Why do they

[Sprue]

RCBS, only make a 2 cav mold. I used to not mind it but I just cast about 450 RCBS 358-150 SWC boolits? If only they made a 4 or 6 cav. I'm nearly burnout now with a 2 cav mold. Life is too short.


Good Day

[theperfessor]

Despite the good quality of their molds, I no longer buy RCBS molds for pistol bullets because they only make two holers. Since I shoot very few rifle bullets I would buy a rifle bullet mold from them. I'm with you, life is too short.

[Hardcast416taylor]

Welcome to the head scratching class Sprue. I`ve never heard a decent answer to that question myself. I would be interested in some of their mold offerings if they were offered in 4 cavity. Guess RCBS isn`t interested in what we the buyers want.Robert

[shooter93]

I would imagine it's a matter of sales. Casting is a small segment of shooting so my guess would be they don't feel the additional cost would be justified with small sales.

[justingrosche]

It seems funny, that The Big Three commercial companies, Lyman, RCBS, and Lee don't actively solicit this site. With the thousands and thousands in sales generated on this site, why are they not active in conversations , promoting themselves, endorsing their products? I guess they get enough from casual sales that they dont have to answer the tough questions on why their products repeatedly fail. Thank goodness for the likes of NOE, Mihec, Mountain Molds, LBT, BA Bore, ect. and the list keeps growing.

[deltaenterprizes]

One solution is to buy 2 sets of blocks and rotate them or take a set of Lyman nutcracker type handles and drill extra holes to mount 2 sets of blocks and make a 4 hole sprue plate. An old timer told me that was how he made 10 cavity round ball molds.

[wallenba]

I have a few 4 cavity Lyman molds. They are great boolit makers, but they get heavy fast. With a bad shoulder and arthritis, they wear me out after only dropping a couple hundred. I spend more time making boolits from a two holer, but I can get in a cruise mode and go a long time.

[williamwaco]

In my opinion, whether it is Lyman or RCBS. You can make more good bullets in less time with two identical two cavity molds by alternating them than by using a single four cavity mold. The four cavity molds are heavy and will tire you out faster. They are slower because they take longer to cool and requires more wait time.

That said, I am completely infatuated with the Lee six cavity molds. They drop good bullets like rain drops with no need to wait for them to cool. The bad news is there is very limited selection.

Their 357-158 tumble lube bullet.


Lee 6-Cavity Bullet Mold

http://www.midwayusa.com/viewProduct/default.aspx?productNumber=704691


Casts an excellent bullet that is extremely accurate and you can cast 1000 of them in an afternoon.

PS. My love of Lee molds does not extend to the two cavity variety.

[MT Gianni]

If you care to look at the top line Lee is a sponser. I disagree about the Gent with the beef with Redding being hard to please. Casting is a very small part of the big companies products. I think RCBS diesn't want to bother with whatever retooling it would take for a 4 cavity even if it is minimal.

[btroj]

Holy cow, I look at how big the blocks are for a 2 cav RCBS mould, what would they use for a 4 holer?
It is economics. If RCBS though it was financially beneficial to make a 4 cav they would.obviously they don't. It is business, nothing more, nothing less.

[geargnasher]

If you care to look at the top line Lee is a sponser. I disagree about the Gent with the beef with Redding being hard to please. Casting is a very small part of the big companies products. I think RCBS diesn't want to bother with whatever retooling it would take for a 4 cavity even if it is minimal.

I was going to mention that, but you beat me to it! This has been discussed before, and IIRC the general consensus was that it isn't the production or advertising cost that would be an issue, it would be the expense of dedicating an employee or several from the PR/Advertising segment of the company to actively register on forums, solicit, comment, and generally field questions/comments/complaints in a positive manner and present their companies products as solutions that would cost more than the revenue generated from the internet caster communities. Plus they'd need to frequent about a dozen sites.

