Quieter Deer load ?

[Johnch]

First off I know with out a silencer there will still be enough noise to be loud .

But I need to lower the decible levels as far as I can , and still kill quickly .
This year the @#*&^%@ hit the fan after a hunter on the next farm blasted away with some magnum at sunrise on saturday morning , waking the poor little angles .:twisted:

I just got permission to hunt a family freinds land next year , with the understanding I kill as many doe's as posible
I have not been hunting on the farm in 20 years, but was told it is thick cover and over run with deer .
Will be looking at it early next year , as it is several hours away

Reason I need to reduce the noise , the farm lies between a big subdivision and a town park / town boundry
But there are several hills / ridges to provide a good backstop for a rifle bullet

I will try to get several with the stick and string .
But I want to use cast in something smaller than the 45/70 .
The 45/70 and 50/70 the only rifles I have ever used on deer with cast .

I have rifles and moulds for the 7.62X39 , 303 , 308 , 30-06 , 8 Mauser , soon a 35 Wellen
But would use the 45/70 if needed

I was told by a cousin that a Long shot will be 100 or so yds , because he hunts there

Any sujested places to start ??
I was thinking a faster powder like Unique in the 308 or 303

Thanks

Johnch

[Old Ironsights]

Probably not the best answer for your specific situation, but I shoot a 180gr soft lead bullet out of my .357 M92 Levergun at 500fps or so. It makes less noise than my .177 Crosman Pellet gun. I use 5gr BP-Sub and fill with CoW. It will roll a 'coon or possum.

I'm betting that with a little futzing you could get almost any heavy, long, dead-soft bullet to do the same thing, and I WOULD recommend the .45-70 for that. Put a massive pure lead bullet out of a .45-70 at 900fps and it will still be a heck of a deer killer at 50-75 yds, and be quiet too.

[grumpy one]

The sound from a non-autoloading rifle without a brake or silencer depends on the intensity of the shock wave from the muzzle when the bullet exits, which in turn depends on the gas pressure at release, and the bullet diameter. You can reduce the release pressure, for a given muzzle velocity, by using a faster powder so the bullet acceleration happens early in its transit down the barrel and pressure has subsequently decreased greatly by the time it exits the barrel. You can get some further improvement by using a longer barrel. The third thing you can do is reduce the muzzle velocity, subject to still achieving clean kills - which implies a large wound channel and good shot placement.

Obviously a smaller bore will reduce the noise but it will also reduce the wound channel. You should therefore use the largest feasible meplat, then choose the bore to get the wound channel size you need.

All that stuff is pretty obvious. It boils down to saying if you are a good enough hunter, and the terrain is right, you can presumably use, say, a 30 calibre with a fair amount of mass and a large meplat, with a muzzle velocity of perhaps 1200 fps or even less, produced by the fastest powder that is capable of generating that velocity. Unique sounds like a decent guess to me. However you will have a banana-shaped trajectory so you'll have to do some specific practicing at range estimating and point of impact. You need the bullet to be heavy enough to give you plenty of penetration at that low velocity.

All that doesn't give you the piece of information you mostly need: just how much bullet mass gets you enough penetration? More mass at the same velocity with the same powder type means more noise.

[9.3X62AL]

My 45-70 loads running boolits at 1100 FPS are pretty docile noise-wise, and quite accurate. One element of noise control you exercise with sub-sonic loads is avoidance of the hypersonic CRACK made by bullets breaking "the sound barrier". Even with the slow ball powder (WC-860) duplexed with IMR-4198, I can shoot these comfortably without use of ear protection from the #1's 22" barrel.

I share Ironsides' view that the 45-70 would be my go-to caliber for the venue given, for the reasons he states.

[hydraulic]

One thing to consider are the regulations in that state. In Nebraska, a rifle has to meet a minimum MV (or ME, one or the other) to be legal. Don't recall what it is just now, but a .25-35, my first deer rifle, just makes it over the line with factory ammo.

[waksupi]

Her eon my home range, my .358 Win always sounds loud, as my range lies in a narrow canyon, intensifying the noise a bit. However, in the woods, it is surprisingly quiet, it seems. I am shooting the Bator Hravy, at 277 gr, and around 2100 fps. Maybe I am just more deaf than I thought?

