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DCP
03-26-2011, 09:15 PM
So why no Paypal?

Yes I know they're not Gun friendly but so are a lot of Cities and States. We all dont get up and move. Yes I know someone did.

Now with Gas hitting near $4.00 a gal and most likely over $5.00 soon
USPS MO fees and a stamp and a 3 to 5 day delay to ship your nearing $8.00 to $10.00 added to the price you paid

If you the buyer pay the paypal fee its adds only 3% to the price

A $100.00 item will cost about $3.00 more


With computers, cell phone, GPS. With some devices all the preceding in one. With Bill Pay and the ATMs It seems to me a bit old fashion

Please tell me why no Paypal and dont be shy?

Thanks

ktw
03-26-2011, 09:33 PM
I use it and like it.

This site takes it for donations. It's the only way to buy MP (Mihec) group buy molds here. I'm not seeing the problem.

-ktw

joatmon
03-26-2011, 09:35 PM
For some I've asked principle out weighs dollars.
Thanks Aaron

Charlie Two Tracks
03-26-2011, 10:15 PM
I use it. I have two different Mihec moulds and have donated to this site with it. There are other times also but I don't remember what it was.
edit: I sent money to my daughter in California.

Bulltipper
03-26-2011, 10:23 PM
I use it when I have to, doesn't mean I like it. They get you coming and going. Greed-bay tried to make it mandatory. They aren't gun friendly by a long shot. California isn't gun friendly. I moved to Oregon.
Bulltipper

thenaaks
03-26-2011, 10:38 PM
the post office is anti-gun. but it's ok to use their money orders? my post office always freaks out when i ship brass...almost wouldn't ship a bolt from a remington rifle. i hate going there...there's always a line and only one clerk working...one or two in the back talking, though. i can hardly get to the post office during business hours...seems they're only open when i'm at work...so i prefer to use paypal. you can send money using the "personal" tab to avoid their fees. or like others have said, it's only three percent. unless you're buying something really expensive, it's cheaper than driving and money order fees.

300winmag
03-26-2011, 10:47 PM
Check this link out, ebay owns paypal, paypal can put a freeze your funds for know reason. I know a few people this has happened to and nothing to do with ebay. SHAFTED

http://forums.ebay.com/db2/forum/Paypal/97

thenaaks
03-26-2011, 10:56 PM
Check this link out, ebay owns paypal, paypal can put a freeze your funds for know reason. I know a few people this has happened to and nothing to do with ebay. SHAFTED

http://forums.ebay.com/db2/forum/Paypal/97

there's an easy solution to that...don't keep any funds in your account. if you have a zero balance the money is either deducted from your bank acct, or credit card...paypal can't freeze either of those.

KYCaster
03-26-2011, 11:05 PM
Ummm.........lemme see if I can answer this one.

Brad and Sarah own a pharmacy...they compete head to head with Walgreens and RiteAid, and I can get on line and buy OTC stuff cheaper than anything I can find locally....

....but I can stop in on the way to have lunch with Mom, say hi to Brad and Sarah (nice folks), pick up the TP, vitamins and Preparation H I need and maybe the conversation will go like this...

"Hey Jerry, do you have time to fix the faucet in our basement bathroom?"

"Yeah, I'm having lunch with Mom, but I'm free after that."

"Great, here's a key to the back door. When you're done, leave the key on the kitchen table and lock up when you leave. Oh, I have your Mom's prescription ready; do you want to take it?"


Same thing with the insurance agent, the local "Stop N Rob", two gun shops, etc., etc.........

How much of the fee that you give to Pay-pal(or the on line vendor for that matter) ends up in your local economy and comes directly back to your pocket?

It pays to do business with the people who do business with you. Its a business plan that I've found works pretty well.

Jerry

300winmag
03-26-2011, 11:09 PM
A friend of mine operates a small hardware here in town, he excepts paypal. He sold a chain saw the guy paid with paypal $300.00 2 days later the man requested his money back from paypal said the saw did not work they gave it to him and took it out of Johns account and he never got the saw back.

thenaaks
03-26-2011, 11:12 PM
How much of the $1.15 that the PO charges winds up in the local economy? And I'm doing business with the guy on the forum who sold me some boolit-related item...he's getting the money...paypal is the means of getting my money to him. an easier (and less expensive) means.

300winmag
03-26-2011, 11:18 PM
How much of the $1.15 that the PO charges winds up in the local economy? And I'm doing business with the guy on the forum who sold me some boolit-related item...he's getting the money...paypal is the means of getting my money to him. an easier (and less expensive) means.

Not to argue by no means.
Paypal is o.k for buyers, but as a seller It could be risky but who knows your bank could crash tomorrow.

waksupi
03-27-2011, 01:52 AM
Not to argue by no means.
Paypal is o.k for buyers, but as a seller It could be risky but who knows your bank could crash tomorrow.

Good point. If you aren't already doing it, deal with a locally owned bank. They have skin in the game.

waksupi
03-27-2011, 02:00 AM
A friend of mine operates a small hardware here in town, he excepts paypal. He sold a chain saw the guy paid with paypal $300.00 2 days later the man requested his money back from paypal said the saw did not work they gave it to him and took it out of Johns account and he never got the saw back.

He didn't get the saw back before refunding the money?

DUH!

All in all, get over the Paypal thing. I bet I could look at nearly every bodies consumables, and come up with companies I would consider unacceptable for various reasons. Tell me you buy ONLY US made products.

shunka
03-27-2011, 02:40 AM
He didn't get the saw back before refunding the money?

DUH!

All in all, get over the Paypal thing. .

Ah My Dear Waksupi -

therein is the underlying problem with paypal for SELLERS.
The seller did not refund the money for the saw, paypal did.

When a buyer complains to Paypal that said buyer is ultimately unhappy with the transaction, then Paypal, acting on behalf of the so-called buyer (in this case scammer) withdrew funds from the selllers account and transferred them back to the buyer, often without prior notification to the seller or any sort mediation.

