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View Full Version : Parker Hale 1853 3 Band Enfield



Bad Ass Wallace
12-10-2006, 11:05 PM
Just bought my first ever muzzleloader, a 58cal Enfield for $300. This one is a genuine manufactured by Parker Hale and I'm told that they are a good rifle. The previous owner said that he fired about 20 shots, got very sick and then has never fired it again for over 30 years.

Anyone with experience, recommend a good bullet mould for target work?

Phil
12-11-2006, 12:00 AM
I had a PH 1858 two band rifle, wish I still had it. I used a Lyman original style Minie and around 60 to 70 grains of FF as I recall. A very accurate rifle at 100 yards. Like I said, wish I had that one back.

Sounds like you got a real bargain at $300! You'll enjoy it for years to come. They are really beautiful guns.

Cheers,

Phil

PAT303
12-11-2006, 12:27 AM
Bad *** shoot the heaviest minie you can get,mine is from bug and cast's around 620 grn and shoot with just enough lube to do the job and no more.I'd start slightly lower than Phil at 50 grains of black and use the best powder you can get.We shoot alot of PH military rifles up here(hunter valley NSW) and we found the longer heavier bullet shot best in every one we have without exception. Pat

Bad Ass Wallace
12-11-2006, 05:23 AM
I looked up the Midway site and there are about 14 different 575 cal minnie moulds from 320gn to 560gn. Lee has the biggest range but any preference in mould supplier?
Are 570 patched balls worth trying?

NickSS
12-11-2006, 07:18 AM
You got a bargan price for your PH rifle. I have two of the carbine versions (i also had a 2 band and a 3 band rifle but sold them so I could buy a Sharps rifle). I shoot several different Minnie bullets and round balls in my Musketoon. The round balls shoot well out to 50 yards and can be stretched to 100 yards. Typical groups I get are around 1.5 inch at 50 yards using 50 gr. of GOEX FFFG. Using a Rapine original Minnie ball (475 gr.) get similar results at 50 yards with the same load. I found that to get optimum results I needed to have my minnies sized to about one thousandth under bore diameter. Any looser fit and accuracy falls off. My rifle has a sluged bore diameter of .5775 amd I run my minnies through a .577 push through sizing die after I dip lube the bullets.

For RB I use either a .563 or .570 ball and either a .0016 or a .0010 patch depending upon which ball. I get good accuracy with both but the tighter ball shoots a bit better but is harder to load. I

shooter575
12-11-2006, 11:30 AM
Like NickSS said.Bore dia is first thing to figure.Then order a mould.You can allways size smaller.Many Lee minne moulds will cast under stated dia.It is a crap shoot buying them.But they can work well if it fits.
Here are a few links you might like.
N-SSA homepage
http://www.n-ssa.org/
BB fore above
http://www.n-ssa.net/phpbb/
Another site with good info
http://www.civilwarguns.com/
BB for above
http://www.civilwarguns.com/board/
UK site for M/L
http://www.researchpress.co.uk/
Info on lock tuning and minne casting
http://www.nwtskirmisher.com/useful-locks.shtml
http://www.nwtskirmisher.com/useful-casting.shtml

PAT303
12-11-2006, 06:29 PM
If the minnie slides down the bore with no lube on it,it's to small Pat

andrew375
12-12-2006, 05:01 AM
Just bought my first ever muzzleloader, a 58cal Enfield for $300. This one is a genuine manufactured by Parker Hale and I'm told that they are a good rifle. The previous owner said that he fired about 20 shots, got very sick and then has never fired it again for over 30 years.

Anyone with experience, recommend a good bullet mould for target work?

Lyman do a mould specialy for the ph enfields, it is the one with the suffix PH and was originaly made to be supplied with the rifle. It's what I and many others use with great success.

Lube it with 50/50 Beeswax/Vasaline.

Load with 70gr. of medium powder.

Bad Ass Wallace
12-12-2006, 08:04 AM
Thank you all for your input and usefull links.

The Lyman PH minnie sounds the way to go.

shooter575
12-12-2006, 11:56 AM
I bought one of them PH moulds.Nice mould.Pricey at 80.00 years ago.Has the squat baseplug for a boxwood plug.I read somewhere someone had good luck filling it with bondo insted of a wood plug.Anyway mine was nice but cast wayyyy to small.Droped out at .573. Would not shoot in any of my muskets.Maybe with a PP it would work? Hmmm.Maybe I should dig it back out? Would like one in .577 or .578

Buckshot
12-14-2006, 04:58 AM
.................I have the Lyman P-H Minie'. I sure didn't pay any $80 for it :-). It was priced same as the other Minie'moulds. Drops a 566gr short (and somewhat thin) skirted slug. It drops just about exactly at .580" which is perfect for my P-H 2 Band P58.

