Problems with pure lead

[Tatume]

Hello Folks,

For many years now I’ve been casting bullets from wheel weights. I consider myself fairly good at it. Now I’ve started casting pure lead for a Parker-Hale Volunteer and a 16-bore British round ball gun. What a challenge!

The biggest problem I’m having is excess slag. It gets to where I have to skim the pot after every pour (I use a ladle). The bottom-pour RCBS ladle clogs, the slag on the surface gets deep, and the process drags along.

The slag can be pressed against the side of the pot to squeeze the lead out, and a brown powder remains. Does anybody know what that powder is? Can you tell me what is going on here? Any pure lead casters, help please?

Thanks, Tom

[JIMinPHX]

Are you fluxing your lead before you cast with it? If so, what do you flux with? How hot do you run your pot?

[runfiverun]

it's oxides, you can skim and flux a pot of pure into non existence.
use a cover to the alloy [is it an alloy if nothing else is in it?] to keep the oxygen out.
yeah you'll get it in the ladle, but it pours out again.

[Doc Highwall]

You have to cast pure lead with a higher temperature which causes more oxidation this is where a bottom pour pot is handy. Flux the hell out of it then throw enough sawdust or wood chips on top to form a layer to keep the oxygen away from the lead. Some people use kitty litter or speedy dry.

[blasternank]

Tagged for future reference. Good pointers. Thanks.

[williamwaco]

What are you using for flux? You didn't answer that question.
That brown powder sounds like the residue from the smokless fluxing agents.

That stuff creates a massive amount of crud which leads you to flux more which creates even more crud "Brown Powder". Until I figured that out, I was scraping an eighth inch coating of brown powder off the sides of my pot after about three sessions.

Now I use nothing but pariffin or candle wax. Stiring with a paint stick works well but the smoke burns my nose. I also find that most fluxing instruction seriously under estimate the amount of stirring required. When I melt a new pot from lead not already known to be clean, I flux it repeatedly until no more crud comes up. Usually takes three to five fluxes stiring agressively.

Aggressive stirring is required, you are not making tea. Note - you need at least a full inch of space above the melt to prevent it from splashing out of the pot when you stir it.

Doc Highwall may have the best answer. When I started casting over 50 years ago, the experts recommended a layer of charcoal crushed into a powder on top of the melt to prevent oxidation. It worked but it was way too much trouble. A ten pound bottom pour pot is empty long before oxidation becomes a problem.

If your problem is the crud from the smokless fluxes, covering the surface will not help.


Also note that I have never cast a pure lead bullet in my life. I use only wheel weights and linotype.

[Longwood]

What are you using for flux? You didn't answer that question.
That brown powder sounds like the residue from the smokless fluxing agents.

That stuff creates a massive amount of crud which leads you to flux more which creates even more crud "Brown Powder". Until I figured that out, I was scraping an eighth inch coating of brown powder off the sides of my pot after about three sessions.

Now I use nothing but pariffin or candle wax. Stiring with a paint stick works well but the smoke burns my nose. I also find that most fluxing instruction seriously under estimate the amount of stirring required. When I melt a new pot from lead not already known to be clean, I flux it repeatedly until no more crud comes up. Usually takes three to five fluxes stiring agressively.

Aggressive stirring is required, you are not making tea. Note - you need at least a full inch of space above the melt to prevent it from splashing out of the pot when you stir it.

Doc Highwall may have the best answer. When I started casting over 50 years ago, the experts recommended a layer of charcoal crushed into a powder on top of the melt to prevent oxidation. It worked but it was way too much trouble. A ten pound bottom pour pot is empty long before oxidation becomes a problem.

If your problem is the crud from the smokless fluxes, covering the surface will not help.


Also note that I have never cast a pure lead bullet in my life. I use only wheel weights and linotype.
I have had the printed paint stir stick spits and spew lead when they were inserted into the pot. Brand new from HD but I guess they had some sort of moisture in them.

[Tatume]

Since I've been asked twice, I use LBT Soft Blue bullet lube for flux most of the time, because it's handy and doesn't burst into flames. Other times I use parafin, but it does flame, so I prefer the Soft Blue. Both do a good job of fluxing. When the wood in my shop weeps, the pine resin also does a good job of fluxing.

I have ordered a bottom pour pot.

Take care, Tom

[plainsman456]

I have used boolit lube,paraffin and sawdust.
Sawdust does the best I think.And It makes one think of BBQ.

[Doc Highwall]

I have used the wooden paint sticks along with old wooden spoons and pieces of scrap wood along with wood shavings. Having cats I keep the plastic kitty litter buckets for the wood shavings to help keep them dry. You have to watch out for moisture being absorbed by the wood and when slowly lowering the wooden stick into the lead if I feel it vibrating I stop because that is the moisture being boiled off and when the vibration stops I will continue to lower it till I get to the bottom of the pot. The wood works great but watch out for the moisture.

[44man]

Pure lead will oxidize faster then an alloy. Even though I run my pot hot for pure, I get just normal junk on top and wax works as good as anything even though pure needs no flux at all because you have nothing to mix in.
Your pure round balls will oxidize fast in storage too so spray them with a rust preventative.
Alloyed boolits almost never oxidize. Even some tin in pure will keep them in good shape.

[454PB]

This is one of the reasons that I seldom dipper cast.

I use Marvelux for fluxing, and a bottom draw pot. I flux and stir, then LEAVE the dross on top as an oxygen barrier. When the pot drops to the point where it needs either refilling or I am done casting, I skim off the dross for disposal.

If you dipper cast and use the method above, you're constantly opening up the top of the melt for oxygen exposure.

I'm well aware that 90% of the casters on this forum don't like Marvelux, but I've been using the stuff for 30 years with good results and NO smoking fumes from fluxing. Yes, it does attract and retain moisture as it clings to any stirring object. I always preheat my stirrer, and even those that don't use Marvelux should be doing that.

The old wives tale about Marvelux rusting out your pot is not true......my oldest Lee bottom pour has been used with it for 30 years.

[*Paladin*]

I have used the wooden paint sticks along with old wooden spoons and pieces of scrap wood along with wood shavings. Having cats I keep the plastic kitty litter buckets for the wood shavings to help keep them dry. You have to watch out for moisture being absorbed by the wood and when slowly lowering the wooden stick into the lead if I feel it vibrating I stop because that is the moisture being boiled off and when the vibration stops I will continue to lower it till I get to the bottom of the pot. The wood works great but watch out for the moisture.

When I first started casting, that vibration scared the cr*p outta me:mrgreen:. It took me a few to realize that is was the moisture.

[Tatume]

Since I started using a bottom pour pot for casting soft lead my bullets have improved. Today I added a bit of tin (about four ounces) to a full 20-lb pot of pure lead. These bullets turned out wonderfully. Out of 86 bullets, only four had any flaws at all, and they are too good to not shoot!

http://i252.photobucket.com/albums/hh7/Moscheutos/100_0889.jpg

These are Lyman 451114 bullets for the muzzle-loading Parker Hale Volunteer rifle. Loaded with 90 gr (by weight) of FFFg blackpowder these 450 gr bullets make 1300 fps and two-inch groups at 100 yards, with the factory iron sights. I'm delighted with the gun and the bullets.

It was bright out, sorry about the glare.

Take care, Tom

[largom]

Success = Happiness

[Topper]

Paraffin and candle wax for flux.
I learned about using saw dust and a wooden paint paddle here, works great;)

[white eagle]

can almost see your big smile in the reflection

[lwknight]

Fluxing is for saving alloy , not making the melt look pretty.
The crud will only get so thick and then be sealed off from oxygen.
Bottom pour rules. Quit skimming..

[para45lda]

Not to hijack but I bought a bundle of grade stakes from home depot or Lowes and have been using them to stir with. Heavier than the paint stirrer (1*2) so it may be too big for your pot. Fantastic for smelting though.

My .02 and sorry to get off topic.

Wes

[onondaga]

When you are using wax for a flux for pure lead it is also a temperature indicator. If your lead is not hot to burst the wax into flame, your lead is not hot enough to be fluxed or to cast with easily when you are using pure lead.

Gary

[res45]

Tatume,nice looking bullets and great shooting in a BP rifles. I love big fat lead boolits,I have to get me a hand held artillery piece one of these days.

[Tatume]

Success = Happiness


can almost see your big smile in the reflection

:-)

Thanks, Tom

[geargnasher]

"Pure" lead will do all sorts of interesting things, I've gotten acrid yellow flaky stuff and rusty dust out of different batches, if there isn't any tin in there to provide an oxide barrier to the surface of the lead, lead will oxidize in ways you aren't used to seeing.

IMO, the BEST thing to do is flux with a resiny sawdust, or use dry pine sawdust and add some candle wax, boolit lube, or whatever. The sawdust will actually FLUX the alloy, absorbing things that are considered impurities to boolit casters while preserving those things that aren't, and it will also reduce the oxidized lead back into elemental metal. The purpose of using a wax/grease/oil is purely to reduce the oxides, so wax and sawdust together do the whole job. Sawdust alone is sufficent, though, especially if there is some softwood sap present. This is scientific fact, not opinion or conjecture, and it's brought to us by a Ph, D. chemist by the name of Glen Fryxell, and a complete article on the subject is available for reading on the LASC dot US website.

Get your BP pot going and full of lead, put a 1/4" layer of sawdust on top, stir and scrape the sides and bottom with a long-handled teaspoon, then stir/mix with a dry stick (making CERTAIN to not touch the bottom of the pot with the stick, since it will slough off ash underneath the melt and it will come out the spout, making little pits and inclusions in your boolits!!!), and just leave the smoldering pile on top and forget about it. It will burn down, making the oxides metallic again, capture and hold impurites, and leave an oxide-barrier of ash on top of the melt that won't require skimming until it's time to add more metal. Save your sprues in a pile and add them back when you refill the pot, don't add them in as you go because they sink to the bottom and take their oxide skins with them, again trapping junk under the melt that will migrate to the spout and make pits/inclusions in your boolits.

Gear

[prs]

Gear,

Ya just told me why I get crud in my boolits when I stir with a wood paddle. I learned to follow-up with a vigerous stir with a metal spatula after the wood so as not to get the black boogers on/in my pills. I have been using the wooden paddle to scrape the sides and bottom! Will change my errant ways.

prs

[jandbn]

I was supposedly given the last small lead slug made by a lead smelting facility in MO. The facility stopped producing small slugs and started selling by the ton, thus the last small slug. The slug was about three inches in diameter and 6-7 inches long. One end looked like normal oxidized pure lead. The other end of the slug was really porous and full of inclusions (top of the pour).

When I smelted the slug down, about 1/3 of it was the "red rust" mention in earlier posts. Before even adding saw dust, there were a couple 1 inch solid red rust chunks that came to the top and a bunch of smaller chunks and "dust". I also saw some of the yellow stuff that Gear mentioned. I was surprised by the size of some of the chunks. I could not see any of the chunks, dust, or yellow stuff when prior to melting the slug. The top of the slug was just a lot darker looking than the normal oxidized lead on the bottom half of the slug. It took a lot of saw dust to get the lead slug fluxed clean when compared to the little bit used for wheel weights.