Is 40 SW a good Boolit to cast?

[Bkid]

Well what I mean is it ok to use the cast 40 SW Booolits? I would raether cast them than buy them. I just want to be sure that a cast lead boolit will hold up ok in 40SW. Also how about 9mm while I am at it?

[Kirk Miller]

I cast the Lyman 175gr tc out of a four cavity. In my Sig 229 it shoots very well as long as it is cast fairly hard. It seems, as if the shallow rifling requires a harder boolit.
Kirk

[Doby45]

40 and 9 are both good in cast. I use them in pistols and carbine.

[BulletFactory]

a .40 can be a real PITA. In hindsight, I would have bought a .45

[Crash_Corrigan]

The window for good accuracy and no leading is kinda tight. OAL is critical along with powder selection and boolit size. Generally a more difficult round to cast for than a 9 MM and much more difficult than the .45 ACP.

I just do not like the calibre. Too much snappy recoil and high pressure to get results which I really do not need. The .45 is a perfect target and ccw load. The 9 MM does well on targets and such but for CCW I would only use the new exotic hp rounds that are costly.

The 40 short and weak does not float my boat.

[BulletFactory]

I agree, except the weak part. The .40 isnt exactly a powder puff round.

[9.3X62AL]

The 40 S&W is a bit less of a PITA than the 9mm, largely because its chamber/barrel internal dimensions and its cartridge component dimensions are much more closely controlled than the 9mm, which can be all over the map. Neither of these is a good "beginner's caliber" for the reloader or the caster, like the 38 Special or 45 ACP. I view the 40 S&W and the 9mm as being similar to rifle calibers, since they run at high pressures--have fast twist rates in most barrels--and (esp. the 9mm) dimensional variances must be accounted for.

[Bkid]

Can I use WW to cast the 40 sw and the 9mm? I guess what I need to ask is , that alloy going to be hard enough for two calibers? Also I use Accurate #2 for my 45 and 40 calibers now. The 40sw`s that I am loading now are a copper jacketed bullet however.

[casterofboolits]

I mix an alloy that is very close to Lyman #2 alloy for the 9mm, 38 Super and the 40 S&W.

I have two Lyman four cavity #401638 40-175-TCBB and the both moulds drop boolits at 175 +/- one grain.

This boolit works well in my Tanfoglio autos with no leading problems.

[thegreatdane]

save yourself the frustration and eliminate one variable by ensuring you have ALL the copper fowling out of your barrel before experimenting with cast boolits.

[LWSTARKS]

I have been casting for the 40 for a while and having had any problems. I've been using WW in it as well. I have a couple of molds, a Lee swc, and a lyman rnfp. I prefer the Lee for the 40 and the RNFP for the 38-40.

[sqlbullet]

.401 cast bullets stand up fine to 10mm level pressures and velocities. 40 S&W levels are going to be fine as long as they are sized and lubed correctly for your gun.

[BulletFactory]

Will straight Lyman #2 work? Air cooled or water dropped?

[Doby45]

I would water drop.

[JRR]

I cast for my CV75 BSA using a RCBS 180 gr. flat point sized .401. I water drop them into a 5 gal bucket which has a towel submerged so the boolits don't hit the bottom too hard. Excellent accuracy at 25 yards with minimal leading.

To clean, I remove the barrel and submerge into cleaning fluid overnight. The next day I just wipe out the barrel and run a brush with a chore boy strand wrapped around it. Patch it out once more and then have a spotless barrel and re-install.

Jeff

[Rangefinder]

I don't shoot 9, but cast a LOT for .40. Straight WW works fine, but as mentioned before--size and lube correctly for your gun. Also, pay close attention to your seating depth and OAL. .40 isn't exactly a powder-puff load, and pressures need to be watched closely until you have your load dialed in correctly. Not to say that shouldn't or doesn't need to be watched anyway, just that it's not a real forgiving configuration if you have an "oops".

