Making Hollow Points with a drill press? [Archive]

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LET-CA

12-05-2006, 12:54 PM

Has anyone here had good experience with drilling the meplat of a cast bullet to make it into a hollow-point? I have a whole bunch of bullets that I'd like to experiement with. I figure I can make a small wooden fixture to line up the bullet and use a small drill press drill to a controlled depth into the meplat. Who knows, it might even be faster than casting them one at a time, and it certainly allows for some bullets that aren't otherwise available in the market. I'm thinking that the Lyman 429244 (255 grain) and the 429650 (300 grain) could make a great hollow-points.

I'd love to hear from those who know. Thanks in advance

Lenny

45 2.1

12-05-2006, 12:58 PM

Veral Smith wrote an article in the "Fouling Shot" about that some years back. He took a corner off a steel plate to hold the cartridge in a circular cut and had the hole for the drill so it would center the meplat. All you did was hold the cartridge in the circular cutout and drill the hollow point. Slick!

Johnch

12-05-2006, 01:32 PM

I use a Lee case trimer case holder mounted in the drill press , with the drill bit sticking up out of the vice , bolted to the drill press
Insert the loaded round in the shell holder
Slowly lower till I hit the stop
Repeat , repeat ..............................

I just used the stuff I had laying around

To center the drill bit
I insert it into the chuck backwards .
Lower it down to the vice
Ajust the vice to grab the bit without putting any stain on the bit .
loosen the chuck and insert the Lee case holder

Takes longer to explain than to set up

Johnch

Junior1942

12-05-2006, 01:39 PM

Johnch, you're a genius.

PatMarlin

12-05-2006, 01:51 PM

http://www.midwayusa.com/eproductpage.exe/showproduct?saleitemid=371968

LET-CA

12-05-2006, 03:24 PM

You're my hero! I'll give this a try. Thanks for the link. I wonder if it can be made to work with an RCBS case trimmer?

Lenny

http://www.midwayusa.com/eproductpage.exe/showproduct?saleitemid=371968

LET-CA

12-05-2006, 03:27 PM

A photo of your setup would be appreciated. Thanks.

I use a Lee case trimer case holder mounted in the drill press , with the drill bit sticking up out of the vice , bolted to the drill press
Insert the loaded round in the shell holder
Slowly lower till I hit the stop
Repeat , repeat ..............................

I just used the stuff I had laying around

To center the drill bit
I insert it into the chuck backwards .
Lower it down to the vice
Ajust the vice to grab the bit without putting any stain on the bit .
loosen the chuck and insert the Lee case holder

Takes longer to explain than to set up

Johnch

12-05-2006, 06:59 PM

I use a real high tech method. Clamp down a bit of 1/2 steel scrap on the drill press and drill a boolit diameter hole through it. Pull the bit and replace it with the hollow point size bit. Stick a loaded cartridge up through from the bottom and set the depth stop. Then I just stick them up from the bottom, (they stop against the case neck), and lower the bit into the boolits one by one. I use the same set up to drill a small hole in the base of boolits to make mold laps.
BD

JDL

12-05-2006, 09:52 PM

Back in 1977, IIRC, a friend made a teflon fixture that slipped over the loaded round of my .300 Savage, which had a small hole for a drill. I made several HP of 311466 and killed a couple of deer with them. -JDL

Nelsdou44

12-05-2006, 10:08 PM

TCLouis

12-05-2006, 11:03 PM

say for instance:

358429
429421 and others of like meplat
C429310 or the like

30 cals like the 150 and 173 grain

45-70 types

and how about depth of the HP hole

Will HP in round nose boolit replace he need for a meplat for effectiveness?

PatMarlin

12-05-2006, 11:28 PM

You're my hero! I'll give this a try. Thanks for the link. I wonder if it can be made to work with an RCBS case trimmer?

Lenny

Anything for a comrade from my home town. Us native Sacratomatans gotta stay together... :mrgreen:

versifier

12-06-2006, 01:18 AM

I just got the Forster hollowpointer. The instructions say "Hand-drilled hollowpoints expand better than factory-molded hollow points." What's the basis for that?

The marketing department. Drilled, swaged, or cast, a hole's a hole. In general, given two boolits identical except for the HP, the Hp will fly better aerodynamically and be more accurate. Most match bullets are HP's. Boolit hardness makes the biggest difference. Not to say that hole diameter and depth don't make a difference, but not as much as changes in alloy. Lino boolits don't expand well at cast velocities, WW's are better, and pure lead expands the best of all - the HP's improve it across the board. Drilling lets you try it with any boolit to see the difference for yourself, but it is a relatively slow and tedious process.

