Maximum sizing?

[sharps50]

What is the max you should size cast boolits? I just tried to size from .458 down to .452 for my T/C Katadin barrel in .460 S&W. I used a 340 grain Lee bullet with 5744 powder... forgot the charge wt, for about 1500fps. First attempt, not so good. Groups/pattern was about 15 inches at 50 yards.:(
Any suggestions?

[runfiverun]

lube them in the first sizer.
you'll kepp the lube grooves that way.
you might also want to do an intermediate step along the way and fill the crimp groove with lube also.
if you are waterdropping them you are most likely softening the alloy as you size this much.
so you may have to harden the alloy, cast them, size them in the same day or next one. and let them sit 10-12 days to harden a bit more.

[RobS]

Did you experience any leading? What lube are you using? What is your bores groove diameter? As to sizing runfiverun has good advise. I would do it in steps as well and run my first sizing step to fill the lube grooves to help keep the lube grooves from closing in from the sizing process.

[williamwaco]

Sharps,

In the "olden days" sizing was done with a sharp shoulder in the sizing die that literally shaved off the excess metal. You could really mess up bullets with those dies - especially with multiple passes.

Modern dies are swaging dies that do not remove metal but swage down the bullet to a smaller diameter. ( Should make them slightly longer but I have not tried to detect this. I doube it it is measurable. )

You should be able to go from .458 to .452 with minimum damage to the bullet - BUT - If the bullets are hard cast as is popular these days, You might wind up breaking your sizer/lubricator if you try to do it in a single step.

Reloading presses are vastly stronger than sizer/lubricators and a hard cast .45 acp bullet can take significant force to resize only .002, (from .453 to .451) using a push through Lee die in a reloading press. You will most likely need multiple passes through successively smaller dies.

To work on accuracy, first look at Robs's questions. First be sure you are not getting any leading then try adjusting powder charge. If you haven't selected a lube yet, start with Alox or Alox / beeswax mix.

It is a good idea to be sure the lube grooves are filled before you swage them down that much.

Or - make life easier and buy a mold of smaller diameter. You will get better accuracy quicker with much less work if you start with a bullet that fits.

[Down South]

What runfiverun said. Lube in the first stage ".001"-002" then finish in the second stage.

[runfiverun]

woo hoo, i got sumthin right....
i'm usually the odd one out. :lol:

[Calamity Jake]

I've take a Lyman Lovern 8MM .326 down to .315 in 2 passes the first thru a .325 for lube and check then thru the .315. These were used in a worn out mosine.

[sharps50]

Ok guys any thoughts on my plan of action. Saeco has a .455 sizer die (first step with lube) then followed by Lee's .452 push thru die.

[bobthenailer]

AHH Thats the ticket !!!!!!

[44man]

Might work but I had trouble long ago even with lube grooves filled.
Over sizing still almost did away with the grooves. The crimp groove was a scratch!
It will depend on the boolit you start with.

[pdawg_shooter]

I size .459s down to .452s for paper patching all the time. I use a push through die in my reloading press. Not a problem. .311s down to .302s works just as well.

[44man]

I size .459s down to .452s for paper patching all the time. I use a push through die in my reloading press. Not a problem. .311s down to .302s works just as well.
But paper patching needs no lube grooves in the boolit!

[pdawg_shooter]

IMHO, yes it does. It gives the paper something to lock on to. I have had, and sold, a number of smooth sided "paper patch" molds. I now use only lube grooved bullets sized .001/.0015 over BORE diameter and patched back up.

[Char-Gar]

There is no maximum amount you can size, if you use the right equipment and technique. In the best of worlds, bullets would require no sizing, but we don't live in that world very often.

[44man]

IMHO, yes it does. It gives the paper something to lock on to. I have had, and sold, a number of smooth sided "paper patch" molds. I now use only lube grooved bullets sized .001/.0015 over BORE diameter and patched back up.
You still do not need the depth of the grooves. Do they have to be .025" deep?

[pdawg_shooter]

You still do not need the depth of the grooves. Do they have to be .025" deep?

The deeper the better. When the paper shrinks tight the groove will hold a bit more lube.

[Iowa Fox]

.oo6 is quite a push. I normally do not like to go over .002 or .003 . Even then I sometimes get lead smearing into the lube or crimp groove depending on the bullet.

On my TC barrels I shoot pretty fat bullets due to the throat or forcing cone on the newer barrels chambered in handgun cartridges.

Tell us a little more about your sizer and lube that you are using. I have never owned a 460 so I am at a little disadvantage here. To anyone shooting a 460 in a TC, what diameter are you sizing to? It could be you just need a larger diameter to shrink those groups.

[44man]

The deeper the better. When the paper shrinks tight the groove will hold a bit more lube.
I have no experience with paper patching but the BP guys use a lot and they just oil the paper.
Do you actually lube the grooves first? Or do you lube the depressions in the paper?

[bigboredad]

I have the exact same bullet I have sized it to .454 and .452 with no problem. I usually do it the same day or the next after casting it is much easier. I also lube in the first step and if I going to got to .452 I'll use the lee push thru.

I have had very satisfying results with this bullet and just last week shot that bullet with some 5744 and again the results were most satisfying. My battry in my chrono had died just before I was able to catch the speed. I also did not have a chance to shoot it past 25yds yet. I like that style so much I'm thinking of have Tom at accuratemolds.com cut me one so I can have real lube grooves and a real crimp groove. But of course these results are just my experience in my guns Which 7.5 bisley a 5.5 bisley and a 5.5 inch blackhawk and a 4.5 inch bisquero. Ymmv

[beagle]

I've run Lyman 457122HPs cast from pure lead down to .450" for use in sabots. This was in three steps and with a nose first sizer.

Size and lube first for sure./beagle

[pdawg_shooter]

I have no experience with paper patching but the BP guys use a lot and they just oil the paper.
Do you actually lube the grooves first? Or do you lube the depressions in the paper?

I lube after patching. Most anything will work. Right now I am using BAC and running through a .459 die to remove excess lube and "iron on" the patches.

[44man]

I lube after patching. Most anything will work. Right now I am using BAC and running through a .459 die to remove excess lube and "iron on" the patches.
Sounds good to me.
I still would not want to over size a bare boolit if GG's and crimp groove is too small to start with. Lee boolits are the worst, they seem to forget the crimp grooves.
Had an NEI mold once with almost no grooves. It was way under size so I sent it back. They lapped it or something but destroyed what grooves were there.