This actually happens with unfortunate frequency, and the seller has little or no recourse. Usually the seller is only notified after the fact, and often ends up eating the cost, and never gets the merchandise returned. As far as I have been able to determine, the sellers only recourse is a civil action, by which time everybody discovers to their great surprise that the buyer doesn't really exist, has done this to a number of sellers, uses a fake drop address, and has cleaned out their paypal account and disappeared with all the merchandise (from different vendors) and the refunded funds.

As a result of these sorts of draconian actions by Paypal, (as well as freezing or stealing funds if it determines a transaction is "gun related") quite a number of vendors I know, (especially those in the gem, mineral, and semiprecious stone business) having been burned in such a manner have stopped accepting paypal at all.

Paypal itself seems to be an interesting entity that no one can figure out how to police, regulate, etc unlike banks and such. As a result they can and do impose their own rules and enforce them at whim, with little recourse to the seller.

just my two bits
yhs
shunka

dromia
03-27-2011, 05:03 AM
I don't like Paypal as they seem to have it everyway.

However when buying from Johnny Foreigner its the only and cheapest game in town.

Its allowed me to trade easily with many of the fine members of our international community here on Cast boolits.

That deserves a bit of recognition

DCP
03-27-2011, 08:44 AM
Well all forms of payments can be rip off

I believe even USPS MO have been counterfeited

For a seller, I would be sure the buyer is Paypal Verified

I cant see ever paying an extra $8.00 to $10.00 for A $25.00 item. There are items I haven't bought because the seller wont take paypal. I will just buy a new one if possible.

My time is also worth something it takes maybe 2 min to make a paypal payment

When a buyer buys from seller there is a risk the seller isn't real, misdescribed, sends a empty box or wont send the item. I would think this would happen more than the seller getting scammed.

Buying local is a good practices, but I would never use the local rent to own, the local payday loan or the local hardware store whose owner is a jerk.

Thanks

troyboy
03-27-2011, 11:08 AM
I only use PP when I have to. PO money orders are a PIA. The problem with e-bay is that PP is the only game in town. If you want to do business there then you have to do it their way. It is what it is. Myself I prefer to send a check when a purchase is made. I like my business private. Times are changing and we have to roll with the punches. Sooner or later money will be a thing of the past. All transactions will be electronic. Not a whole lot anybody can do........

geargnasher
03-27-2011, 11:14 AM
For some I've asked principle out weighs dollars.
Thanks Aaron

Indeed it does. I used to have a Paypal account to purchase items from Ebay, but I haven't used either in eight years, since I discovered their principles.


the post office is anti-gun. but it's ok to use their money orders? my post office always freaks out when i ship brass...almost wouldn't ship a bolt from a remington rifle. i hate going there...there's always a line and only one clerk working...one or two in the back talking, though. i can hardly get to the post office during business hours...seems they're only open when i'm at work...so i prefer to use paypal. you can send money using the "personal" tab to avoid their fees. or like others have said, it's only three percent. unless you're buying something really expensive, it's cheaper than driving and money order fees.

The Post Office may be anti-gun, but they don't take a large percentage of the fees they collect in order to directly support anti-gun lobbying organizations.

Gear

imashooter2
03-27-2011, 11:23 AM
I have PayPal linked to an account that I keep $20 in. When I receive a payment I immediately transfer the funds to the account and then transfer them out, leaving only the $20. Someday, PayPal may beat me out of the $20. It's a chance I'm willing to take.

imashooter2
03-27-2011, 11:24 AM
The Post Office may be anti-gun, but they don't take a large percentage of the fees they collect in order to directly support anti-gun lobbying organizations.

Gear

You have documentation for this?

cajun shooter
03-27-2011, 11:56 AM
I think that a lot of Pay Pal stories are growing as the snowball goes down the hill. I use Pay pal when it helps me out in two ways. One is that I have a strong desire that when I purchase something I don't want to wait up to three weeks to receive it from using a personal check. Two, I'm a person who lives in the country and I have to drive 10 miles to the nearest USPO. I drive a diesel truck and I'm paying almost $4.00 a gal for fuel. It's much better for me to use Pay Pal as I save money. There is a feature that Pay Pal has that allows you to send money to a friend or family member for free. Check the personal tab and it shows the different options. I think that you are allowed two such transactions a month. I have heard all the horror stories about money being seized after using Pay Pal for a gun transaction. I will say that is not legal in any state and would need to see written proof. Now I'm not in love with them by no means and I have stopped doing all business with the sister company E-Bay for over a year. I had several hundred purchases over the years and spent thousands of dollars with them. I was sent a leather stool that broke after I sat on it one time. I paid about $26 for it. They chose to go with the seller on my refund request. That decision has cost them thousands of dollars. If they made all of them like mine they would have been out of business long ago. I also will close my Pay Pal if they cause a problem.

Echo
03-27-2011, 12:49 PM
I have PayPal linked to an account that I keep $20 in. When I receive a payment I immediately transfer the funds to the account and then transfer them out, leaving only the $20. Someday, PayPal may beat me out of the $20. It's a chance I'm willing to take.

Smart move. I think I will do the same.

I don't use USPSMO's - my credit union gives me free cashier's checques that are the same as money, and I use that system whenever the need arises.

MakeMineA10mm
03-27-2011, 12:52 PM
I don't like Paypal as they seem to have it everyway.

However when buying from Johnny Foreigner its the only and cheapest game in town.

Its allowed me to trade easily with many of the fine members of our international community here on Cast boolits.

That deserves a bit of recognition

I've done transactions on my groupbuys with overseas members and Western Union was used quite successfully, and they handled the currency exchange. I don't recall the exact fee, but it wasn't objectionable, although I recall that Paypal would have been cheaper.