[mpmarty]

I shoot cast 170 gr Truncated Cone Lee boolits in my 10mm with no problems at all. Max loads of AA-9 burn clean and my Witness pistols eat them like candy. I dumped all my 40 short and weak to other folks for them to suffer with. 10mm is a much more cast friendly round IMHO.

[BulletFactory]

not trying to hijack, but how should I determine OAL? If you have been watching my posts, you'll know that Ive had a lot of trouble with my .40, and I'm basically lost. I know I need the barrel worked on, but thats about it.

[JRR]

The key to the 40 is to load as long as possible. This is a very high pressure round and loading long reduces it.

First, seat the boolit as long as the magazine will accept. Next, remove barrel and drop the round into the chamber. If it drops clean with a metallic clink, you are probably good to go. If it does not, then seat deeper until it does. This will determine your OAL.

A medium burning powder like Unique, Herco (my favorite), AA5 and AA7, etc. are best with the 40. AA2 is much too abrupt. The medium powders cannot be double charge accidentally.

Maximum OAL, and a powder that cannot be double charged are the keys to safety and accuracy with the 40.

Jeff

[sqlbullet]

JRR nailed in on COL. Seat them as long as you can and get reliability in your gun.

I run Lee 175 gr TL SWC and a Mountain Mold 205 gr RFN in my 10mm. I have a buddy that is in med school and gets free bullets from me cause I am a nice guy who runs the 175 gr bullets fine in his Ruger and XD. I don't know his charge, but I know he uses unique.

[BulletFactory]

Thanks.

[fredj338]

I find the 40 about the same as the 9mm top get really good results with. It's about matching powders to bullet alloy. I find the medium burners likw WSF & Unique work really well w/ a 175-180gr bullet runing 900-950fps cast from ww or maybe 3-1 ww/lead mix.

[CiDirkona]

Lee 175 TC -- These drop right at 180gr with water dropped wheel weights. I've got loads for 'em from that go all the way from 810fps to 1020fps with PowerPistol.

http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a110/cidirkona/IMAG0456-1.jpg

http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a110/cidirkona/IMAG0465.jpg

(Now, play Where's Waldo and find the boolit that somehow got no lube! ;) )

[Rangefinder]

2.5 inches left an 3/4 inches up from bottom-right corner. Bullet faces up with nose hidden and base/groove visible... :D took 5 seconds. LOL

[Bkid]

Does anyone use Allox for these calibers? If so how well do they work out?

[mpmarty]

Does anyone use Allox for these calibers? If so how well do they work out?

I do. I use 50/50 LLA and JPW for all my cast boolits in rifle and pistol. Works great for me. Bores are shiny and clean due I think to the JPW.

[Armorer]

I cast and load tons of .40 and 9mm. Just finished 1k of 9mm for my Mrs. Ruger. I did a lot of reading on this forum before deciding how to load and what powder to use for the .40. Mostly because it seemed like there were many folks having trouble with it. I happen to like HS-6 or Unique for both calibers. Lube with 45-45-10, size and load. Couple of my molds don't even need sized.

My ¢2
Armorer

[BulletFactory]

In hindsight, I would have gotten a .45.

[Doby45]

In hindsight, I would have gotten a .45.

I think you said that in post #4, glad your opinion hasn't changed since this morning. ;)

[Bkid]

I cast and load tons of .40 and 9mm. Just finished 1k of 9mm for my Mrs. Ruger. I did a lot of reading on this forum before deciding how to load and what powder to use for the .40. Mostly because it seemed like there were many folks having trouble with it. I happen to like HS-6 or Unique for both calibers. Lube with 45-45-10, size and load. Couple of my molds don't even need sized.

My ¢2
Armorer
I agree with gathering knowledge,that is the key to a good start.

I do. I use 50/50 LLA and JPW for all my cast boolits in rifle and pistol. Works great for me. Bores are shiny and clean due I think to the JPW.
That is a tumble lube correct? I have not heard about a 50/50 mix only the 45/45/10. Interesting thanks!

