results large rifle vs large pistol primers - problem

[rp85]

hello;

decided to start new topic on large rifle primes vs. large pistol (& magnum pistol primers) when shooting cast bullets in a rifle with small amounts of pistol powder. first let me say thanks for those that took time to reply to original topic. did have a serious (?) problem with this test.

some have suggested using a large pistol primer and with a small amount of pistol powder produce more consistent cast bullet performance. the results today confirm in my mind the suggestion of better performance with large pistol primers,.......sorta.

the goal today was to determine any effect on cast bullet performance when using small amounts of pistol powder using a large pistol, magnum large pistol, and large rifle primers. test involved 308win 1916 spanish mauser rifle, a lee design 180 grain bullet, all primers were winchester, and all test cartridges has 18.5 grains of alliant 2400 powder. speed was based on eight (8) cartridges.

with the 180 grain bullet, large rifle primer, and 18.5 grains of 2400 resulted in a speed of 1760fps. difference between max. and min. speed was 40 fps.

with a magnum large pistol primer the difference between max and min speed was 17 fps and the average speed was 1800 fps. @ 2% increase in speed over cartridges using a large rifle primer. accuracy was an issue, operator error, will explain later.

with a regular large pistol primer the difference between max and min speed was 28 fps and average speed was 1813 fps. @2.1% increase in speed over a cartridge using a large rifle primer.

major problem. with the large pistol primer, the firing pin pierced the primer. blew out gas everywhere. reverted to my “stupid” mode and shot 8 large pistol primed cartridge, results were always the same, blew out gas everywhere. primer was not flat but primer was caved in to the extreme. did not have a hard bolt lift, but the firing pin had put a hole in the large pistol primer. this problem has not ever happen with either large rifle primers or large pistol magnum primers. got any ideas on what happen with the large pistol primers.

accuracy with all loads not good. the front barrel band was not tight so before starting shooting, took a screw drive and really tighten the front barrel band screw. accuracy went into the ditch. think tightening this screw had an adverse effect on accuracy. will find out next week.

thanks for any input

rp

[HangFireW8]

Mausers are not gentle in the firing pin department. They are made for reliability with hard military primers. You may have had better luck with a Remington 700 or something else more modern.

Your rifle may have more than the normal amount of firing pin extension. It should only be roughly .060". You can check it with the bolt out of the rifle.

As you may suspect, Magnum Large Pistol primers have harder or thicker cups than standard pistol primers.

[jhalcott]

Check the firing pin for a point also! Those things DO wear out. That could be the cause of pierced primers.

[454PB]

Bear in mind that pistol primers use thinner cups, and are shorter than rifle primers. The pistol primers are probably backing out of the primer pocket, then slamming home as full pressure builds.

[HARRYMPOPE]

With Mosin Nagants 7.64R and P-17 Enfields in 30-06 i use Win and Fed LP standard primers and not lost one to piercing in 25,000 rounds with 16 of 2400 or 14 of TrailBoss and 155-200g bullets.My Sd's are low teens and sometimes single digit.Accuracy is MOA at times in scoped rifles.i use LP primers in my 8x57 turk with 14 of Trailboss with 245 g bullet and have had nice results(1.5"-2.5" at 100 and issue sights) and not a primer pierced yet in the 500 rounds fired with the load.
My loads are lower pressure than your 308 loads.When i shoot 308's at 1700-2000 fps i use rifle primers.

HMP

[Rocky Raab]

I answered the identical post you made on another website.

[Jlucas45]

hello;

decided to start new topic on large rifle primes vs. large pistol (& magnum pistol primers) when shooting cast bullets in a rifle with small amounts of pistol powder. first let me say thanks for those that took time to reply to original topic. did have a serious (?) problem with this test.

some have suggested using a large pistol primer and with a small amount of pistol powder produce more consistent cast bullet performance. the results today confirm in my mind the suggestion of better performance with large pistol primers,.......sorta.

the goal today was to determine any effect on cast bullet performance when using small amounts of pistol powder using a large pistol, magnum large pistol, and large rifle primers. test involved 308win 1916 spanish mauser rifle, a lee design 180 grain bullet, all primers were winchester, and all test cartridges has 18.5 grains of alliant 2400 powder. speed was based on eight (8) cartridges.