I won't use paypal, because I don't like giving out my bank account information, in addition to their business practices and anti-gun principles. This only really hurts me as a seller, because it limits me from this type of transaction.

As a buyer, I have a checking account with free on-line banking, and I can send a certified bank check direct to anyone I'm paying, and the bank mails it direct and covers the postage!! The certified check is also free as long as I set up the payee via my on-line banking. (If I go to the bank, I think it's a dollar or $.50 per certified check...) Now this does limit me, since I don't have a way to enclose a letter with the check, so in those cases, I go to the credit union I belong to, and get a teller's check from them (for free) in the amount and to the payee and mail it myself.

So as a purchaser I have a completely free way and a very cheap way (<$1.00) to send out certified funds, depending on whether I need to enclose paperwork with it or not. I'd have to be buying something pretty cheap to not go over that with PayPal fees. (Yes, as dcp knows, I'm VERY CHEAP!! :-P I'm a top member of the CRB club!)

I think the real point that dcp is trying to make is that he doesn't have to get up out of his easy chair to do transactions with Paypal... C'mon, Rick, your truck doesn't get THAT bad of mileage that you can't run to the USPS for a M.O. when you get off work. The gas will cost you less than $.50!! Don't be lazy!! :p ;)

S.R.Custom
03-27-2011, 02:24 PM
I've got a credit card merchant's account through which I can accept credit cards over the phone. Yes, there's a monthly fee, but those get 'passed through' to the buyer in the purchase price. Either that, or I accept USPS money orders. That pretty much covers 75% of the transactions that come through here.

In the instances that these won't work for the buyer and the amount is a couple of hundred dollars or less, I'll just tell the buyer "Your personal check is no problem, and I'll get your order right out." If I get a check that looks odd for some reason, I'll just call the issuing bank and confirm the information to the extent they are willing, and they always have been to this point.

I've found that as a whole, gun people are much more stand-up about their finances than the general public at large; I've never had a buyer's check bounce. On the other hand, I've had a ****eload of problems with PayPal, what with 21 day holds on payments and the like.

PayPal & Ebay have done more to instill an atmosphere of mistrust than any crook ever has. They make their money from exaggerating and exploiting the fear and uncertainty associated with mail order, and for that reason more than any other, I refuse to do business with them. More broadly, I refuse to do business with any organization or company whose stock-in-trade is fear.

theperfessor
03-27-2011, 02:33 PM
I've held off getting a PayPal account for a long time, but I think I may finally open one. In a recent conversation with Ken (45Nut) I expressed my mixed feelings over this (convenience in buying and selling vs the political and business practices of PayPal) to him. He told me he had done some checking and that the PayPal folks donate to both sides of the political spectrum. In other words, they seem to act like a lot of other businesses - no matter who wins they want friends in high places.

I'm interested in becoming a Vendor Sponsor - I have some things I can make that I think some folks might be interested in - and so I will want to make it as convenient as necessary for customers to buy from me so I can get their goods on their way to them. I will, as I do now, accept MOs and even personal checks for my goods and services, but I can appreciate people wanting to use an online payment service.

A friend of mine runs an e-business that sells custom parts for light planes and other aviation related items and has strongly urged me to set up a PayPal account. He has mentioned what posters here have said - he regularly takes money out of his account and keeps just enough in it to cover ongoing purchases.

I have opened a totally separate account with my local Credit Union so any money moved into or out of a PayPal account would be through this. I'm open for advice on how to make things any more secure than this.

jameslovesjammie
03-27-2011, 02:57 PM
I don't know if Paypal is actually anti-gun. I think they are Pro-Money. The transaction they prohibit seem like a lawyer's list of things that could POSSIBLY get them in trouble.

From their Acceptable Use Policy:

"Prohibited Activities

You may not use the PayPal service for activities that:

1.

violate any law, statute, ordinance or regulation
2.

relate to sales of (a) narcotics, steroids, certain controlled substances or other products that present a risk to consumer safety, (b) drug paraphernalia, (c) items that encourage, promote, facilitate or instruct others to engage in illegal activity, (d) items that promote hate, violence, racial intolerance, or the financial exploitation of a crime, (e) items that are considered obscene, (f) items that infringe or violate any copyright, trademark, right of publicity or privacy or any other proprietary right under the laws of any jurisdiction, (g) certain sexually oriented materials or services, or (h) ammunition, firearms, or certain firearm parts or accessories, or (i) ,certain weapons or knives regulated under applicable law
3.

relate to transactions that (a) show the personal information of third parties in violation of applicable law, (b) support pyramid or ponzi schemes, matrix programs, other “get rich quick” schemes or certain multi-level marketing programs, (c) are associated with purchases of real property, annuities or lottery contracts, lay-away systems, off-shore banking or transactions to finance or refinance debts funded by a credit card, (d) are for the sale of certain items before the seller has control or possession of the item, (e) are by payment processors to collect payments on behalf of merchants, (f), are associated with the following Money Service Business activities: the sale of traveler’s checks or money orders, currency exchanges or check cashing,or (g) provide certain credit repair or debt settlement services
4. involve the sales of products or services identified by government agencies to have a high likelihood of being fraudulent
5. violate applicable laws or industry regulations regarding the sale of (a) tobacco products, or (b) prescription drugs and devices
6.

involve gambling, gaming and/or any other activity with an entry fee and a prize, including, but not limited to casino games, sports betting, horse or greyhound racing, lottery tickets, other ventures that facilitate gambling, games of skill (whether or not it is legally defined as a lottery) and sweepstakes unless the operator has obtained prior approval from PayPal and the operator and customers are located exclusively in jurisdictions where such activities are permitted by law."