In hindsight, I would have gotten a .45.

Never give up just keep at it. I had a heck of a time getting my 200 GR. 45 SWC Boolits to work properly. I just kept at it and kept seeking knowledge. I own both and will load for both ,and the 9mm eventually.

[Armorer]

That is a tumble lube correct? I have not heard about a 50/50 mix only the 45/45/10. Interesting thanks!

It's the same mix except I add the "10" which is 10% mineral spirits to thin it out, make it dry harder, and faster.

Armorer

[Roundnoser]

I think you said that in post #4, glad your opinion hasn't changed since this morning. ;)

Man, you crack me up! Every so often you stick in some zinger...gives me a chuckle!

[BulletFactory]

me too, Haahhahaha I was just trying to drop the guy a hint, and hopefully save him a LOT of trouble.

[Bkid]

me too, Haahhahaha I was just trying to drop the guy a hint, and hopefully save him a LOT of trouble.

Thanks for the hint. I will still cast and load 40 SW ,trouble is my middle name. :bigsmyl2:

[Bkid]

It's the same mix except I add the "10" which is 10% mineral spirits to thin it out, make it dry harder, and faster.

Armorer

Thank you I am going to give this method a whirl. I read about this from a great write up from Recluse about a year ago. I Just need to get a hot plate and some JPC . I will order the molds from Midway .
I wonder if anyone uses Accurate #2 ? I just have a lot of it.

[BulletFactory]

Do you mean Lyman #2?

[Bkid]

Do you mean Lyman #2?

Accurate #2 is a powder for reloading.[smilie=l:

[BulletFactory]

oh dear, I thought alloy. DOH!

[geargnasher]

If you know enough to ask that, I think you know the answer.

Depending on your skill/knowledge set, tools, the dimensions of your chamber and leade and the level of performance you wish to achieve, it can be as simple as any other handgun caliber or it can be the nightmare that forever poisons you against cast boolits.

My experience: Either treat it as a .45 ACP and load in the pressure range that will get you about 800 fps or so, use a powder in the range of Clays or Unique, use air-cooled wheel-weights in the 11-15 bhn range, low-pressure lube, etc., OR....

If you want to load hotter, water-drop your boolits to get in the 22-24 bhn range, use SLOW powder like Blue Dot, Longshot, or HS6, get a custom expander die made that will expand your cases to .001" under sized boolit diameter, and use a high-pressure rifle lube like Carnauba Red or Felix lube, and work up near the top end of the safe velocity spectrum.

Forget liquid Alox and factory, jacketed-bullet expander spuds (way too small, causing undersized boolits and severe leading).

Gear

[Doby45]

If you know enough to ask that, I think you know the answer.

Depending on your skill/knowledge set, tools, the dimensions of your chamber and leade and the level of performance you wish to achieve, it can be as simple as any other handgun caliber or it can be the nightmare that forever poisons you against cast boolits.

My experience: Either treat it as a .45 ACP and load in the pressure range that will get you about 800 fps or so, use a powder in the range of Clays or Unique, use air-cooled wheel-weights in the 11-15 bhn range, low-pressure lube, etc., OR....

If you want to load hotter, water-drop your boolits to get in the 22-24 bhn range, use SLOW powder like Blue Dot, Longshot, or HS6, get a custom expander die made that will expand your cases to .001" under sized boolit diameter, and use a high-pressure rifle lube like Carnauba Red or Felix lube, and work up near the top end of the safe velocity spectrum.

Forget liquid Alox and factory, jacketed-bullet expander spuds (way too small, causing undersized boolits and severe leading).

Gear

Can I get an AMEN from the congregation???

[geargnasher]

I see I'm preachin' to the choir again! :kidding:

Gear

[Doby45]

I wasn't gonna get into the details or the nay-sayers, I figured you would be along soon enough when it came to the 40cal. :Fire:

[That'll Do]

Can I get an AMEN from the congregation???

AMEN!