Dale53

12-06-2006, 02:03 AM

Years and years ago, I had a friend who expanded the size of the hollow points on Speer half jacketed SWC bullets. They had a rather small, shallow, hollow point and he was dissatisfied with the results. He rigged up a wooden jig for his drill press and drilled out the hollow points (used the existing holes to line up the drill when he set the fixture up). It went rather fast (production was good) and man, did the bullets expand. He used them on .357 and .44 bullets to excellent effect.

One year he shot over 20 ground hogs with the revolver. He did not have to shoot any of them twice[smilie=1:.

Dale53

Bass Ackward

12-06-2006, 08:10 AM

I just got the Forster hollowpointer. The instructions say "Hand-drilled hollowpoints expand better than factory-molded hollow points." What's the basis for that?

So far the setup works ok but the drill stop only allows a hole depth of 1/8".

Nels

Nels,

On the surface it sounds bogus. But with any mix that was water drop hardened, disturbing the metal after the process takes hold, results in bullets that will soften closer to air cooled levels in that area. So the heat and friction from drilling, as little as it is, would cause that area to soften and make it more ductile which is exactly where you want it. But unless you are already using a very soft mix like 50/50 WW /pure, that would be a stretch to ever see.

After my experience this year, a 1/8 hole , 1/8" deep was what I used and I don't think I would want to go any bigger. That still leaves enough meplat for initial shock, improves accuracy quite well on my stuff, and makes for fast drilling and easy loading without deformation.

If there was a down side, it would be in the increased damage it caused at only 1100 fps. Can't imagine using it in a rifle at say 1500 fps. Whew!

carpetman

12-06-2006, 10:50 AM

45 2.1

12-06-2006, 10:53 AM

I been thinking about hunting some mountain lions with my air rifle. Need more performance out of the pellets. Might take an elephant or two and maybe a couple of capes. Was wondering if I could instantly hollow point them by shooting them backwards?

Yes, you could, but you need penetration to actually kill those beasts. We will take up a collection should you want to try that for a burial wreath in your honor.

Poygan

12-06-2006, 11:16 AM

Carpetman: Perhaps an honor guard with air rifles?

ARKANSAS PACKRAT

12-06-2006, 11:34 AM

Has anyone tried this with a lathe centerdrill? A hole with a tapered cavity at the front? Bigger hollow on a boolit with a big mephat.

PatMarlin

12-06-2006, 01:10 PM

I been thinking about hunting some mountain lions with my air rifle. Need more performance out of the pellets. Might take an elephant or two and maybe a couple of capes. Was wondering if I could instantly hollow point them by shooting them backwards?

I've been thinking about hunting your avatar.. :mrgreen:

12-06-2006, 01:14 PM

If expansion is your main goal, here's something to try: Fill any hollow point with some non-hardening caulk like bathtub sealer. scrape it off level and let them set up before shooting. This will make most anything expand at any reasonable velocity and it will make large hollowpointed handgun bullets over expand. My brother refers to these as "poor mans gold dots". Personally I've had better luck with big meplats driven as fast as practical. BD

castalott

12-06-2006, 02:35 PM

howdy!
I think for your endevour (sp), I would get an air rifle with a cork in the end of it. It's a much bigger bore and you can improve the range by simply adding a longer string.... Also, you won't lose your projectile that way... This gives you multiple fast reloads.... Try to find a bunch of them mountian lions in one place...just jump into the middle of them with a wild scream and go to pluggin' em...

If you really feel it is necessary, you can hollow point the cork...I am sure this simple procedure will keep the cork from exiting the mountian lion at all...ie....it will dump all it's energy and not exit the beast...

For added enjoyment, try to block the only excape route with your body....this tends to sharpen the mind considerably..

Good Luck!!!!

my apologies for thread wander....but carpetman needs guidance here...

