.380ACP Spokane shooters? Help!

[Shuz]

Friends--I'm looking for local Spokane, Wa. .380ACP shooters to help me convince S&W that there is nothing wrong with my handloaded .380ACP ammo. Or perhaps there is?!

I recently sent my new S&W .380 Bodyguard back to the factory due to fail to fire and fail to eject issues. This happened with both factory ammo and my reloads. I rec'd my gun back in short order, but the problems persist. 1 out of nearly every 3 rounds FTF. I'm outta factory ammo, and don't wish to have to buy more just to convince Smith that the problem is with the gun. My thought is that if my rounds function perfectly in another firearm, I'm better prepared to call for another "FedEx call tag". Thanks--Shuz

[JIMinPHX]

That's probably not going to convince them. Just because your hand loads work in another gun, that does not mean that they exactly meet industry standards.

Also,S&W is not as customer friendly as they once were. I sent back a K-frame that I bought new because the groove diameter was something like 4 or 5 thou over spec. & it had a lump in it about half way down. I sent a note that said if it wasn't a warranty issue, to please quote me on the cost of replacing the barrel. After 3 or 4 phone calls & something like 2-months later, they sent it back to me with 3 dirty chambers & a note saying that it was safe to fire. They didn't bother to send me a quote as I had requested.

Years ago, it was not like that. They used to be very friendly, helpful & cooperative.

[shaune509]

Would offer to help but my 380 is a cheap Davis and not that great for reliablity or any hot loads, factory or reload. Got it as a hand down and only shoot <5 rounds through it.
shaune

[bhn22]

No manufacturer will ever accept a performance complaint with reloaded ammunition, regardless of who made it. You are wasting your time. If it works with whatever factory ammo they test if with, nothing will be done.

[Ole]

I think your quest may be in vain, but I think you'd be better suited buying a case headspace gauge and testing your ammo that way.

That said, good luck.

[warf73]

Since this is a new firearm (I'm guessing) read the owner’s manual. I'll bet you 100lbs of lead that its states to not use remanufactured ammo or reloaded ammo in it.
If you told S&W that you were having issues with both factor and your reloads (I'm guessing again) they wrote down your info with the guns serial numbers and sent it back.
Why would they do this you may be asking.... because you had openly admitted you voided the warranty of the firearm and now they have it on file and will not do anything about any problems from here on out.

But that’s me guessing.

[turbo1889]

One of the few gun manufacturers I am aware of that doesn't void their warranty if you use hand loads is Hi-Point. Unless they changed things since the 45-ACP pistol I have was made and the paper work that goes with it was printed the warranty is still good with reloads provided the reloads conform to SAAMI specs.

They do make a 380-ACP chambering if you’re interested although like all Hi-Point guns it is big, ugly, and heavy but will be accurate, reliable, and eat almost anything you feed it without complaint. It is not a concealed carry pocket pistol by any means though so if you are looking for that kind of a 380 then you need to just buy a regular pocket pistol and feed it only factory until you are sure it works right and everything is good and you don't need the warranty and then you can start feeding it your own reloads because once you do that especially if they are hand cast lead you can throw the warranty out the window.

[Shuz]

"Now for the rest of the story"--When I sent the gun back, my letter said that the gun failed to fire with two different brands of factory ammo, which is true. I did not mention anything about reloads. I also suggested that they should offer two magazines with the gun when new. When I got the gun back, they included an additional mag at no cost, but there was no explanatory letter saying what they did, or perhaps didn't do! I "assumed" that they worked the gun over. The gun fails to fire on the first primer hit one out of three times, but always fires on the second strike. While there is an indentation on the primer of a FTF round, it evidently was not struck hard enuf or with a long enuf pin to make it go bang.

Thanks for all the help and suggestions, I'l try and get another return tag tomorrow.

[Doby45]

Kel-Tec P3AT 380, nuff said. Mine goes bang, every single time.

[XWrench3]

No manufacturer will ever accept a performance complaint with reloaded ammunition, regardless of who made it. You are wasting your time. If it works with whatever factory ammo they test if with, nothing will be done.

UNFORTUNATLY, i have to agree with this statement. they are not interested if you are trying to save money, they are only interested in saving money themselves. if you have a freind with a video camera, a short vidieo of the problem occouring USING FACTORY LOADED AMMO (make CERTAIN to take a picture of you opening the box and loading the firearm with factory ammo) may help. the best way to send it would be on a USB memory stick, that they could just plug into a usb port. also, one thing you may want to do is VERY THOUROHLY AND COMPLETELY clean the gun and lightly lube it. i have had some break in issues clear up just by doing that. when they send the firearm out, it will be dirty from test firing, and 1/2 filled with assembly lube (and probably some metal shavings) which isn't the ideal lubricant. they are only worried about corrosion while the gun is in the box waiting to be sold. regular solvent and compressed air is the best way to clean the gun. you probably will not believe how much crud will come out with compressed air after the solvent has loosened it up. as for your reloads, the biggest problems i have had with 380's is bullet seating depth. one note, if using cast boolits, i have found anything EXCEPT winchester and R-P brass will give you trouble. the taper on the inside of the cases are different. i only use win & R-P brass for cast boolits. everything else gets either jacketed or plated bullets.