[wills]

Johnch, if you can wait about an hour, Old Ironsights will post some informative links for you!

[jhalcott]

John, I know what you mean by quiet loads! I shot some deer IN a group of houses On/around a golf course. People were complaining about decorative plants being devoured by deer.I used a 7tc/u carbine and 174 grain bullets at ranges of 4 FEET to maybe 30 yards to take them. One was shot from under a pickup(me under the truck) while it ate the bushes along the driveway. My Velocity was under 1100 fps .Noise was BARELY an issue. I do think the 45-70 would serve YOU better as I had a few runners even though hit perfectly. My alloy was 1/2ww and lead

[Timberlake]

John,

2400 at 20 grns is very quiet and puts a 500 grn lead bullet out at 925fps in a 45-70. It is also very accurate.

TL

[Old Ironsights]

Read this series:

HOW TO HANDLOAD SUBSONIC RIFLE CARTRIDGES (and survive)

http://guns.connect.fi/gow/arcane1.html
http://guns.connect.fi/gow/arcane2.html
http://guns.connect.fi/gow/arcane3.html

Good stuff there.

(duh, of course Wills already posted this link... [smilie=1: :drinks: )

[NickSS]

I have used around 15 gr of Unique in either a 30-06 or 8mm Mauser with good luck. The bullet used was a Lyman 311041 in the 06 and a Lyman 165 gr in the mauser. Both have good penetration and when made with 50-50 wheel weights and soft lead they expand quite well. This load produces around 1500 to 1600 fps (my guess) and will go through a 12 inch thick tree at 30 yards. I have not killed deer with it as my states hunting regs requires a retained energy of 900 foot pounds minimum at 100 yards for big game hunting and I am not sure this load produces that. If I was to want a light load for deer I would use a 45-70 loaded with a 330 gr hp bullet and 15 gr of Unique. This load will give about 1300 fps and is very mild on the ears and recoil wise.

[MGySgt]

It wasn't too long ago that Ranch Dog had a group buy of a 360 PB .460 that should be just about perfect for a light load, both in noise and recoil with Unique or 2400.

I haven't used this mold yet, but maybe I need to prep it and get to casting some of them to try it.

Another project to keep me busy and out of trouble on my road to rehab!

Drew

[Bass Ackward]

Another project to keep me busy and out of trouble on my road to rehab! Drew


Drew,

And we are glad to have you still participating.

Do us all a favor and cut back on the ******.

[Leftoverdj]

What you got with the longest barrel? Barrel length can greatly reduce noise level because pressure and hence gas velocity drops off before the bullet exists. 12-13 grains of Unique with a 405 grain cast bullet is reasonably quiet in a 22" barrel, but the 32" barrel of the Buffalo Classic would reduce even that substantially. One of the Mausers with the 29" barrel would be a natural choice.

Grumpy is dead on about fast powders. It's the gas that makes makes the noise, and the fast powders create less gas and the pressure drops far more before the bullet exits. That might make the 7.62x39 a reasonable choice because it takes so little powder.

[redneckdan]

i would use the .45/70 with the biggest boolit I could get my hands on.

[MGySgt]

Drew,

Do us all a favor and cut back on the ******.

I am still as weak as a new born pup and I have to be careful how I expend what little bit of energy I do have.

Vaigra goes with something that I think I have just about forgotten about.

[AZ-Stew]

Johnch,

A number of years ago, I wrote an article for "Handloader" (Issue 157) on light centerfire loads for squirrel hunting using J-bullets. One of my goals was loads that were relatively quiet. While other aspects of my loads were not compatible with your needs (i.e., small caliber and no bullet expansion), I believe the powder I found most useful may also be of use to you.

The powder that produced the least noise in my load development experiments was SR (now IMR) 7625 (gray can). On the IMR Powders web site you'll find many handgun and shotshell loads for this powder. Depending on the application, it will produce good velocity with low pressure. It also is more bulky than Unique in loads that produce similar velocities, frequently resulting in improved accuracy, again, depending on the application.

As others have said, since you'll likely be using reduced velocity loads, you'll need to work with large diameter bullets. Unfortunately, these are more prone to ricochet, so be careful and pay attention to what's beyond your target. I'd go with a very soft bullet and enhance it with a drilled hollow point to increase the possibility of expansion. These features will also cause bullet deformation on impact with other objects, resulting in a very non-aerodynamic shape that will not travel as far in a ricochet situation.