Gear

[Bret4207]

In my opinion, whether it is Lyman or RCBS. You can make more good bullets in less time with two identical two cavity molds by alternating them than by using a single four cavity mold. The four cavity molds are heavy and will tire you out faster. They are slower because they take longer to cool and requires more wait time.

That said, I am completely infatuated with the Lee six cavity molds. They drop good bullets like rain drops with no need to wait for them to cool. The bad news is there is very limited selection.

Their 357-158 tumble lube bullet.


Lee 6-Cavity Bullet Mold

http://www.midwayusa.com/viewProduct/default.aspx?productNumber=704691


Casts an excellent bullet that is extremely accurate and you can cast 1000 of them in an afternoon.

PS. My love of Lee molds does not extend to the two cavity variety.

My experience with Lyman 4 bangers and H+G 10 cav's don't line up with your assertion at all. The 10 cav especially is a boolit making machine! Yes, it requires some major engineering to use (a hunk of 2x4 about 6" long to rest it on while pouring) but other than that I can turn out 1K of near perfect boolits in well under an hour.

[justingrosche]

One solution is to buy 2 sets of blocks and rotate them or take a set of Lyman nutcracker type handles and drill extra holes to mount 2 sets of blocks and make a 4 hole sprue plate. An old timer told me that was how he made 10 cavity round ball molds.
Most or the time I'd be lucky to have two cavities on one mold close in diameter and weight, let alone two molds stacked like that.

[casterofboolits]

Why does RCBS only make two cavity moulds? That's what they are tooled to manufacture since they took over Lachmiler, and may not think that investing in the tooling to manufacture four cavity moulds would be profitable. Lyman and Saeco pretty much control the four cavity commercial market at this time. How many four cavity moulds would RCBS have to sell to recoup $500,000.00 of machine, tooling and set up costs?

A friend who owns a machining company re cut five Lyman four cavity moulds for me on his CNC machining center. He did it for free and did the work himself, other wise I would not have been able to afford it.

I have over a hundred four cavity moulds. Lyman. Saeco and H&G. I prefer the Lyman four cavity mould block size as they are much easier to maintain mould heat with. I had a boolit business for twenty three years and sold several million cast boolits. I still have the Lyman four cavity moulds I started with 30 years ago and they still cast perfect boolits. My eight cavity H&G's are pretty worn tho, but they cast a truck load of boolits over the years.

When I had the business, I learned by experimentation how to control alloy,pot temp, mould temp, fill speed and sprue size for best boolits and production.

[beagle]

I agree, it's a money thing. Boys, face it, what we spend on moulds is a drop in the bucket compared to some of the industries out there and $60 for a DC mould after expenses don't leave much room for profit compared to some of the industries.

You've seen the belt tightening by Lyman over the years and a decrease in the quantity and quality of their products. Granted, RCBS is bigger but none of 'em are getting rich when most of us buy one mould of a specific design in out lifetimes and complain about the price we pay for it.

The money just ain't there. Face it, we're cheap.

Now, jack the price up to $200 on a 4 cav like people are paying for 4 cav H & Gs and see 'em weigh in./beagle

[telebasher]

Somebody jog my memory, IIRC reading that RCBS moulds are actually manufactured in India for some time now. Maybe I'm dreamin'.... anybody ?

[onondaga]

Two has always been enough for me:

http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c338/rhymeswithwhat/PerfectCups.jpg

Gary

[recycledelectrons]

One solution is to buy 2 sets of blocks and rotate them or take a set of Lyman nutcracker type handles and drill extra holes to mount 2 sets of blocks and make a 4 hole sprue plate. An old timer told me that was how he made 10 cavity round ball molds.

I can not visualize this. Do you have a pic?

Andy

[midnight]

Even 2 cavity molds do not drop bullets of the same weight. It would be easier if I knew how to post pics but I don't so a verbal description of what I do will have to suffice. I have a large flat piece of wood. On one edge I write numbers 0 - 9 repeated several times. Each bullet weighed is placed above its number in a line. After you have weighed 2 or 300 from a 2 cavity mold you will see a bell shaped curve of weight distribution, or rather you will see two bell shaped curves corresponding to the two cavities. The difference is usually only a grain or two but it is always there. If my 975gr BMG mold was a 2 holer, that would really show the difference.

Bob

[ChuckS1]

Two has always been enough for me:

http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c338/rhymeswithwhat/PerfectCups.jpg

Gary

That's funny...:-D

[onondaga]

Double Bell curve from sorting by .1 grain from a 2 cavity mold:

http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c338/rhymeswithwhat/BellCurve.jpg

Not a curve at all, but this is how they weighed out for me the other day. I use a slip of paper marked in .1 grain increments, The slip is across the bottom of the picture but not readable in the photo. I consider the 3 biggest bunches and those next to them match grade bullets. They are +- .5 grain matched.

Gary

[justingrosche]

Two has always been enough for me:

http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c338/rhymeswithwhat/PerfectCups.jpg (http://http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c338/rhymeswithwhat/PerfectCups.jpg)

Gary
Gary you are a bad boy! Shadow Porn! LOL

[dodgyrog]

I read an article (in Handloader perhaps) ages ago that tried the accuracy from a multi cavity mould and found the smallest groups came from the unsorted boolits! Go figure.

[Bret4207]

Why does RCBS only make two cavity moulds? That's what they are tooled to manufacture since they took over Lachmiler, and may not think that investing in the tooling to manufacture four cavity moulds would be profitable. Lyman and Saeco pretty much control the four cavity commercial market at this time. How many four cavity moulds would RCBS have to sell to recoup $500,000.00 of machine, tooling and set up costs?



Wow! Do you really think it would be that much? I was under the impression RCBS cherry cut their moulds, so aren't we just talking maybe a vice change? I don't think they make thousands of these moulds a day. I figure it's more like they run off 50 or 75 when demand hits and the warehouse is low. I mean, it's not like RCBS sells more than maybe a thousand, 1500 moulds a year total is it?

[AnthonyB]

I have no idea of the set up costs, but RCBS is my preferred mould manufacturer of the major names. Seems like NOE and MiHec are getting more of my mould dollars lately, however.
Tony

[1Shirt]

50-60 years ago, it was common for casters going for extreme accuracy (so to speak) with rifles to do with a single cav mold. Often it was nicked with a file near the nose for alignment in the rifle when shooting, and the little tit producef by the nick was taken off with thumbnail or small knife. Have done it, don't do it any more, as it is time consuming, and saw no increase in accuracy potential over double cavs. Don't know if anybody today is still of that mind set. Know for sure I am not. That said, there were some great groups shot back them by the men that professed that accuracy was best achieved in that method. There has been an awful lot of tech advancement in metals, tolerances, etc. in that time frame. I used to be satisfied with 2 cav. molds for handgun, but am now buying 6 cav. Lees, and 6 Cav. RD's for 30-30's, and 308. Alum molds have made a big difference for me in fatigue in casting. The big old heavy 4 and more cavs still produce great blts, but they are slower much more fatigueing than the alum of today.
1Shirt!:coffeecom

[cbrick]

If you recall, Lyman briefly (very briefly) sponsored this site. There was a thread going on at the time attacking what the poster said was very poor customer service from Redding, IIRC. Lyman took one look at that thread, and cut and run!

It turned out that the guy who posted the thread attacking Redding was one of those impossible-to-please customers who thought he knew more about bullet mold and reloading equipment manufacturing than Redding did. They tried to make him happy more than once as I recall, but he wouldn't bite. He apparently wanted a reason to slam somebody on the Internet, and he found that with Redding for whatever reason.

Before you start flapping your gums for I suppose to make yourself feel important you should have some sort of a clue as to what your spreading pure BS about.

There is ZERO truth in your post. When you spread cr*p like that of which you have ZERO first hand knowledge you only make yourself look like a fool.

I'll consider a retraction and an apology if your man enough to give one.

Find someone else to slander to make yourself feel important!

Rick

EDIT: Interesting, rather than be man enough to admit he wrongly slandered someone nicholst55 deleted his posts. With no apology.

[bhn22]

One solution is to buy 2 sets of blocks and rotate them or take a set of Lyman nutcracker type handles and drill extra holes to mount 2 sets of blocks and make a 4 hole sprue plate. An old timer told me that was how he made 10 cavity round ball molds.

Just cast with two identical moulds. It may be even faster than using a single 4 cavity style.

Or...

Buy a custom 4 cavity mould from BRP, LBT, or another custom maker

[mroliver77]

I just cannot see two molds being faster than one with the same amount of cavities. Most of my molds require very little cooling time IF the alloy is not way over the melting point. I do though use the Bruce B speed casting method and keep a pan with wet rag next to sprue collection container. I can then keep the mold in my left hand at all times while casting. Once I find a groove I can fly with any size mold. Switching(which I have done) molds takes so much extra movement.
Jay

[kbstenberg]

Gary I love your picture.
Greybeard does have a PR person from H&R on there website answering question about there Handi Rifle. Whether it is personal time or not. I don't know.
Kevin

[Bradley]

I just cannot see two molds being faster than one with the same amount of cavities.

I suggest that you read the article in the 2010 Gun Digest entitled "The Encyclopedia Of Bullet Casting."

[Bradley]

Years ago I had a friend who worked at RCBS. He said that they considered making a mould larger than a double. They looked at producing a six cavity block. But sales of their moulds didn't generate much income and the set up costs were going to be steep so they didn't do it. Considering how little they make from their mould blocks I'm surprised that they still bother.

[Bret4207]

I just cannot see two molds being faster than one with the same amount of cavities. Most of my molds require very little cooling time IF the alloy is not way over the melting point. I do though use the Bruce B speed casting method and keep a pan with wet rag next to sprue collection container. I can then keep the mold in my left hand at all times while casting. Once I find a groove I can fly with any size mold. Switching(which I have done) molds takes so much extra movement.
Jay

I'm in the same boat. I've tried casting with 2 or 3 moulds. It seems slower to ME . Now I've known a lot of guys that use the method and are happy, but for me switching between moulds takes more time than just dumping and filling. I think it's one of those "to each their own" things. I do know that on a good day when every things running right there's simply no time to pick up another mould. When things are right the sprue is cooling and flashes over while I'm picking up the mallet and kapow! out pops another boolit, pick up the ladle or find the BP nozzle and repeat.


Bradley- what's in the article and who authored it? Haven't got that GD yet.

[cbrick]

I'll also state that life is too short to argue about **** like this.

Perhaps you would feel differently if it were you being slandered.

Writing to Redding is hardly first hand knowledge. Do you think maybe they lied to cover their own hieny just like they did in the email they sent out slandering me?

Apology not accepted, way to little, you made blatant false statements about me personally. When you have no idea what your talking about it's best to keep your mouth shut lest everyone know your a fool.

This is the wrong thread for this but it is the thread I was slandered in. My apologies to those trying to discuss the topic of the thread.

Rick

EDIT: Interesting, rather than be man enough to admit he wrongly slandered someone nicholst55 deleted his posts. With no apology.

[HeavyMetal]

I like RCBS's 38 150 mold design. So much so that I added a Saeco 3 cavity mold that is so darn close the boolits "almost" fit in the RCBS mold!

I work these two in tandem and have been able to produce enough boolits to keep family happy at get togethers.

Recently had the chance to add a Lyman for 4 cavity 348477 to my stash of molds. Very similar to the RCBS / Saeco molds that I hope it will shoot as accurately as I may retire the RCBS.

As for a 4 or 6 banger? My thought is we start a GB with Miha for a 6 cavity mold send him samples of the RCBS boolit to copy.

I'd like either steel or brass with a spure plate set up like the old H&G's with a trough in it. Cut to cast .359 / .360 with a modified Kieth lube groove. This would be the ultimate all around use boolit design / production mold!

