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superior
04-07-2011, 11:44 PM
Well, I tried it and it worked! I ground up some match heads into a red powder, and then liquified it with water. I then poured the mixture into a spent .22 case ( just enough to cover the bottom). After letting it dry overnight, I charged the case with powder from another .22 case and stuck a #4 buck pellet in the case mouth.
I loaded it into my Remington Apache 77 ( a late 80's run of a nylon 66 made exclusively for Walmart) and POW!! It shot through a phone book at 15 yards with "minute of rodent" accuracy. I can't say that it was a practical thing to do, but it's good to know that just in case, it could be done. I would like to know what powders and in what quantity can be substituted for the .22 powder without blowing something up. I wonder also if enough match head compound would suffice in lieu of powder.:drinks:

Bret4207
04-08-2011, 08:23 AM
Huh, interesting. Ever try rebuilding a Boxer primer that same way? Wonder if it would work?

Poygan
04-08-2011, 09:04 AM
Bret,
Yes I have and yes it did work. I used the tip only of a strike anywhere match.

Shooter6br
04-08-2011, 01:25 PM
Interesting. Sounds like useful if stuck in the outback and could not get 22 RF ammo. Nothing wrong with it. I do things mainly cause i can. As times change may be a useful piece of info....

Freightman
04-08-2011, 03:12 PM
I loaded some boxer primers with caps and found that it works but is far to sensitive as some went off just re installing the anvil in the primer.

troy_mclure
04-08-2011, 11:02 PM
noe is running a 37gr .22 group buy. pick yourself up one. lol

cavalrymedic
04-08-2011, 11:10 PM
Well, I think I'll file this into my apocolypse/zombie plan. My son does stuff like this when I'm not watching. Hasn't lost any fingers, yet.

Mk42gunner
04-09-2011, 11:21 PM
I have read of people doing this. One thing, clean your gun, somewhere in the back of my mind corrosive priming is trying to be heard. A little bit of water sounds like cheap insurance.

Robert

PatMarlin
04-09-2011, 11:51 PM
Cool.

If the water mixed with and solidified it, why even use an anvil? I wonder if you flattened the firing pin ding out, and reused it without an anvil if it would work?

jim147
04-10-2011, 01:37 AM
Have you found anything you can do with the strike on box matches? That's about all I can find anywhere.

Mk42gunner, you're about the only one on this board that would know where I am.

I'm just outside Hume.

jim

zuke
04-10-2011, 07:55 AM
Anyone try this in a hollow point bullet yet?

perotter
04-10-2011, 10:07 AM
Cool.

If the water mixed with and solidified it, why even use an anvil? I wonder if you flattened the firing pin ding out, and reused it without an anvil if it would work?

I never thought to try that. Anvils are a pain in the rear.

I'll try loading one that way today with a non corrosive mix I've been making that is a little more sensitive than most. If that doesn't work, I'll add a frictionizer. There are a couple of other things that I could try if these 2 don't work.

It will be a few days before they can be tried out in a rifle.

perotter
04-10-2011, 10:10 AM
Have you found anything you can do with the strike on box matches? That's about all I can find anywhere.


jim

About the only thing is to mix some of the material from the striker strip in with the match head material. IMO, it is easier to make the primer mix up from scratch then to use tmatch heads.

perotter
04-10-2011, 10:29 AM
Non corrosive primer mixes for rim fire & berdan primer easier to make than the ones for boxer primers. This statement is based on what is easy to buy & DIY without much equipment. Also, it is base on doing it with current commercial type of processes. There are ways that a DIYer could do it with boxers that would be cost prohibitive for a company that has the bottom line to watch.

Good corrosive primer mixes for all types are very simple & cheap to make.

FWIW, I'm thinking of putting a thread on this site(if there is any interest in it) about DIY primer mixes and the results of testing them. I work full time & have kids to take care of, so I can't do it all in a few weeks. It would be over the course of the rest of the year.

jh45gun
04-10-2011, 11:48 AM
Seems like a bother two me a 1000 rounds of 22 ammo is pretty easy to pack and would last a long time if used right. If your worried about running low on ammo get a bow or crossbow that you can make your own arrows easier than trying to load 22 ammo.

