

Idaho Sharpshooter
05-06-2011, 01:28 AM
Matt,

does it over complicate things to mill slots on the right hand supports so a set screw could be used to tighten the rail after you set the height for a mould?

Rich

Matt3357
05-06-2011, 08:49 AM
Rich,

Since I don't have a mill, yes it would way over complicate things. I have officially turned everything in for school as of 5pm yesterday. I have family coming into town this weekend for graduating and then next week I'll get back to finishing the modeling. I plan on having some choices for you guys.

Mohillbilly,

Local pickups are always welcome. As far as the shotmaker, the price prohibits me from ever making another. However, what I plan on offering is a trade deal. 50% of the lead you give me you get back in shot. So if you send me a 100lbs of lead ($20) and return shipping, I'll send you 50lbs of shot. One flat rate box holds 50lbs of shot. So with this deal, you get 50lbs of shot for less than the price of one bag so long as your lead is cheap. For local swappers, obviously the deal is sweeter. I figure with lead getting harder and harder to find, this will be a good way to bring in enough supply to last me a long long time.

Matt

Idaho Sharpshooter
05-07-2011, 11:51 AM
Matt,

I have another idea for a solid long term product you can offer. Check your PM's.

regards,

Rich

Matt3357
05-09-2011, 09:50 PM
Ok guys. Still haven't had time to finalize the design, but I have been thinking about how I want to offer these for sale. I want to offer a couple of different models for the different types of casters out there but what I don't want is to take open orders and be completely over run. This way I can control how busy I am without upsetting too many people. I am planning on eventually offering the following.

6" diam
Bottom Pour Casing Pot
Ladle casting Pot


4" diam (smaller capacity = cheaper)
Ladle casting pot.

PID control units (for those that just want a unit to control other things)

and finally
8" diam 120lb capacity elec smelting pot.


All units will be PID controlled of course.

These will be done with group buys.

I am going back home the weekend of the 20th to start gathering materials and getting a game plan for how to best produce these things.

I am going to get a hold of 45nut to see what I need to do to offer my services in a group buy.

Matt

bwgdog
05-10-2011, 04:53 PM
Matt-Looking forward to a 6" bottom pour casting pot w/pid. Barry

mpbarry1
05-11-2011, 01:09 AM
6" bottom pour for me

tonyjones
05-11-2011, 11:24 AM
Matt,

If I buy a 6" and an 8" pot will both come with PID controllers or will I be able to save some money by using one controller for both pots (not simultaneously)? Will the connection between the controller and the pot be a simple plug in/out affair? I also assume that both pots will be bottom pour. Have you considered having the bottom of the pot slope toward the valve?

Thanks and regards,

Tony

dromia
05-11-2011, 11:25 AM
I'm in for a 6" bottom pour. :D

Matt3357
05-11-2011, 01:26 PM
Tony,

I have not considered that. It would increase the difficulty of the manufacturing for one thing and would direct all junk into the nozzle. If you want one like that, I am sure we could work something out. Good but expected news, I passed the drug test and am ready to start my first day at the new job.

Oh and on the smelting pot. I had not considered a bottom pour option at this time. I would need to up the size of the nozzle hole and valve. Not sure I want to get into that right now, but we'll see.

As far as the PID situation goes, I haven't exactly figured out how I want to offer this set up. I have a couple of ideas as far as stand alone purchases and combo deals, but for simplicity I think I will offer the PID setup as a stand alone entity. So you can order what ever pot you want for a price and add the price of a PID setup into it if you need it. So each Pot alone would have a price and then the PID setup would have a price. That way you could order one PID and then any combination of Pots for it. So you could do what some guys do and get a few of the small ladle pots to keep different alloys in but only have one controller. Anything within reason is possible.

All PIDs will have two connections on them, a standard outlet and a special K type thermocouple case mounted plug. So disconnection of the pot is as simple as plugging and unplugging the thermocouple and cord from the sides of the box. If you can plug in a lamp, you can connect your pot to the PID.


Matt

tonyjones
05-11-2011, 05:27 PM
Matt,

I'm not sure I can handle the complexities of plug type connections. You see, I do not possess a BSME, I only got a lowly BSCE.

LOL,

Tony

Blake Stephenson
05-16-2011, 12:22 AM
I'll take a 6" bottom pour casting pot. Good luck with Sunnen. Their engine hones are great.

Blake

Springfield
05-16-2011, 12:45 AM
Are you going to offer a 2 hole nozzle so I can pour 2 cavities at a time like on my Magma? It really helps if you do volume like I do.

Cranium
05-19-2011, 11:31 PM
I'm very interested in this project. I've been doing some research on this myself to build my own but I lack the equipment to manufacture the pot and bottom pour mechanism.

Your design will be competing with the Magma Masterpot; which costs $575 without a PID and has only a 40 lb capacity.
http://magmaengineering.com/images/stories/products/MasterpotSm.png (http://magmaengineering.com/products/masterpot).

Advantages of your design:
Higher capacity
PID included for better temperature control
Solenoid actuated pour lever
Cheaper


Advantages of the Magma Masterpot:

Higher wattage - 1500w vs 1200w
Beefier base design
Better mold guides (although it depends on the mold you have) Double pouring spout
Established as a quality product in the industry
Direct upgrade path to the Master Caster


Here is a thread I found of another pot design you can use for ideas:
http://bliksemseplek.com/boolits.html
http://bliksemseplek.com/images/boolits/compare_sm.jpg

I really like your bottom valve design with the ball bearing welded on the rod and allowing for some slop without sacrificing any sealing capabilities. I hope to see you continue to innovate and improve on your design to ensure you have a unique and reliable product you can market for a fair price. Great work so far!

Matt3357
05-20-2011, 09:01 AM
Cranium,

Thanks for the comparison between my design and Magma's. I have never seen one in person, so I did not know what all the details were. It has a double pouring spout? How does that work?

Two things to consider about my design that you have in the advantages of the magma pot:

The base design of my pot is made up of 3 3/8" steel rods that go all the way to the top rim of the pot and will be bolted through the lip of the pot into the ends of the rods. Way more than beefy enough to hold up 90 lbs of lead while being minimal enough to have no line of sight issues.

And a variation in mold guide is on the design table. As soon as I get the first base constructed, I can start developing a better guide. Some of the guys really like the RCBS style mold guide that is on there now but others have molds with hollow point pin handles on the bottom that would interfere with this style guide, so a new one similar to the Magma style, in that it will support on the edges of the mold, will be developed for use on my style.

As you can imagine that since I have not seen a Magma Masterpot, I have never seen a master caster. If I had access to one, I should be able to modify the design to fit one, and maybe even a double pour spout if there was enough market. Who knows, we are just getting started.

Oh and the 1200w band heater is a common size in a 6 inch diameter. The more power the better, I agree, but I can get these for pretty reasonable with out special ordering them. I will definitely be checking some more before I order some.


Matt

midnight
05-20-2011, 10:01 AM
How much room is there between the spout and the bottom plate? I need plenty of room to design my own mold supports. I have one eye and zero depth perception. I use an adjustable stop plate at the rear to align the sprue holes fore and aft. The little stops on the RCBS guide adjust for side to side. Now I use a wood block with a groove in the center for Miha's molds with pins sticking out the bottom. What I would need is enough room underneath to do all this fooling around.

Bob

happy7
05-20-2011, 10:03 AM
For what it's worth, my biggest disssapointment with the Masterpot is the mold guide. If you only use one kind of mold, I can see where it would work ok. However, if you have various types of mold, and use different ones all the time then the masterpot mold guide system is a total failure. I absolutely hate it and that is not strong enough. I could not believe I had paid so much for something which I feel is so poorly thought out. The RCBS one, on the other hand, is in my opinion, brilliant.

Now, please understand, I am not saying that everyone should feel the same way I do. Others may love the masterpot guide system and it may work well for their uses. All I am saying is it doesn't work for me at all.

Matt's proposed mold guide is in fact a large part of the attraction for me of Matt's pot, along with the better visibility.

The visibility issue is a big one for me. I don't like haveing to work with my molds a shoulder height. I don't find this very ergonomic. It means lifting the molds up higher to fill them, then dropping them down to empty them. And then if I want to ladle cast, I have to lower the pot down to a lower level.

Some other dissadvantages of the masterpot is it gives no indication as to whether the element is on or not, and also the temperature controll has not been very stable for me. I see fluctuations of +- 50 degrees (I don't have the PID option).

The big advantage of the masterpot over the RCBS is capacity and the fact that it doesn't leak. The extra 20 pounds is worth the extra annoyances.

tonyjones
05-20-2011, 10:52 AM
One feature of the Masterpot that I find attractive is that the base is easily removable/replaceable so that the pot can be converted from a bottom pour to a ladle pot and back again.

So far I have mostly cast with a ladle. I'm having a difficult time imagining a single mould guide that will work well with Cramer, RG and removable pin HP moulds.

Tony

Cranium
05-20-2011, 11:08 AM
Matt,

I've only seen the Magma pot in pictures and youtube videos myself. But their product manual does give a nice parts diagram that shows their assembly, single and double orifice plates. :) Take a look at their design and perhaps it will give you some additional ideas for yours as well.
http://www.magmaengineering.com/PDF/Master_CASTER_Instructions.pdf

Do you feel that 1200w is enough to melt 90lbs of lead in a decent amount of time? Could 2 - 3" (or 2 1/2) strip heaters be wired in parallel and be more cost effective with higher output?

My 2 cents on the mold guide: Since this is one of the most difficult things to design that will meet everyone's needs, I would keep it simple but allow the flexibility of easily changing it out. Either you or someone else can then make guides that fit more specific needs.

In regards to the magma design over yours, yours is much better considering that it is still in development and is going to change based on the communities needs. One has to deal with the Magma pot as it is. :)

Matt3357
05-20-2011, 11:47 AM
midnight,

hopefully my additional designs of mold guides will fit what you need and not require you to manufacture your own, but if you do need to, I can make the distance from the spout to the base any amount you want. As of right now, I think it is 6 inches. I can't remember for sure as I am at work away from my drawings. It would be really easy to modify.

Tony,

As far as remove-ability, all it will take on my design is removing 3 screws from the top plate and lifting the pot off the supports. Not a big deal at all. But most people are not going to want to take their pot apart every time they want to ladle cast, so what I would recommend with my pot, is to turn the bottom pour away from you and putting the pot on a lower surface. Or better yet, buy one of my pots specifically for ladle casting and control it with the same PID as for your bottom pour.

Cranium,

I am not sure about the 1200w and a reasonable time. "Reasonable time" is so subjective. On my shotmaker, I have about 3000 watts on the upper pot and it can melt 60 lbs of lead in 12 minutes. I would imagine that the 1200w heater will melt 60 lbs in probably 25 to 30 minutes, not sure until I try it. I do know that the band heater works much much better than a flexible rod heater and with the insulation, should be much much much more efficient. The problem with doubling up on band heaters is not only the major cost upgrade, but also the current load on the circuit. I am trying to keep this 120v for simplicity, but could certainly go to 240 if someone wanted it.

I should have some updates as far as part acquisition goes after this weekend. Going to the welding shop in the morning to order and price some material.

Matt

Springfield
05-20-2011, 12:25 PM
My Magma 40 lber takes about 35 minutes to melt and bring up to heat 40 lbs of lead. I wouldn't want to go with any less wattage especially if the pot gets bigger. Actually I haven't fond any reason to need more than 40 lbs. When using 2 6 cavity molds I can crank out 1200 bullets an hour and I have never came close to outrunning the pot, I just keep feeding in ingots and the 1500 watts melts them just fine. I wouldn't mind a 220 pot. Actually I ordered a 220 Magma pot but they messd up and sent me the 115 volt version. It works fine, although the plug wire does get over room temperature on long melts. Here are osme pics of my alterd pot as far as the muld guide goes. I just installed a rod through the reversed base. If I need more room I can just take it out. I could put in different height holes if I wanted but this height seems to work well with most of my moulds. The one and 2 hole spout are just bolted to the bottom of the pot, makes it super easy to cleanout the plugged holes on the rare occasion I have one. I was thinking of making me a 3 hole version, might work well with the 6 cavity moulds.