So if you are saying they are anti-gun because they won't accept gun transaction, they are also anti-alcohol, anti-tobacco, anti-"hate crime", anti-drug, anti-plagiarism, anti-vibrator, and anti-knife. According to same webpage, they also require pre-approval to transfer money for online dating services. Does that make them anti-love?

https://cms.paypal.com/cgi-bin/marketingweb?cmd=_render-content&content_ID=ua/AcceptableUse_full&locale.x=en_US

troy_mclure
03-27-2011, 02:58 PM
if you are a chase bank member you can use "quick pay" and send money straight to peoples account!

and only chase bank gets access to their account info.

jameslovesjammie
03-27-2011, 03:00 PM
From the New Jersey Coalition for Self Defense:

PayPal Not Anti-Gun

Update 3/10/09
Because of the acuisition of PayPal by Ebay, which has tended to be fairly left-leaning, this information may no longer be applicable and should be viewed in the context of the times. We maintain the article, however, as an illustration of the intellectual honesty and quality information that we hope to provide to our members and the public at large.

Every now and again, we hear from a potential donor that they don't want to use PayPal because of their alleged anti-gun policy. This is just flat out untrue. Let us share our thoughts about why we should continue to use PayPal for donations and for purchases whenever it suits us.

If you view PayPal's firearms policies, they clearly state that they do not support payments for firearms. However, they also do not permit transactions for tobacco products, switchblades, pharmaceuticals, Native American artifacts, "mature audience" items, or dozens of other regulated items and substances that present a potential legal liability listed in their 'acceptable use' section.

Taken all in, all it is our belief that their policy amounts to nothing more than a business decision to limit their liability and minimize exposure to their shareholders by minimizing their risk.

By being party to the sale of a firearm transaction gone awry, the convoluted and disparate laws of the country could place their business in severe jeopardy of lawsuit. Just because a business chooses to limit their liabilit does not amount to an anti-anything policy.

PayPal is no more "anti-gun" than they are "anti-smoking", or "anti-drinking" because they also decline to permit transactions in tobacco or alcohol products.

The NJCSD's policy will continue to be that we support the use of PayPal to help forward our cause until someone can present credible and valid evidence that PayPal and/or eBay contribute to anti-gun or anti-freedom organizations such as Handgun Control Inc., the Brady Campaign, Million Mom March or other type of organization that undermines our right to keep and bear arms.
Overall, even if PayPal was in fact anti-gun -- and we stress that there is absolutely no evidence that this is the fact -- whatever few cents they might donate to undermine us from our transaction would be so outweighed by the benefit of the dollars used to forward our cause that it pales in the light of comparison.

The NJCSD urges you to continue to use PayPal for transactions, and to not let it hold you back from using your dollar votes to support your rights.

http://njcsd.org/joomla/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=1052:-10-year-record-would-vouch-for-expanded-gun-law-nc&catid=45:faqs&Itemid=41

I'm playing Devil's Advocate here. I don't like Paypal, personally. It takes a week to transfer money into your account but can leave the same day. They're just making money on interest while my transaction gets held up a week.

mold maker
03-27-2011, 03:31 PM
I have used PP for payments both on and off eBay for a long time. There has only been one occasion that a misrepresented product was sent to me.
PP, and the seller were notified and, and the problem quickly resolved.
Those that have a problem with PayPal, can still use GPAL. I just got notice that they are back in use.
For the convenience and small fee, PayPal is the best bargain going.
No extra trips to town.
No waiting for a check to clear.
No waiting for the USPS to deliver.
You get email telling you that the recipient had received your money.
I haven't sold anything that I could accept PP for, but I wouldn't hesitate for a minute.
It's a convenience folks, and a lot of it, for pocket change.

Roundnoser
03-27-2011, 03:36 PM
I have PayPal linked to an account that I keep $20 in. When I receive a payment I immediately transfer the funds to the account and then transfer them out, leaving only the $20. Someday, PayPal may beat me out of the $20. It's a chance I'm willing to take.

Thats a good idea...Think I'm gonna do that.

felix
03-27-2011, 03:36 PM
I will send a normal bank check for stuff. If that is not acceptable, I will do a direct wire xfer from my bank to theirs. I will not do third party xfers, unless through a mutual friend between me and the buyer/seller. ... felix

Gun-adian
03-27-2011, 03:52 PM
We've been using Paypal for a number of years, first for purchases, just to test the waters. When my wife started selling on Ebay, she used it to accept payments. It works great.

In Canada, international money orders are $6 + tax and if I write a personal cheque in a foreign currency, my bank rapes me in service fees. Paying the small percentage that some sellers charge for using Paypal (if they charge them at all) is waaaay less....and I don't have to drive anywhere.

I'm not happy about their "anti" views, but like anything, you take the good with the bad.

So far, so good.

Mike.

felix
03-27-2011, 04:01 PM
I agree, Mike. Folks in the finance business call that a "haircut". Get enough barbers and sooner or later there won't be any hair to cut. I wonder why the term "factory outlet" works so well. Do the customers think they are avoiding haircuts? Think so. ... felix

spqrzilla
03-27-2011, 04:27 PM
Paypal has very draconian terms of service. Paypal behaves in a high-handed way. And Paypal has been abusive to gun related sellers, confiscating funds upon changes of terms of service or interpretations of terms of service without notice.

And they forbid me from using them to deal with gun-related product sellers.

Why should I deal with Paypal at all is my question. I certainly don't intend to.

MT Gianni
03-27-2011, 05:31 PM
I take personal checks in sales and rarely hold them for an item sold on this board. I probably still have a paypal account but have not used it since they limited the amount of money that you could withdraw in any month without it being IRS reportable. I find paypal to favor buyers needs and inconvenience sellers. I have had 3019 minute waits at the USPO during the month of Dec, but not normally. I can buy a money order for about 50-60 cents at most grocery stores and drop it in the mail there. I guess as a seller I find it not to my advantage so as I buy I don't dis-advantage sellers either.

MakeMineA10mm
03-27-2011, 10:17 PM
I will send a normal bank check for stuff. If that is not acceptable, I will do a direct wire xfer from my bank to theirs. I will not do third party xfers, unless through a mutual friend between me and the buyer/seller. ... felix

Exactly!