Trust me I've used two 6 cavity Lee's to cast for both 9mm and 45 auto and you can't believe how fast a pile of boolits builds up!

I realize this would need to go to another thread but hey what do you guys think?

[Bradley]

Bradley- what's in the article and who authored it? Haven't got that GD yet.

Don't remember the author but the guy had casting results from hundreds and hundreds of bullet moulds. Really extensive research. And he addressed, among many other things, how many bullets you could cast with two and three identical moulds used simultaneously. WELL worth reading! Never seen anything like it.

[Bradley]

For whatever it is worth, I've done business with RCBS, Redding and Lyman for decades. I've never had any trouble with any of their equipment. On the very rare occasion when I called them about a problem it was always taken care of very very nicely. I can not imagine that they would treat anyone badly.

[mroliver77]

Bradley,
Thanks for the lead to the article. I don,t buy GD but could you give a synopsis of its content?

I have nothing against anybodies method of casting. If it works for you, great.

I have used two moulds many times. I came to the conclusion that there was too much wasted motion. My current setup has the least amount of moves possible. I keep the mould in my left hand with the pot @ 10:00, the sprue pan @ 12:00 and the bucket (if being used) @ 11:00 in front of pot and pan. If no bucket towel is @ 1:00. The knocker stays in my right hand at all times. Oh, and I keep a shallow pan filled with a scrap towel that is saturated with water. This sets just to the front of sprue container. I have a hotplate behind the sprue container. So I take mold in left hand, knocker in right. I fill the mould, move to wet towel (if needed) and quickly touch the bottom then give a quick kind of roll with the wrist to stop with the sprue plate on the towel. I lift over the container and cut sprue, then either on to the right to the towel or to the front to the bucket. Cycle is then continued . This all is a very smooth process and takes much longer to explain than to accomplish. Using sprue plate lube I can cut sooner so most moulds do not need the wet towel or maybe just a touch to the bottom. The process is a circular motion and is fast. I know some are leery of touching their mold to a wet cloth in the belief that the mould will warp. I do this with many of my moulds and none are warped excepting the one that was delivered this way.

The Miha brass moulds cool so quickly that I am the limiting factor. Any lost time switching moulds would be detrimental in my opinion.

Like said "To each his own." Hopefully my posts will help somebody to cast better boolits. If not it is good keyboard practice.
Jay

[Bradley]

Bradley,
Thanks for the lead to the article. I don,t buy GD but could you give a synopsis of its content?Jay

Alas I'm just not that good a writer. I borrowed someone's copy a while back and read that article, among others. But that was the article that stuck in my mind.

[cbrick]

Every once in awhile I'll go at it with two different molds, usually two different bullets. Not often though, to me it's like trying to be a one armed paper hanger trying to see how fast I can go and how long I can keep it up. I also am not very interested in the speed, I enjoy casting but not when it's beating me up. I can cast to see how many I can do in a given time frame or I can enjoy myself and have half as many that I am proud to say that I cast.

The only time I ever tried casting two molds of the same bullet was with the RCBS 35 200 and it was a failure. The bullets from the two molds cast at something like 7 gr difference and I was using these in long range revolver competition. In RCBS's defense, these two molds were purchased several years apart, no chance they could have come from the same production run much less the same cherry.

All is not lost though, I just got the RCBS 35 200 clone from NOE in a five cav. aluminum. Life is good.

Rick

[Suo Gan]

The 3 cavity Lachmiller was the same size block as the current RCBS one, the 4 cavity larger. I wish they would bring back the 3 cavity. Like Bret said, it would not take that much...wouldn't they have it still have the old stuff from Penguin anyway? They could go to an auction and buy a Berkley Mill, and might have 2 or 3 grand in the whole thing tops. You can train a high school kid to run a simple old mill in a short time. I think they would sell enough 3 and 4 cavity molds to justify it.