Cranium
05-20-2011, 02:04 PM
Springfield,

I personally feel that around 30 minutes would be a good goal to go after for 'adequate heating' with a mostly full pot.

How insulated is your magma pot? Does it get too hot to touch the sides? How about the base?

I like the idea of a 3 hole orifice plate but do you think there is enough room to fit that in? It may also require a change to the valve to get more flow. Can you take a photo of your 2 hole orifice plate by itself with a couple different angles so we can see how it's made?

Matt3357
05-20-2011, 03:01 PM
Dang I wish I had a lathe and a mill. Life would be much easier on projects like this. I am interested to know how insulated the sides of the magma pot are as well and how that correlates to the start-up time.

Matt

Cranium
05-20-2011, 03:54 PM
Another pot to throw in the mix to draw ideas from is the Ballisti-Cast 100 lb Mark II Bottom Pour Lead Pot. It looks to be a solid desing.
I'm not going to post an image because the only one I found is too large.
http://www.ballisti-cast.com/Free-Standing%20Cast.htm

It has a 2600 watt submerged heater heater rather than a band heater....might be a cost effective option to consider.
It also has a 1 or 2 orifice option; but don't know if it is interchangeable by the user.
It has an adjustable mold guide side plate and end stop.
Price: $1400

Their less expensive 45 lb pot has 2 - 750 watt heaters with everything spec'd the same.
Price: $825

Not sure why they are priced so high though....there is nothing substantially unique about them.

Matt3357
05-20-2011, 04:09 PM
Not sure why they are priced so high though....there is nothing substantially unique about them.

Yeah, the price makes no sense to me. Nothing unique except their over complicated design. Will look closer later, but as of right now, nothing jumps out as a good idea.

Matt

cbrick
05-20-2011, 07:02 PM
Here is the Mark II bottom pour pot with the file size reduced in case anyone wants to see it.

Rick

Springfield
05-20-2011, 09:13 PM
The Magma has about 3/4" of insulation between the pot and the outside of the case. The outside and bottom do get hot, but not nearly as hot as the lead. I'll take off the 2 orifice spout and get som pics, but basically it looks just like the 1 orifice except it has to 2 holes on the one side. One the inside the 2 holes are connecte by a small trough/groove. This is where any zinc/crud builds up, so removing the orifice and picking out the small piece of crud always makes it flow free again. This can be done while it is hot if you are careful as the spigot is still closed.

Cranium
05-20-2011, 10:03 PM
Cool. Thanks for the info. So if the insulation is just average, then Matt's design can trade off on some power with thermal efficiency.
I watched the orifice cleaning video and it did look like 2 holes straight through -~1/2" plate but they never fliPped it around to see the trough.

Southern Son
05-22-2011, 05:50 AM
The more I see of this, the more interested I get.

ph4570
05-22-2011, 10:32 AM
Matt,

I just came across this thread. Congratulations on the education and new job. You pot looks good. I hope it works out for you. Very enterprising of you to tackle this project. I have been pondering making one but once you are up and running I will seriously consider one of yours.

Springfield
05-22-2011, 01:49 PM
Magma's 90 lb pot is 3000 watts. I would hate for you to make a bunch of 90 lbers at 1200 watts only to find out it is way underpowered. It's not just a matter of increasing insulation, when you are in the middle of a large casting session, and I assume anyone who buys a 90 lb pot is going to do that, the last thing you need is to be dumping in ingots and have spout freeze up on you 'cause it can't melt the new lead fast enough. Personally I never saw a reason to get a pot larger than my Magma 40 lber, and I do this on a small commercial basis and cast 2-3000 bullets in a session. I'm also thinking that 1200 watts will take at least 45 minutes to melt 90 lbs, maybe longer. I'm sure you were going to already but do some testing on the first pot before you commit to the design. I hope this works out well, I would like to get another nice pot, then I can sell my RCBS 22 lber and have a Magma 40 and whatever yours turns out to be.

cbrick
05-22-2011, 02:07 PM
Diddo Springfield,

My Magma 40 pound pot takes 35-40 minutes to get to casting temp (700 degrees) in the summer when it starts out at 90 degrees+, in the winter when it starts at about 35-40 degrees add 10-15 minutes to melt time.

Rick

Cranium
05-22-2011, 06:20 PM
Magma's 90 lb pot is 3000 watts. I would hate for you to make a bunch of 90 lbers at 1200 watts only to find out it is way underpowered. It's not just a matter of increasing insulation, when you are in the middle of a large casting session, and I assume anyone who buys a 90 lb pot is going to do that, the last thing you need is to be dumping in ingots and have spout freeze up on you 'cause it can't melt the new lead fast enough. Personally I never saw a reason to get a pot larger than my Magma 40 lber, and I do this on a small commercial basis and cast 2-3000 bullets in a session. I'm also thinking that 1200 watts will take at least 45 minutes to melt 90 lbs, maybe longer. I'm sure you were going to already but do some testing on the first pot before you commit to the design. I hope this works out well, I would like to get another nice pot, then I can sell my RCBS 22 lber and have a Magma 40 and whatever yours turns out to be.

I understand where you are coming from with capacity. BUT....if you are able to purchase another pot that
Has more capacity than the magma (if you ever need it) Has better temperature control than the base magma (PID) Is more efficient than the magma (better insulation = less power required) Costs less than the magma
I'm sure you would be quite interested. I had been looking at a magma as well. Even the Master caster was an option for me. But I justify my purchases with how many bullets it takes to cast in order to pay itself off. I have to cast 8,000 to pay off what I've bought so far and I've done 1400 so far. <-- NOOB caster. ;)

Also, since he has his degree in engineering, I'm sure he knows all about prototyping and testing before declaring it 'all good'.