I was hoping geagnasher would show up, the man know his stuff when it comes to cast and 40 S&W.

[BulletFactory]

Gotta agree with that, thanks for the help thusfar Gear. As soon as I get that barrel fixed, Im sure I'll be looking for your experience again.

[Bkid]

AMEN!! come on Preacher keep it coming!!!!!!!!
I have heard to much negative on the 40Sw,... yet I am one that you do not tell it can`t be done. I would like to thank all of you for the kind help and humor.
Billy

[Bkid]

I have loaded many 40SW rounds with store bought copper plated bullets,that was easy.So if cast is so much harder,why ?
I am thinking of using Vihtavuori 3N37 ,anyone use this powder? I hear it is very clean and works well with the 40SW. Any thoughts?

[sqlbullet]

I have loaded many 40SW rounds with store bought copper plated bullets,that was easy.So if cast is so much harder,why ?


I personally think it is because of the operating pressure of the cartridge. 35000 psi is well into the deformation range for most lead alloys. 38 special is dead simple for cast bullets, but 357 magnum offers additional potential challenges.

Same with 40 S&W and 10mm. Good fit, good lube, good barrel, and you are good.

If you have any variations in the fit, lube, barrel, they it can get problematic fast.

[geargnasher]

Deformation isn't something even factor in unless the gun tells me it needs a tougher or harder alloy. Richard Lee and I disagree on many things. However, the same things apply to the .40 that apply to any other cartridge using cast boolits, as stated so well above: Fit, lube, barrel all have to be good for it to work.

Many beginning casters can get themselves a basic setup, melt down some wheel weights and roofing boots, pour some half-decent boolits after a few rounds of casting, stuff them in their .45 ACP the next day with a sticky coat of LLA and enough 231 to barely make major, and have a ball at the range never knowing how many things they did "wrong" in the process. Some folks happily cast and shoot light loads in the "easy" calibers for years and never know (or their guns never make them NEED to know) any real specifics about what they're doing. I know firsthand what that's like, because that was my approach for many years, and with a qualtiy .38 Special revolver, a .30-30 Winchester, and low expectations, I was none the wiser. Some people expect light to moderate leading as a necessary evil of shooting lead and develop a fast and simple cleaning routine without ever knowing that a simple resolution of a fit or lube issue might completely fix it. These same people might then aquire a .40 or 9mm and do the same thing they always did, and then BAM! after a few rounts can't hit the paper, can't see the grooves in the rifling, and don't know what in the world they did wrong, not realizing that the sloppy fit, mystery alloy, marginal lube, and poor castings they've always used to good effect before won't cut it with the magnum-level cartridges.

Understanding that the .40 is a magnum level cartridge and all the things that go along with making cast boolits work at those pressures and launch conditions is key to getting in the right mindset to achieve success. Now, do you have to load it hot? NO. Just like the many people who reload 1,000 fps cartridges for their .357 Magnum revolvers you don't have to go wide-open all the time to shoot lead, and that makes things much easier. As long as the slide will cycle and the empties clear the gun, plinker-level cast boolit loads are a lot of fun to shoot and easy on the frustration meter.

Sometimes, though, the .40 just won't work with cast. Ask BulletFactory about his XD with no leade whatsoever. Won't work with cast no matter what you do except modify/replace the barrel. Another hiccup is that .40 brass is so short and has to be so freaking HARD to stand the high pressure in unsupported chambers, the part of the case that holds the boolit is hard enough to swage lead boolits way undersized and cause leading unless the undersized jacketed-bullet expander is replaced with a bigger one.. The .357 and .44 Magnums have long cases and a different anneal at the mouth, so the usual once or twice fired brass you pick up and stuff boolits into won't crush you boolits too badly even if they are a bit on the "green" (just cast, not allowed to age-harden) or soft side, and the standard .005-7"-under-boolit-sized-expander is used. The .40 and 9mm are the be-atches of boolit-squishing because of the hard "necks", and the Lee Factory Crimp Die with the post-sizing carbide sleeve that is so notorious for making good-fitting boolits into undersized lead-ers with one stroke of the press. Neither of this happens with the revolver magnums, and the .45 ACP brass is typically soft and thin enough not to be too much of an issue with typical undersized jacketed bullet expanders. Guess what? The .45 ACP operates at fully HALF the pressure of the .40, 9mm, and 10mm so the brass doesn't have to be as hard or thick, and often softer boolits can be seated in cases not expanded enough without getting smushed too badly, since the lead is strong enough to stretch the brass more as it shoehorns itself in. I've found that a custom expander spud is the single most important tool to have when loading the .40 with cast. While it is possible to load 24+ bhn boolits sized .002" or so over groove diameter (before seating) on top of stiff charges of powder and shoot them with little to no leading, my experience is that the accuracy won't be there because the consistency of diameter and amount of case swage from round to round varies too much. Best to expand the brass properly for the size and hardness of your boolits and then iron out any other wrinkles in the works, much better results to be had in the long run if you get fit and performance goals sorted out first.

Gear

[BulletFactory]

Just stick with it, other people do it, so you know it works. Im still going to make it work, you can be sure of that.

[Bkid]

Ok I`ll bite, what is a custom expander spud? What exactly does it do and how does it do it?

[BulletFactory]

It replaces the expander and puts the bell on the casemouth to seat the bullet easier. Deltaenterprises can make one for you. Its a little bigger in diameter than the origional, and prevents the case from swaging the bullet as it enters the case.

Its a good idea to measure the bullet, then seat the bullet, then pull it, so you can remeasure, and find out if there is a change.

IMO its a necessary piece of equipment for cast .40

[Bkid]

So sizing your bullets is not enough,you have to do this also, so you have more accurate shooting bullets. Wow that is all new information. I use a Lee Factory crimp die,and is this not good to use on the 40SW ? It worked great with the copper plated bullets. Sound like a hardness issue for sure. Since I am a jeweler I am going to look into copper plating from a company I have had a lot of plating done with. I will also talk to some people I know who load commercially.

[geargnasher]

The Lee FCD is no good with cast boolits if the die has the carbide sizing bushing in it like the sizer/decapping die does. Cast boolits are oversized and the ring will swage them to jacketed dimensions inside the case.

Gear

[a.squibload]

Gear: good explanation, thanks. I have only loaded a few 40s so far,
nowhere near factory energy, still would not want to get hit by one.
Accuracy was good by my informal test (cans got holes in 'em),
and all made the slide slide.
Previously only loaded "easy" cartridges, mostly 44 & 357/38,
usually didn't load them real hot and got acceptable results.

Shot some cast through my polygon barrel last weekend, about 10 rounds,
no leading, no kaboom, but they were relatively slow. Will look into a larger spud,
cast has got to be easier than swaging!
Of course I'll still swage too 'cause I like the way they look.

Lee FCD was a pain in the (choose body part) for crimping, switched to the RCBS.
I use the FCD to de-Glock brass, unless it's too beat up, then it becomes jackets.

[michiganvet]

I bought the lee 2cav TC 170 grain along with a sizing die and a set of loading dies even though I have nothing to shoot them in only because the wife brought home an awesome amount of once fired brass. I hope to run across a used camp carbine at some time in the future.

[BulletFactory]

Go to a gun buyback BS program, and pick one up there on the cheap. There is one coming up in Muskeegon.

[casterofboolits]

IMHO the 40 S&W if you pay attention to basics, is not rocket science. Slug the barrel, good lube, consistant loading pratices, and don't take it to the ragged edge. Some reloaders have the concept that only maximum loads will do. I'm a medium load guy and as long as the load functions the pistol, ejects the case, leading is minimal or nil and accuracy is what I consider acceptable, I'm a happy shooter.

A shooting buddy and I got the first two Tanfoglio 40 S&W pistols in the area. If you looked at the barrel hood at the right angle, you could just make out "9X21" where the etch had been buffed off.

