Glad I am here typing this...story

[selmerfan]

I thank God that I am able to sit here and type this story. I had the most disconcerting and confidence shaking experience of my life this morning. Allow me to share. About a month ago I got a new Belding and Mull powder measure. I also had some loads I wanted to try in my .30-06 with some 311299 boolits I had traded for. So I did some messing around with the measure to familiarize myself with it and figure out how to set it up, using a good powder scale. Previously I have been using (and still will for some things) a Lyman #55 measure that I love. This story isn't about the measure though, it's about a reloading error.

I wanted to try 13 gr. of Unique behind the 311299 and also some 2400, starting at 16 gr. working up to 20 gr., well within parameters for this boolit, powder, and cartridge. I loaded them up and they have been sitting on my bench until this morning - Lent is a busy time for pastors and we just started Holy Week, today is my day of sabbath rest. I should have rested.
I started with the 13 gr. Unique, nice MOA cluster at 100 yds, I'm very pleased. Similar results with the 16 gr. of 2400, no surprise there. I kept working up in 1 gr. increments, nothing spectacular, but all of them would be good hunting loads. Then I got to the 20 gr. of 2400 batch of loads. The first 4 (rows of 5 in the block) went fine, nice group coming together, and the last one was a stark reminder that we can all screw up, and sometimes mistakes are more forgiving than others.

I squeezed the trigger on the last round of the first row of the 20 gr. batch (10 rounds loaded) and all hell broke loose, quite literally.
I've loaded and shot 10 of thousands of my own shotgun, rifle, and handgun reloads over the last two decades with nary a hiccup, not one squib round, some misfires due to primer failure, but with great success and confidence. Today that confidence was shaken.
I remember seeing a flash of light and a great blast (hearing protection in place, I had foolishly removed my eye protection and forgot to put it back on). I recovered after a few moments. All of my fingers were attached. I could see from both eyes. My nose had some blood on it, and some stinging sensations were present in my face. My M70 Classic FWT in .30/06 SS/Walnut was in pieces. The barrel was 6 feet in front of my bench, the front receiver ring split in two and the stock shattered. I found the front 2/3 of the Leupold scope 30 feet behind me.
The only thing I can figure out is that I double charged the case with 40 gr. of 2400 instead of 20 gr. of 2400. I must have not moved my funnel to the next case, and Rocky Raab's continual advice of cases waiting to be charged in one block and charged cases in another is ringing soundly through my head. I pulled the boolits on the remaining rounds, 20 gr. of 2400 on the nose. Definite double charge, unless you pose other theories, but I'm sure it was a double charge.

I'm ashamed to even share this story because I screwed up. I don't know what caused me to not move the powder funnel, but I must not have, and I was using a powder and charge that presented plenty of room for a double charge. I thank God that my face wasn't removed and that my bodily damage is very superficial - it could have been much worse because I forgot to put my shooting glasses back on, but my eyes are fine. I was shooting alone at a gravel pit in the country, so there were no others in danger and at the same time if it would have been a worst-case scenario I wouldn't have been found for a very long time. PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE EXERCISE ALL MAXIMUM CAUTION WHEN RELOADING!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I pride myself on my diligence and care at the reloading bench, but one mistake has cost me a fine firearm, scope, and could have been much, much, much worse. I share this story as a reminder that our hobby can be dangerous if we screw it up, and I screwed up. Pictures will come as soon as I get a digital camera in working order - I need batteries for it!

[BorderBrewer]

Selmerfan,
So glad that you are ok and lived to write (and warn) about it. If your story doesn't peak the caution of others, I don't know what will.
Regards,
BorderBrewer

[fishhawk]

After all my cases are primed and ready for powder once i pick one up it does not go back into the block or container untill there's a boolit placed in it! Heard of to many double charged cases using loading blocks. steve k

[plainsman456]

When loading small amounts of powder in cases I seat the boolit when the powder is put in the case.
I am glad that you are ok,the equipment can be replaced you can not.
Sometimes these lessons serve us better than reading a lot of books.This mistake you will never make again I bet.
Once again Glad you are OK.

[462]

Good news that you are okay.

Don't feel ashamed about posting this, because it's a reminder to all of us, especially to the new casters and reloaders, that we need to be always vigilant of our reloading procedures.

[exile]

Glad to hear you are o.k. On the one hand this is a cautionary tale about the dangers of reloading (I too seat a boolit after charging each case, but I could still screw up). On the other hand it is a great story about the Lord's providential protection in your life. Keep reloading, and "Hey, let's be careful out there!"

exile

[smoked turkey]

Thank-you for having the courage to share about this double charge situation. It sounds as though your guardian angel was on duty when you pulled the trigger on the big one. Thank the Lord that he protected you. This serves as a reminder to all of us to check and recheck. I will be more careful after reading your post.

[patsher]

VERY glad to hear you're okay, and believe me, I've taken your message to heart!

Fishawk and plainsman: thanks posting the solution to the problem. This beginner at rifle- cartridge-loading is paying attention!

[lbaize3]

In 2004 I was shooting my Marlin Guide Gun in 45-70 on the 200 yard range, late one afternoon. I had a red dot sight and was nailing a soda can on the backstop. I had two loads, a 500 grain cast Lee bullet being pushed by AA2495BR, and a 300 grain J-word with a max load of 2495 (about 2200fps).

The 500 grain bullets had to be feed into the chamber one at a time as they were too long for the magazine. I would shoot a bunch of the 500 grain bullets and then follow up with a bunch of 300 grain barn burners. I was having a fine time...

My wife and I were the only ones at the range and then another fellow came and asked to put up targets at the 100 yard range. I quit shooting and waited for him to finish placing his targets and get his ear protection on. When the range went hot again, I picked up my rifle and cocked the hammer and tried to hit the can again.

