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View Full Version : where do you get dacron for reduced loads ?



badbob454
04-20-2011, 01:18 AM
where do you get your dacron for reduced powder loads ? i have never used it...I do believe in powder location sensitivity , but not sure if i believe in slow powder low charge explosions , my thought is the gun guys cant reproduce it ,so?... i think it is operator error ... i have made many low charges of slow powder and i cant understand the math behind it ... my 2 c worth .. not saying it isnt real but i would like proof , not heresay but created in a lab under controlled enviroonment ... ps i would like to try some dacron but havent any idea of brand or where to get it ...

Marine Sgt 2111
04-20-2011, 01:22 AM
I got mine at Wal-Marts

mpmarty
04-20-2011, 01:39 AM
Don't use H-110 or you'll get an education.

stubshaft
04-20-2011, 01:53 AM
Stuffed animals, old pillows, Wally World or a dry goods (fabric store). I've found that the 1/2" - 5/8" flat bunting used to sew comforters works great for me. I just buy a yard and cut it up with a scissors into 1/2" squares (smaller for 22 cals).

badbob454
04-20-2011, 01:54 AM
is it pillow stuffing or in sheet form or what ? what section is it in?

badbob454
04-20-2011, 01:55 AM
Stuffed animals, old pillows, Wally World or a dry goods (fabric store). I've found that the 1/2" - 5/8" flat bunting used to sew comforters works great for me. I just buy a yard and cut it up with a scissors into 1/2" squares (smaller for 22 cals).

thanks stubshaft ill look.... so this will not leave a molten plastic residue in my barrel ?

badbob454
04-20-2011, 02:06 AM
Don't use H-110 or you'll get an education.

why is h-110 magical.? isnt slow powder slow ? it should burn slow, because it is treated to burn slow... i could understand, a fast powder detonation .. but it too , it should have a better tendency to blow up with a full powder charge .. they said the world was flatt ........ i will believe it when science can prove it . but i will be cautious , dont want to fall off the edge of the world, so to speak ... stubborn ... perhaps , but not foolish ... i dont mean to anger anyone as this is just my opinion use sound judgment and follow powder makers rules, not mine .. happy and safe shooting friends

Artful
04-20-2011, 02:36 AM
where do you get your dacron for reduced powder loads ? i have never used it...I do believe in powder location sensitivity , but not sure if i believe in slow powder low charge explosions , my thought is the gun guys cant reproduce it ,so?... i think it is operator error ... i have made many low charges of slow powder and i cant understand the math behind it ... my 2 c worth .. not saying it isnt real but i would like proof , not heresay but created in a lab under controlled enviroonment ... ps i would like to try some dacron but havent any idea of brand or where to get it ...


http://www.reloadammo.com/liteload.htm
http://guns.connect.fi/gow/arcane1.html
http://members.shaw.ca/cronhelm/DevelopSubsonic.html

and there was a more scientific exploration done some years back in Handloader they were able to reproduce semi-regularly as I recall.

stubshaft
04-20-2011, 02:55 AM
thanks stubshaft ill look.... so this will not leave a molten plastic residue in my barrel ?

I think that the belief that people have of Dacron leaving a molten residue in the barrel should be filed under old wives tales. But in answer to your question, NO it will not leave any residue in the barrel.

I just personally preferred the flat sheets and cutting squares out. It gave me more peace of mind as to the consistency of the amount of dacron that I was using. When you start working with it you'll understand...

FWIW - The more common name of Dacron is "Hollowfill" which is also used in insulating clothes.

a.squibload
04-20-2011, 03:46 AM
Badbob:
Might take a while but if you get a lot of pills, vitamins, etc. you can save the "pill bottle cotton", I think it's dacron.
Anyway that's what I have used.
Never saw any residue in the barrel.

Artful:
Thanks for the links, good info, I think I remember reading them before.


Just a few thoughts:

We used to load a .433 round ball in 44mag cases at around 200fps (extrapolated from loading chart).
I could look up the powder used, don't remember. Was only a pinch, measured of course.
Stuffed a tuft of "pill bottle cotton" in each case before seating.
(A fun round, could watch the ball flying, would not penetrate a beer can but would
flatten it and knock it 20ft.)

Use of "special" cases in 44mag and 357mag revolvers can leave a ring in the cylinder,
most likely lube buildup but makes it a little harder to clean than if you use mag cases.
Interchangeable ammo is good (just in case) but I quit doing that a long time ago.
Call me lazy.

I agree with the theory that a small pile of powder spread out in the bottom of the case (when gun is horizontal)
leaves more powder exposed to the primer flash and ignites all at once,
or too much at once anyway.
Fuel-air explosion / granary dust explosion analogy works for me.

