Pietta revolvers 45 colt cylinders

[T-Bird]

I have a .44 cal '58 Remington repro that I have been considering getting one of the 45 colt cylinders for. I would shoot standard vel 45 colt rounds in it probably with the Ly 452xxx (190?) rnfp 250 gr. Does anyone have one of these guns with one of these cylinders? Do they handle standard 45colt pressures ok? Shoot Straight, T-Bird

[Dframe]

If you don't mind me hitchhiking. I'd also like to know. I've been considering one of these conversion cylinders for my ruger old army but would like some shooting impressions from those who've "Been there and done that"

[Bull Schmitt]

Two good sources of info on Remington Revolvers can be found here:

http://www.cascity.com/forumhall/index.php?board=55.0

http://www.scorrs.org/


Bull Schmitt

[lathesmith]

I have had at least 4 or 5 different '58 Remmys that I have used my Kirst Konverters with, and they all handled them very well. Personally, I would recommend a 200 gr or so bullet for these, as the 250+ grainers make them shoot high, and have quite a bit more recoil. I have use 250's through mine, but I wouldn't recommend a steady diet of them. Stick with the 200grainers (and less) at 900 fps or less, and expect your gun to last a good long time and give you years of shooting pleasure!

lathesmith

[coopieclan]

The R&D conversion cylinder works flawlessly in my 1858 Remington by Pietta.
I chose it over the Kirst because the gun remains stock for Black Powder shooting.
You can get cowboy load cartridges that are about like shooting 35 gr of Pyrodex.

If you shoot full power smokeless 45 LC cartridges look out there is some kick!

I find the cartridges to shoot straighter than my balls and powder.

My Pietta seems to have a weak loading lever latch spring, sometimes the loading lever drops down from recoil... I plan to replace the spring.

[NickSS]

I have and R&D cylinder for my 1858 Piatta and it shoots quite well. Standard 250 gr loads shoot about a foot high while 200 gr loads at about 850 shoot about 4 inches high in my gun. Now I mostly shoot it with 45 Schofield brass loaded with the same load I use in the black powder cylinder 28 gr of FFFG and a round ball. I load the ball over a lubed felt wad and seat the RB about halfway into the case and crimp it in place. This load works very well and shoots to the sights.

[T-Bird]

I ordered my cylinder back in mid may from Fall Creek Sutlers they had the best price ($240). I got it 3 days ago. Shot it yesterday with 235gr and 250 gr conicals over 6gr Tightgroup. Both shot well, but as y'all have experienced, about a foot high at 25yds. I guess I'll try a roundball load. I am interested in a smokeless load for the ease of cleaning. I never feel like I have my blackpowder revolvers clean enough when I shoot BP. Can you lube with Lee Liquid Alox? How about powder charge? Is Tightgroup suitable?

[T-Bird]

Tried 5.5gr Titegroup today, shot to point of sight not the best group, but ok. Only 500fps tho. Will press on. T-Bird

[lathesmith]

T-bird, I've never been able to get alox-only lubed bullets to shoot well in any of my revolvers; after a couple of cylinderfuls they always lead like crazy. These same slugs shoot great with 50/50 lube. Now, there are other guys in the forums here that swear they use alox for everything, and it always works great for them.

Anyway, you should be able to find a suitable load with Titegroup, but I can't recommend Alox lubed bullets for revolver loads. Rifle loads or single shot pistol loads maybe, but not revolver loads.
Personally, I use Red Dot with great success in my conversion; if you want to use more powerful loads in these conversions I would recommend going to BP or Pyrodex.

Good luck,
lathesmith

[T-Bird]

I would rather shoot conicals out of this gun, are there any taller front sights available? My sight is mounted with a single screw and dove tailed into the bbl. Ramp and sight are 1 piece. T-Bird

[T-Bird]

Shot again at the range yesterday. 7.7gr Titegroup, roundball 25yds. Did not chrono, load shot fair off sandbags but high. The previous RB load shot to the sights but was only 500fps. Lee makes conicals as light as 160gr for 45 colt. Anybody tried these in their Remmie? T-Bird

[Erich]

I've been considering one of these conversion cylinders for my ruger old army but would like some shooting impressions from those who've "Been there and done that"

As to DFrame's question, I picked up a Howell's/ R&D Conversion cylinder for my ROA not too long ago.

http://i225.photobucket.com/albums/dd222/505Erich/Handguns/6mar11ROA002.jpg

http://i225.photobucket.com/albums/dd222/505Erich/Handguns/6mar11ROA003.jpg

http://i225.photobucket.com/albums/dd222/505Erich/Handguns/6mar11ROA004.jpg


10.5 grains HS-6 (CCI magnum primer) over 255-gr RNL: M 922.3/ES 50.09/SD 18.92 (7" high)
http://i225.photobucket.com/albums/dd222/505Erich/Handguns/5mar11ROAHowells.jpg

8.5 grains of Unique under a 255-LSWC: M 925.6/ES70.34/SD 30.91 (5.5" high)
http://i225.photobucket.com/albums/dd222/505Erich/Handguns/5mar11ROAHowellsunique.jpg

You can see that Kenny's cylinders shoot pretty well, if high. Extremely pleasant shooting out of this big gun, very mild. I'd note that the cartridge cylinders are really not all that much faster to shoot than the percussion cylinders, what with the difficulty of loading them. I pretty much only use mine on those days when it's too windy for me to want to pour powder at the range. :)

[Omnivore]

Kirst says their conversions are for black powder or cowboy (light smokeless) loads only. Check their (Kirst or R&D) product descriptions.

Then again, I sometimes load my percussion Remington with 40 grains FFF black and it does great. I've gotten over 1,000 fps with 180 grain "Balletts", so you're not giving up much.

[T-Bird]

I bought a box of 200gr Ultramax200gr FOR 42$! . They shoot high but not as high. Has anyone tried the 165gr bullet? That may work- meaning have a poi near the sights. I have the adjustable "target" sights on my gun. I think the rear sight is inherently higher than a fixed sight. T-Bird

[lathesmith]

T-Bird, if your 58 Remmy has adjustable sights, it's a simple matter of making a new rear sight for it that sits lower than your current sight. That's what I did for mine, and with the lower rear sight 230-250 grain loads shot right to point of impact. You can also very carefully file down your current rear sight blade some, be sure and deepen the notch if you do this, but you might not be able to get it quite low enough for 230+ grainers. You should be able to get it low enough for 200 grainers though, which is plenty heavy for these revolvers anyway.

The only problem with this is, if you go back to shooting round balls you will be shooting somewhat low.

lathesmith

[Pertsev]

Have a R&D cylinder for a Pietta Remington in 45 Colt. Worked better than had hoped !Needed just a little fitting.
Stick to moderate loads,it likes lighter bullets. The LEE 200 gr RNFP seems to work well.

[T-Bird]

Lathesmith, thank you. I may actually be able to deepen the notch on the rear sight some after looking at it . As far as altering the sight further tho I don't know if I have the skill or tools. T-Bird

[T-Bird]

Lathesmith, after looking, I think I can file off some of the bottom ( I am limited by the windage screws) is that what you are talking about? T-Bird

[Hang Fire]

Few years back bought the Kirst gated Cylinder. Came with a template for relieving the recoil shield, was a simple job, used large round file then Dremel tool and different grits to finish out.

Found the heavier boolits not too accurate as the slower Remmy twist is for RB. Best I have found is a 185 grain SWC, but still shoots a bit high even with rear sight all the way down. Since pics have added a R&M ejector

http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y92/TANSTAAFL-2/P1010004-7.jpg

http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y92/TANSTAAFL-2/P10100022.jpg

[lathesmith]

T-Bird, I definitely just deepened the notch on the sight blade on my revolver. You can take a little off the bottom of the sight I believe, but not much. The best way to do this is to make a new rear sight that is not windage-adjustable, and get the notch filed in the right place. You can drop the point of aim quite a bit this way, and fine-tune it to your favorite load. Then, when you want to shoot RB's again, it's a simple matter to switch the unaltered sight back on.

I made one of these out of a piece of steel, I rough-shaped it with a hacksaw, and finished it with a fine file, before cold bluing. It took awhile, but it worked well.

lathesmith

[T-Bird]

Lathesmith, how did you secure the new sight to the gun? T-Bird

[T-Bird]

I removed the sight blade, filed it so that the bottom of the groove was level with the ramp. I removed about 1/32in? This got it shooting close enough with 200gr that I can take a small bead , hold 6 o'clock and hit the middle of a can @ 25yds. If I take more bead, with a ball the same thing . This may have solved my problem. Thanks for your help. Will try a few more range trips before I order a mold but this looks good now. Shoot straight, T-Bird

[Omnivore]

I assume you're filing the top, flat portion of the rear sight blade also, being as simply deepening the notch will do nothing to change POI. I bring this up becaue it is a common missunderstanding, not to offend. It's just that we get a lot of calls here about this sort of thing and I've run into it many times.

[Dframe]

The last time I adjusted sights it was on a 31 calibre replica. I made a new front sight (the old one was a brass bead) that was at least a quarter inch taller. I was eventually able to get it to shoot to point of aim but the sight was far from authentic and somewhat vulnerable to damage. To make it I turned a bead on a piece of round brass stock and superglued it in place until I was certain it was the correct height.

[coopieclan]

When I shoot my '58 with the R&D conversion there is a big difference between the store-bought rounds that I shoot.

1. Remington .45 LC is the strongest. I think it is going to blow up my gun.
2. Federal (American Eagle) is the medium. I can shoot these most accurately.
3. Ultra-Max Cowboy is slower but shoots tight to the sights.
4. Ultra-Max remanufactured shot low and slow and hard to aim.
5. Goex was closer to shooting cap and ball. Shot accurately.

I shoot the gun with black powder and cartridges... The more I do it,the more I like Cap and Ball.

[T-Bird]

I did not deepen the groove, I filed the bottom of the blade so that the level of the groove dropped to the level of the ramp. T-Bird

[Grapeshot]

I owned a Uberti '58 and a R&D Conversion Cylinder for many years. I found that it would shoot the standard .45 Colt bullets, 230 to 250 grains, about 6 inces high at 50 feet. So I got to experimenting. I found that regardless of the charge, smokeless or Black Powder, that 230 grain or the 250 grain bullet would shoot high. I shortened 100 nickled RP .45 Colt cases to Schofield length and tried them with those bullets. Same thing, to high. I then tried the 200 grainers. The POI came down slightly. I then tried the 185 grainers. Those came closer to POA but were still a couple of inches high. I then found some 165 grtain SWC's up in Maine. I bought a box of 500 and ran them though my swaging dies to produce a Hollow Based Round Nose bullet. Using APP and BP in the Shortened .45 Colt Cases I finally got it to shoot within one to 1.5 inchs above POA.

I had to shorten the .45 Colt cases because the Cylinder I had was counter bored for the rim of the .45 Colt and the .45 Schofield cases had a rim that was to wide.

[T-Bird]

I bought the lee 200gr mold with 6.5gr Titegroup it shoots about 3-4 in high at 25 yds if I take a very small bead. The group size is pretty good considering that I can't see the sights as well as I thought I could when I decided to buy the cylinder. T-Bird

[Grapeshot]

The only projo I did not try was a .454 roundball. I was contemplating using the RB when I found the 165 grain bullets. Had I gone with the RB load I would have coated the RB's with Lee's Liquid Alox.

[T-Bird]

I came close to buying one of those 165gr molds. Probably would have worked better. I can make what I'm doing now work, but I have to aim low. I will probably get tired of that and try to replace the rear adjustable sight with a lower, fixed one. T-Bird

[T-Bird]

I cut and made me a lower rear sight out of a steel corner bracket for a cabinet assembly. Removed the "target" sights secured the new sight to the gun with the sight screw. I used my Dremel to make the cuts. Went to the range today- slightly high (1 in) with a 6 o'clock hold at 25 yds with a full bead. Came home, painted the new sight with black grill spray paint I'M good. Bullet is the Lee 200 gr rnfp. T-Bird

[jbird]

I don't mean to hi-jack this thread. But my question is somewhat relative.

I inherited an 1858 replica that was made by Lyman. It is still in the box, looks new. Will one of these conversion cylinders fit the Lyman? I have seen them made for Uberti & Pietta & it seems that they are different. Are they all the same? If not, which one should I get?

[T-Bird]

No idea, never seen a Lyman 1858. T-Bird

[Wayne Smith]

Contact Lyman and find out who made it for them. I'll bet it was Uberti or Pietta.

[lathesmith]

Way to go, T-bird! That's exactly what I did to mine, I made a new rear sight that was non-adjustable, you can get the POI quite a bit lower this way.

The Uberti and Pietta cylinders are slightly different. The bolt cuts on the Uberti's are slightly wider, and the the Uberti cylinder is slightly shorter. A Pietta cylinder could probably be fit to a Uberti revolver with the right tools and know-how, but not the other way 'round.

As for who made those Lyman's, I have no idea; they could even be Spanish-made, which would complicate finding a cylinder to fit even more.

lathesmith

[T-Bird]

I'm happy as a dead hog in the sun. Shooting at 30 yds.(not 30 feet like on "Top Shot") I can tear a "natty light" can up with the Lee 200gr and 6.8gr Titegroup. Shoot Straight ,T-Bird