Likewise, I don't get why some people DEMAND a USPS money order? They're asking for certified funds. Well, my bank checks, teller checks, and cashier's checks are all certified funds. They take the money out of my account in order to issue the check, so the money is already out of my hands/control, as long as I mail the check... If the seller gets my check in their hands, they've already got my money.

SO... Why do some guys so love to make me drive down to the USPS, stand in line for 20-45 minutes and pay a $1 for the M.O.? Are they trying to keep the USPS in business??

MakeMineA10mm
03-27-2011, 10:21 PM
I chatted with dcp tonight, and now I know the "rest of the story" as Paul Harvey used to say. Seems he had a deal fall-through because someone asked him to pay significantly more due to wanting to use Paypal.

Paypal charges the seller 2.9%, and the seller was asking dcp to send a flat amount that turned out to be 7.5%.

I guess it was smart on dcp to be aware of both sides of the Paypal system, so he knew the other party was being unreasonable. Perhaps that other party was trying to discourage use of Paypal??

Of course, we could connect it all up to G-Pal and why it had such hope/support for a short time. It was the gun-friendly version; too bad it fell apart and turned into a farce that cost a lot of people a lot of money...

So, good on dcp for being vigilant and NOT lazy! :bigsmyl2:

Jon K
03-27-2011, 10:55 PM
and if you think ebay & paypal are expensive........Gunbroker, sure ain't cheap!!

USPS MO.......pita.

Jon

KYCaster
03-28-2011, 12:33 AM
How much of the $1.15 that the PO charges winds up in the local economy? And I'm doing business with the guy on the forum who sold me some boolit-related item...he's getting the money...paypal is the means of getting my money to him. an easier (and less expensive) means.



I don't mean to sound like I'm picking on you, that's really not the case. From the reading this and another of your posts it sounds like our experiences with the USPO are polar opposites.

In the tiny town I call home, I rarely encounter more than one other customer when I'm in the PO. When shipping packages, they're required by their employer to ask about prohibited materials and always accept my answer without question. (their regs are available on the web) I've told them that I will ship and receive heavy packages and that I'm willing to pick up and deliver to their loading dock so the mail carriers don't have to deal with them.(they've never asked me to do that) I have no complaints at all about the service I get from the USPS.

About returning the fees to the local economy....
I doubt very much that the local PO generates enough income to cover the combined salaries of the four full time employees there. Add the cost of property taxes and building maintainence and I'm fairly certain that the amount that the PO returns to the local economy exceeds the amount I spend on postage and money order fees by a substantial margin.

Our decisions are based on our personal experiences. There is no right or wrong here, just different.

Jerry

imashooter2
03-28-2011, 12:37 AM
Exactly!

Likewise, I don't get why some people DEMAND a USPS money order? They're asking for certified funds. Well, my bank checks, teller checks, and cashier's checks are all certified funds. They take the money out of my account in order to issue the check, so the money is already out of my hands/control, as long as I mail the check... If the seller gets my check in their hands, they've already got my money.

SO... Why do some guys so love to make me drive down to the USPS, stand in line for 20-45 minutes and pay a $1 for the M.O.? Are they trying to keep the USPS in business??


Because I can trade USPS money orders for cash at the PO when I go to mail your package. I pay for the postage with nothing out of pocket and the excess goes into my slush fund for future firearms / reloading purchases that avoid "what did you write that check for" discussions. And the PO is on my way to and from work. The bank is 3 miles in the other direction.

But mostly, it's to annoy you.[smilie=1:

cavalrymedic
03-28-2011, 12:58 AM
PayPal is easy and convenient. Too easy. Too convenient. What burns me about them is 3% off of the top. They are not doing ANY work. Numbers flying around in cyberspace, that's all it is, so why do they get 3% of all the money that passes through their servers? When there is a cheaper option, I try and avoid PayPal, but like I said, they are way too easy to use.

azcruiser
03-28-2011, 02:34 AM
I don't use or have pay pal .I do use a visa Debit card or send a PO money order Heck I will even
send cash . I don't see why some only take the pay pal thing ?? But that's their business .I have used Po money order for group buys and would buy more molds if I could buy direct with a PO money order or Debit card .I'm getting to old to do the group buys Heck I could be in the ground before some arrive .

shunka
03-29-2011, 02:12 AM
One reason that I truly like a U.S. Postal Money order is that should any fraud arise, I can call upon the full power of the U.S. Postal Police, and the interstate federal regulations that may be violated. I have called upon that option in the past, and while it is neither pleasant or quick the resulting 100 tons-o-bricks that were about to fall upon the miscreants head caused them to rethink their position, and the goods (which had never been shipped in the first place) were miraculously delivered.

white eagle
03-29-2011, 09:48 AM
the post office is anti-gun. but it's ok to use their money orders? my post office always freaks out when i ship brass...almost wouldn't ship a bolt from a remington rifle. i hate going there...there's always a line and only one clerk working...one or two in the back talking, though. i can hardly get to the post office during business hours...seems they're only open when i'm at work...so i prefer to use paypal. you can send money using the "personal" tab to avoid their fees. or like others have said, it's only three percent. unless you're buying something really expensive, it's cheaper than driving and money order fees.

Its all about cut backs my friend
when you have one clerk that has to handle the mail
sort the mail
get some immigrant their passport
or do some thing other that work on your special package
it gets thin
cutbacks

MakeMineA10mm
03-30-2011, 01:41 AM
Because I can trade USPS money orders for cash at the PO when I go to mail your package. I pay for the postage with nothing out of pocket and the excess goes into my slush fund for future firearms / reloading purchases that avoid "what did you write that check for" discussions. And the PO is on my way to and from work. The bank is 3 miles in the other direction.

But mostly, it's to annoy you.[smilie=1:
LOL!! :mrgreen:

Well, that all makes sense, but it doesn't appear anything is happening at your end that wouldn't work with any other kinds of certified funds, except you may have to drive the three miles the other way to the bank. (Jessh, you're sounding like dcp sounded in his initial post complaining of a short drive. Don't you go to your bank once or twice a week anyway? Combine banking tasks and kill two birds with one stone, err, trip, and then it didn't cost you anything anyway...)

I've seen this on other threads, and it's clear on this one too: There is VAST differences in post offices that we all use. I live in a city of about 40,000, and our USPO is always busy. I've never been there with a wait less than 20 minutes, and I've stood in line as long as 45 minutes. With working two jobs, having a family, and very little time for me and my hobbies, I HATE wasting time. The four to five people who always work the counter there are always super-nice, but I've turned to using the automated postal teller in the lobby for everything, just because of time. (And, unfortunately, it doesn't do MOs.)

I've actually turned deals down for the sake of dealing with the USPO wait line... Certified funds are certified funds as far as I'm concerned.


One reason that I truly like a U.S. Postal Money order is that should any fraud arise, I can call upon the full power of the U.S. Postal Police, and the interstate federal regulations that may be violated. I have called upon that option in the past, and while it is neither pleasant or quick the resulting 100 tons-o-bricks that were about to fall upon the miscreants head caused them to rethink their position, and the goods (which had never been shipped in the first place) were miraculously delivered.

This is a good point, but similar/same can be accomplished by some other federal agencies with other forms of payment (assuming the deal is crossing state lines). And, if I'm reading this right, this is a protection as a buyer. As a buyer, I take care of safeguarding myself by sticking to deals where I can verify the person, place, and/or reputation of the other party in the deal.

I'm more complaining as to why a seller demands it. It's certified funds, but so are several other forms of payment. From a seller's point of view, accepting funds, it doesn't make any sense to me that they'd need a USPO MO over another form of certified funds?? :veryconfu

imashooter2
03-30-2011, 07:26 AM
LOL!! :mrgreen:


I've actually turned deals down for the sake of dealing with the USPO wait line... Certified funds are certified funds as far as I'm concerned.



That's fine. I know that some folks won't buy when I list USPS MO as my payment method. You're willing to pass up the deal and I'm willing to be passed up.

I don't go to my bank but maybe twice a year to get into the safe deposit box. Electronic transfers have eliminated the weekly banking chore.

DCP
03-30-2011, 08:22 AM
I just asked a question (Why no Paypal) and gave an example. :bigsmyl2:

Sometimes an item that was a bargain, with all the costs, just adds up to be too high. You might as well buy it new. If I really want, need the Item,or cant buy it new I will go to the bank or PO.

With electronic banking. I just dont go to the bank much any more.

Its seems to me everyone has a opinion on this (this is what I wanted to find out)

If you limit yourself to send or receive just one form of payment you will miss out.

This is a personal choice we all have a right to make.

leadhead
03-30-2011, 09:13 AM
I saw a guy on e-bay that does NOT accept paypal.
How does he get away with that?
Denny

Ed K
03-30-2011, 03:06 PM
I'm more complaining as to why a seller demands it. It's certified funds, but so are several other forms of payment. From a seller's point of view, accepting funds, it doesn't make any sense to me that they'd need a USPO MO over another form of certified funds?? :veryconfu

I'm pretty sure you can go to your bank the day after mailing certified funds and put a stop payment on the check. Probably results in fraud of one sort or another but I believe the mechanism exists.

Tazman1602
03-30-2011, 03:23 PM
BINGO!

Was just about to post that IMA. PRO are a PAIN! Gas is $3.65 gal here. PO is six miles not to mention MY TIME.

I am much more likely to do business with someone who bothers to move into this century and takes Paypal than I am to run to the PO unless I really want something BAD.

Add up gas and time and that $1.50 may be $10 by the time you're done.

Paypal = 30 seconds.......

Heck I shop at Walmart too - I ain't proud of it but its CHEAP......

Just my opinion........worth nothing.....



I have PayPal linked to an account that I keep $20 in. When I receive a payment I immediately transfer the funds to the account and then transfer them out, leaving only the $20. Someday, PayPal may beat me out of the $20. It's a chance I'm willing to take.



Sent from my DROID2 GLOBAL using Tapatalk

tackstrp
03-30-2011, 03:52 PM
i use where and when i can

Doby45
03-30-2011, 04:14 PM
If the seller will only take Money Order or Cashier Check, I do not buy from that seller.

Charlie Sometimes
03-31-2011, 08:46 AM
Sellers can donate any portion of their E-Bay sale to the NRA Foundation now.
When posting an auction, look for the option to select a worthy charity and find that one.
It's the only Pro-Gun fund on the list, I think.
Gun people can do something for "The Cause" this way through E-Bay and PayPal.
Look for sellers who are donating to the NRA Foundation too, if it concerns you that bad.
They credit the seller their auction fees back, IIRC.
I don't think many people are aware of it yet.
I only discovered it when I saw an option to donate to the Japanese troubles.

E-Bay only allows you to post PayPal or other electronic payment methods in your Auction ad, too.
You can not accept money orders, etc. by their rules, but many do. Wording is eveything in the ad.

PayPal is accepted other companies on the web- it is just too convenient to ignore.

Charlie Sometimes
03-31-2011, 08:55 AM
SO... Why do some guys so love to make me drive down to the USPS, stand in line for 20-45 minutes and pay a $1 for the M.O.? Are they trying to keep the USPS in business??

You can use the money order at time of shipping to pay for the postage. They won't take money orders from other companies. USPS has been less counterfeited, too. Eveything else you must go to your bank and deposit the funds. Using a USPS MO save time and trouble- same reason people are using PayPal!

bravokilo
04-02-2011, 04:21 AM
LOL!! :mrgreen:

Well, that all makes sense, but it doesn't appear anything is happening at your end that wouldn't work with any other kinds of certified funds, except you may have to drive the three miles the other way to the bank. (Jessh, you're sounding like dcp sounded in his initial post complaining of a short drive. Don't you go to your bank once or twice a week anyway? Combine banking tasks and kill two birds with one stone, err, trip, and then it didn't cost you anything anyway...)

I've seen this on other threads, and it's clear on this one too: There is VAST differences in post offices that we all use. I live in a city of about 40,000, and our USPO is always busy. I've never been there with a wait less than 20 minutes, and I've stood in line as long as 45 minutes. With working two jobs, having a family, and very little time for me and my hobbies, I HATE wasting time. The four to five people who always work the counter there are always super-nice, but I've turned to using the automated postal teller in the lobby for everything, just because of time. (And, unfortunately, it doesn't do MOs.)

I've actually turned deals down for the sake of dealing with the USPO wait line... Certified funds are certified funds as far as I'm concerned.



This is a good point, but similar/same can be accomplished by some other federal agencies with other forms of payment (assuming the deal is crossing state lines). And, if I'm reading this right, this is a protection as a buyer. As a buyer, I take care of safeguarding myself by sticking to deals where I can verify the person, place, and/or reputation of the other party in the deal.

I'm more complaining as to why a seller demands it. It's certified funds, but so are several other forms of payment. From a seller's point of view, accepting funds, it doesn't make any sense to me that they'd need a USPO MO over another form of certified funds?? :veryconfu


I agree about USPS MO's being a pain....... however.... IF you take a postal MO to the post office they check to make sure it is legit and pay you CASH. NO counterfeit MO, closed account, NSF, stopped payment or disputed charge. CASH!! No waiting a few days or a week to make sure payment has cleared. There is no way I know of for somebody to force a reversal of payment once the MO has been cashed. I hope that explains WHY.


BK

bhn22
04-02-2011, 10:45 AM
The only time I ever got ripped off on an auction was through Paypal. You're only allowed one complaint as a buyer. So, the seller didn't ship my item, and didn't answer my e-mails. After a couple of months(!), I filed an issue with Paypal, who nailed the guy, and he shipped the item immediately, and provided Paypal with the proof of shipping. They then released the funds to him. When I received the item, it was obviously counterfeit. Paypal simply said "sorry, you had your one complaint", Then they stopped replying to my e-mails. I compained to E-bay, who said the guy was already suspended, and there was nothing more they could do. At that point, I closed my Paypal account, closed my Ebay account, and never went back. I would love to buy moulds from Mihec, but it will never happen because he requires Paypal. Nothing is worth dealing with them again.

PatMarlin
04-02-2011, 02:30 PM
PayPal phobia... :roll:

I'd be pressed hard to find more mis-information than what's posted here on this topic.,

Above- one complaint? Maybe this happened 7 years ago? You can email and submit as many complaints and updates on a dispute as you want. You just don't understand where and how to do it. What you are describing is not accurate today.

I've done thousands of transactions with PayPal since they started with 2 businesses. They had problems initially. They don't hold your funds, unless you keep a balance there. They hold the funds in reserve until the dispute is resolved. They cannot grab funds out of your bank account.

You can get a real live helpful (American) rep on the phone there during business hours. Out of thousands of transactions as a seller, I can count on one hand any disputes. Everyone of them was resolved fairly.

My mother is a flaming lib and I'm a flaming conservative. Should I boycott her also?

PayPal is safe and fair, and well worth the cost considering expenses these days.

Do they make boatloads of money? Probably. They've made a ton from me.

If you are having a problem with them, you just do not understand how to resolve it, how to work their website, and how to get help there.

MakeMineA10mm
04-02-2011, 02:35 PM
I'm pretty sure you can go to your bank the day after mailing certified funds and put a stop payment on the check. Probably results in fraud of one sort or another but I believe the mechanism exists.

I believe you may be correct. I've never done it, but I seem to remember having it explained to me at one time. The flip side of this is that there is a charge to stop payment, again, IIRC.

For those of you looking at the Paypal as simple and inexpensive, keep in mind there is a point of diminishing returns. If you pay a few hundred dollars or more for an item, that 2.9% adds up to more than if you'd drag yourself down to the bank to get a cashier's check. Just an FYI. (I know once I get locked into a routine, I often don't think about little nuances like that on unusual [i.e. higher-value item] deals.)


I think this thread really shows how different groups of people have had varying levels of success or failure with all the various methods. Some people have no use for banks. Some people have no use for USPO MOs. Some people have no use for Paypal. It's kind of funny really. It looks like there is NO perfect system, and we all exclude ourselves from certain deals or sellers/buyers depending on their terms...

Ironically, I trust the members here more than any other forum I participate in, in large part because we all seem to be pretty active participants and therefore have a reputation to protect. Yet, as trustworthy as I think any and all of you are (and I believe most of you would feel likewise, if the Swapping and Selling Forum is any indication), we all pass up deals with each other. Ironic.

bhn22
04-02-2011, 04:11 PM
PayPal phobia... :roll:

I'd be pressed hard to find more mis-information than what's posted here on this topic.,

Above- one complaint? Maybe this happened 7 years ago? You can email and submit as many complaints and updates on a dispute as you want. You just don't understand where and how to do it. What you are describing is not accurate today.


Phobia... Thanks for that, Pat. I explained only one of my reasons for not dealing with Paypal, and get this ****. I didn't even start on their policies for dealing with gun related transactions, but shared an actual experience. They have done nothing to merit a second chance, and won't get one.

PatMarlin
04-02-2011, 04:48 PM
I wasn't trying to single you out as the only comment. These threads come up with comments that do promote false info with PayPal in my opinion- or snow ball the "Evil PayPal" myth.

I was addressing your comment about "just getting one complaint and you're locked out of the deal", which is the way I read your comment.


To each his own payment wise.

G. Elser
04-02-2011, 05:56 PM
I don't like Paypal for the daily buisness, for every day I prefer hard cash or bank transfer ... yeah I 'm old -fashioned.

However when buying from "foreigners" its the cheapest game in town much better then buying with credit card.

Its allowed me to trade easily with many of the fine members of our international community here on Cast Boolits.

Regards

G. Elser

theperfessor
04-02-2011, 06:01 PM
Well, I guess in some people's eyes I have surrendered to the Dark Forces, because I finally opened a PayPal account. I wanted to be a Vendor Sponsor and the easiest (not the absolute cheapest) way to pay was via Paypal. I don't want to discourage any class of customer, so I'll take personal checks, MOs and now PayPal.

I can understand both sides of the argument here. As a buyer without a PayPal account I stopped buying stuff on ebay when PayPal became the required payment method. I could always get a MO free from my credit union. And I got a lot of them. Then I started adding things up - the time to stop in and get a MO (10 minutes+ and I drive right by it on my way to work), the three, four, five day delay to get the letter to a seller, $0.44 postage per letter, etc.

My time has value, and if I can use my time more efficiently then I'm willing to pay a little to do so. And if my customers feel that they are using their time better by ordering and paying online then I want to be able to accommodate that. If they feel better paying with a MO or check then I want to accommodate that also. I am, at this point, willing to put my trust in my customers to do the right thing and honor their commitment no matter how they choose to pay.

PatMarlin
04-02-2011, 07:30 PM
I believe when the dust settles, PayPal is still the safest form of online transactions. Safer than your credit card processing, and provides some recourse if a deal goes bad.

If you can show concise, simple documentation in writing (email) stating and supporting your position, and it's a solid one, they will rule in your favor. Have with me anyway. Every time.

I've had unfair chargebacks from credit card bank processing, that actually supported deadbeat rip offs. I won't go there anymore.

To bad firearms can't be processed through PayPal, but it's their prerogative as a private business.

DCP
04-09-2011, 07:01 PM
I have seen sellers wanting more than 3% to take PP ( supposedly for added cost.)

On the other end,I have seen sellers want you to check gift when you buy to bypass PP fees.

To me these may be a red flag and may be a hint to the sellers integrity.

Just my 2 cents worth

troy_mclure
04-09-2011, 08:28 PM
i wont buy from somebody that asks to be gifted. if they screw you you have no recourse.

Charlie Sometimes
04-10-2011, 08:55 AM
Well, the option is provide by PayPal to use it for non-E-Bay transaction. I would have to reread the rules governing it's use, but that is my take.

You can send money to your student who is away at school, and not take a beating for a large monetary transfer, etc. Would you want to pay a fee for that kind of transaction? By your reasoning, it would be only FAIR to not cheat them out of their rightful dues. They have provided alternate options. Those options are there to use to your advantage, so why not? You've got to have a better reason than what I have seen, so far.

Adding 3 or 4% to your price to cover the fee is not a sound business practice either. :veryconfu It just increases the charge for the transaction, so you still don't recover the fee either way. :groner:

DCP
04-10-2011, 09:26 AM
Charlie

You can send money to your student who is away at school is exactly what the gift option is for.

Now is some one ask a buyer to use the gift option say to pay for lead. I believe this may be fraud.

When the seller charges the buyer 3% for a PP payment the seller is recovering his PP fees.

Credit Cards merchants charge sellers 1.9% to 4% to take payments all the time.

Charlie Sometimes
04-10-2011, 09:55 AM
Under Personal tab it lists several options- gift, payment owed, cash advance, living expense, and other. Under Purchase tab it lists Goods, Services, and E-Bay items.

Now, under the whole SEND MONEY heading it specifically states- "You can pay for purchases and services or send money to friends and family." My emphasis added.

Now if you are in this for profit, as in a business or as a vendor, then you should probably use the section that charges fees, but I am an individual, and not out for making profit on this stuff. I turn it all back into my hobby. I have probably taken a loss on the things sold, especially as seen from the original value or cost.

Now, if you are not on my friends list, should I charge you more? I consider all here a friend, even if you aren't on that list due to the nature of the forum and our mutual interest, so should I not provide everyone the same consideration? Neither Gift or Payment Owed options charge fees. Saying payment owed would not cross your "fraud" line- despite neither requiring a fee.

If it will cause you to loose sleep over it, then do what is necessary to prevent that.

Charlie Sometimes
04-10-2011, 10:07 AM
Credit card companies charge the sellers user fees out the wazoo- something to the effect of $4000 or more a year just to have the machine AND a 3 or 4% transaction fee.

If you pay cash, and I pay with card, the price is the same. The retailer fees are built into the item cost.

A seller who adds an up charge to his asking price and uses PayPal for payment will loose a portion of that charge because the fee taken is based on the reported end dollar amount of the sale- you loose a greater amount than you would have before, especially if you cross the line taht increases the fee rate.

Tom Myers
04-11-2011, 12:09 AM
This is the method that I use to calculate the asking price for items that will be paid for through Pay Pal.

My Pay Pal buisness account is charged $0.30 per transaction plus 2.9% of the total amount paid.

To determine the transaction fee to add to my price, I use this formula for domestic transactions.

Let P = the price I am charging for my item.
Let T = the total my customer will have to pay.

It is set it up like this to determine the formula to use.

T = 0.029 * T + 0.30 + P
T - 0.029 * T = 0.030 + P
0.971 * T = 0.030 + P

T = (0.030 + P) / 0.971

So, if I want $10.00 for an item, I will add thirty cents to 10 dollars and divide the total by 0.971 to calculate a Total of $10.607.

My asking price for the $10.00 item $10.61.

Pay Pal will take 0.029 X $10.61 = $0.31 + $0.30 flat fee which equals $0.61 leaving me with $10.00

Hope this helps.

Charlie Sometimes
04-11-2011, 08:36 PM
Yep, that is the way to do it, especially for a business. :smile: