Babbit metal

[scrapcan]

I just came upon about 25 ingots of babbit metal (approx 25-30 lbs). Unknown composition. Looks like all except 1 ingot are lead babbit. The other is much lighter and has a bronze hue, maybe nickled babbit?

Can I use these for casting bullets? Or should I put them away and save for the intended use? If I can use them how much do I mix?

thanks in advance.

[leftiye]

It will cast. I don't know exactly what its composition is, but early fords had the (babbit) bearings cast into the block. Try it, you (might) like it.

[versifier]

Run a search here for it. There was at least one thread in the past year that dealt with it.

[JeffinNZ]

Yes, but as already said if you know the composition you are further ahead.

Babbitt or ‘white metal’ will be one of two bases; either tin (Sn) based or lead (Pb) based. In addition to this the next most significant elements will be antimony (Sb) and copper (Cu). See http://www.frymetals.com/pdf_uploads/referenceguide.pdf for the relevant babbitt formulas of which there are many.

I have a batch of babbitt of unknown alloy however this is what I know for sure about it. For an ingot or the same displacement the babbitt weights approx 60% that of pure lead which by default makes it tin based as tin is just slight more than half the density of lead. Were the the babbitt lead based its density would be much greater EG: 90%. This information alone has allowed my to get a very good idea of the alloy mix of my babbitt and here is how I did this.

I used the periodic table of elements to establish the atomic weight s of lead, tin, antimony and copper. They are:

Lead Pb 207.20
Tin Sn 118.69
Antimony Sb 121.75
Copper Cu 63.55

By dividing the atomic weight of the elements I suspect to be in the alloy by the atomic weight of lead I get a figure that represents, by equal volume, what each elements density in relation to lead is.

IE: atomic weight of tin = 118.69, atomic weight of lead = 207.20.
Divide 118.69 by 207.20 and you get 0.573
This shows us that tin is 57.3% the density of lead by volume.

I came up with this formula to allow me to compare the density of babbitt to that of lead.

Y = (x * Sn’/Pb’) + (x * Sb’/Pb’) + (x * Cu’/Pb’) where:

Y = unknown alloy density in relation to pure lead
X = parts per 100 of each element in the alloy formula IE: tin, 90 parts.
Sn’ = atomic weight of tin = 118.69
Sb’ = atomis weight of antimony = 121.75
Cu’ = atomic weight of copper = 63.55
Pb’ = atomic weight of lead = 207.20

I took a theoretical alloy of 88 parts tin, 8 parts antimony and 4 parts copper and put them into this formula. It looks like this:

Y = (88 * 118.69/270.20) + (8 * 121.75/207.20) + (4 * 63.55/207.20)
Y = (88 * 0.573) + (8 * 0.588) + (4 * 0.307)
Y = 50.41 + 4.70 + 1.23
Y = 56.34

This gives us a sum of 56.34 or a relative density to lead of 56.34%. My ‘phantom alloy’ is approx 60% the density of lead so as such I can take it I have an alloy VERY close the 88/8/4 tin, antimony, copper.

[scrapcan]

Jeff,

The info you gave is what I was looking for. It is a ballpark way to get around the unkown alloy problem. I don't have the resources to have an analysis done for composition and would not go there with the small amoun that I obtained. If I had taken the offer to aquire the nearly 1000lbs that were available in large ingots (approx 100-200 lbs each) with lifting eyes theat would be a different story.

It is interesting to note that the grain structure in the lead babbit is very large while the grain structure in the nickle/tin (? not sure what this one is , may just get to be a paper weight) is a fine grain structure.

Anyway thanks and I will pull down the pdf you linked me to.

Jeremy

[arkypete]

I've got two diferent types of babbit. Being of a scientific mindset they are designated at red babbit and blue babbit.
Both make wonderful bullets just as they are, but light for caliber. Mixed with wheel weights the make equally beautiful bullets. I drop an Lyman ingot of babbit in a 20 pound pot.
The pure babbit bullets are hard as a 'woman of ill repute's' heart.
Jim

[JeffinNZ]

Actually I have put you slightly crook.

Don't use the atomic weights. Use the densities.

Pb 11.370

Sn 7.352

Sb 6.697

Cu 8.9

Grams per cubic centimeter.

When I recalculated my babbitt came out at 63%.

[scrapcan]

jeff,

thanks for the correction. I will re read and compare to old quantitative analysis course formulae. Been along time since I got to use my chemistry and quantitative analysis learnings. And that was something I really enjoyed while in graduate school.

Thanks again.

[mag_01]

I have found pure Babbitt to be to hard---becomes brittle and when sizing it is hard on dies---I find a mix of 20% or less works well to give a hard boolit that sizes well and performs well---Just my experience----(no theory)----Mag



Shut up and deal some of us are losing.

[castalott]

Eons ago, when I worked in the oilfields.... we hung our cable tools from wire rope...to attach the tools, we used babbit.

The wire rope was feed thru the eye & unwound. Soft rope ( twine to the rest of you) was wrapped around the cable so the babbit couldn't flow out that way. ( the tool is laying flat on the gound...the cable is flat too.) Add some oil for a reason i don't know. Babbit was poured into the side 'hole' and allowed to cool. Unbelieveable what that will hold if done correctly. You'll pull the line in 2 somewhere else...

[John Boy]

http://www.castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?t=8459&highlight=babbit

[ARKANSAS PACKRAT]

JeffinNZ;
If i am understandig our post, could i cast sample boolits of PB and my "mystery metal" and weigh them, if the "MM" is SN based babbit it should weigh 63% of PB??

[JeffinNZ]

YEAP! Absolutely spot on.

Just like two loaves of bread the same size, one white, the other wholemeal, will weigh differently - the white being lighter do to the lesser amount of fibre.

Think of babbitt as "diet" bullet metal. :-D

[ARKANSAS PACKRAT]

Thanks Jeff; I thought that was so, but sometimes the "fuzz between my ears" slows my undestanding important stuff!!:drinks:
nick