mystery leading

[ss40_70]

something happened today and im not sure what . it was decent out today so i broke out my 45-90 rolling block to blow out the cobwebs and shoot up a few cartridges left over from last fall first two shots i sent into the back stop to foul the barrel and gave it my usual wet patch then dry and settled in to get a group first 5 shot group was well over 6 inches at 100 but i shrugged it off as being out of practice next 5 shot group 2 shots hit the paper and 3 shots i have no idea where they went , i then wiped the bore again and found the leading . it starts about halfway down the barrel out to the muzzle . what the heck caused this ? this barrel has never leaded before and its the same load ive been using for over 2 years now .. same lot powder same batch of 20-1 alloy from roto metals same bullet mold same spg lube same fiber wad , matter of fact i did everything the same as usual , a couple fouling shots a quick wipe and blowtubing with 4 breaths between shots , humidity was about normal at 65% and the temp was about 45 except it being a bit cooler than usual conditions was right at the norm ... what the heck caused the leading , im open to all comments as ive never had a leading issue before im not sure where to start diagnosing the problem

[Skipper]

cartridges left over from last fall

Do you think that maybe the lube "went south" during storage?

[ss40_70]

im not going to discount that skipper but the spg lube feels and smells the same as when i origonaly lubed them

[405]

If these carts have been loaded for a few months then either something has happened/changed with the loaded rounds or something has changed with the bore condition of the rifle. My first impression is the same as Skipper- lube? But, hard to say. It would be grasping at zephyrs to absolutely say one thing caused it.

I have noticed that certain rounds (not all) if left unfired for months do different things than those loaded and shot fresh. You might load 7 or so fresh with the original load recipe, repeat firing on target and see what happens.

The other thing would be the bore surface/oxidation/residue/etc.??

[RMulhern]

You've just been exposed to why I've shot nothing but PAPER PATCH bullets the last few years!

NO LEADING ISSUES!!

[ss40_70]

its not a issue to relube the bullets as they are slip fit in the case and theres only 13 left over , bore condition , i do keep my rifles clean and oiled as humidity here is normaly high , when i ran a patch down the tube before firing it came out with just a touch of oil on it but otherwise just as clean as when i put it away visably it was mirror bright and shiny ........ rmulhern you do make a very valid point for patching as its become very clear i have yet to master these greasers i daresay im not nearly ready to make that plunge .. yet

[oldracer]

Where were the loaded bullets stored and how was temp and humidity controlled with them? The reason I ask is that I have not seen any posts about moisture (humidity) being drawn past a slip fit bullet into the powder area and does it cause any effects such as deterioration of the wad(s), etc. I did have one local shooter in the San Diego area tell me when he gave me several rounds to test and I noticed they had a "seal" of lube where the bullet entered the case, he said it was to seal them from temp and humidity changes>

[Baron von Trollwhack]

Is not bore leading mostly attributable to lube failure in the shooting condition?

BvT

[ss40_70]

i think lube is a good place to lay the blame ...

[ss40_70]

im not sure what to make of this but the weather was decent today so i got the 45-90 back out and shot the 13 rounds i had left from the batch that leaded up my bore .. not sure exactly why i did this but i did ... the results , no leading whats so ever . i couldnt even find a tiny little speck . so i loaded up another 50 rounds of the exact same load .. and still no lead was to be found ... i have no clue what caused it the first time and as long as it dont happen again i dont think im going to waste to much time thinking about it . what i did learn today .. i must of been off my rocker to buy a rolling block in 45-90 63 rounds was 50 to many

[semtav]

did you do anything different in your conditioning the barrel before the first shot?
I've been doing some experimenting with different conditioning methods. Haven't come up with anything I'd care to put down yet, but I have had a few catastrophies in the leading dept with a couple methods.

[ss40_70]

semtav , i dont do anything realy to condition the bore normally all i do is wipe out the excess oil from the bore and dry the chamber and then 2 fouling shots . it is possible that i did not wipe the excess oil out of the bore the day i had the problems as i can not recall for sure if i did

[Kenny Wasserburger]

I know some of the guys we shoot Creedmoor quit using Kroil, due to the fact if not wipped out well before a match it will cause leading?

That could of been your issue. I had kinda forgoten about that.

KW
The Lunger

[montana_charlie]

I have had a few catastrophies in the leading dept with a couple methods.
Do you think your brother could help with any of those?

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/picture.php?albumid=88&pictureid=3680

[semtav]

Do you think your brother could help with any of those?




8-) Obviously not!!!! he's about as dumb as he looks !!

[ss40_70]

kenny , i dont use any kroil on my rifles out of fear for my blueing , but like i mentioned i cant remember for sure if i wiped all the oil out of the bore i do remember sending a loose patch down the bore but not anything tight enough to realy clean out the oil and if kroil can cause leading im sure the vintage ww2 oil i use can do the same could very well have been the cause , im just hopeing it dont happen again

[Kenny Wasserburger]

Kroil will surely grab the lead, However I even wipe it on the muzzle afterwords and use it to clean powder fouling around the front sight. So far have no issues with it removing the bluing on my Shilohs at least.

Another thing that will grab lead is wippping and running a dry patch down the bore afterwords while shooting GG Bullets, had major leading issues with leading there. I know run one damp patch down the bore and leave as is when shooting GG's Paper patch thats different I wipe 2 dry patches after 2 damp when shooting Long Range with PP rounds.

KW
The Lunger

[ss40_70]

i did not know that , and im guilty of 1 wet then 1 dry , think to be on the safe side of things ill change my wiping to 2 damps and see if acuracy suffers .. might save me some future headaches

[montana_charlie]

kenny , i dont use any kroil on my rifles out of fear for my blueing ,
You probably have confused Kroil with WD-40. Some say WD-40 will remove bluing, over time.


if kroil can cause leading im sure the vintage ww2 oil i use can do the same
Not necessarily. Kroil is a penetrant, and I bet your WWII oil is a lubricant.
Two different substances, with different properties ...

CM

[ss40_70]

cm i have heard exactly that about wd 40 and blueing . my thinking is any thing thats designed to beat rust and corosion cant be good for blueing , its very possible my thinking is way off base but i see no reason to take a chance , and theres no argueing kroil is a darn good penetrant .. as far as the ww2 gun oil goes i dont how to describe it other that foul smelling but very effective at keepin the woman folk out of the area when in use

[Kenny Wasserburger]

Well, I am betting your dry barrel is the main reason now. I have leaded up a good bit when I first went towipping in Creedmoor while I was still on the GG kick.:idea:

PP and a clean barrel are happy campers.

Glad I was of some help after all not near as nasty as is thought![smilie=l:

The Lunger
KW

[semtav]

.. as far as the ww2 gun oil goes i dont how to describe it other that foul smelling but very effective at keepin the woman folk out of the area when in use


Ha ha,
I clean and reload in our basement in the winter. and the wife and daughter kinda grumble when I clean my guns or shells, but one day I squirted some Kroil down the barrel. won't do that again in the house.

I kinda like the smell of it at work, but it don't go good with house smells and women.

[montana_charlie]

Ha ha,
I clean and reload in our basement in the winter. and the wife and daughter kinda grumble when I clean my guns or shells, but one day I squirted some Kroil down the barrel. won't do that again in the house.

I kinda like the smell of it at work, but it don't go good with house smells and women.
Put a small drop of Kroil on a cleaning patch, and leave it on your bench (in the house). After a couple of days, put two or three drops on the patch.
By the end of the week, your ladies probably won't object if you start soaking parts in an open bowl.

Just be sure to ALWAYS keep a Kroil patch laying around, somewhere.

CM