We ordered 2,000 cases and 2,000 Winchester 155 grain TC condom bullets and started working up some loads. At the time I was also playing ith the 41 AE. The accepted gun rag wisdom at the time was that loading data for the 40 and 41 was interchangable.

I had a casting business at the time and was determined to cast for the 40 and 41. With the help of a friend with a machine shop, I had five small caliber Lyman four cavity moulds recut for 40 and 41 boolits. 40-145-TCPB and 41-165-TCBB and for a couple years I had a lock on these boolits. By mis communication, I ended up with three of the four cavity 41 moulds. But this made a nice plinking boolit for the 41 Mag.

I use a Lyman die set for the 41 AE and load my 40's on a Dillon SDB. No problems after a quarter century of loading the 40 S&W.

I also cast the Lyman #401638 40-175-TCBB and a friends son is on his second thousand thru his XD with no problems making IPSC major PF.

[gray wolf]

So far I have been doing OK following Gears advise and the suggestions of some others.
I have been loading tite group 3.8 grains for the 175 rcbs 38/40 bullet and the lee 175 TC.
Recoils like the 45 ACP with 4.3 grains of BE. function is great in the Beretta 96-- We just don't need to shoot max for 10,15, and 25 yard paper.
HOWEVER
I have cast some 200 grain ( read 205 grain ) RCBS SWC from a lend me mold and they are scary long bullets. It looks like very little room for any powder. I can load them to 1.140 OAL but it still looks like a bunch of bullet in the case.
I am a little worrisome about loading them. How do you all feel about this ? ( Gear ? )

[harley45]

So do you guys think the modified expander plug is a good idea for hot 10mm loads to?
I'm just starting to set up for 10mm casting.

[philthephlier]

My Beretta 96 has the following bore dimensions:

Bore .391
Groove to Groove .403

Bullets need to be no bigger than .401 to feed reliably so I was looking at .001" of air between each groove and the bullet without any bullet upset. I was shooting the Lee TL 175 SWC cast and sized to .401 and 13 BHN. It shot very well over 7.2 grains of HS-6. What I thought may have been some leading after 100 rounds was just smeared lube in the grooves. All came out with just a few strokes of a bronze bristle brush soaked in Kroil. I am guessing the bullet was still soft enough to obturate and fill the grooves.

[gray wolf]

.403 sounds a little big for a 40 (not doubting you ) .002 under bore would lead for me every time.

[Ausglock]

G'day All.
I've been reloading the 40S&W for awhile now with Lee 401-175-TC.
Shooting them out of a Glock35 with factory barrel.

Alloy is 5lb WW, 4lb Pure lead, 1/2lb 50/50 solder. Air dropped.
Sized .401 and lubed with Whitelable BAC.

Load is 5.3gr WSF in Win cases and Win primers.
Power factor is 177
Avg vel is 1011fps.
Nice accurate load.
virtually no leading after 300 rounds. A boresnake pulled through is all that is needed to get a shiny bore again.

A mate has an STI in 40S&W and his gun will also shoot my reloads with no leading either.

[XWrench3]

i shoot a bunch of them without any problems. i use the lee 6 cavity tc conventional lube boolit.

[geargnasher]

So far I have been doing OK following Gears advise and the suggestions of some others.
I have been loading tite group 3.8 grains for the 175 rcbs 38/40 bullet and the lee 175 TC.
Recoils like the 45 ACP with 4.3 grains of BE. function is great in the Beretta 96-- We just don't need to shoot max for 10,15, and 25 yard paper.
HOWEVER
I have cast some 200 grain ( read 205 grain ) RCBS SWC from a lend me mold and they are scary long bullets. It looks like very little room for any powder. I can load them to 1.140 OAL but it still looks like a bunch of bullet in the case.
I am a little worrisome about loading them. How do you all feel about this ? ( Gear ? )

Use slow pistol powder for the heavies, like BD or HS6, start with a little and work up carefully.

Gear