Double-charge can be prevented (at least so far!) by only loading powder into
the case that's going into the press when seating.
I have never used a loading block to charge cases.
Dump powder in case, look in case, put case in press, seat boolit.
I guess progressive presses are immune to double-charges?

gnoahhh
04-20-2011, 08:27 AM
I'm still using kapok, for the little bit that I actually need a filler. I bought an old kapok-filled life preserver at a yard sale years ago and at the rate I'm going I'll never use it all. Unbelievable how much of that stuff is packed in there.

Gar
04-20-2011, 09:00 AM
Buy a puppy, leave it alone in the house for a few hours and you will have all the dacron you ever need [smilie=b:

crash87
04-20-2011, 09:10 AM
Heres what you want, it just plain works, and, a 1# will last you forever. crash87
http://www.dharma.net/monstore/product_info.php?cPath=104_108&products_id=1028

white eagle
04-20-2011, 09:21 AM
Buy a puppy, leave it alone in the house for a few hours and you will have all the dacron you ever need [smilie=b:
amen to that brother [smilie=s:

Bullshop
04-20-2011, 12:25 PM
An alternative and what I use is Styrofoam packing popcorn.

DJ1
04-20-2011, 12:40 PM
Local Wal-Mart in crafts or a fabric store

badbob454
04-21-2011, 01:10 AM
thanks friends ill look for it ...

geargnasher
04-21-2011, 01:35 AM
Batchelor, eh? :kidding:

Gear

Longwood
04-21-2011, 02:22 AM
thanks friends ill look for it ...
I have been using the round Poly (Dacron, polyester, polyethylene, samo samo) gap filler sold at the builder supply stores in my 45 and 45-70 cases. It is where they sell window and door seal.
I like it a lot so far because it is so simple to cut the same exact amount each time. I can make it as short as 1/4" very easily and it fits perfectly and stays put.
I am also using the poly cotton balls I get in the makeup isle at the dollar store. OK but not as simple as using the round stuff plus I believe the round stuff is less likely to compress differently in the cases.
PS
I have learned this lately here on Cast Boolits.
Thanks everyone that I got the hints from.

303Guy
04-21-2011, 03:13 AM
I did a job at a furniture and duvet manufacturer a while back - they had the stuff by the ton. I could have collected lifetime oversupply if I had wanted it. I suppose I could still get some but I don't need it. I use wheat bran now cause I like it better.

Stoats
04-21-2011, 03:43 AM
http://www.reloadammo.com/liteload.htm
http://guns.connect.fi/gow/arcane1.html
http://members.shaw.ca/cronhelm/DevelopSubsonic.html

and there was a more scientific exploration done some years back in Handloader they were able to reproduce semi-regularly as I recall.

anecdotally, I've heard that it's quite common in Germany for revolvers to self-destruct with extremely light 38 special loads.

The proposed mechanism is that the primer on its own is powerful enough to get the bullet into the forcing cone. However, the whisper of powder in the bottom of the case is small enough not to be immediately ignited by the primer, and it ignites a fraction of a sec after the bullet has lodged in the forcing cone, putting the pressure through the roof.

This seems plausible, and doesn't require any powder-voodoo.

And also matches with the advice to use rifle primers when loading tiny charges of fast pistol powder in rifle cases: the rifle primer is powerful enough to act like a leaf blower, agitating the powder and causing it all to ignite instantly.

nanuk
04-21-2011, 05:29 AM
I went to a fabric store, and they have both batting for quilting, and loose fill for pillows.

Pillow stuffing is what I bought for my ML, but I may get some batting as it would be more convenient for my ML needs.

as for Cartridges, I would be a bit leary using batting cut into squares as it may be easier to push it too deep into the case. would that matter seeing how it is very porous? I dunno, just something I think about.

303Guy
04-21-2011, 05:36 AM
The proposed mechanism is that the primer on its own is powerful enough to get the bullet into the forcing cone. However, the whisper of powder in the bottom of the case is small enough not to be immediately ignited by the primer, and it ignites a fraction of a sec after the bullet has lodged in the forcing cone, putting the pressure through the roof.I'm trying to figure this one. A primer powerful enough to lodge the boolit in the forcing cone but not powerful enough to ignight a whisper of powder? Mmmm ....

My experience is this, small charge, bullet jams in the throat, powder burns but bullet stays put. After a reasonable time lapse breach is opened and remainder of pressure escapes. Lodged bullet is then dislodged with ramrod from muzzle end and resolution is made to not let bullet cant over next time. Pressure signs on primer? As though there was no powder to start with. Oh yes, there was a slight hiss initially as some pressure escaped. Another incident - nothing happens on firing gun so bolt is opened and spent cartridge gets ejected so assumption is made that the action was not cycled after last shot and fresh round is chambered, only now the bolt won't close. Cause? Bullet pushed into throat by primer and next round won't chamber because powder charge won't let bullet move back into case. That one would have kaboomed if the powder volume had been low enough.

Do I believe the delayed ignition theory with 'whisper' pistol powder charges? Probably not! Not even whisper slow burning rifle powder charges. Powder bridging? Three or four times in a row is quite possible in which case the possibility of a lodged boolit in the forcing cone in front of a tripple or quadruple charge becomes likely. The thing is, it takes energy to blow up a gun and a whisper charge doesn't seem to meet the criteria for high energy - especially considering that the boolit has alledgedly moved farward creating a large volume for the gases to expand into.

Just thinking out loud.

nanuk
04-21-2011, 05:42 AM
in the NRA handloading book I have, there is an article about basement loads.

using less than 1gr of bullseye. the way to figure it out, is to download until you stick boolits in the bore. There is NO warning of SEE or high pressures associated with them.

shooterg
04-21-2011, 01:12 PM
Got a friend that uses the lint out of the dryer trap in his low end boolit loads. Must work, saw him today, still breathing.

bumpo628
04-21-2011, 01:44 PM
Got a friend that uses the lint out of the dryer trap in his low end boolit loads. Must work, saw him today, still breathing.

That's not a bad idea...

a.squibload
04-22-2011, 01:12 AM
Yeah, but that would stink.
Our dryer lint is mostly cat hair with a tiny percentage of clothing fiber.

badbob454
04-22-2011, 10:28 AM
Batchelor, eh? :kidding:

Gear

no just have a modern wife ...doesn't sew or mend much , i think i do more

stubshaft
04-22-2011, 04:10 PM
no just have a modern wife ...doesn't sew or mend much , i think i do more than her :)

I HAD one of those.:groner:

rbertalotto
04-23-2011, 07:19 PM
I'm trying to figure this one. A primer powerful enough to lodge the boolit in the forcing cone but not powerful enough to ignight a whisper of powder?

Yes, it will light off the powder, but after the bullet has moved into the forcing cone, creating an obstruction.........At least this is how the theory is explained.......

35remington
04-23-2011, 07:39 PM
rbert, that's a bad explanation for light charges.

Whoever advanced that one didn't think it through. With W296, maybe, but not with the pistol/shotgun powders. The person theorizing tried to extrapolate the effect to something else and that won't do, logically or otherwise.

badbob454
04-23-2011, 10:12 PM
I'm trying to figure this one. A primer powerful enough to lodge the boolit in the forcing cone but not powerful enough to ignight a whisper of powder? Mmmm ....

My experience is this, small charge, bullet jams in the throat, powder burns but bullet stays put. After a reasonable time lapse breach is opened and remainder of pressure escapes. Lodged bullet is then dislodged with ramrod from muzzle end and resolution is made to not let bullet cant over next time. Pressure signs on primer? As though there was no powder to start with. Oh yes, there was a slight hiss initially as some pressure escaped. Another incident - nothing happens on firing gun so bolt is opened and spent cartridge gets ejected so assumption is made that the action was not cycled after last shot and fresh round is chambered, only now the bolt won't close. Cause? Bullet pushed into throat by primer and next round won't chamber because powder charge won't let bullet move back into case. That one would have kaboomed if the powder volume had been low enough.

Do I believe the delayed ignition theory with 'whisper' pistol powder charges? Probably not! Not even whisper slow burning rifle powder charges. Powder bridging? Three or four times in a row is quite possible in which case the possibility of a lodged boolit in the forcing cone in front of a tripple or quadruple charge becomes likely. The thing is, it takes energy to blow up a gun and a whisper charge doesn't seem to meet the criteria for high energy - especially considering that the boolit has alledgedly moved farward creating a large volume for the gases to expand into.

Just thinking out loud.

this is what i think also... if a low charge will blow up your gun , a high charge should also . as the low charge wouldn't have sufficient power ..:drinks:

pls1911
04-24-2011, 10:33 AM
ask your wife to pick out the oldest pillow in the house... no not grand ma's feather pillow.
Then replace it with one of HER choice with a silk pillow case...
you win...

badbob454
04-24-2011, 11:36 AM
well just in case, ill use Dacron to be safe.. thanks for all the comments , and happy, and safe shooting ...:cbpour:

Bullshop
04-24-2011, 11:53 AM
Just remember its not what you use that makes it safe its how you use it.