PDA

View Full Version : How many rounds do you carry?



BulletFactory
03-31-2011, 10:23 PM
With 3 mags, a 9, 2 12's and one in the hole, I usually have 34, sometimes Ive got another 12 rd on me. .40S&W. Once I get the bug out of layaway, I'll have another 10+1, add a 10 rd mag, and another box of 50 in .22LR. At that time It will be around 117, unless Im in the car, which always has at least another hundred of each. When I clean it out, theres usually a few that get under the seats. so I would say in the car, its usually 3 to 4 hundred.

klcarroll
03-31-2011, 10:40 PM
I have had to draw my weapon twice in response to "proposed armed violence": In both cases, I was facing a pair of individuals; ....And in both cases they departed without taking the time to even check if I did, in fact, HAVE any ammo!

Life must be a lot tougher in Michigan!:kidding::kidding:



Kent

imashooter2
03-31-2011, 10:42 PM
5 in a S&W 360.

quilbilly
03-31-2011, 10:50 PM
In the hunting field, I rarely carry more than a dozen since I hunt with single shots.
In the city, only 1+1 clips since firefights are highly unlikely.

BruceB
03-31-2011, 11:21 PM
I'm taking this as a CCW question, so in that light:

One "gunful" plus one extra magazine..... 8 + 7 in the SIG 220 .45, 8+7 in the Firestar 9mm, 8+7 in my 45-caliber 1911s.

Five in the S&W 642 plus one or two 5-round speedloaders.

Six in the .357 S&W M19 plus one or two 6-round speedloaders.

I do believe that the situation will be resolved before my gun runs out of fodder.

Clint Smith quote: "I may get killed with my own gun, but they'll have to beat me to death with it because it's going to be EMPTY."

And, "I ain't gonna die for lack of shooting back!"

In my practice sessions, I routinely shoot to slide-lock...rounds left in the gun won't do me any good in most fights.

1911sw45
03-31-2011, 11:26 PM
I carry 8+1 in my firearm, plus two 8 round mags. So it's 25 for me.

Adam

Johnch
03-31-2011, 11:28 PM
I carry only a full mag + 1 in the barrel for 11 rnds

I see the ease of just concealing the pistol
Better than the extra rounds and the bulk of a spare mag or 2

John

a.squibload
03-31-2011, 11:28 PM
PM40, 5+1 in it, and two 6-round mags, but I was a Boy Scout.
My truck strains under the load when I go camping...

kyswede
03-31-2011, 11:28 PM
When I carry my 45 I have a 230 gr. JHP in the chamber,10 more JHP in the magazine, and 2 extra 10 round mags ( 1 with JHP, the other fmj). When I carry my Glock 26 I have 11 in the pistol and 2 17 round mags for backup. I figure if I have to reload I am no longer worried about concealment.
kyswede

BulletFactory
03-31-2011, 11:30 PM
yeah, Michigan is a neat place, 4 of our cities made the top 10 most dangerous last year on the FBI list. They should issue guns to our citizens. Flint Detroit, Saginaw, and I forgot the other one. Pontiac maybe? I live an hour from any of them.

yotatrd4x4
03-31-2011, 11:35 PM
For carry I use an XD9 Service model 16 in the mag and then another 16 in the spare may I usually insert a full mag and put one in the chamber then have 15+1 and an extra 16rd mag. When I hunt up here in known brown bear country I carry a redhawk 44mag with 6 in it and a speed loader with 6 in it they are buffalo bore 44+p+ so they equal about factory or higher 454 casull loads running a 340gr wfngc about 1400fps out of a 6 inch barrel so my 4 inch is prob a bit slower. I just picked up a 500 so it will be 5 plus 5 of buffalo bore for her as well. I reload but the buffalo bores are way higher quality than I can make especially when it comes to the heavy crimp so they don't jump crimp on me

Idaho Sharpshooter
03-31-2011, 11:48 PM
Para P-14 45 acp. Fifteen in the pistol, and a spare magazine (14). If that is not enough, someone just shoot me. I deserve to die.

Rich

mooman76
03-31-2011, 11:51 PM
I carry one. I hit what I aim at!:kidding:

Ajax
04-01-2011, 02:46 AM
I carry a 1911 8+1 i don't really see a need for more at this point and time.

357maximum
04-01-2011, 07:19 AM
I carry 5 in the cylinder and sometimes *rarely* I carry 5 in my pocket. I do not live in the Southeast corner of the state however.

steg
04-01-2011, 07:38 AM
Smith Airweight, 5 in gun, 5 in Quick release holder...................steg

pdawg_shooter
04-01-2011, 08:07 AM
A Sig P220 with 5 mags. When shooting prairie dogs in the spring when the pups are up, 400 to 500 most days. There have been days I ran out and had to quit early. Deer hunting, 5 rounds is more than enough. Coyote calling, a box of 20 is plenty.

LaPoint
04-01-2011, 08:13 AM
3 mags of 15 ea., plus one in the chamber equals a total of 46.

Bulldogger
04-01-2011, 08:30 AM
It depends on which gun, it's either 5 or 10, NAA .22mag or Kel-Tec P-11. The NAA is clumsy to reload, so no need to carry more and the P-11 rig I have doesn't have a spare mag pouch and my pockets are already full.

I believe much more strongly in winning by not fighting, and half the time I'm strolling around I've got a 2yr old in tow, I'm attuned to avoiding conflict by crossing the street or staying out of seedy areas, etc. Being the hard target I heard it called once.

I still believe in lacking heat just the same. Having been ventilated once before, I feel much better when heeled. Smarts a bit. 9mm ball sure is great though, makes a nice clean hole, only hurts for about a month... damn crackheads...

cajun shooter
04-01-2011, 08:31 AM
I lost a former riding partner to a physco on medications. He shot Jimmy through his heart at Point Blank range through the glass of the door. Before the firefight was over I myself had fired well over 120 rounds. These were fired from my full R&R 16 and my 357 side arm. This was a very special occurrence and not normal but does show that you need all you can carry if working on duty as that is how I read the question. We had Jimmy lying on the porch of the camp which was on piers about 10 feet up. His partner, Mo Martello dove through the screen wire and found cover under the camp. He expended his normal 12 rounds that he carried and was empty hollering for help. I had just talked to Jimmy on the radio before he went 10-7 on the call. The siege was well over 6-7 hours long and erupted into a firefight several different times as the shooter would fire from a different position. I was on the swat team and had it not been for the several hundred rounds that I carried in a foot locker in the trunk of my unit many of the officers present would have been with out ammo. I'm not trying to preach here fellas but it can happen to anyone at any time. Say you are a civilian with a CCW and some nut confronts you and your family on a road that is not used that much. Your first six can go mighty fast with out the results you feel capable of. I said six because of my age and training but what ever it may be. Could very easy be a carload with each person armed. Many of my trainees would ask when they finished the academy this very question. My answer then and now is how much is your and your family's life worth in the cost of ammo. I also advise to swap out all your loaded ammo every six months. You may shoot it or save it for practice. If carry ammo in leather strips please replace it also. My older cops at that time had ammo that was almost impossible to remove and when it did it would not chamber. Keep it all up to date. I am not some Rambo cop but someone who has been there. A few extra boxes in the vehicle and at least three loads on your person is not a lot to wake up tomorrow.

DCM
04-01-2011, 08:35 AM
I always carry a spare mag with a semi auto.
It's not about quantity, but history shows that even the most reliable gun can jam at the worst possible moment.
I have had 99% reliable firearms jam at the worst possible moment in high level matches.
Be prepared!

edit: Cajun shooter has some very good points there especially about swapping your ammo out. I have seen ammo failures in hunting ammo that is kept in a leather shell holder over time. IMO I would avoid them as they hold moisture and are often oiled to protect the leather both of which are bad for ammo. Seeing this happen has caused me to take the extra steps of sealing my primers and gently crimping my bullets also as we don't get to choose the weather we have to deal with.

blasternank
04-01-2011, 08:47 AM
Usually about 8 rounds

bobthenailer
04-01-2011, 09:24 AM
what ever the gun will hold + 1 extra reload or 2 pistols

Trey45
04-01-2011, 09:26 AM
3-13 round mags plus one in the pipe. 40 rounds total.

HATCH
04-01-2011, 09:39 AM
I carry whatever the gun will hold.
Sometimes thats just 5 rounds, sometimes its 13 rounds.
On rare occasions when I believe the risk is higher then normal (still no real threat) then I carry a spare magazine so at most the max I have with me will be 26 rounds.

deltaenterprizes
04-01-2011, 09:43 AM
Most of the time I carry a J frame Smith and a speed loader , when I go visit New Orleans I add a Glock and 2 extra mags so that would be about 40 rounds.

BulletFactory
04-01-2011, 03:06 PM
I have heard that even police have a hit average of 20%. That said, if you are facing only one attacker,(biped predators are pack animals), and you have 6 to 10 shots, you better be in an excellent position to achieve perfect shot placement with one or two rounds under sdverse conditions, and duress.

If your attacker is a four legged animal, they dont go down as quickly as man, are usually smaller, can move much faster, and have no pre conceived feelings or fears about guns.

Basically, if you are facing more than one target, animal or human, and you have under 10 rounds loaded, by the numbers, you are screwed.