with the 180 grain bullet, large rifle primer, and 18.5 grains of 2400 resulted in a speed of 1760fps. difference between max. and min. speed was 40 fps.

with a magnum large pistol primer the difference between max and min speed was 17 fps and the average speed was 1800 fps. @ 2% increase in speed over cartridges using a large rifle primer. accuracy was an issue, operator error, will explain later.

with a regular large pistol primer the difference between max and min speed was 28 fps and average speed was 1813 fps. @2.1% increase in speed over a cartridge using a large rifle primer.

major problem. with the large pistol primer, the firing pin pierced the primer. blew out gas everywhere. reverted to my “stupid” mode and shot 8 large pistol primed cartridge, results were always the same, blew out gas everywhere. primer was not flat but primer was caved in to the extreme. did not have a hard bolt lift, but the firing pin had put a hole in the large pistol primer. this problem has not ever happen with either large rifle primers or large pistol magnum primers. got any ideas on what happen with the large pistol primers.

accuracy with all loads not good. the front barrel band was not tight so before starting shooting, took a screw drive and really tighten the front barrel band screw. accuracy went into the ditch. think tightening this screw had an adverse effect on accuracy. will find out next week.

thanks for any input

rp

I know that this is an old post, but just my belated experiences...I have used both the Lee and Lyman bullet moldin the 311284 200 grain. I found out that the nose on the Lee mold tends to be too small to engage the lands, and allows the nose to wobble out of the barrel causing poor accuracy. The Lyman 311284 actually engages the rifling on the forward part of the nose, and accuracy can be extremely good. If you take one of the bullets, it should not easily "insert" into the muzzle of your rifle at the ogive, but should start engraving with some gentle persuasion .

[robg]

Stick to rifle for rifle cartridges ,pistol for pistol.regardless of the type of gun used.except for some specialist cartridges.

[Scharfschuetze]

Man, this is an old thread. It's probably worth re-surfacing again.

I've had good ballistic uniformity and good accuracy using large pistol primers in my cast bullet loads; but, and this is a BIG but, I've also experienced pierced primers doing so. Some of my rifles are more prone to it than others, particularly my Pre-64 Model 94.

As it can happen at any time with mild or mid pressure loads using cast, I've just dropped the procedure and I stick to rifle primers in rifles. Gas blowing around in the action just is't a good thing and it can sometimes burn a divot into your bolt face.

[tomme boy]

I use them all the time in my Mosin and have never "yet" had a primer pierce. Maybe because the firing pin is sooo large on the Mosin????

[reddog81]

not how we treat others here.

[bstone5]

I use pistol primers in 444 Marlin cases when making brass shot gun shells for 410 shot shells.
Shoot in a H&R Handy Rifle and a S&W Governor pistol. Have shot a lot of the brass 410 shells made from 444 Marlin brass with no problems. Load #7 to #4 buck shoot without any problems with the primers.

[Shiloh]

I was careless and loaded up about 30 rounds of 8mm mauser with Win LP primers. a few pierced. Accuracy was the same, very good.

Shiloh

[PositiveCaster]

Impressive resurrection of a 5.5 year old thread with a completely irrelevant post. Congrats...
The guy is new (2 posts as of today) so he may not know how to start a thread. But he should not have resurrected this old thread with an off-topic post. Typical newbie mistake, searched, found an ancient thread he was interested in, then posted somethin in it. In the future he will get better responses by starting his own thread.


.

[runfiverun]

it's a bit intimidating to jump onto a board with 45-K members and like 5 billion years of experience and try to make a helpful post.

anybody that thinks their input might in some way help is welcome to post here.
the board exists to exchange information, and to help each other,
not to berate others.

[blackthorn]

[QUOTE=PositiveCaster;3889617]The guy is new (2 posts as of today) so he may not know how to start a thread. But he should not have resurrected this old thread with an off-topic post. Typical newbie mistake, searched, found an ancient thread he was interested in, then posted somethin in it. In the future he will get better responses by starting his own thread.

Maybe we are revisiting an old post BUT he is reading (obviously), something we often tell newbies they should do! Good for him!

[Scharfschuetze]

Maybe we are revisiting an old post BUT he is reading (obviously), something we often tell newbies they should do! Good for him!

That is absolutely correct. How many times have we read a member state that: "you should have searched the threads before starting a new thread," or words to that effect.