21 Shot Blackpowder group

[HPT]

Not your ordinary 21 shot group:

GUN/LOAD
38-55 Oliver F. Winchester
Open sights
250 gr. Lee bullet
42 gr. Goex FFG
1225 FPS
29" Bullet drop from 100 yds to 200yds

CONDITIONS
60 degrees F
5-10 mph wind (right to left)
1 shot @100 yds
1 shot @105 yds .7" drop
1 shot @110 yds 1.5" drop
1 shot @115 yds 2.3" drop
1 shot @120 yds 3.2" drop
1 shot @125 yds 4.2" drop
1 shot @130 yds 5.3" drop
1 shot @135 yds 6.4" drop
1 shot @140 yds 7.6" drop
1 shot @145 yds 9.0" drop
1 shot @150 yds 10.3" drop
1 shot @155 yds 11.8" drop
1 shot @160 yds 13.4" drop
1 shot @165 yds 15.0" drop
1 shot @170 yds 16.7" drop
1 shot @175 yds 18.5" drop
1 shot @180 yds 20.4" drop
1 shot @185 yds 22.4" drop
1 shot @190 yds 24.5" drop
1 shot @195 yds 26.6" drop
1 shot @200 yds 28.9" drop

http://i191.photobucket.com/albums/z41/VonN_photos/IMG_0321.jpg

Normal 10-shot 100 yd group is approx. 3"

100-200 yd Group measures 3.625 verical (adjusted sight for elevation) X 6.75 horizontal (Did not aim over for windage)

No deer (or jackrabbit) is safe within 200 yds :cry:

[nicholst55]

That's an interesting - and revealing - way to shoot a group! I think it's also a darn good idea!

[Bret4207]

I gotta say, that's really interesting. Kudos!

[btroj]

That is one way to know for sure your bullet drop at those ranges. You have proof of what you are saying.

Quite interesting.

[HPT]

What the purpose of the group was to test a new sight I invented. For years I tried available receiver & tang sights so that I could use my low velocity open sight guns for hunting, but always ended up leaving these in the gun cabinet when the hunting season began as I could only trust these to about 125 yds aiming on & adjusting them took too much time that I might lose my opportunity to shoot.

So I came up with a receiver sight (tang sights always seem in the way on a levergun) that compensates for bullet drop. It uses an interchangeable cam that is profiled to match the trajectory of my gun & load (with click settings spaced @ 5yd intervals and profile calculated to 1 yd intervals) which is interchangeable, so I could use a different load if desired by swapping cams.

The target represents my first test of this. The second test came in deer season:
When I saw a deer sneaking thru the bush about to come into a hole in the bush. I didn't have time to range the distance but as I had been using the rangefinder all morning in the area I estimated 150 yds, adjusted to that distance & took the shot. Then I took the rangefinder out to check the distance - 152 yds. I felt confident of the shot and the result was a heart hit & dead deer found within 50 yds that I would have missed or wounded if I had "aimed on" with any of the previous store bought sights I had used (drop was 11" @ 152 yds)

[btroj]

I would say the sight works. Quite well too.

[Bullshop]

Will you be making these sights available? I am interested in one.

[HPT]

I am currently building the first batch (50 of these). Forty-five will be for sale (going to keep 5 for myself). I expect to have these complete by June 1. These will fit Winchester 94 and Marlin leverguns with factory sight mounting holes on the left side of the receiver. These will not fit the Winchester Big Bore.

Eventually I think there will be approx 40 standard cam profiles available to cover most if not all combinations of barrel length and velocity. For the first batch there will be only be profiles available that cover the advertised ballistics of factory ammo (got to start somewhere) for the following calibers:

30/30 150 gr
30/30 170 gr
32 Win 170 gr
35 Rem 200 gr
44 Mag 240 gr
444 Marlin 240 gr
45/70 300 gr
45/70 405 gr

For the second batch I will try to fill in the gaps for those of us that handload

[crabo]

Pictures?

[HPT]

Here is a picure of the prototype sight mounted to my 38-55. This was of all steel construction (heavy). The production ones will be half the weight - yet just as strong (7075 aircraft grade aluminum & steel).

The production sights will also have bevelled corners so they don't look as square. The top will have 2 widths to match the difference in action widths between Winchester and Marlin actions

http://i191.photobucket.com/albums/z41/VonN_photos/IMG_0008.jpg

[seppos]

Looks really interesting.
Any idea about the price.?

S

[HPT]

$150 for sight including 1 cam. Extra standard cams probably around $40 ea. This is what I plan on charging right now.

[Bullshop]

You can put me on the list of folks to contact when they are ready or I can pay now if you prefer.
I wonder if your idea can be applied to long range target sights.
I will want the 45/70- 405. I will also want to add cams when you get to matching them to hand loads. I am assuming the 45/70-405 is for factory ammo with the 405gn bullet at 1330 fps.

[HPT]

Bullshop,

Thanks for the interest - you're on the list & you are correct about the 1330 fps. I will need to look into becoming a vendor sponsor and get these complete.

[acemedic13]

Looks super cool and the results are impressive. I cant really tell by the pic if the sight is screwed into the reciever. I assume it is....Might sound stupid, but thought I would ask. If it is not what keeps them from marring the receiver when mounted? Either way I like it a lot and would be interested in one when they are available.

[Bullshop]

I forgot to mention that I will want the screw hole spacing for a Marlin receiver.
Also we are officially/unofficially closed for the season so when the weather gets better I will be spending far less time here at CB so if you would please email me when you want payment.
bullshop@wildak.net

[Red River Rick]

HPT:

After our discussion at the Selkirk shoot last year, you didn't fill in all the details. But, now I know..................GOOD for you!

So does this mean your going to give Sergio some competition? When will you offering a full Tang Sight?

When the smoke clears............give me a call.

:drinks:
Rick

[Dan Cash]

I too am interested and will pay up front. 1 unit for 30-30-170. Also interested in a sight and cam for 95 Win 30-40-220 when you get into production.
Sincerely,
Dan Cash

[HPT]

Acemedic 13,

Fits flush with side of receiver & mounts using existing threaded holes in gun. Let me know what caliber you are looking for & I will put you on the list also

Bullshop,

I will give you dimensions along with sight

Rick,

Any interest in a trade for a mold?

Dan Cash,

You are on the list as well

[StrawHat]

I would also be interested in this , for a Winchester 1895. Any chance it could be adapted to the 95 action?

[HPT]

Hi Strawhat,

It will be late summer before I can look at a expanding to different models. At that point, I will look at demand to decide what model to build for. Right now, I don't know what that will be.

[acemedic13]

30-30 hpt.

[muleequestrian]

Let me know when you have one available for Winny 94 in .30-30 170 grain cast boolit. Put me on the list too !

[HPT]

OK Muleequestrian,

I put you on the list as well. Still looking like June 1 to have the first batch completed.

[rhouser]

I shoot a marlin 93 bp 38-55. What's the chance of a copy of what you used to shoot your range target? rc

[Marvin S]

Please list me for a Win 94/64 in 32 Win Spc. Thanks. PM sent

[HPT]

Hi rhouser & Marvin


Thanks for the interest. I've sent p.m.'s to each of you

[HPT]

For those interested - here's a video on YouTube of my sights

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kR6EJV6zGRc

[Bardo]

When I clicked on the link it says it has been removed by the user.

PS will you be offering thin in 357 mag?

Bardo

[gandydancer]

This holds an interest for me also. for my marlin 38/55 it is a older 336 type receiver and a 1893 original marlin 38/55 barrel on it. keep me in the loop as you progress on this. Thanks. Tom//gandydancer (clicked on the link it says it has been removed by the user.) Thanks.

[HPT]

I updated the video with close ups on how it works

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kR6EJV6zGRc

[Dan Cash]

I have one of HTPs sights with 2 cams, one for .30-30 170 and one for .35 200. If your load matches the ballistic coefficient and velocity you claim when you order the sight, it is as close as you are going to get to perfection. The sight is rugged, simple to use and accurate.
Dan

[HPT]

Thanks for the kind words Dan!