Good luck. Keep us advised of your successes and failures.

Regards,

Stew

[waksupi]

I am still as weak as a new born pup and I have to be careful how I expend what little bit of energy I do have.

Vaigra goes with something that I think I have just about forgotten about.

Drew, it will keep you from rolling out of bed!

[canuck4570]

I use a 575 grain bullet ( paul jones mold ) with 27 gr of H 4198 at 1175 fps and just great

[Larry Gibson]

I do in fact have a silencer, actually a suppressor, and have done quite a bit of work with it and others over the last 30 years. The two things that make noise you need to attenuate are the muzzle blast and the sonic crack of the bullet. Size does matter in both. Both of these increase muzzle blast, i.e. higher muzzle exit pressure, and of course increase the noise level; a large volume of gas created by a large powder charge and high pressure loads. The second thing that creates quite a bit of noise is the sonic crack of the bullet. We, as shooters, most often don't hear this as the muzzle blast masks the sonic crack to us. Your neighbors will hear it though. So the solution is to use faster burning powders in smaller amounts keeping pressures low in large chambers through long barrels keeping the bullets at a subsonic velocity.

I'd suggest the .35 Whelen. Cast some 200+ gr bullets of dead soft lead. Bullets should have a meplat. HP slightly with the Forster tool if available. Load over just enough Bullseye or Unique to achieve not more than 1050 fps. Zero point of aim point of impact at 75 yards and go hunting. Do not use the "behind the shoulder" shot as deer can go a long way just lung shot. Either use head shot or put the bullet through the heart (sits low in the chest BETWEEN the front legs) regardless of the angle. Also, unless head shots are used don't hesitate to shoot the deer more than once. With these loads, as with your bow, you can eat up to the bullet hole.

I have used a very similar load in the 8x57 and the .35 Remington (M91 w/26" barrel) with very good success on blacktail deer. These bullets retain enough velocity and momentum that expansion and penetration are excellent at the 100 and less yard ranges you are talking about.

Larry Gibson

[Ricochet]

In the 8mm, which is widely and inexpensively available in 28" barreled Mausers such as the Turkish ones, I'd suggest the big 8mm Maximum, which casts at ~250 grains for me, or the 8mm Karabiner which is the same thing with a slightly shorter nose, both of which are available at Midsouth Shooters' Supply. The Maximum has been shooting very accurately from my long Mausers at about 1800 FPS over 37 grains of IMR 7383, which is about as loud as a standard .30-30. I haven't tried any reduced velocity loads with the fast pistol powders, but I'm sure they could be made to shoot and work well. A 250 grain bullet at just subsonic speed is comparable to hunting loads in pistol calibers such as .45 Colt and .44 Magnum, and the rifle bullet with its higher sectional density would actually have an advantage in penetration, though those pistol rounds penetrate plenty.

I haven't heard any supersonic bullets fired from a suppressed firearm. How loud is the bullet's crack? Say, like a .22LR shot?

I just got to fire a suppressed .22LR, an AR-15 type shooting subsonic ammo. All I heard was the action cycling.

[Johnch]

Thanks
I think I have enough time to work up a load or 2 :-D

Stoot I just might go back to the 50/70 with a 500 gr bullet at 1000 fps , cast from 30-1

I know it knocks the snot out of deer , just have to see how loud it is .

Johnch

[grumpy one]

I just got to fire a suppressed .22LR, an AR-15 type shooting subsonic ammo. All I heard was the action cycling.


Many years ago, before they were prohibited here, I tried a silenced 22 LR with subsonic ammunition. The rifle was an autoloader with a manual breech lock. Fired with the breech locked, I couldn't hear any difference between firing live and dry-firing the rifle, though there was a loud thud from whatever the bullet hit. Many autoloaders, especially pistols, make a considerable bang from the breech, due to residual pressure when the case is extracted - which is the reason to use a locked-breech rifle, not an autoloader. However if the breech-block is heavy enough the breech pressure is negligible when the case is extracted. The British had some success with their WW II 9 mm Stens in silenced form, using special subsonic loads, because that firearm had a 16 ounce breech-block - the heavy mass being necessary to keep the cyclic rate down to the desired level. They also reworked some 22 pistols with silencers, and those seem to have been effective as well, but the modifications seem to have been quite extensive from a photograph I've seen. I did once try an early Colt Woodsman 22 pistol with the same type of silencer I tried on the rifle, and it was by no means effective - subjectively the bang from the breech sounded as loud as an unsilenced firearm, though of course a sound level measurement would have shown something different. Nevertheless the pistol was certainly not quiet.

[35remington]

I understand that these should be intended for lever action or stronger only:

13 grains Red Dot, 1120 fps w/405 grain cast plainbase.
16 grains Unique, 1260 fps with same 405 grain bullet.

I think the hollow point idea would work well with a soft lead bullet for closer shots. I suppose it would also depend upon the size of the hollow in the point.

These are about as quiet as it gets, with enough velocity to open the bullet some at close ranges.

Report, to my ears, is more of a "kapum!" than a sharp crack. Shot from a 22 inch barrelled Marlin.

[felix]

Drop the velocity to below 1100 and any kind of crack (that you cannot hear at the bench) will be non-existant to any bystander, game or otherwise. That crack really disturbs most creatures not accustomed to it. One way to hear what it sounds like is to stand about 20 feet away from the target at 100 yards and have someone shoot a full bore condom. The boom sounds muffled at that distance, but the crack is a genuine crack that cannot be mistaken. ... felix

[35remington]

Good point, Felix. Always possible to adjust the load downward until you drop below that sound threshold.

[Tristan]

I do in fact have a silencer, actually a suppressor, and have done quite a bit of work with it and others over the last 30 years. The two things that make noise you need to attenuate are the muzzle blast and the sonic crack of the bullet. Size does matter in both. Both of these increase muzzle blast, i.e. higher muzzle exit pressure, and of course increase the noise level; a large volume of gas created by a large powder charge and high pressure loads. The second thing that creates quite a bit of noise is the sonic crack of the bullet. We, as shooters, most often don't hear this as the muzzle blast masks the sonic crack to us. Your neighbors will hear it though. So the solution is to use faster burning powders in smaller amounts keeping pressures low in large chambers through long barrels keeping the bullets at a subsonic velocity.

I'd suggest the .35 Whelen. Cast some 200+ gr bullets of dead soft lead. Bullets should have a meplat. HP slightly with the Forster tool if available. Load over just enough Bullseye or Unique to achieve not more than 1050 fps. Zero point of aim point of impact at 75 yards and go hunting. Do not use the "behind the shoulder" shot as deer can go a long way just lung shot. Either use head shot or put the bullet through the heart (sits low in the chest BETWEEN the front legs) regardless of the angle. Also, unless head shots are used don't hesitate to shoot the deer more than once. With these loads, as with your bow, you can eat up to the bullet hole.

I have used a very similar load in the 8x57 and the .35 Remington (M91 w/26" barrel) with very good success on blacktail deer. These bullets retain enough velocity and momentum that expansion and penetration are excellent at the 100 and less yard ranges you are talking about.

Larry Gibson

Larry, that sounds like sage advice, and just what I've been looking for. Any recommendations for a good 8mm mould? I see Lee has one IIRC at about 175grs... but no meplat.

Just tonight I loaded up some 30WCF with a commercial cast 165gr. using 10gr. Unique to test. My old RCBS cast bullet loading guide pegs that load at a little over 1500, so that'll be one that produces a 'crack', for sure.

[MGySgt]

Drew, it will keep you from rolling out of bed!

Ric,

You have got to be kidding - I don't suppose you have ever had your sternum split open and then wired closed - I can't lay on my side let alone roll over!

Been sleeping in my recliner since I got home from the hospital!

Drew

[waksupi]

Ric,

You have got to be kidding - I don't suppose you have ever had your sternum split open and then wired closed - I can't lay on my side let alone roll over!

Been sleeping in my recliner since I got home from the hospital!

Drew

Drew, not quite, but have had a steering column driven into my sternum at high speed. So understand the sleeping upright thing!
Just danged happy to see you are able to sit up!