Springfield
05-22-2011, 07:14 PM
Absolutely no offense to anyone but an engineering degree may need some input from some solid "experience" . I read quite a few books on casting and followed the sage advice here but actually casting bullets itself was the best teacher. Still not sure why the 90 lb capacity is so loved, seems like a bit of overkill. It will take twice as much electricity to get it melted in the first place, so unless you always cast at least 90 lbs worth of lead you will be wasting electricity and money. And if it takes 30 minutes to melt 40 lbs of lead at 1500 watts, it gotta be double that for 90 at 1200, unless you have managed to change the laws of physics. Or maybe you are just like that guy in the movie" My cousin Vinny", and just "cook faster" than most:D

Idaho Sharpshooter
05-24-2011, 12:42 AM
Springfield,

1. when I start casting 960gr boolets for my 10 Bore Double Rifle or 900gr GC for my 600 OK it doesn't seem that big.
2. a 90 pounder is big enough to let you use it to alloy as well.
3. for the bottom pour contingent, you do not have to fill it.

I have two 4-cavity moulds for the 311247 buy ordered. Rotating them will drop the level quickly.

Rich

Springfield
05-24-2011, 01:27 PM
I can do 2- 6 cavity 250 grain 45 moulds and put out 1300 bullets an hour and never strain my 40 lb Magma. That's 46 lbs an hour. I alloy lead with my turkey fryer and a 180 lb capacity stainless steel pot. I like to do at least 1000 lbs in a session. I would never alloy in my casting pot, like to keep it clean. Just a personal opinion but I don't think capacity trumps wattage. Bigger isn't always better. If you need to change alloy and do a small batch you will still have to heat up 90 lbs as it might burn out the element or at least damage/overheat the pot if you leave an area with no lead. Maybe I will just have to order a smaller version if he offers it.

Idaho Sharpshooter
05-24-2011, 01:48 PM
Like my Grandfather told me; "vote with your wallet..."
I have the utmost confidence in Matt working this out.

Rich

Cranium
05-24-2011, 02:46 PM
I can do 2- 6 cavity 250 grain 45 moulds and put out 1300 bullets an hour and never strain my 40 lb Magma. That's 46 lbs an hour. I alloy lead with my turkey fryer and a 180 lb capacity stainless steel pot. I like to do at least 1000 lbs in a session. I would never alloy in my casting pot, like to keep it clean. Just a personal opinion but I don't think capacity trumps wattage. Bigger isn't always better. If you need to change alloy and do a small batch you will still have to heat up 90 lbs as it might burn out the element or at least damage/overheat the pot if you leave an area with no lead. Maybe I will just have to order a smaller version if he offers it.

If it does not appeal to you that is fine. I don't think you should be dismissing it, as you are, without it being proven. Make suggestions, share your experiences, but don't judge a concept that has not even been created yet. Imagine if people did this when combustion engines were invented or electricity was harnessed as a tool. Encourage innovation rather than discourage it.

If the initial creation isn't up to par, it can be changed. If there are issues, they can be corrected. And even if the project is dropped, there is research and data that can be used by someone in the future.

Don't be a hater! ;) Let's see where this goes.

tonyjones
05-24-2011, 05:31 PM
This IS a discussion thread. Springfield and others have raised legitimate concerns. It harms no one to discuss these things among ourselves. In all likelihood this discussion will lead to a better product for those of us that end up purchasing and using them. I too respect Matt's talent and willingness to work on this project and I may well end up purchasing two pots. These discussions have, so far, been respectful, curteous and friendly. I hope that will continue.

Best regards,

Tony

Idaho Sharpshooter
05-24-2011, 05:59 PM
Tell me again, how you get that 46lbs of alloy into a 40lb pot. Hee-hee!

When I sit down to cast, I do not want to have to do anything else until I decide to.
I came to the 90lb number based on being able to make a large enough alloy to cast a couple times if I opt to do so.

I also tend to an "Overkill" preference VS the notion of "just big enough". It's why I have a Dodge 3/4ton Diesel 4-door with an 8ft box, instead of a half ton short box 2-door with a gas engine. And a 10 Bore double rifle. With a 960gr mould, I will be casting a pound in less than two minutes.

The good news; Matt might offer a smaller capacity version down the road if there is sufficient demand.

There is also a difference between offering a suggestion and saying according to the laws of physics you can't do that.

I'd just go along with the notion that if you can't say something complimentary or helpful, then save it for a PM.


Rich

Springfield
05-24-2011, 08:01 PM
I don't get 46 lbs into a 40 lbs pot, but I do cast for 2-3 hours at a time. I just keep feeding ingots in my pot for as long as I like without a hiccup. I know 1500 watts in a 40 lb pot can do this. I have no idea whether a 90 lb pot with 1200 watts can do this, and I suspect neither do you. I am interested in getting one of these new pots if they work. I am just trying to give the maker the benefit of my experience. He can use it or not, simple as that. I'm through playing the Devil's Advocate, and will just wait and see how this all pans out. I hope it does, it sounds like it would be a good quality pot.

Cranium
05-25-2011, 01:40 AM
i don't get 46 lbs into a 40 lbs pot, but i do cast for 2-3 hours at a time. I just keep feeding ingots in my pot for as long as i like without a hiccup. I know 1500 watts in a 40 lb pot can do this. I have no idea whether a 90 lb pot with 1200 watts can do this, and i suspect neither do you. I am interested in getting one of these new pots if they work. I am just trying to give the maker the benefit of my experience. He can use it or not, simple as that. I'm through playing the devil's advocate, and will just wait and see how this all pans out. I hope it does, it sounds like it would be a good quality pot.

+1 :)

happy7
05-25-2011, 08:12 AM
Well, it sounds like there are going to be option in terms of pot size. Personally, after having used a 40 pound pot, that is big enough for almost every application, and I cast some large bullets. The problem for me with going bigger than that is that even when you have a small casting job to do, you will have to heat the whole pot (if you left if full of alloy), you are going to 90 pounds of alloy in front of you to make you sweat (which in arkansas in the summer is a consideration), and if the pot is deaper, it is going to be harder to ladel cast from.

The great thing about Matt is that it sounds like he is going to be flexible in his design, and those who want/need the bigger pot can have it, and those who prefer the smaller pot can also have it.

Springfield. Please stay involved in this topic. I certainly value the input you have had so far. You have a lot of experience we can all benefit from with the design of this thing.

midnight
05-25-2011, 09:08 AM
I'll keep lurking here. This pot sounds like what I have been looking for. A 40 lb pot is plenty for me but we will see what the consensus is. I am especially interested in the design of the mold guide. I need it adjustable front to back, vertically, and horizontally. I was thinking of doing a PID controller myself but having someone else who knows what he is doing design it appeals to me more and more. I might need two of them. I wish I had some technical expertise to contribute but I do not. I can just indicate what I would like and hope it parallels the rest of the members.

Bob

Matt3357
05-25-2011, 11:11 AM
Hello everyone,

It seems that I have missed a few postings to this thread and need to mitigate a few things. First and foremost, a 90 lb pot is huge and 1200watts is not much heat on it. The more I think about it, the more I think that a pot that size really needs to be on a 240v circuit only with about 3000watts. That puts it around 12.5 amps. I came up with the 1200watts because that is the size I can find a good source of without having to go through a company like Watlow or Hotwatt or Chromalox etc. I can source the 1200watt at an affordable price and don't want to get involved with a company until after I make the first couple pots and then am able to make a large enough order from them. I will see what I can find and get back to you. But I do agree that 1200watts just would not cut it.

As far as pot capacity goes, whatever flips your switch. I can adjust the depth of the pot very easily thereby adjusting the capacity. The one I make for myself will only be 50-60lbs as that I what I want/need.

Also, if you remember back a couple pages, I outlined what kind of product offering I was planning on having once things got rolling and that included smaller pots for ladle casting and a much larger pot for smelting. If you know what you want, I am sure we can do it within reason. I can do this because I will fabricate each one, not mass produce. Be thinking about what you want and please don't criticize other peoples decisions. I started with a 90lb design, because that is what Idaho wanted, no big deal to modify, it just gave me a place to start.

I appreciate everyone's input and while I have just completed my degree, this is not my first rodeo. Experience is the best teacher by far, and after building my own first pot and designing and building my shot making system, I have learned a lot. I am here to answer any questions or concerns anyone has, but lets keep them civilized.

BTW, if anyone knows where I can source band heaters for an inexpensive price, please let me know.

Thanks,
Matt

cbrick
05-25-2011, 12:57 PM
Like many posting on this thread I am very interested in these pots. My Magma 40# pot serves my casting needs very well, my interest lies in a bottom pour smelting pot of about 100# but not with a 1200W element and not with 240 volt. Given the time it takes the Magma 1500W to heat up 40 pounds 1200W and 100 pounds I don't think would work plus, I rent and dont have 240 available. No idea what it might cost to have 240 installed or even if the property owner would allow it.

I don't know what the max wattage on a 120v line would be, I think about 1500-1800W but not sure. I would expect a longer heat up time with 100 pounds of alloy but 1200W I think would be way to long, possibly what I would like isn't feasible. Don't know.

Rick

Matt3357
05-25-2011, 01:56 PM
Rick,

I don't see that happening unfortunately. For a standard 120v outlet, you are limited to 15 amps that would put you at a max of 1800W. Even 1800W would be too weak to be useful. You would need a much greater heat source. Do you have an electric dryer? If so, you could make an extension cord to run it outside to get 240. I know my dryer is hooked to a 30 amp breaker. Maxed out you could run 7200 watts. I would probably put 5K watts on the pot. Should be plenty of heat to melt 100lbs of alloy in about a half hour. You could also go the turkey fryer route, which is what I would do in your position. It would be much cheaper and more convenient for you in your current residence. I hope I helped.

Thanks,
Matt

bwgdog
05-25-2011, 03:19 PM
Former electic lineman here. Been to many homes while working. New homes are wired with a 15amp GFI on the garage and outside outlets. Most casters will not have one pot going in the garage. Normal is- tv-radio-fans-refrigerator-coffee pot-hot plate-did I miss anything? We all need to be aware of the safety limits of our wiring systems and if in doubt-check it out. bwgdog

Matt3357
05-25-2011, 03:27 PM
Good advice bwgdog. I guess I used to wiring up my own circuits so I know what is loading on what line. I don't want to give advice that could be used against me, so I would definitely recommend anyone that buys one of my pots to be sure to have their circuits checked out to make sure they are not being overloaded and can handle whatever the load may end up being on my pots.

Thanks,
Matt

Cranium
05-25-2011, 03:47 PM
I did a calculation with the assumptions of:


Pot Width 6"
Pot Depth 8"
Pot insulation 2" rock wool
Pot Weight 10 Lbs
Pot Lead Capacity 92.7 Lbs
Top Surface Area (ft2) 0.2
Pot shell surface Area (ft2) 3.14159 <--- Pi by coincidence :mrgreen:
Starting Temp 80F
End Temp 700F
Heat up time 30 min



A 90 lb lead capacity pot would require 2750W to achieve a 30 minute heat up time. This is well beyond the capabilities of a 15A 120V circuit [total] limit of 1800W.

To check my calculations, I sized down the pot to 5" W x 5" D (40 lbs) and this resulted in 1500 W required to heat the lead in 30 min. This seems to be on par with what others have reported and what other pots have for their heater size.

With this in mind, the max amount of lead that a 15A 120V circuit could heat to temp in 1/2 hour is 50 lbs. This assumes a dedicated circuit so in reality, maybe 45 lbs max.

I based my calculations on formulas found here: http://www.chromalox.com/catalog/resources/technical-information/Heat-Loss-Calculations-and-Heater-Selection-Heating-Liquids.pdf
The formula used has these assumptions:

Melting point of lead = 621F
Specific heat of solid lead = 0.0306 Btu/lb/F
Specific heat of molten lead = 0.038 Btu/lb/F
Heat of fusion/lead = 10.8 Btu/lb
Specific heat of steel crucible = 0.12 Btu/lb/F
Radiation loss from molten lead surface = 1000
Surface loss from outside shell of pot 62 W/ft2
SF = Safety Factor 20%

Matt3357
05-25-2011, 04:01 PM
Nice info Cranium. I'll have to check that website out. Seems like it has some very applicable info. One reason I never bothered to do the calculations is because there is so much variation of heat transfer with different ambient conditions. So vastly different in fact that heat transfer coefficients are found by experimentation. This is good info, thank you for sharing. It is right on par with what I was beginning to realize the more I had thought about it. So it looks like I am going to have to do some sourcing of heaters from a manufacturer and a re-evaluation of the power offerings per pot.

Anyone that has shown interest have an issue with a 90lb pot going to 240v? I don't see any way around it.

I plan on offering a 6" by 5" deep model in 120v and hopefully 1500w. This would allow (filled to the brim) 58 lbs of lead. I usually leave around an inch at the top for fluxing and just some room to breathe. This would be about 46lbs of melt. I think this would be a good option for most people. For anything bigger, I think we are going to have to go 240.

Let me know your thoughts guys.

Matt

Cranium
05-25-2011, 04:25 PM
I plan on offering a 6" by 5" deep model in 120v and hopefully 1500w.

According to my spreadsheet, filling this to 4" (46 #) would require 1700W to heat in 30 minutes.

If you use 1500w, it will take ~35 minutes. This only leaves 300w (2.5 amps) of headroom on the circuit for other appliances.

cbrick
05-25-2011, 04:53 PM
Where did 30 minutes come from? Who said it had to be 30 minutes?

My RCBS 22 pounder cannot do it in 30 minutes, my Lyman cannot do it in 30 minutes and my Magma 40 pounder cannot do it in 30 minutes.

Just a suggestion but I think 30 minutes is asking an awful lot. Its kinda like going from one extreme to the other, from a 1200W 100 pound pot and an hour and a half to getting it done in 30 minutes. Meeting in the middle would be good. If an 1800W element would work on a 120v, 20 amp breaker in a reasonable time that seems like the way to go.

Can't speak for anyone else but I have a dedicated 20 amp breaker with a single outlet attached to it in my shop, its where my lead pots plug in now (yes, one at a time).

Matt3357,

Been using a turkey fryer & Dutch oven for many years, just intrigued by the idea of a 100 pound bottom pour. On the other hand, I'm not really convinced a bottom pour is the way to go with a smelter, could just get all the dirt that way.

Rick

Cranium
05-25-2011, 05:07 PM
30 minutes was just an arbitrary starting number based on previous discussions. It can certainly change and the spreadsheet I did for the calculations has the following inputs:

Pot Width (in)
Pot Depth (in)
Pot Weight (lbs)
Time desired (min)
Starting Temp (F)
End Temp (F)


I've uploaded the spreadsheet here: http://www.2shared.com/file/hoQ4A-AM/Lead_Pot_Wattage_Calculator.html

Matt3357
05-25-2011, 06:01 PM
Cbrick,

30 minutes was just a number that Cranium picked as a number. I personally do not like waiting forever for it to heat up but to be fair Cranium's calculations are just a very rough estimate. Heat transfer as I said, is not a super predictable science without a lot of educated guessing or empirical data. What will happen in the coming weeks, is I will build a 6" by 5" pot for me and a 6" by 8" pot for Idaho. I will start with 1200watt heaters because I can purchase those from grainger out right. I will do some testing and see what I kind of data I come up with. I may have jumped to conclusions earlier with the 240v requirement, but I will not know for sure until I do some testing. I do know that I won't go over 1500watts for a 120v circuit. I like a little room for safety plus a normal outlet is only rated for 15amps. Gotta cover my butt as well, please keep that in mind.

Once I get some data, I will post charts and graphs and let you guys determine for yourselves if you are ok with the melt time and temp swings with added lead. I would rather you guys have the information and pick what you think is acceptable than me tell you what you get. Do keep in mind that if I have to source different heating bands from a company, the price will likely go up a bit. Not positive because I have not got a quote back yet. Updates will be posted as they arise.

Matt

Cranium
05-25-2011, 07:21 PM
Cha-ching! 2325W 240V Band Heater $30.
http://cgi.ebay.com/NEW-Tempco-Band-Heater-MBH07209-2325W-240v-/180630818523?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item2a0e6f8edb

Matt3357
05-25-2011, 07:30 PM
haha Cranium. Key words in my request were a source. I need a place I can buy the same heater over and over again and get the same results. Otherwise I'll not be able to standardize the programming of the PID's nor replacement parts. Ebay is a perfect place to get one offs but not a steady supply.

Matt

Gunslinger1911
05-25-2011, 09:40 PM
Hello all, seems like this is really getting somewhere !!

Matt, hang in there, seems like you have a great attitude !

To put my 2 cents in - I am just looking for a 40 pounder, the Lee 20 can't keep up when I'm running 3 Lee 6 cav moulds - 2 just barely. I figure the added heat of another 20 pounds should be good when I throw in ingots.

Thanks for taking this on.

Cranium
05-25-2011, 10:44 PM
Matt,

Might be good to do a theory to practice before committing to a final design and sourcing parts. With a higher powered band heater, you could always reduce the power to see how low you can go but you can't increase the power if you buy something too small. For just under $140 you can have 4 heaters on your doorstep to test.