Everything does not have to be whiz bang, top of the line, terrific, old non computer run machines still work as well as they always did. How about give a kid a shot at working instead of some computer. It would be a FANTASTIC advertising gimmick that would translate to their other sales too.

How about have a full time guy make these molds. These are Ricks molds, custom made by our full time mold maker Rick. He hand bevels all the edges of the mold. He cuts and hardens all the cherries one at a time to perfection. They would make a lot of money if they had a picture of Rick next to the mill holding one of his custom RCBS molds in advertisements. If they were good, demand would be so great they could not keep up with production.

Anyway someone pinch me, I am dreaming for sure. Still living in the last century when manufacturers would go the extra mile for their customers.

RCBS if you are reading this, please return to stamping your molds. The laser etching does not look good. Also, why not bevel the sharp corners of the mold block, it appears unfinished. A good product that could be made better.

[Cowboy T]

That said, I am completely infatuated with the Lee six cavity molds. They drop good bullets like rain drops with no need to wait for them to cool. The bad news is there is very limited selection.


I've got to agree with this, from personal experience. While boolit selection is indeed somewhat limited, Lee 6-bangers are just plain terrific, and nearly all of mine are of this type.

Here's what can be done with them.

First, the 358-105-SWC's. This is a 1-gallon ice cream pail that's full of boolits. I estimate there are about 5,000 in there. These get used in my "powder-puff" .38 Special load.

http://t2.pixhost.org/thumbs/2167/6319793_358-105-swc-bucketful.jpg (http://www.pixhost.org/show/2167/6319793_358-105-swc-bucketful.jpg) http://t2.pixhost.org/thumbs/2167/6319798_leemould-358-105-swc-outdoors.jpg (http://www.pixhost.org/show/2167/6319798_leemould-358-105-swc-outdoors.jpg)

Next, the 430-200-RF's. These will get used in my newly-developed .44 Special load. There are about 1,500 in this Folgers coffee container.

http://t2.pixhost.org/thumbs/2167/6319794_430-200-rf-outdoors.jpg (http://www.pixhost.org/show/2167/6319794_430-200-rf-outdoors.jpg) http://t2.pixhost.org/thumbs/2167/6319799_leemould-430-200-rf.jpg (http://www.pixhost.org/show/2167/6319799_leemould-430-200-rf.jpg)

And the TL430-240-SWC's. These will get used in my newly-developed .44 Magnum load. There are about 1,200 boolits in this container.

http://t2.pixhost.org/thumbs/2167/6319795_tl430-240-swc.jpg (http://www.pixhost.org/show/2167/6319795_tl430-240-swc.jpg) http://t2.pixhost.org/thumbs/2167/6319800_leemould-tl430-240-swc.jpg (http://www.pixhost.org/show/2167/6319800_leemould-tl430-240-swc.jpg)

And here's the whole lot of 'em! Side view and top view.

http://t2.pixhost.org/thumbs/2167/6319796_lotsaboolits-threetypes.jpg (http://www.pixhost.org/show/2167/6319796_lotsaboolits-threetypes.jpg) http://t2.pixhost.org/thumbs/2167/6319797_lotsaboolits-topview.jpg (http://www.pixhost.org/show/2167/6319797_lotsaboolits-topview.jpg)

Two of the Folgers cans are of the 200gr RNFP .44's, and the other two are for the TL-style 240-grainer SWC's. So, we have 5,000 + (2 * 1,500) + (2 * 1,200) = approximately 10,400 boolits. Since I normally shoot close to 1,000 rounds/month, that oughta keep both my cameralady and I stocked for most of the year, since I'm now also shooting a lot of .22LR. All of this was cast over about 4 weekends this winter.

That is why I like 6-cavity moulds. And yes, I would love for Lee to make a few in the traditional Keith types. :mrgreen: :lovebooli

[cbrick]

That is why I like 6-cavity moulds. And yes, I would love for Lee to make a few in the traditional Keith types. :mrgreen: :lovebooli

Seems you like Folgers also! [smilie=1:

Rick