BA Wallace, if your P53 is true to form with a 72" twist by all means try a patched RB too. P-H did produce some P53's with a 48" twist. Not a true reproduction with that fast twist, but as to being a shooter, zounds! If your rifle has 3 lands and grooves it has the slower twist.

..................Buckshot

shooter575
12-14-2006, 11:56 AM
Buckshot,that mould was the english one.Blocks are huge. Half again the size of the lyman blocks.Would not even fit a standard lyman handles.

I seem to recall that all of the 3 band 53s were 3 land 1:72. Only some of the 2 band 1856 model had 5 land @48" twist

I hear the international minne works well also.

Buckshot
12-16-2006, 12:05 PM
Buckshot,that mould was the english one.Blocks are huge. Half again the size of the lyman blocks.Would not even fit a standard lyman handles.

I seem to recall that all of the 3 band 53s were 3 land 1:72. Only some of the 2 band 1856 model had 5 land @48" twist

I hear the international minne works well also.

Jim, P-H did do a run of P53's with a 48" twist for the American market. It's possible one may have made it down under. I can't remember if the N-SSA gave it the green light or not.

My mistake on the P-H mould. I htought they might have had Lyman make them for them. I've never seen one of the original moulds for the rifle. Is the Lyman a copy or do thya just call it the 575213 P-H ?

.................Buckshot

C1PNR
12-16-2006, 06:09 PM
BAW,
That is one fine shootin' machine! My Confederate friends in the Civil War Skirmish Association (West Coast version of N-SSA for a while) had several of them back in the early 70s and they were very hard to beat!

I don't find any mention of them now, but I think Buckshot is right when he mentions the Lyman 575213-PH, or it could have been 577213-PH. It was maybe a little heavier than the 575213. We also shot the 57730, but that was more a hunting load with a MUCH thicker skirt and a LOT more powder.

The 575213 series with the thinner skirt works very well with the standard military load of the time of 60 grains of FFg. Back in the day we were using the Gearhart-Owen Industries (GOI) "Made in the same plant since 1912" powder which came in the red and white can identical to the DuPont Powders of the time.

My home made lube for all Miniés is rendered beef suet and paraffin, about 2:1, and I think it's 2 parts suet.

BTW, if you are married I suggest you render the beef suet somewhere other than the kitchen oven. I am still married, but it was a close thing after doing the first batch just before SWMBO got home.:-D

shooter575
12-16-2006, 08:51 PM
Jim, P-H did do a run of P53's with a 48" twist for the American market. It's possible one may have made it down under. I can't remember if the N-SSA gave it the green light or not.

My mistake on the P-H mould. I htought they might have had Lyman make them for them. I've never seen one of the original moulds for the rifle. Is the Lyman a copy or do thya just call it the 575213 P-H ?

.................Buckshot

I have never seen a 53 with the 1:48.At least no pointed it out to me.N-SSA rules dont care what type of rifleing.I got to assume that the fast twist 53s were in the first batch of all english made ones.They are refered to as 1 gen.2nd gen were mixture of english and Italian parts put together in Italy.Last I heard Val Fogget of Navy arms kid is/planing to build them in WV.?
Just looking at the pic in a mid-south catalog my PH mould is close.Base looks the same.Ogive is diffrent my minne has a larger flat.I forgot that Lyman made one also.

shooter575
12-19-2006, 10:04 AM
Here is a link to some more info on the serial # and cut off dates on UK made enfields and Itailan ones.
http://www.n-ssa.net/phpbb/viewtopic.php?t=6087

PatMarlin
12-19-2006, 08:57 PM
You got a pic yet ******?

Would like to see that baby.. :drinks:

RGRWJB
06-01-2017, 10:43 AM
Does anyone have a .577 Parker Hale mold for sale? I have three of these guns, Musketoon, Volunteer and the 1853 (3 band.) If you do email me at RGRWJB@hotmail.com. TIA

Standing Bear
06-01-2017, 09:58 PM
Nick55 or anyone where to get a .576 push thru sizer?
Thx
TC

bob208
06-01-2017, 10:09 PM
I was looking at a two band rifle this past sunday. he wanted $450 for it going back this sunday. going to look it over real close. if I want it am going to lay $400 on the table and see if he picks it up.