The rifle did not fire. I worked the lever and an obviously fired 45-70 case came out. The only thing I could think of was that I had left a fired cartridge in the chamber. I simply picked up one of the hot 300 grain loads and slipped it into the chamber and sighted in on the can again. When the gun went off I had much the same experience as you. The rifle exploded and a portion of the barrel flew off to the right (where my wife had be standing only moments before) and hit the bench where the new shooter was over 20 yards away.

The new fellow started hollering, thinking I had a AD in his direction and then he saw me sitting there stunned and ran over to help. My wife was cool, but wanted to take me to the hospital. The blood from my left hand and face had her worried. But the blood thinner I was taking was the prime cause of the bleeding. I had a lot of shrapnel in my hand and face, but the glasses and plan old good luck kept it from being any worse.

I went to the doctor the next day. He x-rayed me and my right thumb was cracked and he got more wood and shrapnel out of my hand. One piece of wood was nearly 2 inches long and I have no idea how I did not see and get it the night before.

I figure that the 500 grain bullet I was shooting somehow stopped about half way down the barrel and the 300 grain hot load hit it and the gun went to pieces. It could have been much worse. Needless to say this was the only time I have ever had an accident like this. I had been schooled in firearms safety since I was old enough to pull a trigger. My Dad and Papaw used the Marine Corp method of training me. I learned quickly that to violate a gun safety rule earned me the back of a hand.

This event has made me an even more observant and safety oriented shooter. If the bullet had stopped closer to me, the resulting explosion would have been even worse and my injuries greater. I was fortunate that the peak pressure had been reached and the pressure curve was going down as the obstruction was met.

I am glad you are ok. Heck of a way to learn....

[DJ1]

Glad to hear you are okay. Thank Hod that it was only your rifle, those can always be replaced, and thank you for sharing this story as a reminder that we can all make mistakes and the hazzards of our hobbies must be carefully observed.

DJ

[Heavy lead]

Glad you're ok, just shows you we all can screw up. I get nervous about using loads that can be double charged, just recently have started to load some reduced cast loads in 30-06 using 16 grains of 2400, got so nervous about it double checked the powder charges 3 times, then still decided to way them all (all 100 rounds in the batch) to make sure they were all within tolerance and couldn't have a double charge.
Think I'll keep doing this.

[timbuck]

Good news that you are ok, bad news, I dont think Leupold will fix it for free.:kidding:

The barrel was 6 feet in front of my bench, the front receiver ring split in two and the stock shattered. I found the front 2/3 of the Leupold scope 30 feet behind me.

[bradh]

Thank You so much for sharing this event, I believe others may not have shared this same event. Thank the Lord you aren't seriously injured! I move cases from
bowl to charge with powder, then place in loaded block, then block under a very
bright light to see the powder charge and then seat the bullets. I believe and saw taught to always eye ball the powder dropped into the cases....

[Shooter6br]

We all do dumb things sometimes like me twice. i had two squib loads that resulted in cracked barrels. Both 45 acp. First in my Galena 45acp second in my Mech Tech carbine. Being more of a revelver guy I did not realize that in both cases i had a bullet stuck in the barrel. I thought the failure to cycle was a "weak load" i fired a second round after the first. i ALWAYS check my cases for visually for powder charge......

[cbrick]

Good that your ok.

I charge a case and seat a bullet, charge a case and seat a bullet. This has kept both me and my firearms safe for many years and many tens of thousands of loaded rounds. Even so last year I ruined a brand new barrel on a Marlin 45 Colt. The rifle didn't come apart but it did severly bulge the chamber, enough to split the case. I was shooting the same load I always use in that gun and had fired over half of the box when this this happened with one round. I pulled the rest of the bullets and weighed the powder, all were right on. I haven't come up with any other reason than a double or at least over charged case. Lucky I guess, all it cost me was a barrel, could have been far worse.

Was probably a moment of paying less than proper attention. It's the single handloading incident I have ever had except for a few primers over the years that had no anvil. No anvil isn't dangerous, just no bang but it can sure ruin your day in a timed match.

A few years ago the oldest shooter at our club showed up with his 45-70 and a box of handloads that he had bought at a gun show. First round turned the rifle into a hand grenade. It split his hand between the middle fingers almost to his wrist. Horrible accident that luckily he did recover from. We tore down some of the loads and they were all triplex loads. Three completely different powders in each case. Reminded me why I would never buy reloads at a gun show. I won't even shoot someone elses reloads unless I know them very, very well.

Pay attention and stay safe.

Rick

[4given]

Selmerfan,

Praise God you were not hurt and thank you for sharing your story with us. It is a sobering reminder that reloading is serious business.

[Lively Boy]

very glad to hear you are ok ! thank you for posting . A very good reminder!

[white eagle]

I am very glad you, first .are all in
one piece and complete and only shaken
as we all know this is an exact science we are
partaking in
I make sure when I load rifle ammo not
EVER to use pistol powder for that very reason
way to easy to set up a failure
once again I glad you are telling us this

[selmerfan]

And with pics...
http://www.hunt101.com/data/500/IMG_61891.JPG
http://www.hunt101.com/data/500/IMG_6191.JPG
http://www.hunt101.com/data/500/IMG_61921.JPG
http://www.hunt101.com/data/500/IMG_6190.JPG
http://www.hunt101.com/data/500/IMG_6187.JPG
http://www.hunt101.com/data/500/IMG_6188.JPG
And finally....the minimal damage to ME.
http://www.hunt101.com/data/500/IMG_61931.JPG

[45nut]

Wow,, that "was" a nice gun. I am happy that you are ok though!!

[Doby45]

OH MY LORD, what did you look like BEFORE the accident?