OLPDon

12-06-2006, 07:02 PM

Carpetman:
I play Bagpipes and would be Honored to be there with Air Rifle Honor Guard. The sound over Valley's & Medows would be Memorable & Emontional.
The Repass with friends of Cast Boolits there would hold fond memories for years and generations.
I Vote yea Mts.Lions for Carpetman's Air Rifle.
I kind of miss you already.
Don

PS,........ Remember to add us in your Last Will and Testament ifen you are unsure who to leave what Kindly list what you have here and we can help.
"Christmas can't be far away"

carpetman

12-06-2006, 07:31 PM

OLPDon I once made a bagpipe player mad when I told him I could play all the stuff he was playing on my duck call.

walltube

12-06-2006, 07:45 PM

A C'man backyard cat trophy:

http://www.boneclones.com/images/bc-103_web-md.jpg

W'tube :mrgreen:

OLPDon

12-06-2006, 08:14 PM

Carpetman
That is what all Great Pipers learn on Duck Call and Goose Call all at the same time. The Duck Call is played via mouth and The Goose Call is the sqeeze type. He wasn't mad at what you said as to you have found, the secret to better Bagpipes.

I hope there are no other Pipers here they will be quite displeased with me giving secret info.

Don

carpetman

12-06-2006, 08:22 PM

OLPDon---While you are giving bagpipe secrets---well urr what about the other secret that always gets asked about?

Scrounger

12-06-2006, 08:53 PM

LET-CA

12-06-2006, 08:59 PM

I'd appreciate it if one of you who has the Forster drill bit tool would be willing to post a photo of how it is set up in the case trimmer. I'm trying to figure out if I can make it work in my RCBS unit before I buy it. Thanks in advance.

Four Fingers of Death

12-06-2006, 09:02 PM

Some years ago I played with HP'ing, I used to use a nail I had filed the point off anf then whack it with the bit of hardwood that I used for the sprue plate during casting (splitter handle cut into three). Seemed to work ok, truth is I couldn't see any difference between the plain and the HPs, both killed ok.

Newtire

12-06-2006, 11:35 PM

I use a Lee case trimer case holder mounted in the drill press , with the drill bit sticking up out of the vice

Johnch

Tried the Forster unit for both rifle & pistol & was not impressed. YOur method sounds like a good one to try. Thanks alot!

Johnch

12-07-2006, 12:19 AM

I will see if I can't post a pic or 2
Not tonight though .
I worked to hard and I am tired :drinks:

Johnch

Lon

12-07-2006, 02:12 AM

Lenny, the Forster drill shank is 0.1875 or 3/16. It inserts in a hole in the center of the cutter on the rotating shaft on the Forster trimmer and is held with a set screw. If your RCBS trimmer has that size hole it will work.
Lon

leftiye

12-22-2006, 06:53 PM

Carpetman... Hunting your avatar..... Yeah, this on OR the cat!

Scrounger

12-22-2006, 07:11 PM

I been thinking about hunting some mountain lions with my air rifle. Need more performance out of the pellets. Might take an elephant or two and maybe a couple of capes. Was wondering if I could instantly hollow point them by shooting them backwards?

Legal to hunt mountain lions here but you have to buy a tag. I think you better stick with the miniatures, not as dangerous. Or your other hobby, helping sheep over fences.

Lloyd Smale

12-23-2006, 07:56 AM

Im up for that hunt!!

PatMarlin

12-23-2006, 09:26 AM

Me too!

Can I pack one of those awesome sixguns of yours when we go Lloyd?.. :mrgreen:

Bret4207

12-23-2006, 09:51 AM

Apparently some of you guys don't realize Uncle Ray the Carpetmans avatar is a photo his great granddaughter! Missy will be 15 next October so keep that in mind. Buncha sickos....

sundog

12-23-2006, 10:05 AM

Bret..., uh, that just ain't right. sundog

PatMarlin

12-23-2006, 10:06 AM

Nah- ...serio? :confused: I'm a married man sir.. :mrgreen:

Scrounger

12-23-2006, 10:15 AM

Apparently some of you guys don't realize Uncle Ray the Carpetmans avatar is a photo his great granddaughter! Missy will be 15 next October so keep that in mind. Buncha sickos....

Wrong!!! He had his favorite sheep on Oprah for a make-over. Now you know why he switched from camels...

PatMarlin

12-23-2006, 10:37 AM

Does he sit on that saddle whilst watching Oprah? Where is that pic anyways?.. :coffee:

Scrounger

12-23-2006, 10:43 AM

Does he sit on that saddle whilst watching Oprah? Where is that pic anyways?.. :coffee:

Here it is. He's much better these days, back on his Prozac...The other picture is how he is now after two years of that odd sheep fixation. Everytime I try to warn him against it, he just says," Flock ewe".

PatMarlin

12-23-2006, 10:48 AM

Ewe... looks like there maybe a little lead poisoning going on there too Ray?.. :shock:

carpetman

12-23-2006, 11:23 AM

carpetman

12-23-2006, 12:45 PM

Tpr Brett---You are correct, my avatar girll is jail bait. She accused me of rape. I was so elated that she may have fantasized about me in such a manner,I pled guilty. Judge gave me 30 days for perjury.

Scrounger

12-23-2006, 12:50 PM

Scrounger

12-23-2006, 12:57 PM

felix,you are correct---wheres Wills when you need him? This is getting more serious than Donald/Rosy. I heard that Rosy was a lesbian and I wasnt sure where Lesbia was,so I looked on a map. Never did find it--must be a small place,but I suspect overpopulated as there seems to be a lot of Lesbians around.

Lesbia is a small country completely surrounded by Texas. You know, "Way out west where men are men, and so are some of the women."

Or is that California????

Scrounger

12-23-2006, 01:08 PM

carpetman

12-23-2006, 01:33 PM

Scrounger---Lesbia can't be near Texas. I heard it is full of dikes and there just isn't enough water near here to justify that. Maybe you got it confused with Louisiana? They need more dikes,especially around New Orleans.

felix

12-23-2006, 02:16 PM

Has to be in the Montrose area around RiceUniv, just north of the hospital district in Houston. ... felix

Larry Gibson

12-23-2006, 02:27 PM

Ok....back to the question.......

My experience with cast HPs goes back to '68 with a 311410HP mould used in the .30 Carbine and a 311041HP for use in the 30-30 and .308 Win. I quickly found that normal alloys (WWs, Lyman #2 and Linotype) were poor expanders. Following the old writings of Keith and the articles in the NRA cast bullet book I made up softer alloys. In the early '70s I got the ForsterHP tool and began HPing handgun bullets also (356242, 358156, 410610, 429421 and 452490). I also used a Micheals (I think) bit for drill stocks for sling swivel studs to open up the HS made with the Forster bit. That made for a really wide mouthed tapered HP. Pure lead worked very well up through 900 fps with the PB bullets and with GC bullets up through 1100 fps. With magnum handgun loads up through 1400+ fps Keith's 1-16 tin/lead alloy gave very good accuracy and expansion. I've found with handgun bullets if you just cast WWs or harder alloy then HPing isn't much of a benifit. However if you want to really improve the terminal effectiveness of your bullets then changing to a more malleable alloy and HPing is a good way to do it.

With rifle bullets over 1600 fps I've found that Paco Kelly's use of WQ'd hard shot (3-5% antimony) alloy works very well up through 2100 fps and gives very good expansion with minimal sloughing. I have shortened the HP stem on the 311041HP and on the 323471HP moulds as both are GC and driven to 2100+ fps and this lessons sloughing. I left the stem full length in a 257283HP which casts a 80 gr PB bullet for my Savage 25-20. When cast of recovered .22LR lead and WQ'd from the mould they are accurate to 1400 fps and the HP gives explosive expansion on ground squirrels.

I mostly just buy multiple cavity moulds these days as they cast more bullets quicker and use the Forster HP tool to provide the few HPs I use for hunting. The 457483 in the Siamese Mauser is a good example; cast of WQ'd hard shot alloy the RN bullet is HP'd with the Forster to a depth of 3/8". Then the Micheals bit opens it up quite nicely. At 1783 fps the expansion is impressive and it is explosive at 2100 fps. That bullet cast of 1-30 tin/lead alloy at 1370 fps out of my H&R Officers Model TD expands very well in deer.

I am currently experimenting with the 429244 (GC bullet at 270 gr) HP'd for use in my Ruger FTBK .44. I'm going to cast them of 1-16 tin/lead alloy and recovered .22LR (WQ'd) and HP them. At 1400+ fps they should do quite well. I'm also going to try BruceB's double dip soft lead nose with them and compare to the HP'd bullets.

Larry Gibson

LET-CA

12-23-2006, 02:33 PM

Ok....back to the question.......

My experience with cast HPs goes back to '68 with a 311410HP mould used in the .30 Carbine and a 311041HP for use in the 30-30 and .308 Win.
. . snip . .

At 1400+ fps they should do quite well. I'm also going to try BruceB's double dip soft lead nose with them and compare to the HP'd bullets.

Larry Gibson

This is great information! I really appreciate all the info from those of you who've done this before.

Tedbytes

06-16-2017, 03:11 PM

I have been very successful making hollowpoints using my hobby lathe and 1/8 center drill or larger. One of my favorite 44 special bullets is Lyman 429451 255 gn lead plain base round nose. The small round meplat makes it difficult to start most drillbits using a drill press. I have used "as cast" 429451 chucked into the 3 jaw chuck of the lathe and locked in at the end of the drive bands closest to the nose. The center drill comes to a distinct taper for countersinking,but offers a visual stopping point for feeding your quill end and center drill. I will do several bullets,then weight them after this. This initial step usually removes about 10 grains of lead with a large entrance hole where the countersinking ledge has just been started. I weight all drilled bullets and fine-tune their weights using a 4mm hex drill bit in a small hand drill motor. I am able to produce excellent weight to weight with no perceptible deviance,perhaps .1-.2 grains. I then size and lube the drilled bullets. My low vel 44 special loads for a Charter Arms or level 1 44 special load under 13,000 psi using 6 unique makes this bullet an excellent heavy weight bullet that expands with pure lead. As cast weight of course will be smaller in diameter as opposed to an alloy using tin and antimony.

Ballistics in Scotland

06-16-2017, 03:50 PM

You probably didn't want to know but... Lesbos is a Greek island in the Aegean Sea. Seems I remember a story from 8th grade literature about all the women being shipped to this island for safekeeping during one of their many wars several thousand years ago.

It is indeed, but the term arose solely because of the imagined orientation of the poetess Sappho who lived there and ran an academy for women. There is nothing clearly lesbian in her writings, or those of others anywhere near her lifetime, although there was no secret about Greek males of the time all being at it. Patrick O'Brian, author of "Master and Commander" etc., describes a possibly fictional evacuation of Lesbians during the Napoleonic Wars, in which I don't think anybody noticed anything out of the ordinary.

Back on the subject as someone said, nearly everybody overestimates how big a hollow I s advantageous on game. A fairly soft alloy is more important. Anything anywhere near as hard as linotype will break up as far back as the hollow goes. This can get you quite seriously and irreversibly killed by dangerous game, as the extremely fast thimble-shaped bullets of the first Express rifles did in any alloy. It may do as much good as harm on deer-sized animals, albeit with a bit more meat damage than usual.

The hollow has to be very concentric with the rest of the bullet. Is there a stronger word than "very"? I do not like the idea of a wooden or roughly drilled holder for the bullet. I think you could do well with a simple reamed die, and pistons, one pointed and one flat, pressed in from either end in a vice. This is my drawing, but it would be better with enlarged ends so that the pistons can always be pressed in to exactly the same point, possibly with shims to suit different bullet weights.

197714

mdi

06-16-2017, 04:00 PM

Is this a record for resurrecting a thread? Eleven years?...:kidding:

BAGTIC

06-16-2017, 04:00 PM

Smoke4320

06-16-2017, 04:25 PM

Look again. It is called Lesbos.
and winter is coming

Grmps

06-17-2017, 01:53 PM

I saw this video on youtube where the guy clamped a tubing clamp/flaring tool on a drill press.... really slick. The only downside is haveing to find my flaring tool that I have not used in 30+ years
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zdbAvgMxlEw

Spector

06-17-2017, 05:40 PM

I chucked up a drill bit and put a piece of hardwood in the machine vice on my drill press. I drilled a hole in the wood and un-chucked the drill bit and forced it into the hole in the wood. Then I lightly chucked boolits in the drill press preferring to spin the boolit rather than the drill bit. There was some variation in the finished weights. I bought some center drills at Harbor Freight to use the next time I try it. Once I got them done I ran them through the sizer. The biggest issue I saw is getting each hollow drilled to exactly the same depth.

It just seemed to me that spinning the boolit would aid in concentricity.

Mike.

Ballistics in Scotland

06-18-2017, 05:41 AM

It would if you held the bullet in a collet, including a specially made one from one of the soft steel Morse taper mandrels you can buy. Few drill chucks are quite as concentric as is desirable for this job. I'd prefer metal to wood to hold the drill, clamped firmly in place, and start the hole with a short, rigid centre drill. Then I would epoxy the drill into the hole. I have drilled Morse taper reamers for a pilot with carbide drills that way, and end mills to make a bore reamer piloted on the long operating rod and pulled instead of pushed.