[fecmech]

Shuz--I realize the gun is not right and it sure sounds like a weak hammer/striker spring but switching to Federal SP primers may solve the problem if S&W does not come through for you. They seem to be the thinnest/softest cupped primers and what we used in PPC due to light DA strikes.

[turbo1889]

Kel-Tec P3AT 380, nuff said. Mine goes bang, every single time.

The Kel-Tec is the original as far as the polymer framed micro 380-ACP DAO pocket pistol market goes and therefore it does have the most bugs worked out of it. To my knowledge the current ones are at least a third generation design and I personally own one of the older second generation models with the old style slide and extractor set-up. It does its job very well for what it is designed to do but mine is getting pretty worn out since I've put more rounds through it then it was probably ever designed to take since it is one of those shoot a little carry a lot type of guns and although I can and have repaired the polymer frame with JB-Weld and fiberglass tape I have no means of repairing the wear on the aluminum rails that the steel slide runs in and they are worn to the point where it is only a matter of time before one side or the other fails and cracks and that will be the end of that guns lifetime.

For a replacement I am leaning towards the Taurus 738Ti but I am considering other entries to the market as well. I am not, however, considering anything made by S&W and have absolutely no intention of ever buying any semi-auto handgun made by S&W ever again. I have already learned my lesson with them. I will buy their older model revolvers and might consider one of their new model revolvers but their semi-auto handguns are junk. Their engineers that design them are stupid. Their customer service reps are as bad or worse then Bank of America debt collection unit outgoing call phone people. And I suspect the people who work on the guns in their service department are punks fresh out of high school with only a few basic shop classes under their belt and they have a skateboard rack in their parking lot for that section of their company.

[patsher]

This must be a "your mileage may very" thing, because I own a S&W Bodyguard and love it. Fired fine, right from the get go. I did return it to the dealer, though, because the safety and the slide hold-back levers were so stiff as to be nearly inoperable.

They sent it back to the factory, and in about 3 weeks I had it back, levers working much better. Still stiff, but usable. I have shot some cast through it (Lee 105 SWC), and it fires fine. I tried the 100 gr. Ranch Dog .380 bullet, but that wide meplat just didn't do well at all in the little Bodyguard. My Sig P230 .380 handles the 100 gr. Ranch Dog bullet just fine. Difference in feed ramps, I suppose.

Anyway, I've had VERY good luck with my Smith & Wesson Bodyguard, and think it's a fine little pistol for deep carry. I looked all the .380's over for a long time before I bought it, and to my hand, it is the hands-down winner with a quality feel which I found less of in the Kel-Tec, Ruger, and Taurus.

If it were mine, I would send it back to the factory very politely, and keep sending it back until it performs properly! Politely, of course, and with clear, concise cover letters. Is there a chance your dealer would send it back for you?

Just my two cents worth...

Pat

[fecmech]

Kel-Tec P3AT 380, nuff said. Mine goes bang, every single time.


Not to Hijack the thread but my new Kel tec .380 only went bang 23 times with factory ammo till the trigger no longer engaged the hammer. They tell me 4-6 weeks till it's repaired. At this point I'm totally underwhelmed with Kel Tecs. They all make dogs from time to time.

[Shuz]

Smith is sending another "call tag" today.

[troyboy]

Comparing a Kel tec and a Smith is silliness. I am sure it will get fixed just be patient

[JIMinPHX]

The Kel-Tec is the original as far as the polymer framed micro 380-ACP DAO pocket pistol market goes

Actually, I think that the Grendal P10 that came out in the late 80's probably holds that title. The P10 had a great design, but horrible manufacturing quality. I bought one when they first came out. 8 or 10 boxes of ammo later, I traded it in on a revolver.

[JIMinPHX]

Not to Hijack the thread but my new Kel tec .380 only went bang 23 times with factory ammo till the trigger no longer engaged the hammer. They tell me 4-6 weeks till it's repaired. At this point I'm totally underwhelmed with Kel Tecs. They all make dogs from time to time.

The early Kel Tecs had well documented problems with firing pin rebound springs. They didn't go bang every time, especially with certain brands of ammo. There were other common issues as well. The company was always real good about making good on repairs though. If you sent it back to them, they went through it & made it right. Everyone that I spoke to that had sent one back, said that it was good to go when it was returned to them.

For the price, they are quite a bargain in my opinion.

[fecmech]

The early Kel Tecs had well documented problems with firing pin rebound springs. They didn't go bang every time, especially with certain brands of ammo. There were other common issues as well. The company was always real good about making good on repairs though. If you sent it back to them, they went through it & made it right. Everyone that I spoke to that had sent one back, said that it was good to go when it was returned to them.