Ohio Rusty
04-01-2011, 05:37 PM
I have 5 in the revolver, and I either carry 5 in the H&K sopeedloader, or I'm carrying my 5 shot speed strip. In addition to that. I also carry a tactical light and a tactical pen for stabbing or crushing holes in a perps body or head.
Ohio Rusty ><>

BarryinIN
04-01-2011, 06:27 PM
What's in the gun plus two mags.
If there is a malfunction, odds are it's the mag. If I do need to use my gun, I want it refilled ASAP because I probably just gained some enemies. So I'm going to carry another mag, and I find two just as easy to carry as one.

So-
With a 1911 or HK P7M8, that's a total of 25. With the HiPower, it's 40.

Recluse
04-02-2011, 12:27 AM
The normal, everyday carry weapon is a 9mm with 15 + 1. On a road trip or a trip into downtown Dallas, two spare magazines go with me.

In the country or while on horseback, or in the boat, it's the Model 686 hogleg with two speedloaders.

:coffee:

2ndAmendmentNut
04-02-2011, 01:06 AM
XD 9mm Sub-compact. 10+1 mag in the gun and a 16rd back up, so 27 rounds total.

BulletFactory
04-02-2011, 02:08 AM
I like this thread, it's fun.

justingrosche
04-02-2011, 02:08 AM
With my XD 45 service, which is one my side now , 13+1 and a another mag it my poket. Summertime in shorts with the 640 it's 5 plus 2 speed loaders.

Mustangpalmer1911
04-02-2011, 02:46 AM
A 1911 with a 8 round +1 in the chamber and usaly a 7 rounder in the pocket.

Old Shooter
04-02-2011, 04:09 AM
I watch where I go, and am comfortable with 5 in my gun.I do not start wars with biker gangs.

jhrosier
04-02-2011, 07:03 AM
A gun full plus a reload most times. Where I live and work, trouble is not likely.
My usual ( occasional ) CCW is a five shot revolver.

For home defense or where trouble is more possible, a 14 shot semi auto with two reloads.

If trouble is expected, a FAL with 18 twenty round mags.

Jack

FISH4BUGS
04-02-2011, 09:04 AM
S&W 3914 - 8+1 and 2 extra mags
S&W 36 3" square butt 5 + extra speed loader
Normal carry guns
House guns:
In additon to above, Serbu Super Shorty 6" bbl pump 20 ga (yes it is registered as an AOW)
SBR AR15 with 15 or more loaded mags
SBR UZI w/ 10 loaded mags
S&W 28 357 with speed loaders
S&W 29 44 mag w speed loaders
Full auto guns are in the safe
Always available at home - always loaded - always ready
....ya never know.................

fatnhappy
04-02-2011, 10:47 AM
I carry a 1911 8+1 i don't really see a need for more at this point and time.

Exactly the same for me, except I carry a spare magazine too.

koyote
04-02-2011, 07:57 PM
At home I carry just the 5 in the cylinder. Out and about I slide an extra 5 in a speed strip in a pocket. Out and about out here can mean 60 or more miles from the nearest habitation - very different reasons to carry reloads than the urban mindset.

If I'm using the baby gun (keltec 32) I carry and extra mag if suited to clothing or travelling distance. While the .32 is really not the most suitable choice for a bush gun, it is sometimes what I have.

klcarroll
04-03-2011, 10:00 AM
It has been said many times that one of the essential elements in Self Defense is “Situational Awareness”: ….The acquired skill of correctly assessing your immediate environment, and any imminent threats.

…..And this brings up a side issue here that hasn’t been mentioned; ……An issue that will be utterly non-existent in some areas, and an important concern in others: ….And you need to be “Aware” of exactly where you are.

I’m referring to your “Chances For Survival” in the legal proceedings that will inevitably follow the discharge of your weapon.

In the minutes following the use of your weapon in a self defense scenario, you will be detained, and the police will take possession of your weapon and all related material. ....It will be “essential evidence” for the pending hearing and any subsequent legal actions.

If the police documentation shows that in addition to your weapon, you surrendered 75 rounds of spare ammunition, ….AND if the shooting took place in any of the areas where there is a significant “anti-gun” sentiment, …..you will have an additional problem:

The State Attorney’s Office and the bottom-feeders that pass for Judges in such areas will (…after exchanging “High Fives” in celebration) do everything in their power to characterize you as a person who was obviously “itching for a fight” and a “Public Danger”: .....In short, they will attempt to make you appear to be an aggressor.

….And your legal problems will be more protracted and much more expensive.

(If the shooting took place in Cook County, Illinois, …..you probably should have saved the last bullet for yourself!)


Kent

softpoint
04-03-2011, 10:24 AM
It has been said many times that one of the essential elements in Self Defense is “Situational Awareness”: ….The acquired skill of correctly assessing your immediate environment, and any imminent threats.

…..And this brings up a side issue here that hasn’t been mentioned; ……An issue that will be utterly non-existent in some areas, and an important concern in others: ….And you need to be “Aware” of exactly where you are.

I’m referring to your “Chances For Survival” in the legal proceedings that will inevitably follow the discharge of your weapon.

In the minutes following the use of your weapon in a self defense scenario, you will be detained, and the police will take possession of your weapon and all related material. ....It will be “essential evidence” for the pending hearing and any subsequent legal actions.

If the police documentation shows that in addition to your weapon, you surrendered 75 rounds of spare ammunition, ….AND if the shooting took place in any of the areas where there is a significant “anti-gun” sentiment, …..you will have an additional problem:

The State Attorney’s Office and the bottom-feeders that pass for Judges in such areas will (…after exchanging “High Fives” in celebration) do everything in their power to characterize you as a person who was obviously “itching for a fight” and a “Public Danger”: .....In short, they will attempt to make you appear to be an aggressor.

….And your legal problems will be more protracted and much more expensive.

(If the shooting took place in Cook County, Illinois, …..you probably should have saved the last bullet for yourself!)


Kent
Makes me glad I'm in Texas. Here, if the shooting is justified as self defense by the grand jury, that is the end of it. And, under some conditions, even personal property can be protected by deadly force. (legally)
I usually carry one spare mag for the 1911 or Glock in my pocket, several more in the truck.

BulletFactory
04-03-2011, 11:12 AM
I watch where I go, and am comfortable with 5 in my gun.I do not start wars with biker gangs.


Thats a false sense of security. Theyre have been shootings in schools, churches, homes, police departments, and on military bases very recently. People felt pretty safe in those places too.

You're carrying 5, but the guy in Arizona was carrying over 70.

koyote
04-03-2011, 11:40 AM
Thats a false sense of security. Theyre have been shootings in schools, churches, homes, police departments, and on military bases very recently. People felt pretty safe in those places too.

You're carrying 5, but the guy in Arizona was carrying over 70.

There have been and will be shootings. But I'm not sure how carrying fewer reloads than an infantryman's basic load is a false sense of security.

*the guy* singular, one dude, in AZ was carrying over 70. But you don't need to beat that 70 to beat him.

I'd really be interested in finding the civilian cases where reloads were needed, and how many. (not trying to be argumentative, but I've been seriously pondering this for a while. I won't tell you what to carry, but I have a lot of people tell me I don't carry enough with 10, 14, 20, or 21 rounds available. And I just don't get it.)

I carry a few reloads because I'm not in the city. Not only do a few really....weird...like, make a suspense movie weird...... things happen in the basin and high desert, but there's real chances of opportunistic hunting/varminting, getting stuck, or just finding a good challenging target.

BulletFactory
04-03-2011, 12:10 PM
Studies have shown that even trained police have a hit rate of only 20%. If you have 5 shots, and 3 attackers, all you have to do is the math. If you're in the woods, you may have to deal with a very large, or several animals. Here in Michigan, you may have to deal with wild pigs, or wolves, both of which travel in packs, usually more than 5 animals per pack. Both species have been known to attack humans, they can both easily kill, and will stand their ground. Animals are smaller, move much faster, and don't go down as easily when hit.

http://johnrlott.blogspot.com/2007/12/police-hit-rates-on-shootings-as-low-as.html

klcarroll
04-03-2011, 12:59 PM
Studies have shown that even trained police have a hit rate of only 20%. If you have 5 shots, and 3 attackers, all you have to do is the math. If you're in the woods, you may have to deal with a very large, or several animals. Here in Michigan, you may have to deal with wild pigs, or wolves, both of which travel in packs, usually more than 5 animals per pack. Both species have been known to attack humans, they can both easily kill, and will stand their ground. Animals are smaller, move much faster, and don't go down as easily when hit.


I don't understand the point here.

Concealed carry is a precautionary measure against the possibility of street crime: ....And the weapons and load-outs chosen are invariably a compromise between effectiveness, concealability and general practicality. The reality of the situation (...and what you should be devoutly praying for!) is that you will probably never be required to actually fire your weapon.

If I knew for a fact that I was going into an area where it was LIKELY that I would encounter multiple adversaries who would continue a determined attack even after it became apparent that I was armed, ...I WOULD CHANGE MY PLANS!! It isn't my job to intentionally go out to "clean up the streets"!

The only excuse for finding yourself in such a situation would be total ignorance of the area you were traveling through! (.....Something I would not proudly admit!)

.....But if you did blindly stumble into a situation where multiple adversaries were an issue, the best possible use for that first loading in your weapon would be to create enough threat, noise, and confusion to cover your hasty and determined retreat! ....Consciously choosing to "Stand Your Ground and Shoot It Out" would be a fool’s choice.

