Colt 1860/62 design?

[condorjohn]

Last weekend I got a Pietta 1862 Sheriff 44. While looking it over I noticed a couple of features I'd never seen. So, I looked at all the 1860 type on GB, some of the repros had them and some not, all the Colts did.

Just wondering if these features have some function. They are cut outs on the both sides of the lower recoil shield. (I think that's what it's called)

I've had a few of these over the years but, never really noticed...

Condor John

[Johnny_Cyclone]

Four screws in the frame above the trigger guard, notches in the recoil shield, and a notch in the bottom of the grip frame means it could accept a shoulder stock.

http://t0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTkdSTBLGQO0veuk1_9GmfUW0bgwvJ6D 6UXo8NaVmPFsr_0F3eFXw

or at least that's how I remember it.

[elk hunter]

On original Colts the civilian models were cut that way to accept a shoulder stock, the military contract ones did not have the cuts, at least not on the ones I've seen.

[square butte]

I'm pretty sure you have it backwards. Civillians are not cut, and military are... Go to the Cimarron firearms website and look at the pictures of 1860 armies. I have one of thier 1860 army civillians and the recoil shield is not cut for shoulder stock.

[condorjohn]

Thanks for the info. Seems like mounting a sholder stock on a 5.5" Sheriff mod would be usless. I guess Pietta just uses the 1860 frame and calls it good...

[StrawHat]

Colt did the same thing. There are Colts out there that have the notches cut but no fourth screw and some with the screw but no notch. Also some without the notch in the back strap.

As far as using the reproductions to look back at history... there was no such thing as an 1862 Sheriffs model, in any caliber.

[405]

You have to consider the lack of numbers and variety of repeating shoulder arms during the Civil War to put the Colt 1860 shoulder stock in perspective.

Pics of original Colt 1860 with the screw pattern/side and butt cut outs for the shoulder stock.

[condorjohn]

While looking around on BING, I thought I saw somewhere that Teddy Roosevelt ordered some of these 5.5" Colts in 36 cal for the New York PD.
I do realize that one like this was never made. Should still be fun...
CondorJohn

[StrawHat]

That is the Pocket Police revolver. It and the Pocket Navy (octagon barrel) were both made on the smaller frame of the Baby Dragoon. 36 caliber but in a much smaller package and with 5 chambers. They were/are very nice little revolvers. I have several.

The revolvers I was referring to are the ones such as the Model 1862 from italy that is a six shot 36 with a 5.5" barrel, no such critter. It is merely a short barreled 1861. It is a peeve of mine and probably should have remained unsaid.

[condorjohn]

StrawHat, I just got this one at a gunshow 2 weeks ago. It's a 6 shot, 44 cal. As I said, I know it is not a copy of a gun that was ever produced but, when I finally get to take it out and shoot it I'm sure it will be a HOOT!
Thanks for your input... Condorjohn

[NickSS]

I got a real non gun that never was made until recently. It is a Uberti 1873 SSA colt clone done as a percussion revolver. You have to take the cylinder out to load it will a separate loading tool. I bought it due to the extremely good price Cabella's was selling them for. I will say this for it It shoots very well and is smooth as silk in operation.

[jhrosier]

When I got my 1860 Army a few years back, I was hoping to find a shoulder stock for it.
The stocks don't seem to be very common.
I found one on an auction site once, but it was more than the cost of the gun.

Jack

[Multigunner]

Colt made a number of different styled shoulder stocks for specially ordered 1851 Navy revolvers. I don't think any of the civilian revolver stocks looked like the military model, and no frame cuts were needed for those. On the downside the civilian stocks did not look very securely mounted.
Some of those cased sets included carbine length barrels with ladder type long range sights.

The 1860 Calvary model with stock attached was pretty accurate for what it was, though not very powerful as pistol carbines of the day went. effective range of about 125 yards if I remember correctly.

The older dragoon fitted with a stock carried a lot more punch, nearly as deady as the Winchester .44-40 and more powerful than the .44 Henry.
The .44 Henry used about the same powder charge as the 1860, but got a much higher velocity due to the long barrel.
The Dragoon used around twice the charge of the Henry, but even the longest barreled version did not get much more velocity if any more, it did use a heavier bullet though. I think the Walker and Dragoon used a 260 grain conical bullet over 50-60 gr charge.

I've read an historical account of a Dragoon sgt killing a mad Grizzly with two shots to the heart at close range. the pistol was described as a "Colt's Dragoon Pistol, of the Largest size". So it definitely had some mojo.
The Surveyors the sgt was protecting had emptied two Colt Navy revolvers into the bear with no visible effect. They found the bullets had barely penetrated the hide, no more than two inches of penetration in muscle. The heavy slugs from the Dragoon had gone deep ,stopped the old bruins heart, and dropped him in his tracks.

[Multigunner]

I got a real non gun that never was made until recently. It is a Uberti 1873 SSA colt clone done as a percussion revolver. You have to take the cylinder out to load it will a separate loading tool. I bought it due to the extremely good price Cabella's was selling them for. I will say this for it It shoots very well and is smooth as silk in operation.

Those are nice.
A French collector on another board told me that a similar revolver he had bought in France had a problem with the cylinder recoiling into the breech and denting it with an impression of the ratchet. He fixed his by fittling brass studs into the rear of the cylinder to take up the space were cartridge rims would have been.
I don't think his pistol was a Uberti, so yours may not have that problem.

[jhrosier]

....
The Surveyors the sgt was protecting had emptied two Colt Navy revolvers into the bear with no visible effect. ....

That is interesting when you think of all of the stories about how popular the Navy Colts were because they were such good manstoppers.

Jack

[NickSS]

A navy colt had about the same power when loaded with conical bullets as the 38 long colt of the late 1800s and early 1900s. The army went back to the 45 caliber becasue the 38 did not have sufficuent stopping power to put down a hopped up Morro tribesman in the Philippines. The were well liked because they were relatively light and good point shooters. They killed just fine but they were not man stoppers.

[StrawHat]

A navy colt had about the same power when loaded with conical bullets as the 38 long colt of the late 1800s and early 1900s. The army went back to the 45 caliber becasue the 38 did not have sufficuent stopping power to put down a hopped up Morro tribesman in the Philippines. The were well liked because they were relatively light and good point shooters. They killed just fine but they were not man stoppers.


Some additional info, in "SIXGUNS" by Elmer Keith, he mentions two oldtimers he knew who both served during the ACW. Both men told him that the round ball from the 36 Navy Colt was the preferred projectile as it anchored enemy combatants better than the conical.

[condorjohn]

The information, from StrawHat, on the on the 1862 Police got me looking around. I found this and just had to have it.
It's an Uberti .36 cal, 5 shot, 1862 Police with the Old West Antique Finish. Got it off GB. Can't hardly wait to get it and shoot it!!!
Condorjohn

[StrawHat]

condorjohn,

That is a closer copy of the Pocket Police (Model 1862). A lot of fun to handle and shoot. A 36 revolver that actually has a little recoil! A photo of mine.

http://i214.photobucket.com/albums/cc194/StrawHat/IMGP1438.jpg

[StrawHat]

The Pocket Police revolver also dresses up nicely. Here are a couple I wish I owned but enjoy looking at even though I do not own them.

http://i214.photobucket.com/albums/cc194/StrawHat/62pocket.jpg

http://i214.photobucket.com/albums/cc194/StrawHat/FrenchColtInside11.gif

The story of the cased Colt can be read here.

http://www.windsurfingbible.com/French.htm