Nah I am just joking. Thank God you are well and have a testimony, instead of your wife having a testimony.

[Trey45]

This is a very potent reminder to everyone. Reloading can be and is dangerous business. Distractions are often costly.

I am glad you're ok, but it sure is a shame what happened to that beautiful rifle.

[fishnbob]

You can thank GOD that you didn't lose one or both eyes. I have the habit of sometimes not using shooting glasses 'cause I can't see well with them but I don't think I will be without them, ever in the future. I usually move each charged case over to a vacant row in the block and when I am through charging the cases, I hold them under a light and do a visual check on each case. Glad you are ok and sorry about your fine rifle & scope!

[atr]

I am so glad you got out of this without serious injury....

My standing advice and rule #1 when using fast buring powders is to check the powder level with a flashlight ! When all the cases are in a loading block you can quickly see if there has been a double charge. A flashlight is essential for large cases and small charges.

[Baja_Traveler]

After all my cases are primed and ready for powder once i pick one up it does not go back into the block or container until there's a boolit placed in it! Heard of to many double charged cases using loading blocks. steve k

+1 on that!!

[Hamish]

HE definitly had you in his hand! That set of pic's would make a perfect sticky, I would think.

To keep my self from 2x charging I take the first case out of the loading block and, as I charge each case, move it to the next spot. 2 into 1, 3 into 2, etc. I know it's slow, but when doing reduced loading, it is the only way I can confidently move through the cases, and then examine the entire block of cases, using strong light. A hobby, yes. Bomb Disposal Job, no.

Sticky it??

[birdadly]

Very glad you're okay and thanks much for sharing. For someone that just bought his first reloading press and some equipment last week (me), this worries me very much! I suppose I have to think of the big picture though, thousands and thousands of reloads have been shot with nothing going wrong. And if I'm always careful nothing should go wrong. But still scary to think about! Thanks again! -Brad

[9.3X62AL]

Sobering photos, for certain. I'm glad that you are well.

[selmerfan]

The sad thing is that I'm literally functional OCD when it comes to reloading practices, with the exception of moving the cases from one block to the other, which I will do from now on without fail when working with fast pistol powder in rifle cartridges. I ALWAYS check levels with a flashlight and thought that method worked well. I have obviously found out that this method is hardly foolproof. The block transferring method should be foolproof. I give the mods full permission to make this a sticky, even though I'll be sad and a little ashamed every time I see it. I hope my experience can prevent someone from making the same mistake in the future. It aggravates me because I always assumed these things happen to someone else, or they happen to people that reload because they want to "hotrod" their gun. That's not my philosophy and not the way I roll, but I've learned a tough lesson.

[thunderthud]

I learned this from shooting ML's since the middle 70's. If it don't sound right. Investigate.
When I started reloading I've had a squib or two but when it just sounds like a primer pop, dump the magazine or open the cylinder and look down the barrel. Learn to use your hearing as another indicator of what is going on when the trigger is pulled. I'm sure all you guys know this if it sounds funny (peculiar) it probably is. So glad you are alright. the good Lord was on the bench next to you.
I had what I think was a double charged case with AA #5 in a .45 auto. Colt. When I pulled the trigger there was tremndous blast and shrapnel hit my face. I had shooting glasses & hearing protection. the round went out the barrel the case was flame cut 3/4 of the way around the bottom of the case, the next loaded round was flipped around looking at me when I dumped the magazine. All that happened to the Combat Elite was a slighty bent mag spring. SO GLAD I did not have a polymer framed pistol. I reloaded the ammo so no one to blame but me. to this day I cant figure it out but like been said in the other posts, you cant be too careful. Lets all try to stay safe .

[Char-Gar]

I am very glad you are OK..very glad! Thank you for sharing this with the Cast Boolit community as this type of mistake is very easy to make. I take a strong light (Surfire) and shine it into each charged case in the block looking for a case with more powder than the others. I have found one or two over the years.

It is worth it to do the final visual check. Some fellows use a wooden dowel pin and mark it with a pen to where the top of the case neck should be with the correct powder charge. It then becomes a guage and if the mark sticks up above the neck, that spells troubles.

I also don't charge cases in the block. The case does not go into the block until it is charged. I pick up the cases by hand and put them one at a time under the measure and then to the block.

We are living in times, when folks are not willing to slow down their reloading. That is why we so many more "kabooms" these days than in the "days of yore". All to many folks just don't seem to realize just how dangerous reloading can be.

I only fired one double charge in my life and that was a 38 Special round loaded on a Dillon progressive press. It did not damage to the fine old Colt sixgun nor me, but I sold that press down river after that and have never used another progressive. I just do not get in a hurry and don't need a wash tub full of ammo.

[Doc Highwall]

I am glad you are OK. When I use loading blocks I put all the empty cases in one block on left side of the powder measure and after charging it I place it in another block on the right side of the powder measure and when all of the cases are charged I use a flashlight at an angle to check and compare all the cases with one another.

[pmer]

Again thanks for posting and good to know your okay. I'm part of the flash light on the load block bunch. But I haven't done any shooting with pistol powders in rifle cases yet either.

[Centaur 1]

I'm really glad that you're ok, looking at the gun you could've been killed. It takes courage to admit your mistake and share the experience with us. Hopefully the rest of us will stop and take a second to think about how we do our loading.

[luvtn]

I am glad you are OK. When I use loading blocks I put all the empty cases in one block on left side of the powder measure and after charging it I place it in another block on the right side of the powder measure and when all of the cases are charged I use a flashlight at an angle to check and compare all the cases with one another.

Yep, that is the way I do it too. It is a process. Neveer deviate. Check, check, and check again. Glad the OP is ok and thanks for posting.
luvtn

[Joni Lynn]

I'm really glad that you're still with us to relate this story and pretty happy still that you have all your fingers, eyes, etc with which to do it.