For the price, they are quite a bargain in my opinion.

I just bought this one new 2 weeks ago and they did send a call tag with no problem. Hopefully all will be well when it's returned. It's just irritating to buy a new gun, have it break in 10 minutes and then have to wait 4-6 weeks for a repair. If it were me and my company I would turn a job like that immediately. Even after I explained the situation to the person on the phone I still got the standard 4-6 week reply. IMO not the way to run a business.

[Doby45]

I have carried mine as a BUG as a LEO and never had an issue with it. Qualified with it everytime and would never hesitate to use it if needed. I carried mine tucked under my left breast strap of my vest and would forget I had it there. I started out carrying a G27 on a nice Bianchi ankle holster and after the first foot chase I had to nurse a bruised and almost bloody ankle. I gave the G27 to my dad as a gift and got the Kel-Tec and never looked back.

[Doby45]

Oh and speaking of the "Bodyguard", I just traded with my pastor for a Model 49 S&W Bodyguard.. Very cool little 38SPL..

[dverna]

A gun that will not go "bang" every time is a dangerous paper weight.

Don Verna

[turbo1889]

A gun that will not go "bang" every time is a dangerous paper weight.

Don Verna

I agree in principle, but it is also true that almost every semi-auto will have an occasional jamb-up. Some are a lot less occasional then others, but if you follow that philosophy to the ultimate extreme a revolver becomes your only choice. So far the most reliable semi-auto I own is my mil. surp. CZ-52 in 7.62x25 caliber. It has jammed only twice in the entire time I have owned it which is a better record then all the other semi-auto handguns I have owned including 1911s, Glocks, and full size Berettas.

That is why if you carry a semi-auto you need to train to clear jambs so that you can do it without skipping a beat in your sleep if you have too. An excellent way to do this is to make up very light plinker loads that are strong enough to reliably send the boolit out of the barrel and down range (usually at a speed slow enough so that you can see the boolit as a silver streak) but doesn't have enough punch to cycle the action so you have to manually work the slide to take your next shot. When you do so treat it like a full scale jamb including rotating your hand so the pistol handle is in the 10 to 11 o'clock position and the ejection slot is pointed down towards the ground and thus in a real jamb up situation the jammed shell or case will fall free of the action. I go so far as to even mix a few of those loads into my full power practice ammo for combat shooting drills to simulate a potential jamb without having to wait for a real jamb to actually occur. I also recommend learning to shoot straight with your other hand and learning to load a fresh magazine and cock the slide using only one hand (learn to do it with either, just one at a time). Clearing a jamb with only one hand is a real interesting trick and I admit I haven’t totally got that one figured out myself. The idea of all this of course being to prepare yourself for a situation where you may take a flesh wound in your right arm (left arm for you lefties) and your ability to survive the situation will hinge on your ability to continue shooting and reloading with off arm and doing it effectively. As an added plus it also makes shooting around corners much easier when the corner is on the “wrong” side.

[tackstrp]

i took me a while to figure out that my 380 kel tec did not like hard primers such as CCI russian, some other commerial brands. Have even fourn a box of Winchesters that I had to pull the bullet and replace with a federal small pistol. Remeington makes a 1 1/2 small pistol primer that works. Most Remingotn primers on store shelves are 5 1/2 and will not work. Sold my Kel tec but i maintain same primer rules.

[JIMinPHX]

I just bought this one new 2 weeks ago and they did send a call tag with no problem. Hopefully all will be well when it's returned. It's just irritating to buy a new gun, have it break in 10 minutes and then have to wait 4-6 weeks for a repair. ...

It's kind of like a Lee mold. You get what you pay for. It can end up being a productive tool, but it might need a little Lee-menting to get you there. Fortunately in both cases, the customer service on the back side is friendly & helpful.

[MGySgt]

For the price of that S&W it shouldn't need an Lee-menting. It should go bang each and every time with factory ammo for at least 7 to 8,000 rounds!

[fecmech]

Sarge--We were a little off track from the OP and talking about problems I had with a Kel Tec P3AT. at $239.

[Shuz]

FWIW: Yesterday I bought a new Ruger LCP. I took it to the range and it went bang on every shot with every type of ammo. I'm still waiting for the Smith "call tag".
The Ruger is a nice gun, but it is not in the same league as the Smith. The sights are not nearly as easy to use, there is no laser sight included, the slide does not stay open after the last shot(nor was it designed to), and there is not a double strike option should there ever be a FTF. At least for me, it also was not as comfortable to shoot. It was only $60.00 less expensive than the current Smith .380 Bodyguard, but I sure like it's reliability(so far)!

[MGySgt]

Because I wanted something a little bigger that a 380 - I bought a Ruger LCR (38+P). Made a mistake of letting the wife shoot it.

She wanted one only hers had to have the laser.

They are great shooting guns and I don't have a problem hitting the 2 in spinner at 20 yards with either one of them.

They are light and if you touch off a +P load it lets yiou know it is there!