PatMarlin
04-10-2011, 12:24 PM
FWIW, I'm thinking of putting a thread on this site(if there is any interest in it) about DIY primer mixes and the results of testing them. I work full time & have kids to take care of, so I can't do it all in a few weeks. It would be over the course of the rest of the year.

By all means put... :Fire:

Put a link here for reference as well... YA!

HollowPoint
04-10-2011, 12:49 PM
When I used to shoot in archery tournaments I remember a buddy of mine relating a story of a guy he new that packed the tip of his arrow with match heads and a cap. (toy pistol cap)

When his arrow hit the back stop, it ignited the match heads causing the arrow to rocket back in his direction. I didn't get any more details than that but, I thought it was pretty funny in a Jack-Ass sort of way.

On the other hand, reloading 22 RF seems like it may be something worthwhile for someone.

Just when I think I've read a little about just about everything in the reloading genre, something else like this comes up.

Keep up the good work gentlemen.

HollowPoint

perotter
04-10-2011, 01:17 PM
FWIW, some where here I have a book that says back when shooting galleries were big(think Coney Island) some of them reloaded their 22 RF. They kind of set up an assembly line to do it.

What I'd like to see some one do is dehead a 22 RF - the swaging section. Then make header to re-head the case. Then there would be little or no "bad" spot on the case.

Lonegun1894
04-10-2011, 03:02 PM
I can't tell y'all what kind or how much powder, and have not tried reloading .22 LR. however, I have used match heads instead of powder in a .38 Spl, and it worked fairly well. I did not have a chronograph to check velocity, but my usual bullet hit 3 inches high at 25 yds, making me believe it must be going slightly slower than my loads using Unique. The group of 10 shots was about 4 inches using a Taurus snubbie, so not great, but serviceable. Hope that helps someone with the 22s.

fatboy
04-10-2011, 03:14 PM
perotter,
i would be very interested in a thread about primer mixs

Mk42gunner
04-10-2011, 08:27 PM
Have you found anything you can do with the strike on box matches? That's about all I can find anywhere.

Mk42gunner, you're about the only one on this board that would know where I am.

I'm just outside Hume.

jim

Hi Neighbor,

The Family Center in Butler has strike anywhere matches, (new ones). I think they're about a dollar a box.

Robert

wills
04-10-2011, 08:30 PM
Have you found anything you can do with the strike on box matches? That's about all I can find anywhere.

Mk42gunner, you're about the only one on this board that would know where I am.

I'm just outside Hume.

jim

HEB has the good old fashioned Diamond strike anywhere matches so we know they are not extinct.

-06
04-10-2011, 09:02 PM
Your local hardware store can order you some if you cannot find any online. I know we all know the dangers of strike anywhere matches but they are nothing to play with. I had some in my pocket and got a bump to them. I got a big hole in my shirt pocket---front and back. Rats chewing on them have set them off. Keep them in vermin proof containers.

jim147
04-11-2011, 12:25 AM
Hi Neighbor,

The Family Center in Butler has strike anywhere matches, (new ones). I think they're about a dollar a box.

Robert


Picking up a couple bags of feed tomorrow. I'll look around for the matches.

Thanks.

jim

wills
04-11-2011, 05:13 PM
How have we managed to survive all these incredible perils?

bearcove
04-25-2011, 04:12 PM
Dang and I thought I'd just keep an extra brick on hand.

jh45gun
04-25-2011, 09:58 PM
Yea I agree with the extra brick I think a lot of folks think a 22 LR is handy to have since ammo even at todays inflated prices is relatively cheap and since they are small you can store a lot with out taking a lot of room.

a.squibload
04-26-2011, 01:00 AM
Oh, THAT kind of brick.

I was gonna ask what kind of trajectory you're gettin' with a brick...:kidding:

nanuk
04-26-2011, 02:06 AM
Well, I tried it and it worked! I ground up some match heads into a red powder,......

How did you do that without it going "Pow"??

leadman
04-26-2011, 11:35 PM
Seems to me there was quite a thread on reusing boxer primers a year or so ago, maybe longer.

Could just buy a flintlock to keep around.

perotter
04-27-2011, 07:45 AM
How did you do that without it going "Pow"??

Here is a link to a video by forum Delmar the shows how he did it:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u7nphPRG6JA

perotter
04-27-2011, 07:50 AM
Seems to me there was quite a thread on reusing boxer primers a year or so ago, maybe longer.

Could just buy a flintlock to keep around.

It is much less time consuming to make primer mix than to make a flint. Also, the raw material for making primer mix is much more widely distributed.

NoDakJak
06-09-2011, 11:11 PM
I have in front of me a copy of "American Guerilla In The Philippines". The book was written by Ira Wolfert in 1945 and covers the experiences of Lt. David Richardson. Richardson was the executive officer of PT-34 which was part of the unit that rescued General Macarthur from the Japanese. Richardson escaped capture from the Japanese and helped form the Philippine Guerillas into a national wide cohesive force. On pages 94/96 of my copy he describes making ammo for th service weapons. He stated that for priming compound they used sulphur mixed with coconut shell carbon and they would fire 80 to 90 % of the time. Powder was from dismantled japanese maritime mine. This powder was too viooolent for use as a propellant so was diluted with pulverized wood fibers. He stated that five rifles were blown up trying to discover the proper formula. Bullets were made by fiing solid brass curtain rods to fit the bores. He states that bullet production never rose above 160 a day.
All this was very hazardous and tedious but worked until they were able to get better weapons. At that time our troops were armed with the 1903 but if I remember correctly the Philippino Scouts carried the 1917 Enfield.
Somewhere I have an old copy of Handloader magazine that describes the experiences of some people that were cut off behind Japanese lines in China. Their weapons were shotguns. Primers were made by removing the anvil and using a punch to remove the indentation. Match heads were used for compound and powder was made from old movie film. Shot was made by hammering lead into flat sheets and then cutting it into small pieces. It sounds crude but kept them eating thooughout the war.
My suggestion is to lay in a large supply of reloading components while you still can. Neil

bhn22
06-11-2011, 11:33 PM
Huh, interesting. Ever try rebuilding a Boxer primer that same way? Wonder if it would work?

We had a thread on this a couple of years ago. A couple of enterprising men did videos on remanufacturing primers. Here's one to get you started.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u7nphPRG6JA

PatMarlin
06-12-2011, 01:36 PM
I don't see how you could put that book down NoDakJak. Wow.

deltaenterprizes
06-12-2011, 04:03 PM
I have been disassembling 22 LR ammo that went through Katrina and the powder looks like Bullseye in some and 231 in others.

shaune509
06-13-2011, 08:40 PM
Speaking of Richardson, I have one of the 'slam-fire' 12ga shotguns that he made under 'Richardson Industries' after the war, paterned after the jungle shotgun he saw in the war. It is a crude simple design that could get you some game for food but the slamfire action has no control of aim and is slow to reload. Never found much info on the company or the guns production, the photo I did find on the net had some differances from my samply that I got new in the box 2 years back.
shaune509

John Boy
06-13-2011, 11:10 PM
I would like to know what powders and in what quantity can be substituted for the .22 powder without blowing something up.
4.0gr of FFFFg or Swiss Null-B black powder - averages ~ 1050 fps with a 40gr bullet

nicholst55
06-13-2011, 11:15 PM
Google 'anarchist cookbook.' IIRC, there are some recipes in there for primer mixtures. I'd include a link, but my .mil LAN won't let me access the material.

nanuk
06-14-2011, 10:22 PM
I have been disassembling 22 LR ammo that went through Katrina and the powder looks like Bullseye in some and 231 in others.

Heh... when I disassemble 22LR ammo, it goes "BANG"

no chance for me to see the powder, other than a little puff of smoke

Chicken Thief
06-16-2011, 03:45 PM
I'm a (way) bit thick, but i don't get this!

A storebought 22LR round costs you something like 4½ cents/pop and you want to spend money on matches/powder/boolit and invest your time?


A squirrel collects in the fat times and stores for the lean.

If you invest half a Bud Light/ 2 fags per working day (@40 cents) then you can sqirrel away 9 22LR shots a day. In a working year (240 days?) that would be 2150 pcs.

I wonder how many you would need during a zombie attack/siegehttp://i295.photobucket.com/albums/mm153/Chickenthief/Blandet/Smilere/anyone.gif

perotter
06-16-2011, 09:19 PM
A storebought 22LR round costs you something like 4½ cents/pop and you want to spend money on matches/powder/boolit and invest your time?




Just to do it. I can punch holes in paper with a paper punch cheaper(and smaller group size I may add) than I can with a rifle also, but normally punch them with a rifle.

perotter
06-16-2011, 09:42 PM
Google 'anarchist cookbook.' IIRC, there are some recipes in there for primer mixtures. I'd include a link, but my .mil LAN won't let me access the material.

One of the simplest primer mixes is potassium chlorate, sulfur & glass. 50,30,20 by weight. I've had 100 mesh sand work well instead of the glass. There are dozens of simple workable primer mixes. A basic form(a nitrate & red phosphorous) of the P4 primer the US military is testing can be a DIY. Even under very primitive conditions.


For a rimfire non-corrosive mix of lead nitrate, lead hypophosphite & glass will work - see G. Frost's book or the the Ely patent it's self.

TooTallDean
09-17-2012, 02:46 AM
I've been sniffing about, looking for info on priming compounds for rimfire because I want to try making my own .41 Swiss ammo.
Yes,,,,,,,,,, I know that there is a centre fire conversion for the Swiss Vetterli rifle, but my gun is all matching and not Bubba'd, and it isnt going to get Bubba'd by my hands!

KCSO
09-21-2012, 11:28 AM
My grandfather ust to reload rimfires that way but he put the cases in a hand drill and spun them to get the priming under the rim better. Remember you are loading corrosive ammo with matchheads so clean it out with water.

uscra112
09-22-2012, 02:49 AM
Just a little story about olden times. About 1961 or '62 a chum of mine had been making paper-tube "rockets" using matchheads for fuel. Somebody suggested he use an empty CO2 cartridge for the rocket body. He did. One of them ignited while he was packing the matchheads in, and it blew most of his hand off.

BTW I was present when he "launched" one or two of those things. He used a piece of 1" water pipe to launch them like a bazooka. The noise was like a 12 gauge, and we never found the "rockets". After he blew himself up, I realized that we all avoided serious injury only because the water pipe contained the shrapnel.

Draw your own conclusions.

jh45gun
09-22-2012, 07:53 AM
I just do not see the need for it as 22 ammo is fairly cheap even at today's inflated prices. Just stock up.

Shiloh
09-29-2012, 09:22 PM
I loaded some boxer primers with caps and found that it works but is far to sensitive as some went off just re installing the anvil in the primer.

I've seen that done as well but with matches as the compound. Never tried it myself. You are making a corrosive primer. Be sure and clean your weapon.
The potassium chlorate converts to chloride, a potassium salt.

Shiloh

Raygun
10-02-2012, 12:04 PM
If you can reload .22lr you can reload anything. ...amazing!

gnoahhh
10-02-2012, 02:25 PM
I read how Wendell Fertig and his Mindanao, Philippines, guerrillas reloaded .30/06's during WWII. They were running low on ammo for the '03 Springfields they were generally armed with, when one day Fertig observed a Filipino trying to clean his rifle with a brass curtain rod. The rod got jammed in the bore, and a light bulb went off in his head. He had the village women round up all the brass curtain rods they could find and had them cut into 1" lengths, and the girls patiently ground points on them using rocks, in the general shape of a bullet. Primers were resurrected using the above described method, with match heads. Powder was a stumbling block until a couple of boys dragged a Japanese sea mine in from the lagoon. They uncorked the mine and dumped out the powder, which they then used as cartridge propellant. They blew up a couple rifles until they got the 'load' worked out. Evidently, recoil was something to behold also.

The whole point of that exercise was to provide ammo to be used in killing Japanese soldiers and then take their rifles and ammo with which to continue the fight. Young Filipino volunteers were admonished to bring their empty '06 brass back with them after a fire fight. If a poor little scared kid forgot to police up his brass, he was made to go back to the ambush site and get it. Those guys took reloading very seriously!

Eventually the U.S. came to their aid and smuggled in 'real' rifles and the '03's were retired. (The 'real' rifles were M1 Carbines, because the submarine smugglers could transport a lot more rounds of .30 Carbine ammo per trip than anything else- space on a submarine being way more precious than weight.)

So endeth your history lesson for today!

MusicMan
10-03-2012, 05:41 AM
I have a Rocky Mountain Arms .22 that uses paper caps to spark black powder to drive a #4 buck into a forcing cone, elongating it into .22 barrel. Seems like this would make a good survival weapon.

I'll Make Mine
10-03-2012, 07:24 AM
I have a Rocky Mountain Arms .22 that uses paper caps to spark black powder to drive a #4 buck into a forcing cone, elongating it into .22 barrel. Seems like this would make a good survival weapon.

If you can keep your caps dry (and make decent black powder), this could serve for many years (and there are a lot of #4 buck in the 8# canister that's the only size I've found for it). Where did you get that piece, and are they still making them?

gnoahhh
10-03-2012, 09:12 AM
The thing is, one is still dependent on store-bought items, be it caps, matches, lead, chemicals, etc., that has to be bought/bartered for ahead of time and stored for possible apocalyptic need. Why not just lay in a big stash of .22LR's and be done with it, thus freeing oneself to worry about more important stuff like how to avoid an apocalyptic event?;) If a few thousand .22's won't get me through a tough time, then maybe I don't want to be around longer to 'enjoy' the world as it will be.

On the other hand, since I was a kid I was fascinated with the possibility of reloading .22's so have found this thread fascinating.

MusicMan
10-03-2012, 03:58 PM
Bought in early 70's I think. A google search came up with this:
Made by Rocky Mountain Arms in the early 70s? They were designed by Dick Casull of .454 Casull fame. They were made in .44, .36, and .22. They loaded from the rear with a swivel breach, not from the front like a normal muzzleloader.
48308
48311

I'll Make Mine
10-03-2012, 08:21 PM
Wow, the granddaddy of in-lines (or the great-great grandson of a Revolutionary War musket with a similar loading setup) -- Ferguson? How did it handle breach sealing? In the 18th century version, that was the failure they could never solve, that kept that design from putting repeaters in the hands of ordinary soldiers 70+ years before the Henry.

bigbore442001
10-29-2012, 01:55 PM
This is an interesting thread. I have thought of reloading 22 lr for one purpose. To make a higher powered 22 lr for sole use in a Ruger Single Six or TC Contender. I hunt on public land and if you hunt at night you are limited to 22 lr due to the laws. Thus I have always wanted to make some specialty 22 lr that has more power.

Ideally I'd like to see a 45 grain semi wadcutter style of bullet at the maximum feasible velocity for raccoon and other game. Maybe I have too much time on my hands.

I'll Make Mine
10-29-2012, 06:12 PM
Bigbore, don't forget you need to have a heeled bullet to work in the .22 LR chambers and barrels -- if you use a modern "inside lube" style, the bullet will be too small to fill the grooves and you'll get poor accuracy and possible leading. Pulling the bullets out of .22 cases to reload them isn't too hard, and I've seen loose .22 bullets in the standard weight with the correct heel (sold for the cap-n-ball version of the tiny NAA revolvers), so stepping up the powder load a little isn't completely impossible -- but it seems like an awful lot of work for the amount of gain; it's probably simpler to get your state's laws changed (say, allowing any .22 bore below an energy figure that matches something like .221 Fireball or .22 K-Hornet).

Edit to add: even a law change to allow any .22 or smaller rimfire for night hunting would be a big help; that would give .22 Magnum as well as .17 Mach 2 and .17 HMR.

nanuk
10-30-2012, 01:47 PM
a gaschecked boolit design would probably work for a heeled boolit, as long as it was not too heavy, requiring a deep chamber.....

OTOH, you could use .22 Longs...