optimal boolit weight

[white eagle]

would you think there is a perfect weight for
say a Boolit in 44 cal for the 44 mag ??
my way of thinking is for me at least 300 gr and not more than 320 gr
just for hunting authority (smack clout)and long range work
everyone has their own way of thinking that is mine @ this time in my handgun
phase :bigsmyl2:
what say you [smilie=s:

[beagle]

I'm agreeing with you on that. From my experiences with the .44 Mag, it's about 265 grains. I have a H & G Keith that runs 278 grains and a H & G Keith that runs 317 grains and a RCBS that runs a little over 300 grains. All of these shoot well out of my SBHs but the trajectory is awful at 100 yards.

I've always though there was an optimum weight point and after that you're spinning your wheels.

Now, if you're in grizzly country or just plain bear country where encounters are likely, I can see the wisdom of a heavy bullet but under the conditions that 90% of us operate under, a 265 would do just fine for all my uses./beagle

[sqlbullet]

Really I think you are hinting at a optimum SD for a given velocity.

[white eagle]

no hint about anything other than what is stated
I care not for SD or velocity

[MtGun44]

IMO 250 Keith. The more I walk down the same paths as Elmer, the more I find that my
results match his most of the time.

Bill

[Dale53]

I can only speak with authority on what I have actually used. When "I" say large game, I am talking about Whitetail Deer (large, as in Southern Ohio bean and corn fed deer) Black Bear and Hogs. I don't hunt Elk, Grizzly Bears, Moose or Brown Bears. So, you must understand my perspective.

I have killed exactly one Bear (and that with a rifle in Canada) but have sat in on the autopsies of 40 or so. I have killed only a half dozen deer but have also been in on the autopsies of MANY more and taken field reports from several dozen.

Based on that experience plus information gathered over many years, I have to, in all candor, admit that a good 250 gr Keith design bullet will get the job done to 125 yards in the hands of a competent shooter (and there are not all that many competent shooters out there). Now, before you jump all over me for that statement, just remember the last trip to YOUR range and what the "handgunners" were doing around you. Huh? Now, you see where I am coming from....

I have shot full length, end to end, of a deer at advanced ranges with a 250 Keith traveling at 1200 fps. Sixshot has reported taking several deer with a Keith from a .44 Special at under 1000 fps. Sixshot has wide ranging real world hunting experience.

Even tho' Frank Siefer and I working together designed a VERY effective 310 gr bullet (Lee's C430-310-RF) and it shoots extremely well at 100 yards (our home range has a maximum of 100 yards). I was privileged to take the first head of big game with that bullet (at the fantastic range of 25 yards:rolleyes: on a ten point white tail buck) I think that the old Keith 429421 (or in my case the MiHec H&G #503 bullet) is about as good as it gets.

There is no denying that properly designed 300 gr bullets work and work well. However, dead is dead, and the 300 gr bullet puts more stress and seriously more recoil on both shooter and revolver for little extra (if any, return). The 250 gr Keith shoots a bit flatter (you can drive it considerably faster with the same pressure) and that helps at the far end of the allowable range.

Personally, I have always done my utmost to get as close as possible rather than to try to stretch the limits of range. One of my most favorite game shots was taken at 10 yards (and a NICE mature doe for the game bag resulted). I pride myself in how close I can get, not how far I can shoot to collect my game.

All of that said, if you are talking really LARGE game, then I'm shutting up - that is a whole 'nuther ball game...

I am a big advocate of practicing, as much as possible, from field positions to prepare myself for that "single, best shot" when called upon.

Dale53

[Doc Highwall]

It could be different for hand gun vs rifle.

[HammerMTB]

I think there is an optimal range for a given caliber and cartridge. I like my 44-310's for heavy work, but I much prefer the 265RD design for general use.
I like the 175TC in my .40 and 10MM, but for special purposes lighter or heavier can be better.
I'm working on a new .264LBC I just finished, and it looks like 120-123 is about right for it, but I hope to find a way to make 140's work, even if they are fed singly. That may be anathema to an AR fan, but if I am shooting 1000 yards, the semi feature could be passed by for a better COAL.
See where the optimal can get fuzzy?

[Bullshop]

In my view optimal would be the longest/heaviest boolit that would be stable with the twist used.
OOPS!!! I didnt read your question just the title.

[44man]

I feel the same as most of you, the .44 is just good for so much. I like the heavy boolits, the Lee 310, the 320 LBT and one from a mold I made that came out 330 gr.
I sight 1" high at 50 or dead on at 75. I put the red dot on a beer can, at the top of it and have no problems hitting them.
200 yards is where you see DROP! :bigsmyl2:
The RD 265 is a great target boolit and I shoot down to 240 gr, the gun handles them all. Anything you like will take game.
I feel the heavier ones seem to be more consistently accurate and easier to work with.
I don't like anything less then 240 gr.
The best thing you can do with a .44 is to have a pile of molds! :cbpour:

[Larry Gibson]

My experience with the .44 magnum started in '68 with my first revolver for that cartridge. Subsequently I have used numerous revolvers, Contenders and rifles with numerous weights of bullets. I have killed deer (black tail and mule deer), black bear and elk with the .44 magnum using cast and jacketed bullets. I have also carried a .44 (Colt Anaconda) in Alaska.

I prefer 200/210 gr bullets at 800 - 900 fps for plinking, small game and pleasure shooting but a 240/240 SWC at .44 Special velocity does just as well. A 250 Keith at 1100 - 1200 fps is an excellent general purpose load. As mentioned the Keith 250 is excellent in magnum loads from 1200 -1350 fps. For magnum loads of 1400 fps in longer barreled sixguns, Contender barrels and rifles I much prefer the GC'ed 429244 cast of softer alloy and manytimes HP'd for expansion and increased terminal effect. I tried the 300/310 gr bullets but other than shooting a heavier bullet at lower velocity with seemingly heavier recoil I found no advantage. If hunting with cast i most often am carrying a 6 - 7 1/2" revolver with Iron or a Burris Fast Fire sight. I know my limitations with each and keep shots within 100 yards. I do shoot longer ranges (did the cardboard outhouse at 400, 500 and 600 yards) and found the keith 429421 or the 429244 did just as well for me as any of the heavier bullets.

The above are my own preferences based on what has worked out for me. I've no need for the heavier bullets in .357, 41, .44 or .45 for use in handguns. Were I hunting something that required a bullet that big I would be using a rifle anyways. Some like the heavies and find them usefull but I've found most don't.

Larry Gibson

[BruceB]

My *opinion* on bullet weight for .44 revolvers was formed back in the '70s, when I was a mere stripling of thirty years' age.

A that time, I drove Lyman 429244 bullets (265 grains, in 1/3 lead-2/3 Linotype) COMPLETELY THROUGH bison and moose. When I say "completely through", I mean that the bullet kicked-up a substantial divot of dirt on the far side of each animal....clearly, still a dangerous projectile.

Having seen these actual results on large live animals, my considered thinking was: "Why on earth would I need MORE bullet weight in the .44?" With through-and-through performance on broadside shots, there was clearly enough penetration to reach the vitals from almost any practical angle. Soooo....I stayed with 429244 and didn't concern myself any further. I did buy a Lee 310-grain .44 mould much later, but it was mostly for my .404 rifle. The few 310s I fired in the revolvers didn't overly impress me and I stuck with 429244.

These days, I shoot the RCBS 44-250KT, because I sent the Lyman mould to my brother in Alberta.

[LAH]

IMHO I like 240-280 grains. This weight will kill anything in this country. They are shootable at 1200 fps. At these speeds they shoot plenty flat even at 200 yards. I speak only to the Keith Boolit but they will stay stable till they hits the ground from my S&W and Ruger BH as far as they will reach. Also, at this weight, they can be slowed to 800-900 fps without shooting "extremely" high at 25 yards.

[felix]

I am no hunter, but shooting through a 6 inch weak tree, like a willow, would be plenty of penetration I would think for any thin skinned animal. If you think the 44 has penetration, try a 41 at the same velocity with a nominal boolit. ... felix

[Rocky Raab]

Within the rather emphatic limitations of the original question, the answer is impossible.

If velocity can't be considered, then trajectory has to be ignored. If trajectory is ignored, hitting at anything much beyond muzzle contact is impossible. And if we aren't concerned with hitting, then bullet weight is utterly moot.

If all that is valid, then the optimum round may as well be a blank.

[BABore]

So Rocky, are you saying that a low velocity, high trajectory load cannot be made to hit at ranges much beyond the muzzle?:groner:

[Huntducks]

I and many others shot many a black bear with my Ruger 44 Carbine I used 200gr H&G # 241GC mold 50/50 mix of WW & lino I don't remember ever recovering a bullet.

IMHO 240grs is just right for a all around 44 boolit for medium game like deer B-bears and pigs but I feel speed kills.

[fredj338]

For me it's about a balance of weight vs vel vs recoil. IMO, bullets much heavier than 300gr are running too slow for longer range work w/o pushing them pretty hard. Not much stops even a 240gr lead solid @ 1400fps. I have settled on a 270gr cup point for hunting & even longer range shooting for accuracy. The 250gr+/- LSWC still makes a fine plinker/practice bullet.