I also don't understand the "Woods Scenarios":

Sure, ...a Pocket Pistol is fine for a casual stroll in the kind of area that would make for a pleasant walk: .......But if I were going into an area where I knew that there was a REAL possibility of encountering dangerous pack animals, I would put the pistol back into my top dresser drawer, and instead fill my pockets with 3" 00Buck to fit the 870 I just picked up as company for today’s stroll.

The hardware and load-out you carry has to be appropriate for the activities of the day! ........Here, more than anywhere else I can think of, "One Size Does Not Fit All"!!!


Kent

koyote
04-03-2011, 01:19 PM
Kent-

I agree 110% about urban carry and self defense. I'm still having some difficulty wrapping my head around "needing" 30+ rounds for such a situation.

My outback situation is different from our Michigan poster. Aggressive pack animals aren't on the plate out here.

My keltec .32 and the mauser hsc are not normally things that I carry when out and about, but it happens on occasion. I won't argue that they aren't ideal, but I also have a different take on things when carrying them versus the .44 bulldog.

Since the Bulldog is my more normal carried firearm, I'll address that. While technically a pocket pistol, one of the reasons I got it is that it's more than a pocket pistol.

In very rough order of what I think is likely to encounter-

1: coyotes. (I've shot 3 in my back pasture, all with a 20ga mossberg, incidentally. I've taken one out in the desert. Repercussions are.. disposal of the carcass or a permit if taking the pelt.)

2: Target of opportunity. I like to shoot and will sometimes plink. In general out here in the outback, the rule is, make sure of your backstop. Coyotes in the desert come more under this heading as they aren't strictly a threat to dogs, kids, livestock out in the Empty. They are overpopulated and thus fair game and it's reasonable to shoot them.


3: Snakes. I'm not really too pissy about snakes, but I have children who I am often out hiking with, and will just shoot a rattlesnake. Haven't done that in several years - before the kiddos- but it's a consideration. Repercussion: .... how to cook so the kiddos can taste it, and making a hatband for my son.

3: Human self-defense. Barring some crazy weirdo wanting to snipe at us (something you just aren't going to be able to prediuct or control), this will be a close range event and what I'm carrying will be fine.

4 and 5 are equally unlikely, imo.

4: cougar. They happen, we can get tags for them, there's issues with them on occasion with livestock. IF one was to be approaching myself or the kids, and didn't run off at a warning shot, then just shoot and shoot until it's not moving. I don't think reloads are a question here as there won't be time to worry about it. It might be nice to have a reload for afterwards. Repercussions are likely to be paperwork and reporting it, since you'll have to justify it as self defense without a tag.

5: general rescue/survival. I just barely get cell reception at my house. They're ain't none if you head south, east or north much. The "3 shots" rule is actually not a bad thing to remember out here.

The Bulldog is the closest I've come to one size fits all out here, unless I turn up a nice 4 inch smith :D

BulletFactory
04-03-2011, 01:27 PM
Quote:
The only excuse for finding yourself in such a situation would be total ignorance of the area you were traveling through! (.....Something I would not proudly admit!)

Like going to school?

redneckdan
04-03-2011, 01:41 PM
I most often as of late carry my 4 5/8" flat top in .44 special. I have the 6 loaded in the revolver and usually another 6 in my watch pocket. When out on walk about I usually have a MGM 50 pack mixed of full power and plinking/small game loads. Usually there is another mixed 50rds in the truck. I keep a box each for my most often carried sidearms in the event I forget the spare ammo at home. I've also carried a 629 4" or a model 15 4" with similar load outs. When I first started carrying I usually had a full size 1911 with two spare magazines. After a few years I found I never really needed to have the quick 2nd shot capability and more often than not I was plinking or taking game for the camp pot. So I changed my rig to better suit those needs. Understand that I live in the UP, in a county of 1500 square miles and 36,000 people. Now when I go down state.....that is another story....

koyote
04-03-2011, 02:19 PM
heh. Our population density is int he single digits per square mile... and that's cattle. ;)

How do you like that flat top? Given the unreal premium I've been seeing for older .44 special smiths, I've been considering a blackhawk as my next revolver purchase.

klcarroll
04-03-2011, 02:34 PM
........Like going to school?



I think it would be a really good idea for you to clarify that remark!


KLC

30CAL-TEXAN
04-03-2011, 02:53 PM
I carry a PM9 with the flush mag 6+1 and an extra 7rd mag pretty much everywhere I go. I don't always have a handy place for the extra mag but usualy try to.

As my CHL instructor said, it doesn't really matter how much ammo you carry untill after it's over, but if it was a 6 shot fight and you only had 5, you just lost.

It is good advice about the legal scum making a big deal about the number of spare rounds you carry but I really don't have to worry about that much here. In my town the Police will likely offer to replace the expensive holow points you had to waste while making their job easier!

waksupi
04-03-2011, 02:57 PM
I usually just carry a pistol up in the mountains, with not many extra rounds if I don't intend to plink a lot. I'm also down in #4 spot in the food chain in this area.

Trey45
04-03-2011, 03:00 PM
I think it would be a really good idea for you to clarify that remark!


KLC

I'll help shed some light on this, i caught what he was saying immediately. His response

"like going to school"

to your post

"The only excuse for finding yourself in such a situation would be total ignorance of the area you were traveling through! (.....Something I would not proudly admit!) "

was most likely a reference to the va Tech kids who were killed in the safety and security of their class room. They thought as any other person would, that they would be safe inside their university classroom. A lunatic with illegally obtained guns showed them they were wrong. If ONE of those kids had been allowed to legally protect himself with a legally obtained CCW, the tragedy would only be that the lunatic shooter was killed, and that's not much of a tragedy in my book.
Would it take 70 rounds to dispatch the lunatic? Who knows, I don't buy into one shot stops, I buy into shoot until the threat is ended.

BulletFactory
04-03-2011, 03:10 PM
^ yes, this. There is no such thing as a "safe" area. If you can get a one shot one kill, then great, but if you need 50 and have only 10% of what you need, then you're screwed.

BOOM BOOM
04-03-2011, 03:55 PM
HI,
For hunting 18 pistol, 25 rifle.
6 in pistol & 2 speed loaders.
5 in rifle, & 20 in plastic belt holders.:Fire::Fire:

firefly1957
04-03-2011, 04:21 PM
I like the way you spread the numbers you had a result that hit me with any of the several pistols I carry for self defense including the model 29 while I am hunting. (13 -24 was my choice)

redneckdan
04-03-2011, 04:40 PM
How do you like that flat top? Given the unreal premium I've been seeing for older .44 special smiths, I've been considering a blackhawk as my next revolver purchase.

I love it. And that's saying something. Usually I am a S&W aficionado. It is the first single action I have owned that I 'loved at first grip'. I have the bisley version.

klcarroll
04-03-2011, 05:12 PM
^ yes, this. There is no such thing as a "safe" area. If you can get a one shot one kill, then great, but if you need 50 and have only 10% of what you need, then you're screwed.


OK..........., I agree completely with the concept of "No Safe Areas": ......But we have to face reality! …….A citizen who is only capable of "10% accuracy" could conceivably cause more harm than the shooter he or she is trying to engage! If he/she fires 50 rounds, and only 5 result in telling hits on the target, ....we still have to deal with the fact that the other 45 rounds went SOMEWHERE!

The military may be able to write off "Collateral Damage", but I suspect that we, as "Joe Everyday Citizen", will not be allowed that luxury!

The studies indicating that Police Effectiveness is in the 20% range also require examination. The average LEO is operating at a serious disadvantage in that he/she is in uniform, and wearing a conspicuously displayed weapon. When dealing with people who are in the process of committing a crime, the LEO is, for all intents and purposes, wearing a neon sign that says “Shoot Me First!”. ……..In light of this, I am not surprised that in many cases, when the LEO elects to draw his/her weapon, he/she is already under fire! (…..And I certainly can’t fault them for “less than perfect” accuracy, considering the various “distractions”!)

To me, what all this boils down to is this: The decisions you make “in the moment” will probably be far more important than type of weapon you are carrying or the amount of spare ammo you have available.

This is nowhere as important as it is in crowded urban or indoor environment! If, in an attempt to engage an Armed Hostile, a citizen causes more casualties than the original shooter, ….we HAVE NOT won any battles!

One placed shot in a crowded room is ALWAYS a better solution than “Spray & Pray”: …..Even if it means you have to bide your time while other people are suffering!

….And BTW: The previous comment that I questioned was subject to serious mis-interpretation! ……I’m glad that has been clarified!

Kent

koyote
04-03-2011, 05:25 PM
I'll help shed some light on this, i caught what he was saying immediately. His response

"like going to school"

to your post

"The only excuse for finding yourself in such a situation would be total ignorance of the area you were traveling through! (.....Something I would not proudly admit!) "

was most likely a reference to the va Tech kids who were killed in the safety and security of their class room. They thought as any other person would, that they would be safe inside their university classroom. A lunatic with illegally obtained guns showed them they were wrong. If ONE of those kids had been allowed to legally protect himself with a legally obtained CCW, the tragedy would only be that the lunatic shooter was killed, and that's not much of a tragedy in my book.
Would it take 70 rounds to dispatch the lunatic? Who knows, I don't buy into one shot stops, I buy into shoot until the threat is ended.