But, of course, it's up to you....you are the design engineer, craftsman, QC inspector, sales person and shipping. :D

Cranium
05-25-2011, 10:50 PM
Question.....
For this heater: Milacron 3994402 Band Heater 2350W 240/480V

It's rated at both 240 and 480 voltages. To wire it for 240, you would connect the outer two prongs, correct? Would this affect the 2350W power rating?

http://i.ebayimg.com/00/$(KGrHqYOKjgE0dTfB+V5BNZ(5le-fQ~~_12.JPG

ph4570
05-27-2011, 09:58 AM
I plan on offering a 6" by 5" deep model in 120v and hopefully 1500w. This would allow (filled to the brim) 58 lbs of lead. I usually leave around an inch at the top for fluxing and just some room to breathe. This would be about 46lbs of melt. I think this would be a good option for most people. For anything bigger, I think we are going to have to go 240.

Let me know your thoughts guys.

Matt

The 46# of melt would work well for me. I have a dedicated 115v circuit but getting 220v to the shed would require a new cable run. That and 40+ pounds is about all I want to do in a session.

Just a thought -- I cover the top of my Lee 20 pounder with an aluminum plate while it is heating up. That seems to speed it up a noticeable amount. Perhaps some sort of cover option would be a heat-up time aid.

Springfield
05-27-2011, 10:30 AM
"I plan on offering a 6" by 5" deep model in 120v and hopefully 1500w. This would allow (filled to the brim) 58 lbs of lead. I usually leave around an inch at the top for fluxing and just some room to breathe. This would be about 46lbs of melt. I think this would be a good option for most people. For anything bigger, I think we are going to have to go 240."
This would be perfect for me if you made it in 240, with 1800 watts even better. I already have the a Magma so I would like yours to be a step up in voltage and wattage. I wired my shop for 240 because my RCBS pot is 240, so I am good to go there.

Matt3357
05-27-2011, 11:40 AM
ph4570,

A lid would be a great idea. I'll definitely do some testing and design with that. I never really thought about a lid.

Good thinking.

Matt

Cranium
05-27-2011, 11:56 AM
With an insulated lid and insulated pot, you could also do a PID with ramp/soak and also use the pot as a heat treat oven. :)

Matt3357
05-27-2011, 01:52 PM
Close, but no cigar Cranium. Heating element would not handle the high temps. If there is interest in a small heat treating oven, I would consider doing some research and potentially offer one that would work with the same PID setup.

Matt

Cranium
05-27-2011, 02:07 PM
Heating element would not handle the high temps.

Ok...I guess I'm missing why it wouldn't work for this. Please educate me. :)

I was referring to heat treatment of bullets (or parts) at temperatures below the melting point of lead.

tonyjones
05-27-2011, 02:59 PM
I would be VERY interested in a small PID controlled heat treat oven. Are you thinking a convection type oven?

Tony

Matt3357
05-27-2011, 04:17 PM
Yeah you are right cranium. I was thinking hardening of tool steel, etc.

Tony,

Most likely. I will have to do some research and to see if I can do it cost effective comparatively to other offerings. We will see. Might do some sort of a universal lube sizer heat plate too. Heck where do I stop. Also just had an idea on how to make a hot plate. Ug, lets just get started on the pot haha.

Matt

Cranium
05-27-2011, 04:23 PM
Matt,

Just think 'Swiss Army Knife' of furnaces. ;)

A lid with a duct and low speed small fan attached might be enough to convert the furnace into an effective heat treat oven. The PID would have to be one that supports ramp and soak times though. It could be just an add-on option to the existing pot design.

Matt3357
05-27-2011, 04:34 PM
eh, I don't think I would consider that as an option for the lead pot as 99% of people would only use their lead pot for, well, casting. I will do some research into a small heat treat oven though. I can see that being feasible.

Matt

Chapped Lips
05-29-2011, 12:55 PM
Matt......another lurker sounding off.....the 6x5/120v/1500W interests me....will peek in from time to time to see how this evolves.

Congrats on the graduation and starting at your new position. Admire your motivation.

:drinks::drinks:

mpbarry1
06-06-2011, 11:04 PM
Any idea when this might be available? I promised myself this would be my first and only casting pot. :)

Cranium
06-07-2011, 09:58 AM
Matt's been silent over the past week and a half. Hopefully this means he's been busy at work building a prototype.

Reloader06
06-07-2011, 12:13 PM
I think it's more a case of being busy at his new job.

Matt

mold maker
06-07-2011, 01:23 PM
Now days, just having a new job is worth spinding all the time required. I too am following this thread with interest.

Matt3357
06-22-2011, 05:36 PM
Hey guys,

I got some good news and some bad news. Good news is that my job is going great and i am moving to a rental house in about a month with an actual garage. Now the bad news. I have not had a chance to source parts between the new job with early hours, having something going on every weekend, my brothers wedding and all that goes with being in it, helping my dad back home doing summer work around the house, and the big finale, i fell and broke my left elbow on saturday. I am scheduled for surgery on the 1st here in St. Louis. Fortunately my insurance started the day i started work and will take care of almost all of it, but it still sucks no matter how you look at it. Knowledge gained from this experience, stupid hurts.

Matt

Cranium
06-22-2011, 06:35 PM
Sorry to hear about your bad luck. But on the bright side, you'll have some downtime after your surgery and can do lots of surfing for parts if you still plan on pursuing the project.

Hope the surgery goes well.

Reloader06
06-22-2011, 09:26 PM
Matt

Really sorry to hear about the elbow and surgery.:shock: This like all non life-threatening project can wait:popcorn:. Heal up

Matt

huntnman
06-22-2011, 10:11 PM
Just stumbled across this thread.Matt I live a short drive west of you.
I'm interested in making shot, and a 40# lead pot. Could have interest in funding experimental
project, for my personal use. L.O.L. Will be watching, waiting to get in line!

Huntnman

Matt_G
06-25-2011, 10:33 AM
Matt,

Hope the surgery goes well and the arm heals up 100%. Take it easy and don't worry about this unimportant stuff.

One thought regarding heat; you could always wire a 120V - 20A plug to it that requires a 20A outlet.
20A would give you 2400W. You could use a 2200W heater (provided you can find a source) and there would still be a little overhead on the circuit.

I'm sure you know what type of plug/outlet I'm talking about, but for anyone who doesn't, here are some links:

20A Outlet (http://www.homedepot.com/Electrical-Electrical-Outlets-Plugs/Leviton/h_d1/N-5yc1vZbm4nZwc/R-100357006/h_d2/ProductDisplay?langId=-1&storeId=10051&catalogId=10053&superSkuId=202887012)
20A Plug (http://www.homedepot.com/Electrical-Electrical-Outlets-Plugs-Plugs-Connectors/h_d1/N-5yc1vZbodrZ1z11yyo/R-202039720/h_d2/ProductDisplay?langId=-1&storeId=10051&catalogId=10053)

No one would be able to plug it into a standard 15A outlet that way and you get more wattage without having to go to 240V.

Chapped Lips
06-25-2011, 11:09 AM
If it wasn't for bad luck........i wouldn't have any luck at all! :rolleyes:
Take care of the elbow.....make sure it mends correctly......you have a whole life in front of ya.

And Matt G......thanx for the added info.

Springfield
06-25-2011, 12:43 PM
That would work but I'd still rather go 220 as it allows me to run other stuff on the circuit at the same time if I have to. The cord gets just a little warm now with my 1500 watt Magma pot.

Idaho Sharpshooter
06-29-2011, 02:11 AM
You young guys heal quick...

We will pray for a good surgery, and fast healing.

Rich

mpbarry1
07-27-2011, 01:06 AM
How are you healing up Matt? Still able to run that HP calculator? :) get well soon!

midnight
08-19-2011, 09:54 AM
I have been just about computerless for the last two months but I am back home now. There has been very little activity on this thread and since I really want a group buy to result from this discussion I'll give it a shameless bump.

Bob

Cranium
08-19-2011, 03:20 PM
Very little activity? That's an understatement. ;)

It's been almost 2 months since Matt has piped in on this thread.

shovel80
08-19-2011, 03:57 PM
I would most likely be interested in a 20# Pot...It would be my first one...haven't tried casting yet, but, want to get started soon with .45 Cal. 525 grain Postells..
Terry

Dannix
08-20-2011, 01:03 AM
Just came across this thread. Subscribed.

Matt, you get healed and rested up. This GB can wait until you are ready. :)

Wayne Smith
08-23-2011, 08:59 AM
Hard to type one-handed, eh, Matt? I just came across this too. No money to put into more projects until I have one at least completed! This looks like a good deal for those who cast a lot more than I do. Heal quickly, get back to work, and then play around with this. Life comes first!

midnight
09-10-2011, 07:42 PM
It's time for another bump. I really want this pot. This way I don't have to screw up installing a PID and I get a bigger pot to boot. I hope Matt is convalescing OK. I just hope we havn't pushed him into doing something he really doesn't want to take on right now. I want to offer my encouragement and patience.

Bob

Dannix
09-10-2011, 11:05 PM
I just hope we havn't pushed him into doing something he really doesn't want to take on right now.
Indeed. Sometimes what sounds like a good idea can't turn loathsome when life throws a curve ball.

Matt, no worries if you need to put this on long term or permanent hold.

Matt3357
10-01-2011, 11:24 AM
Guys,

I feel absolutely terrible. I read the request for an update on my phone one day and decided it would be much easier to type such a message on my computer...and then I completely forgot about it since the notification was buried deep in my email. Again I apologize.

As far as my arm goes, I am pretty much back to normal. I have a bit of limited range of motion but that hasn't stopped me from kayaking and working in the garage. But, the limitation I have as far as this project goes is two fold. Extra money is pretty tight around here and is going to get tighter. I have medical bill payments from my surgery, physical therapy appointments that I have to pay for now twice a week, 3 months of reduced paychecks for the 3 weeks I was off work, and on top of that my student loans kick in in December. On top of that, my current access to the tools I need are 2 hours away at my parents house. Unfortunately it just doesn't fit into my life right at this moment. Life is nothing I can't handle, but this added on to it is a bit much right now. I still really want to do it, because I know I can make a really nice pot for you guys (and myself) and I could use the extra money but until I start getting full paychecks again and I get a welder and some other tools (Christmas fairy?) I can't really justify doing it.

I think it might be feasible in the spring of next year, but we'll have to play it by ear.

Thanks,
Matt

Roger Ronas
10-01-2011, 02:29 PM
Totally understood Matt and thanks for checking in. Everything will work out, it's just going to take time.
Good luck and never give up the dream, it will happen,

Roger

bwgdog
10-01-2011, 02:39 PM
Matt-Thank You so much for the update-You have been in my thoughts. Please pay very close attention to what your PT recomends-The only reason I am walking is through the patience of my PT.You will always have bills-don,t let it stress you out. I see you are in St Louis-If you ever get ina real slump-visit the VA hospital there-will really show you how minor our little troubles are-Whenever I have to go to the VA-Changes my outlook for the better- If/when you get to a point you need help with getting the pot thing going-speak up-A lot us us can help out in some way to get you going. Don,t be a stranger posting-we really enjoy seeing your projects come together-makes me feel younger!!! Stay Well Barry

Vinne
10-03-2011, 10:22 PM
I second that dog. Its like seeing an old friend again and not having enough time to catch up. My old job cut corners on my PT and I'm paying for it today. Ask if there is any exercises you can do at home...it can speed things along. Take care Matt!!

Reloader06
10-03-2011, 11:06 PM
^+2. Been there, done that! Twice. First time I kinda blame myself and the Doctor. 2nd time , just me. Follow up with everything. Finnish everything and if you still dont feel right, bitch LOUDLY. Your body, your the one who feels good/bad. You wouldn't take half a trigger job so dont take half a healing. With all that, hope you feel better soon.

Matt

mpbarry1
10-03-2011, 11:27 PM
Get better Matt! That is the important part! The pot can wait. :)