[OLPDon]

This question not online with noise reduction But I noticed when hunting shotgun slugs and Hunting with Black Powder Muzzle loader (round ball 54 cal.) The reaction from deer differ. With BP deer seem to freeze not knowing which way to run example I have taken 2 deer one after the other reloading after knocking down first and able to reload muzzle loader with (speed loader) even though speed loader increases shot to shot efectiveness it still takes time. When taking a buck others don't seem to know which way to run. As for shotgun slugs they are gone in a blink of a eye. Can't use rifle in NJ for Hunting so don't have any comparison on that. Just wondering if any here had similar experiences. My guess it that the sound is a booming one and doesn't have the same sound wave to define exact location and/or perhaps the smoke hides human form. The Muzzle loader which I have been doing for more yrs I care to remember this has not been a isolated thing this pretty much the same over the years. Any thoughts on this.
Don

[Bret4207]

Around here the deer jackers gun of choice is a long barreled Marlin 22 Mag and the biggest spot light they can find. Since you aren't looking in that direction, I'd say get the heaviest boolit you have for your longest barreled rifle and aim for the slowest speed it'll stabilize at with the fastest powder you feel comfortable with. My 8mm Karibiner with 13.0 Red Dot gives a no crack, just a boom. The 7.65 Argie with 29" barrel gives a quiet "pow" sound with 13.0 Red Dot and the Fat 30. The 8mm has a 24" barrel, so going by that I'd say a longer barrel is quieter. I'd take a deer with either up to 50-75 yards. At 100 yards I'd have to look at the drop and recover a few boolits to judge things. Either way you aren't going to have "shoot and drop" typr kills I would think.

[T-Bird]

I like the .44 and .45colt rifles loaded to 1100fps for deer. They don't use as much lead or powder as 500gr 45/70 ,aren't very loud, and will drop a deer in a NY minute. T-Bird

[felix]

T-Bird, what are your typical distances? Ever do one at 125-150 yards with those loads? ... felix

[Wayne Smith]

Larry, that sounds like sage advice, and just what I've been looking for. Any recommendations for a good 8mm mould? I see Lee has one IIRC at about 175grs... but no meplat.

.

Oldfellars Maximum and/or Karibiner at Midsouth. Go to their website and go to custom moulds. Single cavity Lee molds, buy two(!) I've cast the Karibiner in two metal configuration in this mould without any problem.

[Ricochet]

As for the Lee 175 grain 8mm (a tub of which I have sitting next to me), it's really not as much a round nose as a very blunt semi-spitzer. The nose is sort of a steep tapered cone with rounded tip. I don't think it's well designed as a hunting bullet unless cast soft enough to expand. The shape is somewhat reminiscent of the .30 Carbine military load, not well known for its great stopping power.

Back to the "crack" of supersonic bullets, has anyone here listened to a passing bullet with a big flat meplat and a spitzer at the same speed to see if there's a noticeable difference? Seems like a pointy, long tapered shape that fits well inside the shock wave cone would disturb the air much less than a flat meplat or round nose.

I haven't tried standing to one side of a 100 yard target and listening. I'd have to have a very trusted friend doing the shooting, and it'd have to be done quite surreptitiously as it would be a violation of range safety rules.

I understand that the crack of the bullet's supersonic shock wave is a lot more difficult to localize the direction of fire from than the muzzle blast is. That's a reason for snipers using suppressors with supersonic rifle loads. Might have something to do with the above noted confusion of the deer when shot with the .54 caliber ball as opposed to the shotgun slug, if the slug was arriving subsonic and the ball was supersonic.

[Tristan]

I'll check into those moulds... why do you recommend two? Casting speed, or to pick which one does the best job?

- Tristan

ETA: just checked them out - look pretty good.

Have we ever had a plain based version of one of those designs as a group buy?

[nelsonted1]

Paco Kelly used to write on all the popular rifle calibers using light loads with cast bullets. I searched for them a year ago and couldn't find them. I have one in my computer. IT's pretty long to post here.