I accept that, and figured that was what he was talking about. But needing several 15 round mags and being prepared (following the post back to what it was responding to) to assault "multiple adversaries unwilling to retreated when fired upon" seems extreme, again- even in the VA-Tech scenario.

In other news, we're getting a bill going here in NV to allow CCW permit holders to carry on campus at state institutions of higher learning!

koyote
04-03-2011, 05:29 PM
:hijack:


I love it. And that's saying something. Usually I am a S&W aficionado. It is the first single action I have owned that I 'loved at first grip'. I have the bisley version.

Hah! I love it! While I'm liking my bulldog fairly well, it's by no means a smith. I'm a huge fan of everything about a K frame revolver, in any caliber or barrel length. The DA trigger pulls are delightful, and the SA trigger pulls are ... delightful. And the handfeel is... yeah, delightful. (They also point better than my couple of autos or the bulldog, or the sportsman)

I'll have to see about budget and try to get one.

BulletFactory
04-03-2011, 05:51 PM
The point Im trying to make in all of this, is that while under stress, your hit rate, and shot placement is going to suffer. You just dont want to run out before its over, Im not suggesting spray and pray, that would be irresponsible. Suppressive fire may be a benefit, if those shots are placed carefully. Fact is, you're probably going to miss, and likely with a few rounds. You must always follow the basic safety rules, one of which, is to know whats behind your target. you did say "To me, what all this boils down to is this: The decisions you make “in the moment” will probably be far more important than type of weapon you are carrying or the amount of spare ammo you have available. ", and I certainly have no argument with that.

The simplest solution is to err on the side of caution, its not very difficult, or unusual to drop an extra mag in your back pocket in the morning.

redneckdan
04-03-2011, 06:04 PM
I'll have to see about budget and try to get one.

Like the great ferris bueller once said, 'if you have the means, i highly recommend it... The only thing that could make it better for me is if it was an unconverted 3 screw action.

On walk about this feb...

http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b77/redneckdan/IMGP4381.jpg

Ya I know the muklukks are definitely out of place in the desert.

http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b77/redneckdan/IMGP4380.jpg


Got it dirty the first week i had it.

http://www.castboolits.gunloads.com/showpost.php?p=1059798&postcount=1

cajun shooter
04-04-2011, 09:16 AM
Klcarroll, When I first read the OP I was thinking police as I am a former officer,sniper on swat team and firearms instructor. You sir have a very narrow thinking pattern that could one day cost you or a family member a loss of life. If I was taken to court because of all the left over ammo on my person or vehicle I would be grinning from ear to ear. That would mean that the others did not make it and I did. From your posting I gather that you have never been under fire and have been reading too many magazine experts. The only shot you will be judged on is the one that killed the other person. There is not a single law in this country that has to do with how many hits they have. I have testified in two shootings where the defence had filed a civil suit for wrongful death. The suits stated that the victim was shot more than once. I instructed by the rules that were taught to me by the FBI, S&W Academy, Use of Deadly Force classes and others over the years. The number one rule is that you continue to fire until the threat is gone, not hit once or three times but gone. That Sir means no taking in of air and no movement. A FBI firefight in Miami had three agents killed by a felon who had already received wounds that were not survivable. In other words he would have died even if help was there. He continued to shoot and kill. I can give you several of cases that are the same. I won my cases and will make a fool out of any one that wants to count my ammo. The jury would be on my side after my opening statement. The problem in today's world is all of the book and magazine "EXPERTS" that write the garbage you posted. They will have you so confused that you will freeze and be killed before you react. Sadly the police departments themselves have such crazy rules that it puts the officers at risk. I was given a week off without pay because after a incident the doctors removed a model 60 S&W from my ankle at the ER. They gave it to my LT. and We had a rule that stated no back up weapons allowed. The rule was changed after I became the lead instructor. As far as being in a safe area there is no such thing. What if you are driving home and see a police officer down and being shot at and you have 5 rounds with you? Oh that's correct the answer would be to leave the area fast. I hope that some of you understand that I am in no way saying to walk out your front door looking like Rambo every morning. It's very easy to carry speed strips for any revolver or extra mags for autos and that is what I am saying. Your vehicle if equipped with a console or glove box will carry a box that may be put into a pocket fast. I carry a S&W 65 because I love the gun. I carry it in a Uncle Mike's nylon holster. I also have a speed loader pouch attached to the holster that carries another 12 rounds. That gives me 18 rounds by just picking up one thing. The pouch is attached with plastic tie strips. I have this same set up on all my holsters. If it's a auto then I have three mags. One box of ammo allows me to exit my vehicle with 68 rounds for the revolvers and more for any auto. Long lives for all of you.

klcarroll
04-04-2011, 10:10 AM
Klcarroll, ........You sir have a very narrow thinking pattern that could one day cost you or a family member a loss of life. ........ From your posting I gather that you have never been under fire and have been reading too many magazine experts. ........


Well, .......I guess this is yet another excellent example of how misguided it is to pass judgment on another person based exclusively on a few words written on an Internet forum.

Yes, I have been under fire.

Yes, I have been forced to shoot another person.

And NO, I do not tell "War Stories": .....because I feel there is NOTHING positive about such experiences, and I find the memories painful. If that makes me a "weak sister" in your eyes, then please feel free to have fun here ridiculing me on that point: .....I really don't care! .....I have discovered through hard experience that my most severe critic is myself, and nothing said by others will make me feel better or worse about it!

In “The Every Day Civilian World" I have twice had to draw my weapon to prevent an armed assault. On both occasions I was facing two individuals, and in both cases they elected to leave the area rather than push the matter, so no shots were fired: ......A result that I was delighted with! (.....And here again, if you want to make fun of me on this point; .....Have at it! .....Enjoy!)

....And with all due respect, (..and I mean that sincerely because I do have a deep and abiding respect for all LEOs) ......I have to submit that if you truly believe that "Joe Citizen" will get the same considerations in Court as a trained LEO, (....particularly in a place like Illinois) then perhaps you too are suffering from a "Narrow Thinking Pattern".


Kent

cajun shooter
04-04-2011, 11:06 AM
I was not referring to you when I said what my posting contained sir. I did say however that you seem to take a lot of what you say from magazines. I did not included any of my war stories other than to point out my formal training and to bring up a FBI shootout. It's not my purpose to degrade anyone. I do however become very upset when some one with out any training makes such crazy statements as you did. To tell some one they will be punished for the amount of rounds they have is way off base. In the two shootings that I testified in as a expert I submitted several police shootings where a LEO fired one shot and then had their gun taken away by the felon that was hit once. The felon then proceeded to kill the officer. I lost two riding partners and have had more than one encounter. I feel your posting was not factual and only pointed out the problems. If you feel that is an attack on you and not what is called constructive criticism then I'm sorry you don't understand the meaning of my posting. Here is my exact point . Several shots fired with one hitting the mark. This one turned out right but I can show you stacks of records that go the other way. When you shoot anyone you first have to have what is called the Correct USE Of Deadly Force. If you have that and fire a gun that hits five times you are only judged on the fact that you had a right to shoot the first round. The other four are not included in your prosecution. If you have the correct training then you will be able to breathe God's air another day. I wish you well.

cajun shooter
04-04-2011, 11:09 AM
I came upon this on the SASS forum and thought it fit the thread. http://www.ktla.com...1c-e3a7449abc1b

BulletFactory
04-04-2011, 11:12 AM
He wasn't attacking you, and neither was I. Great post CS

Cops should never be barred from carrying a BUG. Period. Just remember that if you find an obviously otherwise law abiding citizen carrying one in those criminal empowerment zones that are known as "safe areas" or gun free zones.

BulletFactory
04-04-2011, 11:15 AM
CS, the link you posted doesnt work.

klcarroll
04-04-2011, 12:25 PM
I was not referring to you when I said what my posting contained sir. I did say however that you seem to take a lot of what you say from magazines. ..............It's not my purpose to degrade anyone. I do however become very upset when some one with out any training makes such crazy statements as you did. To tell some one they will be punished for the amount of rounds they have is way off base.....................

First of all, I responded to you directly because you opened your post by addressing me directly.

Secondly, I haven't bought or read a "Gun Magazine" in fifteen years: …..I got tired of the B.S.

...And thirdly, will you even consider the possibility that there are places in the Country where the legal climate is different than Louisiana??? Here in Illinois, the States Attorney’s Office, the Court System and the Governor are openly hostile to Gun Ownership; ......And I PROMISE you that they will make a big deal out of it if a private citizen detained after a self-defense shooting is found to be carrying what THEY consider to be an excessive amount of ammunition.

I see it in the news here all the time: A headline reports that during a traffic stop police found "Thousands of rounds of HANDGUN AMMUNITION" in the car, and based on that they pull a warrant and search the drivers house: ......And you have to read all the way to the very bottom of the article to discover that the fellow was simply driving home from Wal-Mart, where he had just purchased four bricks of .22LR!!!

It's all part of their concerted plan to characterize ALL of us as "Cowboys" and "Public Hazards"!

This thread isn't about Police Work; .....It's about ONE of the many preparations and considerations that a Private Citizen has to think about in preparing for any possible self-defense action: ....And those preparations and considerations will vary depending on where you live.

Your experiences as a LEO are not 100% relevant to the problems facing a Private Citizen.