I don't think having a full length extractor sticking out of your forehead would have been an improvement.

On the plus side I think the 3 position safety is okay.

[trk]

Hmmm. Another miracle! Some of US learn that way IF we're smart enough.

I wonder if the scope is under warrenty? :)

[captaint]

Selmer - Thanks again for posting your situation. Goes to show us all that, even though we think we are being careful - sometimes we slip. I, too, am a primed case gets powder dumped, I look in the case for the powder and stick a boolit in it. But as you have shown, there are ways to mess anything up. Hope it helps us all pay better attention. Not that it matters, but did you ever find the extractor?? Not sure I've ever seen a bolt action ripped like that. Glad your OK... Mike

[Larry Gibson]

Good to see you are ok. To bad about the rifle though. Yes 40 gr of 2400 is a very unhealthy overload with a 200 gr cast bullet in an '06....obviously. Also want to congradualte you on accepting the resposibility instead of laying the blame on the cartridge case or action. I also have had similar occur to me only not quite that extreme. That's why I use the rule that no case is set in a loading block that does not have powder in it. I have double charge enough cases using the "move the funnel to the next case method" that I don't use it any more.

Yes it is slower to pick up a primed case and put the funnel on, charge it and then set it in the loading block but it sure is a lot safer. After all the cases are charged I also make sure I do visual looking into the cases to ensure equal powder level and no double or missing charges.

Thanks again for the honest report.

Larry Gibson

[selmerfan]

Larry,
I sat at the bench trying to find something to blame - failed case, boolit too large, obstruction in the bore, bad luck, but after looking at the final result, the only cause I can see is massively excessive chamber pressure. The barrel looks good enough that it could almost be screwed back into another action if one could ever get the case out, the failure was at the chamber, therefore I did something wrong. Seeing as the cases ahead of it and behind it were all right at 20 gr. of 2400, the only plausible explanation is my error in doubling the charge. I was a member of the "flashlight gang" for checking cases and thought that I could never possibly mess it up. Well, we aren't perfect, and I'd rather eat some crow and share with the group what happened and what REALLY happened rather than throw a cockameemee "I did everything perfect, what do you all think happened here?" scenario. I'm 100% sure what happened, and I'm 100% that if posting the truth and photos prevents someone from doing this as well, then it was more than worth swallowing my pride to do so.

[dragonrider]

Makes me shake just thinking about that happening. I am so glad you weren't hurt.

[Charlie Two Tracks]

Pastor, you are very fortunate indeed. You may not have your rifle, but you have your sight. Very close call. Thanks for the reminder. Have a great Easter Celebration!

[Armorer]

I am happy to see that you weren't seriously hurt. I think situations like this need to be shared with the forum from time to time. Sometimes people get complacent and just need a slight wakeup call. Those pictures made my guts tighten just a bit, and I won't soon forget them. The way I load is very much similar to Mr. Larry Gibson. Pick up a casing, charge it, and in the block it goes. If I get interrupted for any reason, I automatically dump the powder into the pan on my scale to double check. All my loading is done on a Rockchucker so pistol rounds get done the same as rifle. It's slow, but it works for me.

Armorer

[WKAYE]

I'm glad you were not seriously injured. What a sad ending to a beautiful rifle. A wake up call to all of us. Thanks for posting.

[ricksplace]

Glad you're alright. That's the reason I don't use loading blocks or progressive loaders.

[x101airborne]

Ok, so...... 20 grains of 2400 is too much? Just kidding. Thanks for posting. We all do dumb stuff once in a while. I have had squibbs, misfires, reversed primers, (never a double charge although it is just a matter of time) and such. It is going to happen at least once.

By the way...... That is the last time I loan you a rifle. LOL!!!

[selmerfan]

x101 - thanks for the smile this morning! I actually sat there for at least a minute thinking, "What the heck, 20 gr. is a safe load, why did it just about kill me?" It finally dawned on me after some of the shock wore off that I had to have double charged it. And feel free to send me any rifles, I'll take good care of them. Just make sure they're under an unlimited lifetime warranty. Do you suppose if I took the scope out of the rings and sent it back to Leupold they'd send me another under warranty? ;)

[mroliver77]

Hang that thing above your loading bench! I think I will start collecting pics of blown guns to hang above mine.

I too commend you for owning up to your mistake and not blaming equipment or a SEE etc.

If I ever catch you firing your gun without eye protection, I will kick your butt! You'all have permission to treat me the same.


Even though this was done on a single stage press using the (mostly) accepted flashlight method, some still found a need to bash progressive presses. Sigh.
Jay

[selmerfan]

I'm already trying to figure out just where to put it so that I see it every time I even think about putting powder in a case...it's staying with me as a reminder, conversation piece, and when people wonder why I have all those different powders - "Aren't they all the same?" I've always responded, NO! If you screw up and put too much of some of these powders in a case you can blow the gun up, along with your face, while with the same cartridge and gun and different powder, you can pretty much fill the case, put a bullet on top and be completely safe (4350 or 4831 with a .30-06, for example), while half as much of a different powder will take the gun apart. Now I have a visual example of what happens when you mess up.

I load shotgun shells on a progressive press, and if you screw up one step in that process it is blatantly obvious (or should be to the operator) that something is wrong. I can't imagine a centerfire progressive is any different, but when running the PW progressive for shotgun I close the door on the man cave and put in earplugs, as well as have sticky notes about the motions and operations for each step. I can do it fast, but the reminders are essential, and if anyone knocks on that door or comes in, I stop immediately and make a note of where I'm at. This just goes to show I need to do the same with single-stage loading, even though I was certain I was safe and sound, no errors in over 20 years, right? Right.....it just takes one. There is forgiveness with God, there is no forgiveness with reloading errors except surviving the experience by the grace of God.

