So did they ban the Saiga 12 gauge?

[blasternank]

I heard they were going to or did but can't remember. Did they ban the importation of the Saiga 12 guage?

If they did I hope it gets overturned in the next administration.

Thanks.

[Storydude]

Not yet.

I think the "ban" was a bunch of distributors having connections in the ATF and making up for slow sales. ;)

[SCGunGuy]

Not yet.

I think the "ban" was a bunch of distributors having connections in the ATF and making up for slow sales. ;)

The ATF's comment period on their proposed rule to make shotguns with a bunch of listed features "non-sporting", and thus not importable, is open until May 1. The email address for comments is shotgunstudy@atf.gov

I wrote the below on another forum a while back:
BATFE has published a "Study on the Importability of Certain Shotguns." The purpose stated is "to establish criteria that the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives (ATF) will use to determine the importability of certain shotguns under the provisions of the Gun Control Act of 1968 (GCA)."

Near the end of the document, it states "Our determinations will in no way preclude the importation of true sporting shotguns. While it will certainly prevent the importation of certain shotguns, we believe that those shotguns containing the enumerated features cannot be fairly characterized as “sporting” shotguns under the statute. Therefore, it is the recommendation of the working group that shotguns with any of the characteristics or features listed above not be authorized for importation." (emphasis mine)

The characteristics identified are:
"(1) Folding, telescoping, or collapsible stocks;
(2) bayonet lugs;
(3) flash suppressors;
(4) magazines over 5 rounds, or a drum magazine;
(5) grenade-launcher mounts;
(6) integrated rail systems (other than on top of the receiver or barrel);
(7) light enhancing devices;
(8) excessive weight (greater than 10 pounds for 12 gauge or smaller);
(9) excessive bulk (greater than 3 inches in width and/or greater than 4 inches in depth);
(10) forward pistol grips or other protruding parts designed or used for gripping the shotgun with the shooter’s extended hand."

A feature specifically identified as "non-sporting" and thus non-importable if the study's recommendations are adopted is a SureFire light mounted under a shotgun barrel.

There is a comment period, with comments requested by May 1. The email address for comments is shotgunstudy@atf.gov. Please read the document before submitting comments.

The study can be downloaded from http://www.atf.gov/publications/firearms/012611-study-on-importality-of-certain-shotguns.pdf

[blasternank]

Thanks that is helpful. That is a lot of exclusions. Looks like they are shotgunning a bunch of items knowing they will have to not include some but will be able to say they let this and that slide but we have to put our foot down on this and that! That's the way those anti's work.

Can Congress do anything about it if they pass some or all of these?

Thanks.

[SCGunGuy]

Thanks that is helpful. That is a lot of exclusions. Looks like they are shotgunning a bunch of items knowing they will have to not include some but will be able to say they let this and that slide but we have to put our foot down on this and that! That's the way those anti's work.

Can Congress do anything about it if they pass some or all of these?

Thanks.

Congress could indeed pass a law restricting the ATF's ability to regulate shotguns, in response. I don't think that is very likely.

A better recourse is to bombard the ATF with comments against their action, and at the same time to put pressure on your Congressional reps to do something. Provisions could be put into spending bills, for example, that would prohibit the ATF from spending funds on such BS "studies" or in promulgating a rule as a result of such a study.

[blasternank]

Good comment! I will be calling my congressman tomorrow and letting him know what I think!

Thanks.

[DIRT Farmer]

I think they are ugly.but no need to outlaw them. The gun beside the bed has some of these ugly features, and I carried it on duty. I guess I need to make some calls.

[Johnch]

At the gun shop today
The owner found a guy a 410 Saiga

That supplyer told the owner that they are being imported by a new importer
I believe EAA has them again

The shop has 10 on back order and we understand that they should be avaible in not to long

Hope so
As one of them is going home with me

John

[songdog53]

The government are so busy trying to protect us from our selves yet they are more dangerous using ATF to run guns to Mexico that wind up getting innocent people killed. They can kick in your doors in middle of night and even if they are at wrong house they aren't held responsible for damage or possible deaths that occur. Now they worried about weight and with or shotguns. I guess as honest adult gun owners we have to have the bigger brained people in Washington to make sure we don't hurt ourselves carrying a gun that weights too much or shoots too many times that it might hurt our shoulders.

[Geraldo]

The study is clearly biased in favor of "sporting" shotguns, which they narrowly define in this paragraph:



In particular, the working group examined participation in and popularity of practical shooting
events as governed by formal rules, such as those of the United States Practical Shooting
Association (USPSA) and International Practical Shooting Confederation (IPSC), to determine
whether it was appropriate to consider these events a “sporting purpose” under § 925(d)(3).
While the number of members reported for USPSA is similar to the membership for other
shotgun shooting organizations,6 the working group ultimately determined that it was not
appropriate to use this shotgun study to determine whether practical shooting is “sporting” under
§ 925(d)(3). A change in ATF’s position on practical shooting has potential implications for rifle
and handgun classifications as well. Therefore, the working group believes that a more thorough
and complete assessment is necessary before ATF can consider practical shooting as a generally
recognized sporting purpose.

So even if your sport has as many members as another and similar levels of sponsorship, etc, it's not a sport if it might make them change their definition of "sporting purpose" to include something they don't want to. Nice.

That said, they refer to previous studies, which makes me think that a lot of this is just the usual cube-dweller make-work that most companies and agencies engage in on a daily basis. Not that there isn't an anti-gun undercurrent, but you don't want to kill the government paycheck and pension. If they banned everything, they'd be looking for real jobs next week and they know it. Again, not that there isn't a threat, but a lot of it is SSDD, which in their case stands for "same stuff, different decade".

[steg]

I own a saiga 12Ga, It isn't pretty, it isn't practical, but what it is, is a lot of fun, every one that has run a clip through it, fell in love with it, heck alot of them went out and bought one for themselves. I wouldn't recomend them as home defense weapons, unless your under attack by the Mongol Hordes, their just too long and clumsy. My go to home defense weapon is an old savage 115, barrels shortened to 18 1/2 inches

[frankenfab]

I have always wanted one!:redneck:

[Johnch]

One of the hunters from the club uses one for snow goose hunting
No max number of shells , so most guys run a extended Mag tube that holds 8 or 10

He went with the 20 round drum magazine

Not sure how practical that is
But he had fun and got to shoot a lot of snow geese

John

[Moonie]

One of the hunters from the club uses one for snow goose hunting
No max number of shells , so most guys run a extended Mag tube that holds 8 or 10

He went with the 20 round drum magazine

Not sure how practical that is
But he had fun and got to shoot a lot of snow geese

John

:holysheep

[bigdog454]

My question is, How did the ATFE gain the right to make laws (enforced regulations)??

[blasternank]

My question is, How did the ATFE gain the right to make laws (enforced regulations)??

I think they are "interpreting" a law. I told my dad about it today and he couldn't understand how something like this could happen without congressional approval. I said when Lib's are in charge they interpret things and run rogue for as long as they can until a huge stink is made and then they will go kicking and screaming.

[nelsonted1]

Centerfire systems list their 410 Saiga as in stock $449.00. Call them on the 12 guage.

http://www.centerfiresystems.com/SAI-410.aspx