Kent

a.squibload
04-05-2011, 03:10 AM
Seems in some areas the administration / politicians / newsdogs push their agenda
as though they are righteously informing the public as to what we should think.
"Why do you NEED so much ammo?" is the same as "Why do you NEED that gun?"
is the same as "Why do you NEED to be outside after dark?", etc., etc.
Accusing you takes the heat off them for not doing the job they were hired to do.
If they can portray you as Evil they won't have to explain why your attacker
(who has a long rapsheet) was released early, or not prosecuted, etc., etc.
They squander resources on prosecuting honest citizens for obvious self-defense cases
because it's easier than catching the crooks.

No hope of still being on topic, maybe I'm helping myself sort out the "too many rounds" thing.
In some areas acting within your rights can still put you in jeopardy.

cajun shooter
04-05-2011, 08:35 AM
KLCarroll, You keep trying to say that I'm only speaking of Louisiana and that is far from being true Are you trying to divert attention away from your postings. If you shoot in Illinois, use a gun with extra ammo in Illinois and so forth. It seems to me that you are the one stuck on quoting one states law and cases.The 2nd Amendment not only includes my state but yours as well Sir. If you have a vehicle with 4 tires then may I suggest that you leave and move to Arizona, Texas, Montana, Utah, Wyoming, Arkansas, Mississippi, Alabama and Tennessee to just name a few. Notice I didn't include Louisiana as you might have trouble with the food.

klcarroll
04-05-2011, 08:46 AM
@ squibload;

Well said! ......You summarized the problem perfectly, and you are 100% correct in your analysis of the "oppositions" motives!

......And you correctly pointed out that the issue of "Why do you need that much ammo?" is simply part of a much larger threat to our freedoms:

Any time one of our "Rulers" starts a dialog by asking "Why do the People NEED.........." ; ....Bend over, ....You're about to be screwed!


Kent

manomet
04-05-2011, 08:54 AM
I carry a healthy dose of common sense and do my best to avoid places/situations where I need to shoot another human being. Had a concealed carry permit for over 30 years and have never used it for that purpose.I think half the people carrying are more danger to themselves and those around them than any potential bad situation they might become involved in and another 30-40 % either wouldn't shoot or would use their good judgment to deal with a situation in another manner. So if you remaining 10% find yourself in a tough spot please fire away.

klcarroll
04-05-2011, 09:10 AM
.............The 2nd Amendment not only includes my state but yours as well Sir. If you have a vehicle with 4 tires then may I suggest that you leave and move to Arizona, Texas, Montana, Utah, Wyoming, Arkansas, Mississippi, Alabama and Tennessee to just name a few..............


So your advice is to run away from the problem???


Kent

waksupi
04-05-2011, 11:01 AM
For those considering using your firearm for self defense. It sounds like some think they are going to be in a pitched battle on the streets. I doubt that happens. If you are in a shooting situation, you should be using every opportunity to put distance between yourself and a threat, rather than hunkering down to have a shootout. LEO's may be in that situation in very rare instances, but this is very seldom for them.

Deputy Sheriff Eric Stein Of the Keokuk County, Iowa Sheriffs Department was killed yesterday by a suspect that he and two other officers were going to question in a rural farm house. He was killed with one shot. The shooter was killed by state tactical squad a short time later.

RIP

BulletFactory
04-05-2011, 11:29 AM
My thoughts and prayers go out to them.

Its best to prepare for the worst.

Crash_Corrigan
04-05-2011, 11:50 AM
I am always carrying my Bulldog .44 Spcl. The small revolter only carries 5 rounds. But they are nasty. On a leather belt loop carrier I have another 12 rounds handy. And usually in the right rear pocket a handful of loose boolits.

On the motorcycle or in the truck resides at least two boxes of 50 rds each in .44 Special.

When carrying a different weapon I usually have at least two full magazines of ammo on my person and another box or two in my vehicle.

Also when I was an LEO I carried a New York Reload on my left ankle along with 24 rds of .38 on the gunbelt and another 30 in a mag carrier designed to carry two .45 magazines but was kinda handy for .38 Special cartridges.

I believe that you cannot carry too many rounds but you will pay the price if you carry too few.

Omnivore
04-05-2011, 05:28 PM
Three magazines on the person. 15 + 1 in the gun, and two extra mags each containing 14 rounds. Total 44.

I keep only 14 rounds in the 15 round reload mags simply because a full mag is much harder to seat into the gun with the slide forward.

It may be a lot of rounds but I have a two mag carrier. Why not keep it full? If one mag gets damaged or lost, you still have two. As the saying goes; "One is none and two is one." Something like that. So my three is two. What I keep at home or in the vehicle I'll keep to myself. It changes a lot anyway.

Political considerations are way down the list for me. If limiting yourself is the way to be popular, go all the way and hobble yourself, go unarmed in a wheelchair and stay handcuffed in public with a feeding tube and a colostomy if that floats your boat. You'll be worshiped like a god then I guess. It doesn't matter to me, so I'll never try to talk you out of it.

3006guns
04-05-2011, 08:49 PM
Two inch S&W Chief's Special in stainless, just a .38 special. Five rounds in the gun, five in my pocket or a quick loader if I'm feeling "Rambo-ish". There is one difference though....I know HOW to use this little gun and I'm quite good with it, but I also know how NOT to use it. It's not for bluster or show. I consider it a last ditch defense when all...and I mean ALL...else fails.

I've had to pull a gun once in my entire life in the San Francisco bay area, many years ago. Classic scenario....dark alley, guy with a knife, etc. One thing I discovered immediately is that the NRA is right: mere presence of a firearm usually deters a crime. The guy took off so fast I had to admire his running ability. It's nothing I'm proud of and I'm grateful that things didn't escalate.

montana_charlie
04-05-2011, 09:28 PM
In my estimation, klcarrol makes his case more adequately than either of those who are arguing with him.
One is too inclined toward drama to be satisfied with simple logic, and the other is speaking from the LEO walk of life ... which is so different from 'Average Joe' that the comparisons don't even relate to each other.

If I were advising klcarroll, I would say to chalk it up as a 'win', and let it go. He's never going to penetrate the mindset(s) on the other side.

CM

Just Duke
04-05-2011, 09:29 PM
I lost a former riding partner to a physco on medications. He shot Jimmy through his heart at Point Blank range through the glass of the door. Before the firefight was over I myself had fired well over 120 rounds. These were fired from my full R&R 16 and my 357 side arm. This was a very special occurrence and not normal but does show that you need all you can carry if working on duty as that is how I read the question. We had Jimmy lying on the porch of the camp which was on piers about 10 feet up. His partner, Mo Martello dove through the screen wire and found cover under the camp. He expended his normal 12 rounds that he carried and was empty hollering for help. I had just talked to Jimmy on the radio before he went 10-7 on the call. The siege was well over 6-7 hours long and erupted into a firefight several different times as the shooter would fire from a different position. I was on the swat team and had it not been for the several hundred rounds that I carried in a foot locker in the trunk of my unit many of the officers present would have been with out ammo. I'm not trying to preach here fellas but it can happen to anyone at any time. Say you are a civilian with a CCW and some nut confronts you and your family on a road that is not used that much. Your first six can go mighty fast with out the results you feel capable of. I said six because of my age and training but what ever it may be. Could very easy be a carload with each person armed. Many of my trainees would ask when they finished the academy this very question. My answer then and now is how much is your and your family's life worth in the cost of ammo. I also advise to swap out all your loaded ammo every six months. You may shoot it or save it for practice. If carry ammo in leather strips please replace it also. My older cops at that time had ammo that was almost impossible to remove and when it did it would not chamber. Keep it all up to date. I am not some Rambo cop but someone who has been there. A few extra boxes in the vehicle and at least three loads on your person is not a lot to wake up tomorrow.

Smart fella. Trust me.

Bret4207
04-06-2011, 06:34 AM
Threads like this are simply annoying. Who cares? One young guy wants to carry 500 rounds. Fine Let him. Another feels fine with 5. No prob! Have at it. This is starting to sound like The High Road or Glocktalk.

I usually have a Leatherman and not much else. I must already be dead.

10 ga
04-06-2011, 09:06 AM
As I have heard before there arn't but 2 kinds of ammo, enough and not enough! Being from the Chesapeake Bay region I have some relatives that hail from Tangier Island and according to them there aint but two ways to shoot, 1. until you are out of ammo or 2. out of targets and I don't ever intend to suffer from #1. I voted 40+ because that is the way I roll.
Best to all, 10

klcarroll
04-06-2011, 09:37 AM
Yeah, I agree . . . but how many gadgets and doohickies do you have on that leatherman?


Yup! .....I have to go along with you on that question!

Why do all the young guys have to have the "latest and greatest" in order to feel properly equipped??

"Leatherman"??? ......Hmmph!! ....The old "9 option" Swiss Army Knife has served me just fine for fifty years! (...Although I did lose the toothpick recently!!)

:kidding::kidding::kidding:


Kent

cajun shooter
04-06-2011, 09:48 AM
Well MC, It matters not to me if you carry none as you have missed the entire message of my posting. It also matters not if you want to pick a winner. There is only the information that I was passing on from real life and not any gun rags. If you have or will take time to read all of my postings you will find where I mistook the OP as meaning about LEO. After that I posted a idea for all who carry any gun and that was to use a tie strip to secure a speed loader pouch to your holster. If the carrying of 18 rounds is off from level then I'm guilty. I again care not what anyone else chooses to do. I do however wish that whether it be you or another that you made the correct choice. If it only requires the one round that is carried in the top pocket then I'll be very happy for you. When and if I post anything on this or any other forum it is given in the spirit of trying to help another person. I have dedicated my life to that idea of helping others. I in no way was trying to win any game. At 63 I chose not to play games but enjoy the years left. To finish them in bitter kids games is not my taken direction. Have a nice day Sir.

koyote
04-06-2011, 12:19 PM
Threads like this are simply annoying. Who cares? One young guy wants to carry 500 rounds. Fine Let him. Another feels fine with 5. No prob! Have at it. This is starting to sound like The High Road or Glocktalk.

I usually have a Leatherman and not much else. I must already be dead.

Well, There is a point. In fact, looking at cajun shooter's post has caused me to reconsider at a few things. The odds of my being in a long gunfight are vanishingly slim, but I've known a few people in my life who have had events just as vanishingly slim happen.

I won't modify what I carry on me much, but the though of having a handful of speed strips in the shop desk, the van, the leather room.... that's something I'll plan to do. In addition to the shotgun in the shop (coyotes), of course.

I don't have the problem of a Californian or a Vegasite with regards to a DA who would complain about me carrying too much ammo, but I also know that I won't carry at all if I have to carry 50 rounds of .44 special to strap on the revolver.


As for the leatherman, it's completely inadequate for two reasons.

1: it's not two. I carry a leatherman AND a swiss army knife because I regularly need pliers and a screwdriver....at the same time! Something to consider

2: you don't have the built in .45 muzzleloading derringer option. Didn't you know about that option?

garbear
04-06-2011, 12:33 PM
I carry a revolver(ruger sp101 in 357mag). 5 in the gun when hunting and 4 if I am in town. I also have 8-12 in my pocket usually. In my truck 200 100 in 357 100 in 38 special+P. All are reloads and cast bullets. I live in a rural county so don't expect to much trouble. Unless I run in to a coyote in a field.
Garbear

BulletFactory
04-06-2011, 12:53 PM
If it wasnt so inconvenient, and politically detrimental, I'd carry the M1a with the 20 rd mag. The dang thing is HEAVY, and I dont want to draw that much negative attention.

Wrbjr
04-06-2011, 12:58 PM
I carry 20 rounds in my 9mm during daylight hours and in familiar surroundings. After dark an extra mag brings the total to 36.

9.3X62AL
04-06-2011, 01:11 PM
"Politically detrimental". Succinct, that.

I carry the sideiron full and at least one refill near at hand. It's really no one else's business how another armed citizen chooses to go about his/her business.

Three-Fifty-Seven
04-06-2011, 02:09 PM
"Leatherman"??? ......Hmmph!! ....The old "9 option" Swiss Army Knife has served me just fine for fifty years! (...Although I did lose the toothpick recently!!)

:kidding::kidding::kidding:


Kent

I still got my toothpick! Picked this up in Port Ouchy Lausanne back in 1998
http://i153.photobucket.com/albums/s220/ShawnVT/SwissArmyKnife.jpg

Surprised when I got back to the states, that I could of bought here state side for less!



It has traveled with me to:
Switzerland
Italy
Poland
Germany
England
Scotland
Ireland
Mexico
Japan
Korea and 49 States, I just bought it AFTER my two trips to AK!

OH, and I forgot Austria too!

klcarroll
04-06-2011, 03:44 PM
That's my knife!!!!!!!!

.......And I suppose I shouldn't admit that I use the corkscrew a lot!:drinks:


Kent

West Creek
04-06-2011, 07:52 PM
I carry either 5 or 8 depending on the the gun. a SAA or 1911. For the most part I figure that will get me out of any trouble or back to my truck. I think the chance of me getting into a fire fight are absolutley slim to none even though I live near Gary, IN. I just dont spend alot of time in bad places. Live in the country and work is the suburbs so I think that any loaded gun will suffice is most cases especially if I feel confident in my abilities.

a.squibload
04-07-2011, 01:30 AM
Two inch S&W Chief's Special in stainless, just a .38 special...

JUST a 38? 38 is good stuff!
I was gonna applaud Crash for having a 38 BUG instead of a 25 or something.

Someone said "the best reload is another gun".
Maybe I can get onother gun if I stay away from Swappin & Sellin...

Artful
04-08-2011, 11:48 AM
I carry a loaded pistol with 2 mags - doesn't matter if the mags hold 6 or 16 - same drill, pistol and two mags - this is because if you have a Malf and need to drop a mag and clear and reload you need a another mag - if you have another Malf and need to do it again you'll need another mag. I agree situational awareness is key - I have never had to use my gun in anger and never had a human on the other end of one. I have used firearm against an animal. I consider firearms in CCW as a tool but your situational awareness and tactical decisions are key to your safety and survival.

You need to be aware enough to avoid a fight situation if at all possible, when I married my wife, she didn't understand at first that I had rules - hold my left hand not my right, I want to sit seeing into the resturant you can have the view I want to see the cash register, Always have at least 1/4 tank of gas never run to empty, etc. These are just rules that have been given been drilled into me by friends who have seen the elephant and care for my safety.

I first started carrying when a friend pointed out that if I came home the burglar would be armed better than me with my own guns and given my love of guns as percision workmanship may be better equiped than the response team coming to rescue me. He's also the one who drilled the two reloads always into me. This was a man who was LEO and ex military and who opinion's I respect. He gave me the drill and reasons behind and situation where he was either lucky and wished he had more resources (ammo, fuel whatever) or had the resourses and it saved his bacon.

You either plan ahead and prepare or suffer your unpreparedness - such is life.

Artful
04-08-2011, 02:51 PM
BulletFactory]
........Like going to school?



I think it would be a really good idea for you to clarify that remark!


KLC

I think this might also help clarify

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2011/04/08/opponents-gun-free-zones-universities-unlikely-hero-nevada-woman/

BulletFactory
04-08-2011, 02:56 PM
Bet she carries now.

Love Life
04-08-2011, 03:23 PM
9+1 in the gun with a spare 10 rd mag. Makes me feel all warm and fuzzy. Now if I could carry a purse like my wife I would have a small arsenal.

BulletFactory
04-08-2011, 03:27 PM
Dont you have to carry unloaded?

VenomBallistics
04-15-2011, 02:21 PM
Very complex question ...
If im in the car Im over 40 with mags at ready both on my person and in the arm rest.
if im out and about gun plus two spare mags or speed loaders depending on what I felt like packin that day

bearcove
04-15-2011, 02:45 PM
Threads like this are simply annoying. Who cares? One young guy wants to carry 500 rounds. Fine Let him. Another feels fine with 5. No prob! Have at it. This is starting to sound like The High Road or Glocktalk.

I usually have a Leatherman and not much else. I must already be dead.

Almost 50 years old and I don't carry a gun when out in public. Have one in the truck sometimes. Never needed it. OH!, and still alive.

Not LEO.

Most you guys are paranoid or hanging out in the wrong places.:violin:

People start getting stupid leave.[smilie=s:

ZERO. You forgot to leave that option.

sisiphunter
04-15-2011, 03:12 PM
well if we are talking on duty (in uniform)..... 45rds of 40S&W plus

4 rds 12ga in the old 870 and two extra in a pocket, plus 100 in my duty bag.

When "off duty" or at least not getting paid (out of uniform): 15 in the pistol and usually one extra mag of 15.

If hunting same goes for the pistol if I am carrying it and for my rifle usualy 20 on my person and another 20 in my bag or truck. Usually only takes 1 though, unless there is more than one quarry hahaha.

If we are talkign gophers in the summer at least 100 223 and about 300 or more 22's, depends on if my son is with me or not, he misses more than the old man hahaha.

bbodin
04-15-2011, 03:22 PM
15+1 in a Glock 19. 9mm

mustanggt
04-15-2011, 06:11 PM
I'd rather have it and not need it, than to need it and not have it. Put another way, when seconds count the police are minutes away.

wvmedic
04-15-2011, 06:39 PM
I currently carry one magazine, however I will soon carry two. As with carrying concealed I hope to never have to use it, but I am happy to know it is there if ever I need it.

Jeff

nouseforaname1246
04-15-2011, 07:03 PM
What nobody carry's only 5 rounds?

i voted 6-12 because there's no 5-10 :P i carry a Ruger sp101 .357 mag with 5 rounds or a Ruger LCR .38 special that also has a 5 round capacity. if im wearing a coat i throw a speed loader with another 5 rounds on it in my pocket.

honestly for everyday carry i see no need to carry more than whats in the gun, maybe an extra speed loader, anything more is unnecessary weight that is harder to conceal.

In my truck however i have a Springfield XD(M) .40 with 4 16 round mags loaded and a 100 loose rounds in the center console. along with a box of 357's in the door. so if i foresee myself going into a situation where i possibly might need more firepower i toss some more ammo in my pocket or just swap for the .40 and toss a mag or 2 in my pocket.

mephistopeles
04-15-2011, 09:09 PM
Para-Ord P14/45. 15 in the gun and 2 mags of 14.

mack1
04-15-2011, 10:18 PM
Almost 50 years old and I don't carry a gun when out in public. Have one in the truck sometimes. Never needed it. OH!, and still alive.

Not LEO.