[Char-Gar]

The progressives require full attention to every little detail. I find the repetitious nature of using one an invitation for my mind to wander. That is why I shun them.

However, when I uses single sequential steps, I can keep my eye on the ball much better. Plus it is impossible to check the powder charge on each round loaded on a progressive without defeating the purpose of having a progressive.

I have no argument with folks who like and use progressives, they are just not for me.

[Longwood]

The progressives require full attention to every little detail. I find the repetitious nature of using one an invitation for my mind to wander. That is why I shun them.

However, when I uses single sequential steps, I can keep my eye on the ball much better. Plus it is impossible to check the powder charge on each round loaded on a progressive without defeating the purpose of having a progressive.

I have no argument with folks who like and use progressives, they are just not for me.
I had a 450 Dillon that I could trust. I made the mistake of loaning it and my RCBS scale to someone I thought was a friend and he stole them.
I recently bought a Lee Master Pro with all of the, so called, automatic attachments and one of their cheepo and difficult to use plastic powder scales.
HUGE MISTAKE.
I have since removed the unreliable auto prime, prime by hand now, the even more unreliable automatic powder measure with the micro adjust, replaced by a manual RCBS Uniflow that works beautifully, and the down right DANGEROUS, can't see the powder charge, bullet positioner. The case positioner works most of the time so it is still on the press but it may go also.
Sure can't call it automatic but it works fairly well now.
When I think of what I could have bought with the money I wasted,,,,,,
Absolutely no more cheaper Lee JUNK at my house.

[Larry Gibson]

I also load on a progressive Dillon 550B and have decided not to load any rifle cartridge with any powder where a double charge would be dangerous if it can be in the case. Mostly I use charges that a double charge will spill out of the case. Also since many of my reduced loads require a dacron filler I pull the case out at station 3 (if using the 550B) and put the dacron in there just prior to seating the bullet. That way I double check the powder charge also.

As the SDB just loads pistol cartridges and auto advances it is difficult to double charge. However you can slightly double short stroke and still get a double charge so I have learned never to do that. If something gets hung up and I can't make a smooth single stroke I stop, clear and double check everything. I've also slowed down my rate of production to 300 or so rounds per hour instead of trying full tilt production. A lot less mistakes that way.

Most all of my reduced loads are loaded on a single stage press with charged cases going into a loading block, not that I'm flinchy or anything.............

Larry Gibson

[Spector]

Glad you are alright. Those pictures make me cringe.

That's the way my face looked when I had a major case failure in my Glock 21 two weeks ago. It destroyed my Glock frame. I had modified it into a 21/30......or you might call it a long-slide 30. The penetrations under my left eye showed bruising the next day. The powder burn along my right index finger is almost entirely gone now along with one layer of skin. It penetrated through my sweats into my shoulder and stomach as well. Unsure what's in there, but everything seems to be healing.

I told my doctor about it last week when I went in for a routine appointment. Her husband is the firearms instructor and SWAT team leader for a county police department and they carry Glocks. I thought I would pass on the hand trauma info to him through her. I could move my hands, but it was painful and movements were forced. Bad thing for a LEO in the middle of a firefight. The adrenalin dump might negate a lot of that.

I was nice and relaxed when my Glock frame turned into pieces in my hands and even afterward I don't really remember getting all that excited. I did turn and drop to my knees. I recall the pain and thinking I could drive myself to the emergency and then changing my mind after the pain subsided some. I counted fingers and checked both eyes and looked in a mirror to see where the blood was dripping from my nose.

Then I began to look for Glock pieces. Part of the shattered trigger was still in the frame. The frame separated into two pieces at the back of the mag well. It separated at the slide takedown latch on the left side as well and a semicircular piece about the size of a half dollar was missing on the right side where I got the powder burn on my index finger and hand. It blew the magazine out and gutted it. Only the small plate that fits between the magazine bottom and the spring was broken on it.

I usually don't shoot off a bench, but this time I was load testing. The rest kept the magazine from easily blowing free of the frame and may have contributed to the pressure being forced even more outward.

After about 10 minutes I remembered to offer up a small prayer to God for looking out for dumb-asses like me.

Sure glad I was wearing my safety glasses or I definitely would have required surgery on my left eye. There is a small crater in the left lens.

I have owned this Glock for over 20 years and put over 13,000 cast boolit rounds through it....some very hot loads. I was always cavalier about reloading safety. With this event that attitude has changed. At first I figured I must have made a powder charge mistake. Now I don't think so. I think it was simply a flaw in a case that lined up with the unsupported area of the chamber and kaboom. The barrel and slide seem fine, though if I choose to use either again I will get them magnafluxed first.

I loved that pistol especially after I modified it, but if I get another 1st generation frame and modify it I will definitely have an aftermarket barrel fitted with a fully supported chamber. My shooting buddy, who also shoots Glocks, believes I must have made a powder charge error. I dropped the charges from a RCBS Chargemaster and all that I checked on a balance beam checked fine. I had loaded Lee 255 grain RF boolits. And if I had put two 6.5 grain charges of HERCO in that 45 ACP case it would filled that case to within 1/16'' of the top.

There are two extractor marks on the ruptured case showing it had been fired at least twice. There could have been more marks on the blown away area of the case that perfectly matched the unsupported area in the Glock chamber.

I had just fired 134 rounds using a 213 grain boolit from a modified Lee mold. I cleaned the barrel, which cleaned very easily with just 4 patches and some Outers Nitro Solvent. I checked the bore using magnification and it was spotless. I then fired one single different load into the backstop and checked the case. Everything looked fine. I sat down at the bench and loaded 9 rounds into the magazine. The next round I fired struck the target about 2 1/2'' low. I checked that case and it looked fine. The next round went kaboom, but still struck the target just 2 5/8'' from my first shot on the target.