Here's two. The second is on ultra low speed loads.

http://www.recguns.com/Sources/VIIE7.html

http://yarchive.net/gun/ammo/lowpower.html

[44man]

It always amazes me that silencers are legal in some countries so you don't disturb people but guns themselves are taboo and hard to own or shoot.
I seen some plans to legally extend a shotgun barrel to ridiculous lengths to make the gun real quiet. Should quiet the muzzle blast on a rifle and as long as the round was subsonic, noise would be low.
I have shot a lot of deer with my super loud big bore revolvers and the other deer never ran off, only the one I hit. It happened again this year. I have always been of the opinion that gunfire does not bother them much but a supersonic bullet passing them will. So will a missed shot that hits close to them. I have spent half a day shooting 100 yd's with high power rifles with a herd of deer bedded at my 200 yd bench. They didn't get up until I decided to shoot from there. I have had deer walk past at 30 yd's while I sighted guns. Gunfire only bothers people!
My solution is to get rid of the people and make them move back to the city.

[AZ-Stew]

If you've ever worked the butts on a military rifle range, you know what the supersonic crack of a bullet sounds like. Sounds just like a whip crack.

I read once that when Maxim started working with suppressors, he fired a 30-06 parallel to a road that had telephone (telegraph?) poles along it. There was no muzzle blast, but bystanders could hear the echo of the supersonic crack reflected off each of the poles that the bullet passed by.

I also agree with 44man about the reaction of game to the sound of gunshots. I thought I was the only one who had observed this. It happens with squirrels, as well as deer.

Regards,

Stew

[Larry Gibson]

Larry, that sounds like sage advice, and just what I've been looking for. Any recommendations for a good 8mm mould? I see Lee has one IIRC at about 175grs... but no meplat.

Just tonight I loaded up some 30WCF with a commercial cast 165gr. using 10gr. Unique to test. My old RCBS cast bullet loading guide pegs that load at a little over 1500, so that'll be one that produces a 'crack', for sure.

Tristan

Looks like you've found a couple good moulds. I mentioned the Forster HP (works with their trimmer) as any RN/FP bullet can be HP'd a lot or slightly and made more effective. Try your 30-30 with 165 gr bullet over 5 - 6 gr of Bullseye, should be subsonic in there some where.

Larry Gibson

[Leftoverdj]

An old poacher once told me that it's the second shot that gets you in trouble. His theory was that a distant muffled shot does not register strongly on most people, but they are listening for the second shot and have a good idea of direction and distance on that one.

I think that is solidly applicable to this discussion. Inside a house much more than a hundred yards away, the loads we have been talking about are not going to register as a gunshot to most people who are not listening for a shot. The brain is gonna treat it as an unexplained distant noise, but not a threat. It sure ain't gonna wake up and alarm sleeping people. Might rouse a few, but if it's not repeated, they won't know what woke them, and they'll be back asleep in a minute or two.

[Leftoverdj]

As for the Lee 175 grain 8mm (a tub of which I have sitting next to me), it's really not as much a round nose as a very blunt semi-spitzer. The nose is sort of a steep tapered cone with rounded tip. I don't think it's well designed as a hunting bullet unless cast soft enough to expand. The shape is somewhat reminiscent of the .30 Carbine military load, not well known for its great stopping power.

Easily fixed, Ricochet. Use the pedestal from a pushthrough sizing die to run the bullet up into a .38 Special seating die w/ a SWC top punch in it to swage about a 50% meplat. At least some die/bullet combinations will adjust enough to give the desired meplat at the end of the press stroke giving total repeatability. Effect on accuracy is insignificant for hunting purposes.

[Tristan]

Easily fixed, Ricochet. Use the pedestal from a pushthrough sizing die to run the bullet up into a .38 Special seating die w/ a SWC top punch in it to swage about a 50% meplat. At least some die/bullet combinations will adjust enough to give the desired meplat at the end of the press stroke giving total repeatability. Effect on accuracy is insignificant for hunting purposes.

That's a great idea! How's it effect the concentricity and diameter of the boolit?

I have some old roof flashing recycled (read: scavenged) from a local scrap dealer. That stuff is s o f t, and I've heard the joints are high in tin. Think that'd be a good candidate for these soft-n-slow loads?

I suppose after you get the die set properly, you could save one of the meplat-formed boolits to use as a setup gauge for next time...

[Ricochet]

I was pushing one in to try in my rifle and find the proper seating depth, when I let it tip and hit the base of the die. Made a meplat on that one.

Random thought: I wonder if the decapping pin in a sizing die works as a hollowpointer?