Most you guys are paranoid or hanging out in the wrong places.:violin:

People start getting stupid leave.[smilie=s:

ZERO. You forgot to leave that option.

Better to have a gun and not need it than to need a gun and not have it. Leaving when people get stupid works very well when one is by himself but might not when family is involved. All of that said I have never needed a gun for two legged vermin but it has been handy many times for the four legged varity and I was glad to have it.

Mossy Nugget
04-16-2011, 05:59 AM
I was told that if you cannot neutralize an armed threat with three rounds or less, it won't matter. If the threat carries a weapon other than a firearm, the sight of your gun is very often enough deterrent. If not, double tap is statistically adequate for one assailant. Count six rounds for two baddys if only one has heat, if both are packing, all bets are off. A wheel gun alone should do the job with no need for extra ammo. How often you expect to miss determines how much ammo to carry. I expect to miss alot, but be too scared to reload quickly. I put 'em all in a high cap mag and hope it's enough, if hi cap mags are not outlawed someday......

jma1965
04-16-2011, 08:05 AM
What nobody carry's only 5 rounds?

i voted 6-12 because there's no 5-10 :P i carry a Ruger sp101 .357 mag with 5 rounds or a Ruger LCR .38 special that also has a 5 round capacity. if im wearing a coat i throw a speed loader with another 5 rounds on it in my pocket.

honestly for everyday carry i see no need to carry more than whats in the gun, maybe an extra speed loader, anything more is unnecessary weight that is harder to conceal.

In my truck however i have a Springfield XD(M) .40 with 4 16 round mags loaded and a 100 loose rounds in the center console. along with a box of 357's in the door. so if i foresee myself going into a situation where i possibly might need more firepower i toss some more ammo in my pocket or just swap for the .40 and toss a mag or 2 in my pocket.

5 rounds in my Makarov.[smilie=s:

koyote
04-16-2011, 09:26 AM
Yknow, to some extent I see bearcove's point. It's not only possible, but probable, that a person can go through a decent life without needing to fight if they pay attention to that as a goal.

I won't argue it. I've been around veterans who won't touch a firearm, martial artists and ex cons who would much rather take one punch than escalate.

It's not my choice. But I'm also not carrying to end the gang problem in ellay single handedly. Over and over and over again- I carry more for critters than human opponents. I'm aware of and prepared for that, best I can be, but it's not the only reason I own or carry a firearm.

357shooter
04-16-2011, 09:52 AM
Didn't vote as a 5 round (snubby) isn't an option. That's all I carry.

pistolman44
04-16-2011, 10:36 AM
I usually carry a custom compact 1911 .45ACP 7 total with this one. I read some years back that most police shoot outs that 3 shots are fired.

RJM52
04-16-2011, 11:01 AM
Have carried a Commander in .38 Super for 31 years...usually just the gun with 10 rounds in it is all I have on me. There are sometimes while out hiking I'll take an extra magazine so that would make 19. There is also an extra magazine in a carry bag I usually have around me. It holds a checkbook wallet, extra credit cards, extra flashlight, lighter, all the things I have needed while "out" but usually don't need on my person...

That being said, can anyone here come up with a documented case of a "civilian" (I have lots of LE examples) reload when after the reload was done more shots were fired or a case where someone ran out of ammo and was killed as a result.... I have looked for over 20 years, asking LEOs, internationally known trainers, on a lot of different boards and no one has ever come up with one... You would think with the thousands of actual defensive shootings that happen every year there would be lots of them...but I can not find a one.

Thanks....Bob

mustanggt
04-16-2011, 12:20 PM
To carry is not to try to solve the gang problem, it is to protect our loved ones. Just because you are armed doesn't mean you have to use it. You are obligated to leave and use it only as a last resort. I hope and pray that I go my whole life without having to bare it but it is there if I ever need to.

nanuk
04-16-2011, 10:13 PM
I usually carry less than 6-12..... a round of garlic sausage weighs in around a pound out of my buddies smoker.... 12 of them would feed me for a week!

XWrench3
04-17-2011, 08:31 AM
it depends on where i am going, and what the weather is like. if i am going to the city and the weather is not 80+, i will stuff my 12 round 45acp into my holster, along with a spare 12 round magazine. but if i am going to the store 1/2 mile up the road, or if the weather is extremly hot, i will just have the 380 bug. it is hard to hide a big 45 in shorts and a t shirt! besides, i live in the sticks, and the crime rate here is very low. probably partly because a lot of us here do carry. nad we are definitly off the beaten path.

raisinriverron
04-23-2011, 09:35 PM
Six in the revolver and twelve in loops or speed-strips. Probably over-kill, but twelve are just as easy to carry as six.
I live in Monroe County in Michigan; good guys with firearms outnumber bad guys with firearms. The only gunshots I hear after moving here 13 years ago are during hunting season.
But I am forced to travel outside the haven of my county for work or a variety of decent restaurants.

imashooter2
04-24-2011, 08:29 AM
What nobody carry's only 5 rounds?



You didn't look very hard. 3rd post... [smilie=s:

BulletFactory
04-24-2011, 12:09 PM
If 3 to 5 rounds was an adequate number, then the police and military would only carry as much.

Down South
04-25-2011, 12:19 AM
If I'm carrying SD then usually just a cylinder full. If I'm carrying on my ATV out in the woods, maybe 100 rounds or more just for plinking.

imashooter2
04-25-2011, 07:27 AM
If 3 to 5 rounds was an adequate number, then the police and military would only carry as much.

Your advice is duly noted Batman.

andremajic
04-25-2011, 07:30 AM
None. Lost em all in that tragic boating accident years ago.

Bret4207
04-26-2011, 06:38 AM
If 3 to 5 rounds was an adequate number, then the police and military would only carry as much.

That's a ridiculous statement to make to try and justify your position. The military obviously needs suppressive fire to maneuver, to take on large groups of the enemy. The police I know of rarely carried more than their basic issue which might be 18 rounds (revolver) or it might be 50. That's it. The rest is in the car some where. And police are not private citizens, they have more of an expectation of taking on multiple assailants or of actually running into trouble on purpose than we would. Pretty poor way to try and justify your opinion.

If YOU want to carry 300 rounds, 5 guns, 7 knives, some throwing stars and nun-chucks then by all means- go for it. I wish you all the happiness in the world. But trying to convince others that your opinion, and that's all you have here, is somehow more "right" than anothers is wasted effort.

BulletFactory
04-26-2011, 11:28 AM
If you think that you are going to face some different set of criminals than the police do, you're kidding yourselves. Its just a matter of who got there first, you, or the police.

Bret4207
04-26-2011, 12:16 PM
Well kiddo, I spent 23 years doing the job, I didn't ever need more than a couple rounds. You want to impart some more wisdom?

CZShadow
04-26-2011, 12:39 PM
My number is 42. I carry a 9mm Hi-power, I have 2 14-rounds mags, one of those in the gun, plus 1 in the chamber (cocked & locked); the other 14 rounder and a regular 13 rounder are in a double mag carrier, very close to my hands in the SUV.
Everytime this theme is posted in a forum, people fight. Take it easy guys, just do what you usually do, nobody is changing their ways because of other people's ideas on the web.

My opinion: if I have no choice, I'd rather shoot whatever I carry and survive to deal later with lawyers, bad judges or the world against me in court, than having my 2 girls and my wife, bury me crying, and staying here without me, alone.

Regards,
Rod

SharpsShooter
04-26-2011, 01:02 PM
Well kiddo, I spent 23 years doing the job, I didn't ever need more than a couple rounds. You want to impart some more wisdom?

...."snicker" good one Bret.:D

I was trained to fire until

a. target went down / activity ceased

b. I went down

c. ammunition expended

One 1911 and two spare mags for business purposes and a Ruger OMBH loaded with 5 and a spare 5 in a dump pouch on the belt for social times. How much I carry matters not a bit. How much I shoot and where it goes does...........


SS

mpmarty
04-26-2011, 02:30 PM
On my person, eleven rounds of 45acp all in the weapon. In my vehicle, 25 rounds of 12ga #4 buck plus a dozen rounds in my Saiga 12ga AK shotty.

Doble Troble
04-26-2011, 11:03 PM
Cold weather = 7 rounds in an officer 1911. Sometimes with an extra mag if I'm going somewhere that makes me more than usually paranoid.

Hot weather = 7 rounds in a Ruger LCP. Sometimes with an extra magazine if I'm wearing shorts that will take a big belt. 380 ACP sure makes me hope nothing bad happens. I really, really don't like summer around here.

Fire_stick
04-26-2011, 11:04 PM
anywhere from 6 to 12 depending on the gun I have with me.

singleshot
04-26-2011, 11:32 PM
Usually carry a derringer, holds 2, carry 4 extra rounds...i.e. 2 reloads. 6 total. Don't expect a fire-fight, but if I did, I'd have a rifle.

fredj338
04-27-2011, 12:08 AM
I subscribe to the one is none regime. Anyone caryring a semiauto w/o spare mag is just asking for a problem at some point. Since nearly all malfunctions w/ a semiauto are mag or ammo related & you NEVER know when that will happen, regardless of how tested the ammo & mags are, carrying a spare allows easier malfunction clearing & the benefit of more ammo should you need it. Even if I carred a G19 w/ 15rds, I would carry a spare mag.