I used to fire my WCC 45 ACP cases until they developed neck splits and then I retired them. I have discovered since my incident that many people recommend not to fire cases over twice in a semi-auto pistol period.

Safety glasses can save the day. If you know your mistake you can take corrective action. If you can't pinpoint what caused the problem then all you can do is quit or just bone up on the latest safe practices in reloading.

I used to believe that Glock kabooms using factory barrels only happened to those who reloaded the higher pressure cartridges for Glocks. I no longer believe that.

I went back to the range two days later with a revolver to get back on the horse so to speak. I intend to keep reloading and shooting, but this event has changed me. For the better I hope........Mike

[Wayne Smith]

God is good, Selmerfan! Protection from the conquences of our mistakes is way more grace than we deserve.

If a case is charged with powder it immediately gets a bullet or boolit. That way I have never had a double charge. Have gotten distracted and bulleted a case without powder, though. I'd rather make that mistake. This is my process with all rifle cartridges - whatever the powder.

[Fishman]

Glad you are ok.

I would hang that over my bench as a reminder to be careful.

[selmerfan]

It's already hung in the man cave.

[Von Gruff]

Just logged back on and saw your post in the test area. Glad to see you have escaped without injury. It takes something like this to bring home to us all just how much care is needed at the loading bench. I do the flashlight test but also do the marked dowel in the case test as well. There will be a sermon or two in this for you I guess.

Von Gruff.

[oscarflytyer]

WOW! You are a very lucky man. There are still things left for you to do!

I have seen pix of a lot of blown up guns, and yours rates about the worst I have ever seen/heard about. Again, you are VERY lucky! Glad you are ok.

I just started reloading again after a long hiatus. And I have been very nervous and overly careful (if that's even possible!?!) getting back into it. Think I may start moving cartridges to a new reloading block as I charge them. Been turning them upside down/right side up as I accomplish each prep task.

[Walt-MT]

Praises to Him who tends to us all....and thank you for reminding this shooter to mind all safty procedures every time.
WA

[pistolman44]

Here is a short story that could have turned ugly. A guy was shooting a long barrel 44mag revolver at the next bench from me. I heard a pop from the guys revolver. He was cocking the hammer to fire another round, I shouted to him not to shoot again. I told him to unload his revolver and look into the barrel. Sure enough there was a bullet stuck half way.

[kelbro]

FWIW, QuickLoad estimates that load (40gr of 2400) at reaching nearly 90K psi in the first inch of travel.

Thank God you are OK.

[CJR]

Glad to hear you're OK! Guns can be replaced, humans can't. I try hard to avoid two reloading problems; i.e. double-charging (excessive powder pressure) and loading an empty case (bulging barrel by firing bullet against barrel lodged bullet) . To avoid double-charging pistols or rifles, I use no powder/charge unless an accidental double-charge overflows on my bench. To avoid loading an empty case, particularly with a progressive press, I position a high intensity light over the powder charged case that is ready for the bullet. Then just before placing the bullet, I visually check for powder. To avoid loading an empty case, with a standard press, I charge 5 cases at a time, check the 5 charged cases with a bright flashlight, and then seat the bullets.

Also, an observation. Though this definitely looks like an overpressure, your gun appears to be made of stainless steel. Likewise, most stainless steel guns are made from 416 ss material, which can give catastrophic brittle fractures at lower pressures. Your photo seems to indicate a brittle type fracture. A qualified lab can look at the fracture surface and determine if it is a brittle fracture. Ideally, pressure vessels should bulge very extensively before letting go.

Again, glad to hear you are safe.

Best regards,

CJR

[Fomdiddle]

Thank God you are OK. We all do things we later regret but only God can save us from ourselves. Fom

[selmerfan]

CJR, are you suggesting that this is a rifle defect vs. an over-charge? I'm pretty certain it's not. I'm not a metallurgist, but the fact that all of the metal is still attached to the SS receiver indicates to me that there was a certain "elasticity" before everything gave. I was shooting other loads at the bench before this one blew all to hell, and hundreds if not thousands of full-power jacketed loads before this as well. I'm pretty certain this was an incident of a double-charge.

[Thinktwicez71]

holy **** ....i am so glad your ok , when i reload my stuff i only use the reloading block for resizeing/deprimeing , expanding and primeing , once the powder goes into the case it doesn't go back into the reloading block until a bullet has been seated to the correct depth into it.

[CJR]

Selmafan,

This was most likely an overpressure event. However, a simple visual inspection of the fracture surface can determine if this was a brittle type fracture.

But, be aware that 416 can let go at normal pressures or at low temperatures. The constituents used in 416 , to improve machining, cause low cycle fatigue/brittle type cracking issues. Also, 416 has very low impact toughness at low temperature (Charpy Test). Hence the ASME (American Society of Mechanical Engineers) does not allow its use in ASME Coded pressure vessels. A number of 416 guns have catastrophically failed in low temperatures with normal pressure loads. I've had a number of conversations with benchrest barrel makers and arms manufacturers who had their 416 barrels let go. 17-4PH ss, an Aerospace material, is a better barrel material, though $$$$$$, and used by some barrel makers and Freedom Arms (Casuls)

Forewarned is forearmed! Stay safe.

Best regards,

CJR

[Three44s]

selmerfan,

God was with you at your accident. I'm very glad you are OK. They can make more guns but there is only ONE YOU! And you are in one piece ..........

As I read through this now long thread I began thinking about the make up of the members of this board ......... with very few exceptions ..... a VERY cautious lot.

Then my thoughts drifted to the future of handloading and casting.

With a few exceptions our population is drifting towards an abiss. The folks coming into our ranks are more and more ............ are into a sort of instant gratification mindset.

What you experienced ............ and how you are handling yourself ........... in a MOST ADULT manner I might add .......... IF it were to happen to one of these "youngsters" would be handled much more differently. IN FACT, the very occurence of many more of these accidents is growing by the day.

What I am describing certainly applies to handloading and boolit casting but has great implications in MANY other fields of endeavor.

All of this leads up to future sermons ..............

I would bet that many will not hear your urgings but that does not mean it's for naught .......

I wish you a most blessed Easter and greatly thank you for sharing with such candor!

Three 44s

[Three44s]

I am posting this separately for obvious reasons:

Also, as I read this thread ........ and I am sure ALL who read all the posts ........ I thought of my hide FIRST!

I was re-running in my mind how I do my loading .......... it only makes good sense to do so.

In my 35 years, I have had just one uncharged case .......... I have had squibs but they were all in one batch of .44's and that was due to a lube wad I was using .......... and those loads went through very hot weather on the dash of my truck.

Yes ......... DUMB!

For pistol I block charge and dillegently check with light .............. but another member touched on something I strive to do ............

Besides lighting and sighting the powder level I have where I could used a pencil or appropriate sized rod to physically check the powder level.

With rifle cases I do a pile of primed brass and charge and then load them into a block. Then I revert to the light, sight and often a pencil or rod with a marking carved into the wood or scribed into the metal rod. This gives me an extra layer of checking.

I don't use a rod on rifle cases that the charges are upto the vicinity of the neck as you can't double there but powder bridging in the measure is certainly a concern with more coarse powders so variations are to be watched for there.

The progressive method of loading has been mentioned. There are powder checking dies made for this ..... one comes to mind called Powder Cop.

Not wanting to profess any perfection ....... FAR FROM IT .......... just repeating safeguarding techniques already mentioned by other members.

Best regards to all and have a safe Easter season and beyond!!

Three 44s

[selmerfan]

CJR - very interesting, thanks for the info. I'm not sure what Winchester Classic SS actions are made of specifically, I do know that the barrel appears to be fine, one could almost screw it back into another action except for a ding in the threads, but that could be cleaned up easily. This wasn't a barrel issue, this was a chamber pressure issue and relatively normal temps, 45 degrees Fahrenheit. I'd love to blame it on the gun, but I think I just have to suck it up and admit I made a mistake with a double charge. I don't think there is anyway to prove otherwise.

[Arisaka99]

Well, obviously God had his hand on you. Happy to hear you'll be able to keep spreading God's word!!

[Recluse]

Load development is a time in reloading in which I lock the shop door, turn off the tv, turn off the phone and want no distractions. I'll have the classical station playing softly in the background--helps keep my mind focused.

I use multiple loading blocks--one for sizing/depriming/prep then priming. One for charging, one for bullet seating.

But that is ONLY for established loads using traditional slow-burning rifle powders.

When I'm working up or on a load using the non-traditional faster powders, while it is a PITA to do so, I do one load at a time from beginning to end (with the exception of case prep and priming).

I measure the powder, charge, seat the bullet/boolit, crimp is necessary, needed or wanted, bag the loaded rounds and slip the 3x5 notecard with all info in the ziplock bag.

This takes a lot longer, but I get real nervous working with fast-burning powders in long rifle cases.

I also keep several little flexible neck LED lights handy and check each case before I seat the bullets/boolits.

Most important of all, I listen to my gut. If it doesn't feel right--for ANY reason--I dump the powder and do it again.

Glad--VERY glad--you're okay and here to share the story with us.

:coffee:

[Spector]

I love classical music, but not all of it allows me to focus on on other tasks. ha ha

I keep a stethascope near my reloading station. It is of limited use, but it will tell me if I've forgotten to load powder in an already assembled cartridge. In many cases it can easily distiguish a double powder charge from a proper charge and compressed from noncrompressed powder charges.

Last night I pulled down the 47 cartridges I had left from the batch that included the catostrophic case failure in my Glock. I found no problems with the powder charges.

My shooting buddy informed me this morning that he has ordered an aftermarket barrel for his Glock 30 that has a fully supported chamber. We are both very curious to see how it performs after it arrives.

I have forgotten to load powder twice for my Glock in 20 years. That included over 13,000 reloads for that pistol. Both times it resulted from me tearing down a cartridge, replacing the boolit and forgetting to put the powder back in the case after tearing it down. In other words after getting out of my reloading routine. Once I loaded a primer backwards in a 6.5x55 and did not catch my mistake until I got a mild pop and smoke coming from my receiver. No damage of any kind, just a bolt that I needed to disassemble and clean.

This case rupture was probably a good thing for me, though not fun at all, to get my full and undivided attention. Sort of like the time I managed to stick the end of my thumb in a table saw. Nothing lost, but it was sensitive for many years and I never forgot to repect that piece of equipment again.........Mike

[bjames]

Glad you're ok you have sparked safety in people's minds with you're storie and a lot of good safety tip's.

[Longwood]

I have been reading about blown up guns since the sixties and lost count a long time ago. I have seen at least ten hanging on gun store walls and I don't go to very many of them.
For the life or me, I can't understand why people shoot small enough loads that it is possible to double charge a case.
**** HAPPENS folks and it sure could happen to you!
It sure seems like a DOWN RIGHT STUPID IDEA to risk life and limb to save a few pennies.
I find fuller case loads are usually more accurate in about everything I have ever fired and I have reloaded for almost every gun I ever owned.. I suppose there are those that will argue that butwhy take dumb a$$ chances?

[nanuk]

<<<big snip>>>

Reminded me why I would never buy reloads at a gun show. I won't even shoot someone elses reloads unless I know them very, very well.

Pay attention and stay safe.

Rick


Great advice there cbrick. I won't even shoot some elses handloads, even if I know them...

[nanuk]

FWIW, QuickLoad estimates that load (40gr of 2400) at reaching nearly 90K psi in the first inch of travel.

Thank God you are OK.


that is the info I was looking for

BTW: What is the rifle designed to handle for a max pressure?

[LUBEDUDE]

Very Sobering.

So Glad you are fine.

Thanks so much for sharing.

[JohnH]

After having a double charge of surplus #107 in a 25-06 case jam up the action of my Encore, I bought a cheapy air guage at Wally World and cut the reader stem off. I now drop this into my charged cases prior to seating boolits to insure that all read the same. I don't like the flashlignt method with bottle neck cases, especially of 30-06 parentage, as the case is simpy too tall to get an honest apprasial of the actual powder charge. However, a case that suddenly reads "30" where you'd been seeing "60" gets your attention.

[selmerfan]

John, the air gauge suggestion is a good one. This event happened several months ago, and I have to be honest, it took some mental hurdles to jump over to get behind the gun again. I was sure it wouldn't, but it's different when you're sitting behind it! I have successfully gotten back in the saddle and I'll be back out on the range again today with my .308 Win. and a Ruger Hawkeye in .30-06 should be arriving at my FFL today. I've changed the way I charge all of my reloads now - strictly with the B&M measure, Tupperware container of loose, primed brass, only charged brass goes into the block, and on loads that could be double charged, only cases with a charge AND a boolit go in the block.

[Char-Gar]

I am sorry about the rifle, but glad you are OK. There is a lesson here for all of us who handload.

[Gtek]

I would say JESUS LOVES YOU! great you came out with only cuts! My father way back when told me this is how it is done. Two blocks, one right, one left. Pull one from right block to middle, load, move to left block. Has worked for forty years and kept me so far from re-examaning everything in my life. Once again glad your ok! Gtek

[ghh3rd]

Shooting ranges only require normal eye glasses for eye protection, which I follow. I wonder how effective they really would be if a gun turns into shrapnel?

Randy

[jonk]

I'm a bit late to the discussion but, first, glad you are ok. Second, I would suspect even MORE than a double charge. If, as someone posted, 40 gr of 2400 would be a 90k PSI load, that's proof territory- but it should not, in theory, have caused a catastrophic failure. Bulged barrel and welded the case to the bolt perhaps. I'm wondering if you somehow had a TRIPLE charge?

I did accidentally drop a double charge of Red Dot- 28 gr to be specific- in an 8mm Mauser under a 175 gr bullet. Other than a loud bark and sticky extraction and a good smear of lead in the bore, nothing happened. I have headspace gauges; all was fine. This proves one thing- old steel couldn't take the day to day battering of high pressure without lug setback, but could take one catastrophic overload better than some new steels, being softer and less prone to catastrophic failure and cracking.

Just a thought.

[SSGOldfart]

glad your OKay You were very lucky:holysheep:holysheepthat was a lesson learned the hard way[smilie=b:

[gandydancer]

I have seen a new colt single action 45 LC & 45 ACP a two cylinder revolver blow the top three chambers and top strap almost off of the frame useing factory winchester 45 acp rounds the man shooting it was not a reloader. he was un hurt winchester said it had to have been a reload. and wanted to see the rest of the ammo.the man died a few months later. none of us ever knew he was sick. the big C. he never did send the rest of the ammo to winchester. he left it with a old nam buddy to have a lab check it out. I don't think it ever was. GD

[Echo]

Shooting ranges only require normal eye glasses for eye protection, which I follow. I wonder how effective they really would be if a gun turns into shrapnel?

Randy

I believe ALL 'normal' eyeglass lenses now are safety-type, either plastic or hardened glass. I may be wrong...

[C.F.Plinker]

I believe ALL 'normal' eyeglass lenses now are safety-type, either plastic or hardened glass. I may be wrong...

All glasses have had to be impact resistant for decades now. It used to be that you lhad to pay extra for impact resistant lenses.

The impact resistant glasses are about 2mm thick at the thinnest point. "Safety Glasses" that meet the ANSI standards have to have the same materials as impact resistant glasses BUT they must be almost 3mm thick. (I am sure that someone can come up with the actual numbers since I am just going by memory here)

When I was working my employer would furnish one set of Safety Glasses every two years for those of us who worked out in the field rather than just in the office. After I retired I continued to get Safety Glasses whenever my prescription changed. I found out early that many vendors are not able to supply Safety Glasses. Of course I complicate it because I want glass not plastic lenses since I usually clean them with the nearest rag or lacking that a nearby shirt tail. I suggest that we all try to find Safety Glasses rather than the usual impact resistant glasses.

[hicard]

+1 on what 45nut said. Glad you are ok, what a shame it happened. Don't be too hard on yourself. Checking Quik Loads, that was over 89,000 PSI.

[BOOM BOOM]

HI,
GLAD YOU ARE OK.

WEEPING ,WAILING, & KNASSHING OF TEETH.:Fire::Fire:

[quasi]

coned bolt and barrel and a M70 are not known for handling excessive loads very well. A Rem. 700 would have done better.

[45-70 Chevroner]

I wounder it you can put it back together! Ha Ha
None of us are perfect when it comes to reloading. We all have our own way of double checking our loads and even those are not always perfect. A flash light looking into each case will negate a lot of worries. I like the two loading tray idea also. Sure glad you are ok.

[Barr]

Glad that you are still here with us. I had a similar root cause in a .38 Special one time with a double charge. That incident caused me to buy a different brand progressive press to include a powder check die to avoid that with the additional inspection.