[T-Bird]

Felix, sorry i,m late getting back to you. I usually shoot my 45 colt rifle when I anticipate shooting no more than maybe 60yds. I use it like an easier to shoot well pistol. I load my Ruger Bisley to the same speed and have had good luck with the RCBS .45SAA on deer. Obviously, takes hotter load for the pistol and 1100fps.I guess, if i wanted to shoot farther, it would be no trick to load the rifle hotter for trajectory sake but if I start doing that, then my 45/70 that I have loaded to 1375fps is going to get mad. I'ts hard keeping safe full of guns happy! They all want to hunt all the time! Shoot Straight, T-Bird

[Wayne Smith]

I'll check into those moulds... why do you recommend two? Casting speed, or to pick which one does the best job?

- Tristan

ETA: just checked them out - look pretty good.

Have we ever had a plain based version of one of those designs as a group buy?

I said buy two simply because they are not the most robust molds made. No, no group buy because the bullet is too long for the six cavity block.

[felix]

T-Bird, I know that dilema well. Should any neighboor kid took a genuine liking to one of my guns that does not get shot enough, he would receive a Christmas present. Kids today just don't seem to have enough interest in any kind of gun. Why, I don't know, but I think it has nothing to do with politics. Prolly not the same excitement in practice as the computer games they play. ... felix

[9.3X62AL]

T-Bird, I know that dilema well. Should any neighboor kid took a genuine liking to one of my guns that does not get shot enough, he would receive a Christmas present. Kids today just don't seem to have enough interest in any kind of gun. Why, I don't know, but I think it has nothing to do with politics. Prolly not the same excitement in practice as the computer games they play. ... felix

Ya want kids to get addicted to shooting? REACTION TARGETS. Charcoal briquets with 22's. Dinger plates. Steel silhuetas. Trap/skeet/informal clays with 410 or 28 gauge shotgun. Kids from 7 to 18 LOVE that stuff--games don't make real noise like real guns do. And boys get PISSED when girls whup 'em at gun games, too.

[T-Bird]

Felix, I started taking my son hunting when he was old enough to walk like my father did me. Never got him to care anything about guns or hunting, or fishing for that matter.He is 20 now, in school, and sure enough what does he want for Christmas?-Wii the latest Nintendo system. I have a theory that these things are a major cause of all this A.D.D. that kids have now days.But thats just me talking. Shoot straight, T-Bird

[45r]

8.7 grains power pistol and 270 SAA rcbs in 45 colt with a high shoulder shot and your deer wont take another step with rifle or handgun.This load goes 980 fps in my new frontier and a little better in my redhawk.I live in an area where if your deer gets very far somebody else could be blasting away and ruining the meat.This load is cheap and quiet works very well from a treestand.

[John F.]

One thing to consider when you are working up your load, is that what you hear from behind the rifle is quite different from what people hear off to the side. Once you arrive at a load that is appropriate, you might want to have a friend fire the rifle while you stand some distance off to the side, so you get a true picture of how loud it is to "ear witnesses."

John

[HEAD0001]

I have been playing around with quiet loads for the last 6 months. I have done alot of research, and reading about "Cat Sneeze" loads, or "Gallery Loads".
I have come to the folowing conclusions:
1. Barrel length-the longer the better.
2. Heavy for caliber bullets.
3. Fast burning powder.

I am using an 1885 Browning. Caliber is 45-70. For a totally quiet load(I can hear the hammer drop), I load 3.0 grains of Red Dot, and a .454 roundball. Great small game load, and accurate out to 35 yards. This load would be too light for deer.

For deer I would go with 45-70 caliber. 500 grain Postell style bullet. I would try to achieve 900-1000 fps. A custom TC Encore barrel in 30 inch length would be great. 32 inch would be better. It is very easy to load up a light load in a single shot, just make sure you check the barrel every time before you shoot. It is also alot of fun. Tom.:castmine:

[lovedogs]

I've found my .45-70 with lead bullets and fast powders to be real easy on the ears. Anything with low gas pressures when exiting the bbl. will be quiet. That's why slow loads with fast burning powders in a big bore with a long bbl. are so quiet.

[trooperdan]

Question for those of you loading round balls in .45-70; do you seat the ball with the maximum diameter at the case mouth or seated down on the powder? I've just loaded a few with the ball seated down but haven't tried them yet.