Die for expanding case mouth rife caes?

[340six]

RCBS Neck expander die or Lymam "M" Die for Loading Lifle With Lead Bullets
So far in life I have only loaded Jacketed Rifle Bullets but see the die sets say.
Up till now I have not used Cast in 30-30 but was going to get a case neck expander die, do I need one with Cast Gas Checked .309 diameter?
When you use lead bullets you need to bell the case mouth in rife cases so the bullet does not get shaved. So what brand would you buy?

{Note}For the .223 I have an old 3 die set of Lyman "All American Dies" that are just like a 3 die pistol set so it has a case mouth bell in the set.
And a second set of RCBS I keep set for FMJ

[mooman76]

Lee has a universal die that works with pretty much any caliber up to 45 and maybe larger. It is not a true case expander like the m die, it just flairs the case mouth. Works good for me. I haven't done much with the GC bullets so I can't help you there.

[RobS]

Minimal you'll want a flare on the mouth of the case to eliminate the brass from shaving off parts of the lead boolit. Since you are going to be using gas checks on your boolits then the base will be protected from case swage so the Lee Universal Expander die will work. The Lyman M die does make it easier to start the boolit and which is its other advantage. I use the Lee universal for my gas checked 375 H&H boolits without any problems, however if I was planning on shooting a plain base design I would probably get a M die or make a similar expander plug for my Lee die.

[340six]

I wanted to add that I do use a separate seat and crimp dies.

[Doc Highwall]

The Lyman M-die is the best followed by the RCBS. By the way both Lyman and RCBS make cowboy dies in 30-30 with the proper expander's for cast lead bullets.

[462]

I use M dies for everything.

[mpmarty]

+1 on using the "M" die for everything.

[9.3X62AL]

Mostly Lyman "M"-dies here, with a few RCBS spuds.

[runfiverun]

i just use the expander ball from the next cal up.
8mm for my 30's, 348 for my 8mm, 358 for my 348, 375 for my 358 etc...
you just need to kiss the taper.

[HangFireW8]

Keep in mind that flare and neck expanding are two different things. A flared case will happily accept a larger diameter boolit and swage it down on seating.

I use Lyman M dies as well. I use 31 cal for my 30's and a custom expander from Buckshot for 8mm. This leaves me with enough neck tension and almost no sizing-down found on inerial pulled bullets.

I try for exactly .001" neck tension, which works very well for cast or jacketed both.

[RobS]

Keep in mind that flare and neck expanding are two different things. A flared case will happily accept a larger diameter boolit and swage it down on seating.

I use Lyman M dies as well. I use 31 cal for my 30's and a custom expander from Buckshot for 8mm. This leaves me with enough neck tension and almost no sizing-down found on inerial pulled bullets.

I try for exactly .001" neck tension, which works very well for cast or jacketed both.

I agree with you on this regarding a plain base boolit. GC'd boolits don't do this as they are protected by the strength of the check which will have the strength to expand the case neck.

[peerlesscowboy]

Either Lyman or RCBS works OK

[JonB_in_Glencoe]

i just use the expander ball from the next cal up.
8mm for my 30's, 348 for my 8mm, 358 for my 348, 375 for my 358 etc...
you just need to kiss the taper.

+1 on using the next size die...Lee FL sizer dies with their gentle
expander button makes them easily adjustable and have worked
great for me so far. I have only loaded gas checked boolits though.
Jon

[Doc Highwall]

I have made my expander's .001" smaller then the sized diameter of my cast bullets. I am making a set of expander's in .0005" steps to see how it will affect accuracy in my match rifle. At 300 yards I have shot a five shot group as small as 1.600" and quite a few just over 2" with four of the five shots being just over 1".

[jmsj]

340six,
I am in the exact same boat that you are in.
I too am starting to to try and load up some cast for the 30/30. Having only loaded jacketed in rifle rounds, I never noticed some things about my dies before. One thing is that my dies size down the neck way more than needed. After sizing and expanding the inside of the necks measure .301,way too tight for cast. I had never noticed this loading hundreds of jacketed in the past.
I finished a .310 sizer for my Lyman 45 Friday and now it looks like I have a new machining project to make the brass sizing die work. My plan is to open up the neck sizing portion of the brass sizing die and build a new expander for the die. I measured the original expander and it only measures .301
The inside of the necks of the unsized brass allow .310 boolits to slide in so a little sizing is still needed. I am going to aim for .001-.002 undersized. Does this sound right to you guys?
Thanks, jmsj

[RobS]

I am going to aim for .001-.002 undersized. Does this sound right to you guys?
Thanks, jmsj

Yep and if you are planning on a PB and softer alloy then .001 under.

[BOOM BOOM]

HI,
Another option , use your inside neck reamer , 1/16-1/8 " into neck after sizing.:Fire::Fire:

[jmsj]

RobS,
Thanks once again.
jmsj

[MK111]

Lyman M die is the best if you want top accuracy. Otherwise anything will work.

[jma1965]

Using M die for 22 Hornet and 30-40 Krag, also use a 310 die with adapter for 38 Special on the single stage press.

http://i145.photobucket.com/albums/r223/jma2006_bucket/SDC10950.jpg

[340six]

Wow what a great responses and info "fast"
Bullets will be gas checked maybe I will not need a die at all? I will try them without and if needed get the Lyman "M" Die
But hate to mess up some good bullets as the Jacketed I loaded this week end were tight with just the use of the RCBS dies.
I did follow up with a separate crimp die.

[nouseforaname1246]

i use the lee universal die for all my rifle. i do use the m die for loading .40 though.

[XWrench3]

i have the lee universal expander as well. it works very well on all calibers. if you want to just get by for one loading, you could just use a tapered punch (think mechanics hand tools) and a small hammer. if you do not flare the case, it will shave the bullet.

[michiganvet]

I also use M dies for everything.

[Char-Gar]

M dies rule!

[edward hogan]

No disrespect to Lyman M or Lee Collet dies, but...

I standardized on the Redding FL Type S dies about 5yrs ago. Mostly use them so can vary tension on neck. Have been making my own bushings for last couple years. Recently have been buying larger sizer buttons and turning them down on lathe to get result I want.

Last few days, have been working a .335 bushing with a .313 turned-down sizing button. Gives me just the right tension to hand insert a non-sized 311332 boolit and have it hold on vertical. I use a Forster comp/mic seating die.

Am sorta surprised that nobody has thought of using custom diameter sizer balls with bushing dies; least I've never seen it discussed. Really think this is The Ticket for all cartridge sizing as gives you control of all the variables. Even moreso if you use a Redding Competition shellholder set and something like Skip's die spacer set...

[Safeshot]

Lyman "M" die first choice, RCBS Cowboy Die/expander plug second choice, Custom made expander plug to suit bullet diameter, belling desired and application - if available, Lee (case belling) die last resort - if nothing else is available. Just my opinions.

[HangFireW8]

Am sorta surprised that nobody has thought of using custom diameter sizer balls with bushing dies; least I've never seen it discussed. Really think this is The Ticket for all cartridge sizing as gives you control of all the variables. Even moreso if you use a Redding Competition shellholder set and something like Skip's die spacer set...

I do that, on calibers I already have bushing dies in (308, 223, etc). It seems extravagant to buy even an "S" die for cast boolits, at least, since my cast boolit rifles are more the beater variety. I had Buckshot make me some "M" die expanders and an "S" expander ball as well.

[XWrench3]

i use the lee universal expanding die. at least on my 22 and 30 caliber rounds. it works fine for me.

[skeet1]

I also use the Lee Universal Expander for everything. Some have said that the LUE only flares the mouth and when you seat the bullet it swedges it to an undersized condition. Being a skeptic I conducted an experiment on .30-06, .30-30 and .303 British cases and the LUE. I checked the diameter of the bullets before seating then seated them and pulled them again; no difference in size. I believe that eh Lee Universal Expander is a very fine tool at a very good price. I'm also sure that the Lyman "M" die is also good but I doubt that it is any better than the Lee as they basically do the same thing, open the mouth of the case to avoid shaving lead. The Lee has one advantage, one die will work on all of your cases no matter what case it is.

Ken

[HangFireW8]

I'm also sure that the Lyman "M" die is also good but I doubt that it is any better than the Lee as they basically do the same thing, open the mouth of the case to avoid shaving lead. The Lee has one advantage, one die will work on all of your cases no matter what case it is.

Ken

Ken, there are differences, actually. Some types flare only. Some expand only. The "M" die is popular because it does both. It is important because one can avoid shaving but still get swaging, which is usually not desirable.

My only gripe with the "M" die is that dimensions are more geared towards in-spec jacketed loads. This was easily solvable in .30 caliber by using the .31 expander, but for my oversized 8mm I had to have Buckshot make me a custom "M" expander.

[Cherokee]

For cast bullet rifle loads, I use the Lyman M die. I use .310 diameter bullets in my 30/30 loads.

[35remington]

For some reason this is not well known, but in reality the M die's parallel sided portion below the step is the same diameter as the expanding button in the sizing die of neck and full length dies intended for reloading jacketed bullets.

And the M die is intended for jacketed bullets as well, so the expander below the step is not of "special" diameter for lead bullets, but rather of ordinary diameter for adequate tension with jacketed bullets.

Therefore there is no more "swaging down" of the bullet when a Lee flaring die is used as opposed to an M die, as the expanded case necks are of the same diameter assuming a sizing die with expander button was used to process cases.

Where a separate expanding die is an advantage is when the decapping pin/expanding button is removed from neck or full length dies and the case decapped another way before sizing. In this instance the M die (or other separate flaring die with an expander section) follows the case neck without distorting it and less runout results. Avoiding an expanding button that pulls the case necks off center.

Makes a cheap die set shoot like an expensive one.