Tracy
04-27-2011, 12:57 AM
On my strong side, I carry a SAA .45 loaded with 5 rounds. On the off side, I carry an Ideal tool with the built-in mould for the '191. I have a box of primers in a hip pocket, and a copper flask of FFg in a front pocket. I consider myself well-prepared for any shooting that needs to be done.

BulletFactory
04-27-2011, 12:57 AM
That was rude, condescending in the face of facts and logic. I bet you don't like open carry either.

Tracy
04-27-2011, 01:31 AM
That was rude, condescending in the face of facts and logic. I bet you don't like open carry either.
Who are you talking to now? Before you edited out the "typical cop attitude" comment and added the part about open carry, it was obvious you were talking to Bret. Now it sounds like you have redirected your comment. I could be wrong, though.
As for myself, I open carry every day.

BulletFactory
04-27-2011, 01:57 AM
The edit was because I felt it was a little too much., I decided to show a little respect instead.

DJ1
04-27-2011, 02:16 AM
Fully loaded plus at least one reload, usually 2 is my preferance.

:brokenima

NoZombies
04-27-2011, 02:35 AM
99% of the time I carry 13 rounds. 6+1 and another 6. sometimes the number increases to 15 including the 2 in the derringer.

Bullet Factory: carrying a gun doesn't make you a cop. There's a difference between the duties of a sworn peace officer, and those of an armed citizen.

BulletFactory
04-27-2011, 02:49 AM
Never said it did, only that the criminals that a gun carrier can face are the same ones that the cops face.

MO Fugga
04-27-2011, 06:45 AM
16 in the gun, 20 round spare sometimes. 10mm 155gr DoubleTap Barnes TAC-XP.

onesonek
04-27-2011, 11:27 AM
In the hunting field, I rarely carry more than a dozen since I hunt with single shots.
In the city, only 1+1 clips since firefights are highly unlikely.

I'm more in line with this thinking.
Unless I'm pack hunting way back in remote area's, I seldom carry more then 5 or six.
As for defense, if I need more than one mag., I wasn't very observant in allowing myself into a bad situation to begin with. If it is one of those sudden situations that is totally unavoidable, and out numbered where 1 mag isn't enough,,,,odds are I'm going to take a hit before I reach empty or reloading a mag anyhow. In which case 20-30 or more rounds ain't going to matter. Sometimes I think it's better, more than extra mags., it is best to have or to use a pepper spray setup that has both volume and distance.
Key is to avoid confrontations before they develope,, Keep your options open when they do. Best asset, is of that is mental preparedness, more so than just being well armed.

Bret4207
04-27-2011, 01:15 PM
Rude and condescending? Look, YOU posted a poll asking for opinion. Many the the answers you got don't agree with your personal opinion. So then YOU try and justify your OPINION by bringing the military and police into the mix. We aren't talking about the military of the police, I point out we're talking about everyday Joes and what they feel is adequate for THEM. You come back with more police related justification, I counter that I felt adequately supplied with what I had as a Trooper and you have the gall to come back with ME being "rude and condescending" and "typical cop attitude" and something about open carry?

Pal, you're losing this argument that never should have been an argument in the first place and making yourself look like a 4 year old that isn't getting his way. Stop while you're behind.

And for the record, I'm completely in favor of open/concealed carry and Joe Average DOES NOT deal with the same criminals a cop does. Joe Average isn't raiding meth labs, responding to domestics, assaults, burglaries and robberies. You asked a question, you got your answers, leave it at that please.

BulletFactory
04-27-2011, 03:34 PM
Sure we don't raid meth labs, but the same guy from that lab that shows up with the same weapon controlled by what's left of his mind at the local convenience store, its the same guy we both have to deal with.

Its not a losing argument at all to say that its better to carry more, than less, of what you need.

ktw
04-27-2011, 03:48 PM
Andy only issues me one round, under the condition that I carry it in my shirt pocket.

- Deputy Fife

onesonek
04-27-2011, 04:43 PM
Sure we don't raid meth labs, but the same guy from that lab that shows up with the same weapon controlled by what's left of his mind at the local convenience store, its the same guy we both have to deal with.

Its not a losing argument at all to say that its better to carry more, than less, of what you need.


Needs,,,or wants?
The first, I think in practical terms much like Bret has expressed. The later, well that's a whole different matter. Sometimes carrying 30 rounds may be practical, but I would see that as seldom need myself.

BulletFactory
04-27-2011, 05:30 PM
Feels like Im talking to the brady bunch here. Better to have a gun and not need it, than to need one and not have it.

onesonek
04-27-2011, 06:35 PM
No, Nobody is saying there isn't a need a sidearm or even a need to carry.
Just the bulk of what I gather, is how much to carry. Points being made, if you don't have control of a situtaion in 2-4 maybe 6 rounds fired,,, chances are you are not going to survive. Life isn't some TV or movie script. I would suspect in any self defense gun battle, it would done and over within seconds, not a matter of minutes.

Love Life
04-27-2011, 06:47 PM
I carry two magazines. Usually a Guns&Ammo and a Handloader.:)

Now if i were carrying a combat load it would be a M4 with a M203 grendade launcher attached. 8 30rd mags filled with 28rds apiece, 14 40mm HEDP rifle grenades, and 2 hand grenades. Strapped on my back would be the Benellie M4 shotgun with a blackhawk sling that holds 15 shells. Beat that!!!:holysheep

Bret4207
04-27-2011, 06:54 PM
Feels like Im talking to the brady bunch here. Better to have a gun and not need it, than to need one and not have it.

Ride and condescending. Typical.

No one is saying YOU shouldn't carry what YOU feel comfortable with, The problem is that you are trying to make other people agree with your opinion of what's right for you. Life doesn't work that way. 99% of the time I don't carry at all, but I'm not saying you should do the same. Do as you wish and stop trying to FORCE your opinion on other people.

shotstring
04-27-2011, 08:24 PM
When I was on the job, I carried a Sig 28 with 2 extra magazines and a S & W 9mm snubbie as a backup that would use the same ammo that was in my extra magazines in case my primary became unusable.

When I wasn't working, I carried a s & w mdl 49 or a walther ppk with no extra rounds at all. I felt equally supported in both instances. When the risk is lower, the need for extra rounds diminishes proportionately.

MoldyJoe
04-29-2011, 10:54 AM
Interesting thread, It's all about opinion and situation. A couple of months ago in Afghanistan I ws issued 45 Rnds of 9mm and 210 Rnds of 5.56. I "aquired" about double that and carried it all if off base. As an Air Force Engineer I didn't need it often but the situation and possible need were much greater there. At home I don't carry. Don't getme wrong, I agree with conceal carry and have a permit, I just think in my situation working where I do (Federal Govt) the amount of time I can legally carry is very limited. When hunting It depends as well. If Deer/Elk hunting i only carry 12-20 Rnds. If Duck/Goose hunting I carry 150 Rnds. If I had a different job and lived somewhere else I guarantee it would be different. Just my $ .02. Joe

Down South
05-02-2011, 09:14 PM
As in my previous post, I usually only carry a cylinder full. If I ever run into a problem where I have to use my carry piece, it will probably be face to face, up close and no more than one or two rounds will be needed.
I hope that never happens.
I don't frequent places that I think that I might get into a fire fight, but if you are in areas like that then I can see the need for extra mags or speed loaders. My advice would be to avoid places that would require that type of fire power because if a fight started you probably won't make it out anyway.
I sometimes think many that carry go just a tad overboard of what their actual needs may be.
I don't want the burden of carrying a high capacity pistol and one or two extra mags or one or two speed loaders for a revolver.
If you look at real situations that have taken place in the past, I'd think that most have been settled with very few rounds fired. I'm not talking about gang wars here. Just plain old going to the grocery store, Wally World, the dry cleaners, McDonnell’s, a nice restaurant, or any place a normal guy and his family would go. Plus just defending yourself against an intruder in your home in most cases have never required more than a round or two.

Carrying more than you are comfortable with becomes a problem in itself many times. Sometimes you don't carry because you just don't like that extra bulge under your waistband or fooling with loading all the extra mags, speed loaders in your pockets/belts is just to much to do to run down to the local grocery.

But to each his own. If you want to carry 40 rounds then that is your business and your right.
Myself, I’d rather carry more often with less than carry less often with more because I’m uncomfortable.

Just my $.02.

BulletFactory
05-02-2011, 10:14 PM
Im not getting where you're coming from with the claim of "the burden of carrying a high capacity pistol", when they are generally lighter, and slimmer than the revolvers you refer to. Especially when you can reload more rounds faster.

MO Fugga
05-02-2011, 11:10 PM
Comforting! Not comfortable.... Ain't no other way to roll. Why people bash others because of their gear is beyond me. Some folks like J frames, others prepare for war. So friggin' what?:drinks:

labdwakin
05-30-2011, 05:49 PM
Carry a 1911 with 8+1 and two spare Chip McCormick 10 rounders and a .357 snub as a backup with a speedloader. Keep a collapsed M-4 in the truck with 3 30 rnds. So I guess a total of 119 rnds.

XWrench3
06-01-2011, 07:38 PM
well, if we are counting whats in the truck, then i am well over 100 rounds. :redneck: usually between 13 & 29 on my person at any given time, unless it i am carrying a bug, then add an additional 13 to either number. and then there is one other option, if i am hunting, then............. [smilie=w::guntootsmiley: