DANGEROUS condition?? Please HELP!!

[superior]

I'm afraid to fire these rounds without consulting someone of knowledge.
Today I tried to chamber some Lee 300-452-rf's in my Blackhawk 45Colt and to my surprise, they didn't want to go all the way into the cylinder! I had to really forcefully push them in the last quarter inch or so of the way! Then, I had to use equal force with ejector rod to get them out! They would (pop) out and go flying 6 feet across the carpet! They were push-through siized and gas-checked at .454 I could tell that parts of the boolits were being sized ( I guess the "out of round" portions of the boolits). They were loaded with 12.5 grains of Hs-6. Could the gaschecks be making them too tight in the cylinder? Are they safe to fire or will they blow up the gun? I can't help but think that the already high pressures will be elevated by the constriction on the case mouths. Please help me before I do something dangerous! Kind regards, Superior

[Glen]

How big are the throats in your revolver? I suspect that your bullets are oversized and the resistance you feel when chambering them is the .454" bullets getting sized down as they go into the smaller throats. When you eject the rounds are the bullets scraped or marked in any way?

[superior]

Thanks Glen, I didn't look at the boolits. I'll try it again now and check. I may have to take the cylinder out again to facilitate ejection . bb in a few.

[superior]

Ok Glen.. I just tried some more..Some went in without any difficulty. One of them wouldn't even go in more that a quarter inch. (Leads me to believe there's an alignment problem), and the ones that chambered with difficulty towards the end showed rub marks on one side of the boolit right above the crimp groove...Whaddaya think?

[geargnasher]

Glen said what I was going to. I'll add, does the brass have scratches on the outside, too, in the area where the boolit is seated? That could mean the boolits are too big for the chamber and cause the brass to bind when pushing in. I'll bet it's the boolit nose wedging in the chamber throats, though. As a general rule I try not to shoot any revolver boolits that won't pass all the way through the cylinder with light thumb pressure, but even if they do, if they're too tight in the chamber part of the cylinder I size down one more thousandth. Only had to do this once, but it's important for there to be a little wiggle room for the brass to expand so it can release the boolit when fired, otherwise pressures can spike.

Gear

[geargnasher]

Pictures help, got a camera?

Gear

[35remington]

Measure the diameter of the brass over the bullet. Compare to spec; if it is in excess you've got chambering issues.

If that's the case, don't shoot them.

[superior]

The cases arre Magtech and have ridges aproximately where the boolit base should end up ( I suppose if I were using 250 grainers but these 300's extend below these lines. Could they be contributing? The cases show abrasion in the area of where the boolits are seated. Again, some of them go right in and others are showing signs of varying difficulty in chabering. Out of about 43 rounds, I'm now separating the ones that chamber easily. I have no Idea how big the throats are.

[jrkappy]

Chances are that the chamber mouths, throats, will measure .450 + or _. Seems like a lot of Rugers are undersized for 452-454 boolits. Measure the mouths of the cylinder. Takes a pin gauge or something equally accurate. Also try to see if a boolit sized your way will pass through the mouth of the cylinder. If not, you have your answer and, probably, the cylinder mouths will have to be reamed out to .452. The weight of the boolit has no bearing on your problem, within reason.

[snuffy]

Most 45 colt blackhawks have .452 barrels on them now-a-days. That right there is most of your problem. The boolits are just plain too big for the chambers. Size them to .452 for now, then get busy, slug the chamber throats and barrel to see where you SHOULD be for boolit sizing.

[noylj]

1) The bullets (not the cases or the loaded rounds) should be a snug slip-fit in the cylinder's throats.
2) Not sure if you did this, but ark up the bullet ogive and the front 1/4" o the case with a marking pen (Magic Marker). Insert in chamber and rotate. This will clearly mark where the interference is.
3) Do the cases have a bulge at the base of the bullet that is over-sized?
4) In an "ideal" world, the variables would be about as follows: cylinder's throats would all be the same and would be, let's say, 0.454", your bullets would be 0.4535", and your barrel's groove diameter would be 0.4525" or slightly less.
5) A micrometer is your friend and will locate the problem faster than anything else.
6) You could run the rounds through a Lee FCD to size the whole batch down to chamber. This could swage the bullets smaller, but you might get more enjoyment shooting them anyway then you would get disassembling the rounds and starting over.

[HangFireW8]

I've often found MagTech brass to be a little thicker than other brands. Also more variance. They are the only US brand I know of that doesn't use Olin brass stock to make their cases.

I usually deal with MagTech brass by crimping the.mouths shut and putting it in the recycle bin.

Anyway, I think you are using .454 boolits in a .451 gun plus thick brass, too.

[bhn22]

Are your cylinder throats clean? Carbon build up can cause chambering difficulties when yor size your bullets to fit snug in the throats. You mention marks on the cases at the area of the bullet bases. Is this mark even, all the way around the case? If not, you could have seated a few bullets slightly crooked.

[Marvin S]

Cases arnt to long are they? I got some new starline 32mag that needed trimmed from the git go.

[kyswede]

[QUOTE=HangFireW8;1246736]They are the only US brand I know of that doesn't use Olin brass stock to make their cases.

The Magtech ammo I have seen was made in Brazil.
kyswede

[Cadillo]

When you said sized to .454, you diagnosed your problem. My Blackhawk had throats that were anywhere from .448 to .451. You need to ream the throats out to .4525 (Brownells Tool), and then size to .452. Even at that you may still likely have trouble depending on the bullet shape, case length and seating depth. Ruger .45's often have extremely undersized throats. Mine did with both cylinders .45 Colt & .45 ACP.

[gunslinger20]

Will sized unloaded brass fit with no restrictions? I have an idea your cylinder throats are .451, if so you could try reaming it to .452. I have 2 ruger 45 colts and thats what I had to do both of them although I dont shoot .454 lead. IMHO I dont think .002 over will hurt anything but if your cylinder is under .452 your going to have problems.

[peerlesscowboy]

@ .454" your bullets are too big. Size 'em .452"

John C. Saubak

[peerlesscowboy]

FWIW (& I don't think this is the problem here);
I think sometimes Ruger is a little slow to throw their worn out chamber reamers. I've got an old model .357 Blackhawk that I was playing with this winter, bullets sized .358" just perfect fit thru' the throats but loaded rounds with Winchester nickle brass were difficult to chamber fully, ejected unfired rounds showed scrape marks on the brass toward the mouths. Visual inspection revealed rough toolmarks toward the front of the chambers and behind the throats so I ordered a brand new $90 chamber reamer and sure enuf' I cleaned out just a wee bit of steel. Now the chamber walls are nice and smooth and the loaded rounds drop right in [smilie=w:

[Down South]

You probably need to size to .452" You need to slug the cylinder to see what the throats measure.
You could also seat a little deeper, but 1/4" with restriction is a problem.
As mentioned above, make sure the chambers are clean. If you are still having chamber problems then it needs to be addressed. I really believe .452" instead of .454" sizing may solve your problem.
Anyway, you need to know what the throats measure, all of them. Then you have a place to start. Once the chamber throats and sizing are correct, then you can concentrate on seating depth.

[superior]

Ok! I was wrong in my diagnosis. Upon further inspection, I've discovered that on 9 rejects out of 43 rounds it appears that the gas checks on those rejects were on crooked. 32 rounds chambered with no problem what so ever. I pulled the boolits from the 9 bad ones to re-melt them, but the gas checks remained in the cases. The boolit bases showed signs of deformity from the gas checks. In the future, I need to inspect the bases for burrs and such before I run them through the sizer to get checks installed. I plan to shoot the rejects as blanks and reload the cases more carefully. I really appreciate the wisdom of the members of this forum. I belong to several others and by far, I have always received the most valuable info from this one. Thanks so much for the continued support. I would serve in combat with each one of you, and that's the biggest compliment I can pay anyone.
Sincerely, Superior

[mdi]

The cartridge is a peg. The cylinder is a hole. If the peg is bigger than the hole, it won't go in. Stop guessing and measure the finished cartridge. Measure at the base, halfway up and over the seated bullet, and the ogive/nose of the bullet Compare these measurements with a S.A.A.M.I. drawing or a factory round. If it's too large in diameter over the bullet, look at bullet diameter. If it's sticking in the throat, check the bullet dia @ the case mouth.

[peerlesscowboy]

Ok! I was wrong in my diagnosis. Upon further inspection, I've discovered that on 9 rejects out of 43 rounds it appears that the gas checks on those rejects were on crooked.
If you're using a Lyman or RCBS lubrisizer that little "gas check seater" dohickey helps to insure the gas checks are on straight.

[mpmarty]

Gas checks in a 45 long colt seem to me to be a waste of time, money and effort.

[firefly1957]

It could also be over crimped cases they will cause similar problems with chambering. If all your cases are not the same length they will all have different amounts of crimp.

[gunslinger20]

Gas checks in a 45 long colt seem to me to be a waste of time, money and effort.

Depends on what loads you shoot. Ruger only loads will surpass 44 mag. with ease as far as knock down with less preassure and larger meplate = better kill power.

[Hopalong]

.454" is a bit big for the .45 Colt; I'd try sizing down to .452". Also: once when I had this same thing happen to me, it turned out I was using .453 Casull cases. No damage, but it was dang inconvenient. Look at the bullet diameters first.

[williamwaco]

Really curious timing.

I just bought a new Ruger .44 Magnum Blackhawk. Guess what. It came with a .45 colt cylinder. .44 Mag cartridges rattled around like peas in a bucket.

Just got a reply from Ruger today and they said I should measure the throat diameter for Ruger 45 Colt cylinders throats measure .454.

If your bullets are sized .454 I don't know how you managed to tet them in the cylinder at all.
I certainly would not fire them.

[Mal Paso]

Really curious timing.

I just bought a new Ruger .44 Magnum Blackhawk. Guess what. It came with a .45 colt cylinder. .44 Mag cartridges rattled around like peas in a bucket.

Just got a reply from Ruger today and they said I should measure the throat diameter for Ruger 45 Colt cylinders throats measure .454.

If your bullets are sized .454 I don't know how you managed to tet them in the cylinder at all.
I certainly would not fire them.

Did you get 1 fired case with the gun? What did that look like?:bigsmyl2:

[HangFireW8]

[QUOTE=HangFireW8;1246736]They are the only US brand I know of that doesn't use Olin brass stock to make their cases.

The Magtech ammo I have seen was made in Brazil.
kyswede

At one time I remember proudly advertising that they were Made in USA, and made their own brass. Now I see they are part of some international conglomerate including S&B.

I hope they learn some brass mfg from S&G and not the other way around.

[williamwaco]

Did you get 1 fired case with the gun? What did that look like?:bigsmyl2:


No but you can guess what the ONE case I fired looked like.
Split lengthwise from the web to the mouth and expanded the base enough to be visible. I had to remove the cylinder and knock out the fired case with my "Range Extractor".

And. You are not going to believe this part. The bullet hit the 6" bullseye at 25 yards.